Weak suck

Nikki wrote:

Good to know! Thanks for replying Leslie. I was thinking about you and
Lorelei but I couldn't remember the details. I'm terrible about not paying
very close attention unless something actually applies to me. That is so
self-centered, lol.

Oh, I'm the same way. My mind is so full that there isn't room to keep
track of everything!

Since others have mentioned the SNS, I'll chime in and say I HATED
that. IF I were you I'd try a syringe before I'd try that. I could
never get it taped right and it was a PIA to clean, and she didn't like
the tubing either. Since it's nipple confusion that's the worry, and
you are getting plenty of stimulation from Brock, I'd skip that.

Leslie

Nikki wrote:
Ben has such a weak suck I worry. I have a really hard time getting him to
make the big fishy lips and then doing any nutritive sucking. He will latch
and suck, just not those long nutritive sucks and I almost always have to
adjust his latch/lips. His sucking is short and choppy and do not feel
strong.

He did not have any bottles the first week but then I started supplementing
(EBM) with three top ups a day of 1/2oz and now I'm supplementing with 4
tops offs a day of one ounce. He is slowly gaining now but was still 5oz
short of his birth weight at 2 weeks. He slept a lot and was quite weak in
general but that seems to be improving since I started with the 4oz/day.

I suppose it could be the bottles causing the less then perfect latch and
suck but it was the same the first week so I'm not sure. I'm hoping that
the supplements will get him back to his birth weight and that once he is
stronger his suck will be stronger too. Milk supply was an issue the first
week or so but I don't think it is any longer.

Any advice is appreciated. I was wondering specifically if there was

1) Any way to improve his latch and suck? I have not seen a lactation
consultant but I could ask for a referral. The doctor didn't think I needed
it but????

2) He is supplemented 4 times a day with one ounce directly after a
breastfeed. Is this the best way to supplement?

3) I had been waking him ever two hours to nurse. This week I was going to
try letting him go 3 hours. It is really hard to wake him up after 2 hours
and those nursing sessions are so pitiful that I think he may get more milk
by the end of the day by waiting the three hours so he nurses stronger and
longer. Any thoughts? I don't mind nursing him every two hours if that is
better. He does wake on his own at times too.

It is perhaps a completely different issue, but every time I've had to
wake a baby to nurse they have sucked less successfully than if they'd
woken up themselves. First baby I was told to wake every 3 hours to
nurse, he was having issue with latching so waking him actually made it
worse because he was too tired to suck and then too hungry to sleep
properly which became a vicious cycle. My premmie baby was much the
same, when I woke her to nurse she would only feed for about half as
long as if I'd let her wake naturally - and mostly that was within
about half an hour of the 3 hr point that they wanted me to wake her.
If it is an option and it's not going to be too draining on you I'd let
Ben wake by himself for a day or two and see if that improves his suck.
Even if he doesn't wake as frequently as you'd like the fact that he'd
be taking more in at each nursing session is better for him in the long
run, not to mention that babies really do grow in their sleep.

Cheryl
Mum to Shrimp (11 Mar 99), Thud (4 Oct 00), Mischief (30 Jul 02) and
Chickie (16 Feb 05)

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
.. .
See a special needs lactation consultant.

Hmm, I'm not even sure we have one!

snip You sure had a rough go of it :-( I really admire you for all
you've done for Alli.

If he's willing to nurse non-nutratively, that's
definitely something to keep up, because it increases the chance that
he'll
pick up on nutrative nursing when his suck improves (if it's a suck, as
opposed to a latch issue).

Yes he nurses and he gets a fair amount as he only gets 4 ounces a day of
supplement. I think it is mostly suck that needs to improve but it would be
easier for him with a better latch. He seems to be getting stronger every
day. I can harass him a little more about his latch now :-) That helps.


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

wrote in message

It is perhaps a completely different issue, but every time I've had to
wake a baby to nurse they have sucked less successfully than if they'd
woken up themselves.

I think this might be going on with Ben too. I let him go three hours at a
time yesterday (versus the two I was originally told to go) and he did seem
to nurse better. If his weight is OK on Thursday I'm not going to wake him
at all at night. They both have their days/nights mixed up a bit. I slept
with the othe two and so they straightened around right away but I'm trying
to keep these two in the crib so I get better sleep :-) He was up the first
half of the night but slept well the second half. He's still asleep!

If it is an option and it's not going to be too draining on you I'd let
Ben wake by himself for a day or two and see if that improves his suck.

Nah, that would be OK :-) I may try it.

Even if he doesn't wake as frequently as you'd like the fact that he'd
be taking more in at each nursing session is better for him in the long
run, not to mention that babies really do grow in their sleep.

Plus I think it is a bit of work out to nurse so he'd be conserving some
calories by not wasting them on pitiful nursing sessions....at least that is
what I've heard about smaller babies. Might not apply to those over 7lbs.

Thanks from the reply and nice to 'see' you around!


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

My baby was also said to be a weak suck. I did see a lactation
specialist when he was 1 week old and they put me on SNS to supplement
and I took Domperidone 4 tablets 4 times a day and Milk Thistle and
Fenugreek both 1 tablet, 3 times a day to increase my milk supply. I
went from training bra size to double D's. I'm not kidding. I had so
much milk I could feed a handfull of kids! LOL. I'm not one of those
moms that produce milk so much that it shoots out. He has to work to
get the good stuff. I have been using the SNS for almost 6 months now.
I use it almost all feeds except sometimes when we go out (too much to
explain to others..although I am good at hiding it now). I thought at
first I could not do it...too much to orchestrate while he eats. BUT it
got a heck of a lot easier and now I'm a pro at putting it all
together. You just insert the tube into his mouth while he sucks and he
thinks he's getting a ton of milk flow. That way he eats well. This way
I didn't have to supplement after as he was supplementing at the same
time as he was nursing. Remember the more the baby suckles, the better
they get, the more efficient they become at nursing and the more milk
you produce. BELIEVE me! I had a breast tumor at 17 and had to get a
reduction on both breasts and was told I would never be able to breast
feed. THIS worked even with my baby who happned to be a "Weak" eater.

In terms of waking him to eat....I see Dr Jack Newman (his website is
www.drjacknewman.com) and he told me that the more a baby eats the more
milk you get. I used to feed mine every HOUR! Basically on demand. He
said your milk supply does not need 2 hours to replenish. The baby
makes you replenish the more he/she suckles. If you are worried and
need to supplement use the SNS. It makes your milk come it more since
he/she is always at the breast increasing your supply.

If you want more info on the SNS let me know. Honestly its better than
people think. By the way I started my baby on a bottle after 1 month
for the 6:00am feedings when I was too exhausted to nurse. He takes the
breast and bottle fine. No confusion. But I went through tons of
nipples and bottles before I found one that felt like a real
nipple...or at least was close to one.

I forgot to mention that I fed every hour when he was 1 month. Then 2
hours after he turned 2 months. I fed and still do on demand. BUT if
ever he slept through his feedings or slept early before his last
feeding then I would feed him while he slept. He still nursed...it just
took him a little more time than when he was awake. A few month back
however when he was 1-3.5 months, he was gaining weight slowly. It took
him 5 weeks to get to his birth weight. I was at DR. almost every day
getting him weighed. Then I would wake him to feed. I did exactly what
the lactation expert said, skin to skin. I tried feeding from both
breasts, one side, whatever he took. The lacatation specialist really
helped with the latch. I went to see them several times to perfect it
after I was practicing incorrectly for three weeks after he was born.
The hospital showed me the wrong way. I paid dearly for it with cracked
and bleeding nipples. Latch is very important.

"Sandy" wrote in message
oups.com...
My baby was also said to be a weak suck. I did see a lactation
specialist when he was 1 week old and they put me on SNS to supplement

Hmm. This seems like such a huge PITA to me...although I've never tried it,
or even seen one IRL :-)

He has to work to
get the good stuff. I have been using the SNS for almost 6 months now.

Wow...that is great. Sounds like dedication! I have enough of a time
unhooking the bra snaps, lol. I hope or supplementing days are over in a
few weeks.

I don't think there is anything wrong with my supply. It was low the first
week but is fine now as far as I can tell. There is always milk there when
he nurses.

This way
I didn't have to supplement after as he was supplementing at the same
time as he was nursing. Remember the more the baby suckles, the better
they get, the more efficient they become at nursing and the more milk
you produce.

That all makes sense.

In terms of waking him to eat....I see Dr Jack Newman (his website is
www.drjacknewman.com) and he told me that the more a baby eats the more
milk you get.

I believe that but the amount of sucking he does at the end of 6 hours is
probalby more with just two feeds (every three hours) versus 3 feeds (every
two hours) because he nurses so much better.

I used to feed mine every HOUR! Basically on demand.

Sometimes they do. If he wants to nurse more often he certainly gets to!!!

If you want more info on the SNS let me know. Honestly its better than
people think.

I'll take you up on that if we end up not getting anywhere with the current
method. It probably would be a last resort though just because of the
logistics of pumping, feeding two babies, and having two older kids as well.

By the way I started my baby on a bottle after 1 month
for the 6:00am feedings when I was too exhausted to nurse. He takes the
breast and bottle fine. No confusion. But I went through tons of
nipples and bottles before I found one that felt like a real
nipple...or at least was close to one.

When we start or practice bottles I hope to do them in the very late evening
to get a little better shut eye. They took the first bottle nipple I tried
with them but that is probably because they were so young. I had an
impressive collection for my first though :-)



--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

"Sandy" wrote in message
oups.com...

ever he slept through his feedings or slept early before his last
feeding then I would feed him while he slept.

This little guy won't nurse in his sleep. He won't latch on .

The hospital showed me the wrong way. I paid dearly for it with cracked
and bleeding nipples. Latch is very important.

Yep!!


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

"Nikki" wrote in message
...
Ben has such a weak suck I worry. I have a really hard time getting him
to make the big fishy lips and then doing any nutritive sucking.

He gained 4 ounces from Friday to Monday and so the supplements are working.
He is much stronger and his suck has improved. I'm not sure his latch is
much of a problem? I'll continue for a week with the 4 ounces and then
I'll move down to 2 ounces for a week and then quit. I don't need another
weight check unless I want the reassurance.

By then we'll need to start up with the practice bottles in preparation for
my return to work. Bummer...it is always nice to have those first few weeks
with no pumping and bottles to fiddle with. I'm so happy that he is gaining
and getting strong that I can't be disappointed though! In addition the
practice bottles can be in place of a feed, rather then instead of, so I may
be able to get some time to go out with the bigger boys for some activities
that they miss but is hard for me to do with two babies.

Thanks for all the advice!


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

Nikki wrote:
"Nikki" wrote in message
...

Ben has such a weak suck I worry. I have a really hard time getting him
to make the big fishy lips and then doing any nutritive sucking.


He gained 4 ounces from Friday to Monday and so the supplements are working.
He is much stronger and his suck has improved. I'm not sure his latch is
much of a problem? I'll continue for a week with the 4 ounces and then
I'll move down to 2 ounces for a week and then quit. I don't need another
weight check unless I want the reassurance.


Yeah! Well done.

By then we'll need to start up with the practice bottles in preparation for
my return to work. Bummer...it is always nice to have those first few weeks
with no pumping and bottles to fiddle with. I'm so happy that he is gaining
and getting strong that I can't be disappointed though! In addition the
practice bottles can be in place of a feed, rather then instead of, so I may
be able to get some time to go out with the bigger boys for some activities
that they miss but is hard for me to do with two babies.

Sounds like things are going well!

Mary W.