How Dangerous is Childhood

enigma wrote:
(This is why, in all likelihood, Dr.
Rosemond doesn't approve of DL's mantra "I am my kids'
mom," since HIS mantra - for both parents - is: "Put your
marriage first.")

heh. we're not married. i'm *sure* he has something wonderful
to say about that...

Well, yes, he did. Namely, he said that a single parent can be just as
good a parent as a married couple (assuming that's what you meant -
otherwise, I don't remember what he said). He said single parents need
to find adult lives of their own so the kids won't think themselves to
be the center of the parents' universe.


Rosemond is an idiot. no need to spread lies about him. just
ignore him.

Why do you consider him an idiot? Examples, please? My only immediate
quarrel with him is that he's suggested strongly, more than once, that
anyone who is not a practising Christian - or at least a Jew - is not a
truly responsible parent. Plus, as I said, the fact that he still
hasn't tackled the issue of child politeness towards familiar adults
vs. child safety. (Oh, and in a very recent column, he said that
parents who would lay their lives down for their children already love
their kids enough. I.e., he implied - maybe by accident - that there's
no need to hug or kiss your kids if it's not your style. Funny, seems
to me that's what leads so many children to become teenage parents - or
AIDS-infected.)

Other than that, I don't see his advice as radical. Most of it is stuff
that, before 1970 or so, used to be pretty much agreed on even between
people of different political backgrounds, because they understood that
children were not adults, couldn't understand the adult point of view,
and therefore families could not be democracies in general. (I know one
woman born in the 1940s who was and is as left-wing as they come, but
she also grew up near Andover, Mass. and therefore could never stand to
see anyone wearing white shoes after Labor Day - or to hear any child
calling a parent by a first name. Even so, she didn't expect consistent
military-style obedience from her children, because they were only
children. I suspect he'd agree.)

Finally, despite having a book titled: "Because I Said So!" Rosemond
has said often: "I am not the anti-Spock." (He feels Spock's been
misinterpreted a lot.)



Also, check out this list of School Year Resolutions for
parents:

Excerpt: Resolution #4 - "I will not take my child's side
in a dispute with the teacher, even if I think the
teacher's being slightly unfair. If I think she's being
very unfair, I'll ask someone else's opinion before talking
with her."

what if the teacher is a total loon? what if she singles out
*your* child as the class scapegoat? what if she stands by
your child's desk, & taps on it while telling the entire class
that people from X state (that your child was born in & moved
from recently) are so very stupid? do you take your child's
side or tell him that he must obey & respect that teacher?
lee


Sorry if that's what happened to you or your child. From the above, it
seems to me Rosemond would only recommend making sure (both via the
child and another adult who knows the teacher) your child wasn't
exaggerating or leaving something out before confronting the teacher in
that case.


Lenona.

wrote in message
ps.com...

enigma wrote:
(This is why, in all likelihood, Dr.
Rosemond doesn't approve of DL's mantra "I am my kids'
mom," since HIS mantra - for both parents - is: "Put your
marriage first.")

heh. we're not married. i'm *sure* he has something wonderful
to say about that...

Well, yes, he did. Namely, he said that a single parent can be just as
good a parent as a married couple (assuming that's what you meant -
otherwise, I don't remember what he said). He said single parents need
to find adult lives of their own so the kids won't think themselves to
be the center of the parents' universe.


Rosemond is an idiot. no need to spread lies about him. just
ignore him.

Why do you consider him an idiot? Examples, please? My only immediate
quarrel with him is that he's suggested strongly, more than once, that
anyone who is not a practising Christian - or at least a Jew -

UM ... "at least a Jew" ??? Being Jewish is not less than being
christian.


is not a
truly responsible parent.

ok, nuff said, he is an idiot ... do you really need other idiots to
compaire him to? Think Pat Robertson.


Plus, as I said, the fact that he still
hasn't tackled the issue of child politeness towards familiar adults
vs. child safety. (Oh, and in a very recent column, he said that
parents who would lay their lives down for their children already love
their kids enough. I.e., he implied - maybe by accident - that there's
no need to hug or kiss your kids if it's not your style. Funny, seems
to me that's what leads so many children to become teenage parents - or
AIDS-infected.)

Other than that, I don't see his advice as radical. Most of it is stuff
that, before 1970 or so, used to be pretty much agreed on even between
people of different political backgrounds, because they understood that
children were not adults, couldn't understand the adult point of view,
and therefore families could not be democracies in general. (I know one
woman born in the 1940s who was and is as left-wing as they come, but
she also grew up near Andover, Mass. and therefore could never stand to
see anyone wearing white shoes after Labor Day - or to hear any child
calling a parent by a first name. Even so, she didn't expect consistent
military-style obedience from her children, because they were only
children. I suspect he'd agree.)

Finally, despite having a book titled: "Because I Said So!" Rosemond
has said often: "I am not the anti-Spock." (He feels Spock's been
misinterpreted a lot.)



Also, check out this list of School Year Resolutions for
parents:

Excerpt: Resolution #4 - "I will not take my child's side
in a dispute with the teacher, even if I think the
teacher's being slightly unfair. If I think she's being
very unfair, I'll ask someone else's opinion before talking
with her."

what if the teacher is a total loon? what if she singles out
*your* child as the class scapegoat? what if she stands by
your child's desk, & taps on it while telling the entire class
that people from X state (that your child was born in & moved
from recently) are so very stupid? do you take your child's
side or tell him that he must obey & respect that teacher?
lee


Sorry if that's what happened to you or your child. From the above, it
seems to me Rosemond would only recommend making sure (both via the
child and another adult who knows the teacher) your child wasn't
exaggerating or leaving something out before confronting the teacher in
that case.


Lenona.

wrote:
Excerpt: Resolution #4 - "I will not take my child's side in a dispute
with the teacher, even if I think the teacher's being slightly unfair.
If I think she's being very unfair, I'll ask someone else's opinion
before talking with her."

In other words, I will distrust my own judgement and that of my child.

Um, no thanks.

-L.

wrote:
ignore him.

Why do you consider him an idiot? Examples, please? My only immediate
quarrel with him is that he's suggested strongly, more than once, that
anyone who is not a practising Christian - or at least a Jew - is not a
truly responsible parent.

"...at least a Jew"?

Are these gems your words or his?

-L.

Knit Chic wrote:
"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
ps.com...

Knit Chic wrote:
"toto" wrote in message
...
http://health.theledger.com/article/...11/FAMILY/1478


IMO the author of this article has very poor logic skills. The
information
that is used to back up her issue has nothing to do with the issue that
has
been presented.
Comparing apples to oranges ...

Oh? Give examples please? Hard to have a good conversation without
knowing your reasons.

Cathy Weeks

I haven't chosen a "side" IMO the article has no real value as it is
illogical.
If your asking me if I think some parents are over the top w/ how they act
w/ their children and dangers, I would have to say yes. Do I think that
some parents are not attentive enough w/ their children and dangers, again,
I would have to say yes.
If you asked do I think that I handle the issue w/ my family in a healthy
and positive way, again I would have to say yes ... and I may say about
you even though that you may chose to handle it a completely different way
... it doesn't mean that I think your dealing with it incorrectly or "wrong"
(I have no idea how you deal w/ it, it's a hypothetical you)
I also don't think that making a child aware of dangers and making a child
fearful (as an adult or a child) go hand in hand.
I believe that making a child aware of dangers is the easy part ... giving
them the tools they need to deal with those dangers ... that's not so easy.
And it's often overlooked.

I don't mean to be dense here, but what things in the article are
illogical? I don't understand how they are comparing apples to
oranges. I do have a "side" - I tend to think parents don't have a
good perspective on risk taking, but that does NOT mean I cannot
overlook a problem with the article, nor does it mean I spot every
logic error. In fact, *because* I agree with the writer of the article,
I am *less* likely to spot logic errors.

grin that's where you come in handy! :-)

Cathy Weeks

L. wrote:
wrote:
ignore him.

Why do you consider him an idiot? Examples, please? My only immediate
quarrel with him is that he's suggested strongly, more than once, that
anyone who is not a practising Christian - or at least a Jew - is not a
truly responsible parent.

"...at least a Jew"?

Are these gems your words or his?

-L.


HIS sentiments, definitely. Though, IIRC, he said it less distinctly.
Since he relatively seldom talks about the need for Judeo-Christian
parenting, especially when the parent who's writing the question is
talking about something else, I'm willing to put up with a little
creepy chaff for the sake of a lot of wheat.

Lenona.

L. wrote:

wrote:

Excerpt: Resolution #4 - "I will not take my child's side in a dispute
with the teacher, even if I think the teacher's being slightly unfair.
If I think she's being very unfair, I'll ask someone else's opinion
before talking with her."

In other words, I will distrust my own judgement and that of my child.

Um, no thanks.


I'm sure you're very reasonable. Trouble is, teachers have plenty of
legitimate complaints about overbearing parents who overreact to
everything. In the TIME cover story "What Teachers Hate About Parents"
from Feb. 2005(?), one teacher gently told a middle-schooler that she
had to work on her reading skills at home, not just in school. Result?
The student went crying to her mother and the latter went raging to the
teacher, saying her daughter had been "traumatized."



Rosemond's column from January 11, 2001:

A teacher somewhere in the United States sent me a message one of her
colleagues proposed for the new phone system being installed in their
high school. She wrote, "It's a joke, of course, but it speaks volumes
about the problems plaguing education today." Based on my experience
and numerous conversations with educators around the country, I've
added a few options of my own. If the shoe fits, wear it!

"Hello! You have reached the automated answering service of (name of
school). To properly connect your call, please listen to all the
following options before making a selection:

To lie about why your child is absent, press 1.

To tell us that your child was too tired to come to school today
because of his soccer game last night, press 2.

To make lame excuses for why your child did not do his or her work,
press 3.

To complain that a teacher is not treating your child fairly, press 4.

To complain that a teacher is having a personality conflict with your
child, press 5.

To complain that you did not understand your child's homework
assignment, press 6.

To complain that a teacher is not teaching to your child's learning
style, press 7.

To demand that a grade be changed, for the better of course, press 8.

To inform us that your child has never told a lie or done anything
wrong in his or her life, press 9.

To leave a threatening message for a teacher, press 10.

To ask why you have not received messages that we sent home with your
child, press 11.

To threaten us with a lawsuit, press 12.

To demand that your child be admitted to the gifted and talented
program, press 13.

To request that we take over raising your child, press 14.

If you want to reach out and slap someone on staff, press 15.

To request another teacher for your child, press 16.

To demand that your child be reinstated on the football team despite
bad grades and/or atrocious behavior because being kicked off the team
ruins his chances for a football scholarship, press 17.

To complain that the bus driver has it in for your child, press 18.

To complain that school lunches are either too expensive or that your
child doesn't like them, press 19.

To tell us that your child simply must be given a higher grade than he
or she earned so that he or she can get into the college of his or her
choice, press 20.

If you want to ask us to hold your child completely accountable for his
or her work and behavior, hang up and have a nice day!"

In article . com,
says...


L. wrote:

wrote:

Excerpt: Resolution #4 - "I will not take my child's side in a dispute
with the teacher, even if I think the teacher's being slightly unfair.
If I think she's being very unfair, I'll ask someone else's opinion
before talking with her."

In other words, I will distrust my own judgement and that of my child.

Um, no thanks.


I'm sure you're very reasonable.

Hmm. Heh

Trouble is, teachers have plenty of
legitimate complaints about overbearing parents who overreact to
everything. In the TIME cover story "What Teachers Hate About Parents"
from Feb. 2005(?), one teacher gently told a middle-schooler that she
had to work on her reading skills at home, not just in school. Result?
The student went crying to her mother and the latter went raging to the
teacher, saying her daughter had been "traumatized."

::snip::

Sure sure - there are unreasonable people in any group.

But, to state as some kind of blanket resolution that, each and every time, each
and every parent, is supposed to ask someone else (which leads me to one rather
obvious question - WHOM??) about a judgement isn't appropriate or constructive.
It doesn't even give any real guideline. It doesn't go past talling all parents
not to trust themselves and instead to ask .... someone...(?). Apparently
Anybody But Parent would know better in his view.

Banty


--

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5222154.stm

In article . com,
"-L." wrote:

A child is definitely going to find it difficult to distinguish
between disobeying a teacher because the teacher is asking them
to do something immoral, and disobeying because the teacher is nasty.

Guess I don't see a lot of difference - neither demands or deserves
respect.

There is a difference between respect and obedience, and it sounds like you
might be conflating them. There is also the concept of respect for the office
rather than the individual.

My third-grade teacher thought humiliating children was good for them. Or
something. She did it a lot, anyway. I would not expect my children to
respect her as a person -- but I would still expect them to allow her to
teach, not disrupt the class. That is, I would want my children to respect
her office and obey her legitimate requests. What would you want your child
to do?

It's getting them to undertstand when the line (for each)
has been crossed that is the problem, because it's always open to
interpretation.

I don't think it's the line being crossed that is the problem -- it's working
out that there IS a line. I've met adults who haven't figured out that an
uncongenial person is not necessarily the enemy.


I suspect that if you spend a lot of time emphasising disobedience,

If the "you" is not generic and is, in fact, directed at me, I never
said or implied anything about "emphasising disobedience." My approach
would be one more of "de-emphasising obedience". I have no problem
whatsoever teaching my child to question authority.

And I do believe *civil disobedience* is an intregal - and necessary -
part of culture in the US - one that is greatly underused, ATM.

It was a generic you. But the problem is the how do you teach a child to
question authority rather than think he IS the authority? As I said, I think
that's difficult for adults.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Banty wrote:

In article . com,
says...


L. wrote:

wrote:

Excerpt: Resolution #4 - "I will not take my child's side in a dispute
with the teacher, even if I think the teacher's being slightly unfair.
If I think she's being very unfair, I'll ask someone else's opinion
before talking with her."

In other words, I will distrust my own judgement and that of my child.

Um, no thanks.

I think you have to know your child. And a new parent or one whose
first child is going to school may not have very good judgment WRT
what the child is saying that the teacher is doing or wants. A child
does not always have good judgment.

I'm sure most people have had a child who tells a neighbor or stranger
about something in the family which wasn't exactly accurate, either
because of misunderstanding or misremembering the situation.

And one check on having missed communication would be to ask another
parent whether they are getting the same story from their child.

My children have rarely ever (that I remember) said anything about a
teacher that indicated that they thought the teacher was unfair, or
indicated that I should intercede for them. Most of the time I only
knew about any 'unfairness' from other parents, from the child's
siblings, or from stuff that the teacher herself told me. Most of the
time I had to infer from their behavior that something was wrong.

It certainly does NO GOOD to go up to the school with all guns
blazing.



I'm sure you're very reasonable.

Hmm. Heh

Trouble is, teachers have plenty of
legitimate complaints about overbearing parents who overreact to
everything. In the TIME cover story "What Teachers Hate About Parents"
from Feb. 2005(?), one teacher gently told a middle-schooler that she
had to work on her reading skills at home, not just in school. Result?
The student went crying to her mother and the latter went raging to the
teacher, saying her daughter had been "traumatized."

::snip::

Sure sure - there are unreasonable people in any group.

But, to state as some kind of blanket resolution that, each and every time, each
and every parent, is supposed to ask someone else (which leads me to one rather
obvious question - WHOM??) about a judgement isn't appropriate or constructive.
It doesn't even give any real guideline. It doesn't go past talling all parents
not to trust themselves and instead to ask .... someone...(?). Apparently
Anybody But Parent would know better in his view.

Banty

I don't know this book and have not read it. But if you agree with
everything except one point, that indicates to me that maybe you are
reading what he said wrong.