Is this racist?

In article , just me says...

"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message
...
The singular "black" would also be appropriate when referring to the dogs
commonly known as "Black and Tans." Black and Tan is a specific breed. To
refer to more than one B&T, you say "Black and Tans" not "Blacks and
Tans."

BTW, I found a copy of the bumper sticker online. Here it is:


http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f...l-1417/ss/1417



Yeah, now that I see one I think I've seen them before. Hunting bumper
stickers.

Wonder what Wendy would have thought of the "I hunt English" bumper sticker :-)

Banty

Wendy Marsden wrote in
:

toto wrote:

Perhaps, perhaps not. We cannot tell what was in the person's
mind, but the double entendre is there if one knows that black
people were called coons at one time in this country and that
this derived from the raccoon that black and tans are used to
hunt.

Thank you, yes, that is exactly what was on my mind. I will grant
you, though, that not everyone is as educated about the deplorable
history you related as you and I are. In fact, in may just live on as
a bit of a cutesy double entendre now. But I wince when I hear
someone joking about coon hunting.

i am well aware of the history, however i do not believe that it helps
anyone to become an apologist & overly politically correct after the fact.
the word coon referred to racoons long before it was applied to blacks.
perceiving a double entendre where none is intended says more about the
perceiver than the owner of the bumpersticker. in all likelyhood the owner
of the bumpersticker would be shocked to be told it *could* be taked as
racist!

I live in an area with a significant Hispanic immigrant population.
They are "tan". My guess is that they encounter more racism in my
area than blacks do.

are they *called* tans? i've never heard tan used as a racist slur.

75 years ago in my area two Italian immigrants named Sacco and
Vanzetti were persecuted and executed for a crime they quite obviously
did not commit because they were tan.

excuse me? Sacco & Vanzetti were tan? they spent a lot of time in the sun?
not all Italians are "tan". that's you making a racist leap, you know...
there *are* very fair Italians.
now shall we blame the persecution (and enslaving) of the Irish on thier
being tan?

I heard someone mention that I was being overly politically correct.
I would counter that by saying that I'm overly educated in what
impolitic things people do when they aren't behaving themselves.

sigh people are jerks. however pretending that teaching political
correctness solves the problem of discrimination is not true. it does
however seem to teach one to find slights where none were intended...
i believe we need to do a better job of teaching history, without focusing
on one or two groups that were treated badly... we have a long history of
treating anyone different poorly, the indiginous peoples, the blacks, the
Irish, the Italians, the Quakers, Catholics, the Mormons... pick a group &
probably somewhere in the country it was persecuted. it really doesn't help
to be apologists after the fact. we need a much better way than PC to
prevent future occurances. AFAIC, PC just talks pretty, but doesn't solve
the underlying problem.
lee
--
It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still differentiate
between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing the vital
connection between them. -Leo Buscaglia, author (1924-1998)

My DH drinks 'ding-a-ling' beer, too! I hate the stuff.

Kim

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , just me
says...

"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message
...
The singular "black" would also be appropriate when referring to the
dogs
commonly known as "Black and Tans." Black and Tan is a specific breed.
To
refer to more than one B&T, you say "Black and Tans" not "Blacks and
Tans."

BTW, I found a copy of the bumper sticker online. Here it is:



http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f.../9232539682248
78892331/eid/28/lh/h-0,l-1417/ss/1417



Yeah, now that I see one I think I've seen them before. Hunting bumper
stickers.

Wonder what Wendy would have thought of the "I hunt English" bumper
sticker :-)

tell you one thing, "coon" is a racist word in australia, so what would we
make of self-proclaimed coon hunters generally??
aaaaghhhh!
kylie

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 22:40:47 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:

no i mean about people getting so uptight about perceived insults with
regard to colour. normally, from i what i have seen its whites
getting upset, on the other persons behalf.

Yes, this does happen but I spend a whole lot of my time working
with people... of color. And a whole lot of them take insult at
anything and everything no matter how far fetched, especially if
it comes from a white person.

Indeed, one day a mother reported to our principal that I called her
a n*gger when, in fact, I hadn't called her anything and the only
words I spoke to her were, "Here you go. You can give this to me
or to the principal when you've finished filling it out!" Then
I opened the elevator for her and smiled.

So am I careful? You're damned right I'm careful. I was alone with
that woman and it was her word against mine. I was a brand new
employee at the time with no local history. That woman knew exactly
what she was doing. My saving grace: a principal with a brain
and an accuser who had a NEGATIVE history.

I worked with two girl scout troops when my dd was in middle school
and high school. Her troop was a very mixed bag with lots of
different ethnicities. Most of those girls seemed not to be overly
sensitive to the insults even the African-American girls didn't see
slurs where there were none. but their sister troop was predominantly
Aftican-American. Whenever the older troop travelled into all-white
or mostly white areas, they thought people were staring at them
and didn't feel comfortable until we returned to the city where they
saw many more black faces. At several events, the other leader
and I had to ask them to closely observe particular people's behavior
before accusing them of racism. In many cases, these people
behaved as rudely to whites as to blacks or the fault lay in
incompetence not in racism. I think that sometimes, when the
pervasive experience is of racism, the perceptions become more
developed and slights are seen in places where they are really not
racist at all.

I think that parents and teachers of both races need to really observe
and see which is which. And we need to teach children, especially
teenagers to do the same.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

In article ,
says...

tell you one thing, "coon" is a racist word in australia, so what would we
make of self-proclaimed coon hunters generally??

It can be a racial slur in the US, too.

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00) Zachary Mitchell
Theona Alexis (06/03/03) (01/12/94, fostered 09/05/01 - 07/23/03)

"Cheryl S." wrote:

Iuil wrote in message
...

"Barbara Bomberger" wrote

A black and tan is a dog (usualoly used for hunting, but the
description of my beagle colors are black and tan(


Heh. In my world a "Black and tan" is either a drink (half
Guinness and half ale) or a British soldier from the period
of the Irish War of Independence (1919-1921).

I was looking to see if anyone else said they thought of beer, not
people, when they read "black and tan". Glad to know I'm not the only
one. :-)

You aren't the only one Cheryl:-) My first thought was the beer.
I can't stand the stuff but dh is a 'beer snob' and brewer.
The dogs came a distinct second. And a racial slur? not at all.

K-

toto wrote:
Wonder what Wendy would have thought of the "I hunt English" bumper
sticker :-)

Reference to the US revolution? vbg

Nope, that wouldn't work. I taught the Revolutionary War last
summer. The colonists called themselves "English", too. For it to make
sense they would have to be saying, "I hunt Lobsterbacks" or something
like that. But there wasn't really any tradition of "hunting" the enemy,
anyway.

Wendy

"llama mama" wrote:

Thank you, yes, that is exactly what was on my mind. I will grant
you, though, that not everyone is as educated about the deplorable
history you related as you and I are. In fact, in may just live on as
a bit of a cutesy double entendre now. But I wince when I hear
someone joking about coon hunting.

i am well aware of the history, however i do not believe that it helps
anyone to become an apologist & overly politically correct after the fact.
the word coon referred to racoons long before it was applied to blacks.

That doesn't mean that people should be berated for not knowing
that. I would've had the same questions as the OP, and I live in
Kentucky, home of Daniel Boone and the coonskin cap. But I've
never heard the phrase "black and tans".

perceiving a double entendre where none is intended

You really cannot say for certain that none was intended. Unless it
was your car that was seen, you don't know. OTOH, one cannot say
that it *was* intended either, but I don't think that anyone has said
that. Only the possibility was raised. Nothing wrong with that.

says more about the
perceiver than the owner of the bumpersticker.

It really doesn't say anything about anyone. Attempting to do so
is just an exercise in fiction.

in all likelyhood the owner
of the bumpersticker would be shocked to be told it *could* be taked as
racist!

I would be shocked if the driver wasn't aware of that possibility,
even though it likely wasn't his intent. Intelligent people are aware of
different usages of different words.



P. Tierney

"P. Tierney" wrote in message
et...

I would be shocked if the driver wasn't aware of that possibility,
even though it likely wasn't his intent. Intelligent people are aware of
different usages of different words.


If the bumper sticker had referenced coons or blacks only the double
entendre might have been obvious. I'm with the other posters who have never
ever in my life heard the term "tan" used in a fashion the was derogatory
towards a particular identifiable group of people other than those who have
been outdoors long enough to get a temporary pigment change of their skin.
And, calling someone tan in that regards is usually a compliment. There is
the "tan your hide", but once again, I don't hear any connection to "hunt
black &". Really, aren't some here just grasping at straws as regards this
particular bumper sticker? While being aware of how others might take our
remarks is appropriate, I think that *this* reference is a bit out there.

-Aula



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