Feeling a big anxious about induction vs. c-section

Joybelle wrote:

Thanks for that piece of advice! I think I need to give it to the people
around me, also. There's been a bit of pressure to get things set up
because of accomodations and what to do with the kids. It WOULD be easier
to know the date, but still I don't want to do something just for the sake
of convenience (though, it is a little more involved than that, obviously!).

I'm sure that the scheduling issues are enough to drive
anyone nuts. And, if when you take it all together, you decide
an elective c-section is what you need to do in order to make
everything work out okay for you, then there's no shame in doing
that. But if what makes you feel better is to give it the best
possible shot at avoiding the c-section, then everyone else can
just learn to cope ;-) You're the pregnant woman. There aren't
many times in your life when you get to be selfish, but this is
one of them!

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Joybelle wrote:

I do think the hydrocephalus may be a bit of a factor (but at this point
it
isn't-baby is measuring up consistently 7days behind and the head is
measuring up along with that), but I did have some lowering of my
amniotic
fluid index. That's when I was told I wouldn't be allowed to go to 40
weeks. I'm finding that I'm fine with the idea of a vaginal birth if I
go
into labor, and I'm fine with a c-section if it's indicated I need one,
but
I'm not very fine with the idea of an induction. The AFI did go up last
time, so I have to think that gives me some bargaining room.

With that one, you can also ask for a clear description
of risks vs. benefits. On the one hand, we know that in general,
the tests are less than definitive. If one doesn't look so great,
try another the next day and see if you get a different reading.
Two bad readings are far more indicative of problems than one
bad reading.

Absolutely, and they've even said the measuring isn't all that accurate.
The risks we've been given are cord compression and difficulty delivering.
That is with an AFI of 4 or under. We have been above that, thankfully.

I don't think you ever need to schedule an induction
in advance. Either there's evidence that it's necessary *now*,
or there isn't. If there isn't, you can wait and look for
more evidence tomorrow (or next week, or whenever would be
appropriate). So, just take it one day, and one set of
tests at a time and deal with the issue of induction when
you have evidence that you need to get the baby out now.
When/if that happens, *that* is the time to evaluate
the likelihood of success of an induction. What is your
Bishop score then?

Yep, that sounds really good. Thanks, Ericka.

If you go step by step, it makes a lot of the
"what ifs" easier to deal with.

Thanks for that piece of advice! I think I need to give it to the people
around me, also. There's been a bit of pressure to get things set up
because of accomodations and what to do with the kids. It WOULD be easier
to know the date, but still I don't want to do something just for the sake
of convenience (though, it is a little more involved than that, obviously!).


--
Joy

Rose 1-99
Iris 2-01
Spencer 3-03
# 4 Sept 2005

"Nikki" wrote in message
...

I don't have any advice - I don't know anything ;-). I just wanted to
offer
you some support. I imagine it is totally natural in your situation to be
worrying about things. Everything. This is something to pin your worries
on because it is something you have some power over. I think it makes
perfect sense to speak with one of the doctors again about your worries to
help ease your mind. In these types of situations I try to seperate the
facts from my worries. In your case 3-4 specialists said a vaginal birth
was safe. That seems legit to me!!

Thanks for the support, Nikki! I think I just need to hear it one more
time.

We are also facing an induction now rather than being "allowed" to go
into labor on my own. I really, really dread, fear, despise the idea
of an induction. I'm just afraid that I'll go through the induction,
end up with a c-section, and have a harder recovery than if I go for
a c-section in the first place.

I'm with you in that I'd want some concrete reasons to schedule the
induction. I did finally consent to one for less then concrete reasons
because they succeeded in freaking me out. The good news is that it was
completely successful and I was told they mostly are for woman that have
already had babies.

My other sister who had her first baby in May had an induction for no reason
at 39 weeks. She had a very positive and successful experience. I think I'm
just going to do what Ericka said and only have an induction if it is needed
Now.

They are probably the
ones causing that anxiety in a way because some people are
questioning the wisdom of the doctors for allowing me to have a
vaginal birth. My mother keeps sharing stories of people she's
talked to who think a c-section is absolutely warranted.

Ugh - I think at this point you should kindly ask everyone to just not
tell
you what to do anymore or question anything. At this late date they just
need to be supportive. I know that is easier said then done and I need to
take my own advice on that front ;-)

I think you are right. I feel like just avoiding everybody.

I'm really just trying to work this out in my head. Thanks for
listening.

Wishing you the best and post as much as you want/need!

Thanks, Nikki!! It's been very helpful posting about it! I'm feeling
better about facing the doctor on Friday.


--
Joy

Rose 1-99
Iris 2-01
Spencer 3-03
# 4 Sept 2005

"Mary W." wrote in message
nk.net...

I just wanted to say that I had alot of the same thoughts with my
last birth, because it was a VBAC. I was even weighing some induction
talk too. Most people thought I should just have a scheduled section,
etc. VBAC is dangerous, etc. Thankfully my husband, doula and midwives
were very supportive so when those doubts started creeping in I was
able to remind myself of why I wanted a VBAC (which I got).

Thanks, Mary. I'm glad you got your VBAC!!

So, although our situations are very different, I had some very
similar worries and doubts - I think its really normal.

It definitely helps to hear it's normal.

I hope you find a peaceful place and concentrate on good labor
thoughts. And I hope you go into labor on your own

I hope I do, too! I'm what I call a 41-weeker, and I'm just hoping this
little one decides it would like to be earlier than that.

I agree with Ericka that its kind of silly to schedule an induction.
You either need one now, or you can wait.

Good luck!

Thank you! I agree with Ericka and you, and I'm going to do my best to
stand up for that.


--
Joy

Rose 1-99
Iris 2-01
Spencer 3-03
# 4 Sept 2005

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...

remember that they never have the full information only you and probably
your husband has it straight from the doctors mouths, however well you try
and explain it to other people, they get your interpretation and then make
their own interpretation of that, which means they can miss some of the
risks, or blow them up.

So true.

I think what Ericka says about taking things one day at a time is really
excellent advice, an induction would be for the sake of the baby's health,
so wait til the baby's condition warrents it. I think there are very few
conditions where scheduling a date well in advance is the best course of
treatment, cholestasis would be the only one I can think of right now.

It is excellent advice, and I feel "armed" now, so to speak.

Thanks, Anne!
--
Joy

Rose 1-99
Iris 2-01
Spencer 3-03
# 4 Sept 2005

wrote in message ...
Joybelle writes:

: I do think the hydrocephalus may be a bit of a factor (but at this point
it
: isn't-baby is measuring up consistently 7days behind and the head is
: measuring up along with that), but I did have some lowering of my
amniotic
: fluid index. That's when I was told I wouldn't be allowed to go to 40
: weeks. I'm finding that I'm fine with the idea of a vaginal birth if I
go
: into labor, and I'm fine with a c-section if it's indicated I need one,
but
: I'm not very fine with the idea of an induction. The AFI did go up last
: time, so I have to think that gives me some bargaining room.

First, sorry for not paying attention earlier on. Second, given this
respone from you, IMHO you have this one well understood and you don't
need any help from us!

Thanks, Larry. The support helps Tremendously.

Still, best wishes and we'll keep thinking about you,

Thank you!


--
Joy

Rose 1-99
Iris 2-01
Spencer 3-03
# 4 Sept 2005

Joybelle wrote:
They
are probably the ones causing that anxiety in a way because some people are
questioning the wisdom of the doctors for allowing me to have a vaginal
birth. My mother keeps sharing stories of people she's talked to who think
a c-section is absolutely warranted. A couple of these are nurses and
chiropracters or people who've had kids with sb (she knows a lot of
people!).

I'm really just trying to work this out in my head. Thanks for listening.


I will add an anecdote from the other side to counteract the ones your
mom has been sharing -- my cousin has a little boy with spina bifida
and he was born vaginally. He was her first birth too, she didn't even
have a "proven pelvis" like you do. It didn't make the SB any worse. I
don't really know too much about SB but I do know that his is not a
mild case and the recommendation was still to have him vaginally. Good
luck with all your decisions Joy.

Elle

IMO, you're overstepping the boundaries here Todd. If you have anything to
offer that's relevant to Joy, by all means, include it in the thread.
Considering what Joy has been through already in her pregnancy, I don't
think she needs it to be the subject of debate on misc.health.alternative
and sci.med. I don't think anyone likes to see the personal lives of MKPers
become pawns in a cause in such a blatantly obvious manner, no matter how
important the cause is. Until recently you responded on a more human levels
to individual posters and showed more respect for that thin line in the sand
that is netiquette, and I appreciated that.
I also don't understand your constant attacks on Ericka and Larry (and
Barbara too?). Perhaps their methods are different from yours, but I think
they want the same things for MKPers and labouring women that you do. Larry
is crunchier than the balls on a brass monkey!
After a point - and anyone who knows me will know how alien it is to me to
say this - it all becomes semantics. Can't people agree to disagree on some
points, and admit they have a common goal or two? Who is the enemy?


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
...
LARRY - IS THIS CHILD ABUSE?

I mentioned Larry McMahan when I asked Barbara (Circe) is she thinks
temporary baby asphyxiation is child abuse...

I wrote to Barbara:

No need to "beg" to differ with me - people differ with me all the time -
like for example the time that Ericka Kammerer pretended publicly -
ERRONEOUSLY - that childbirth educator Henci Goer warns that
obstetricians
are closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping birth canals closed the
"extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck.

I welcome ALL differing; though obviously, I still think Ericka's (and
Henci's!) behavior bizarre - like Larry McMahan's notion that the massive
obstetric crimes are just standard "substandard" care and not crimes.

Speaking of obstetric crime...

Barbara, you snipped Dr. Morley's temporary baby asphyxiation experiment.

Here it is again:

"[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and
thumb...The
[fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the
color
will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue
(vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be
able to observe, without interference, a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration
on
a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds. Common sense will
soon
release the finger and thumb."
http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm

Barbara, do you think it is a crime for obstetricians to temporarily
asphyxiate babies to demonstrate to themselves that they should not
PERMANENTLY asphyxiate umbilical cord oxygen and rob babies of up to 50%
of
their blood volume?

Or do we differ on that point too?


Larry McMahan replied:

In misc.kids.pregnancy wrote:
: In misc.kids.pregnancy Todd Gastaldo wrote:

: : My post was for "new readers and chiros" - not Joybelle necessarily.

: That's the problem. Responses in a thread started by a regular poster
: should remain directed to that poster, and remain OT and limited to
: mostly to that poster's needs.

Larry,

There is no problem except your attempted use of "netiquette" concerns to
cover-up your embarrassment at euphemizing mass child abuse by MDs as
standard "substandard" care.

Law enforcement is looking the other way - babies be damned - and you are
pretending that means that no crime is occurring.

When mass child abuse is suspected - EVERYONE hears about it - everyone
has
a chance to PREVENT it - that's what I would want if I was a child being
abused.

By creating a new subject line, everyone reading the thread instantly knew
there was a change.

Larry, you are publicly pretending otherwise - just like you are publicly
pretending that obstetricians are only practicing standard "substandard"
care and not committing obvious crimes.


: posts for "new readers and" any others should start a new thread.

: You may post as you wish, just start a new thread when your post is
: OT to or not directed to the OP.

: Thanks,
: Larry

Oooh, and finally (didn't see this one until I hit send and saw the
list of ng's I was posting to. Grrrr)

Last piece of netiquitte is don't add newsgroups when when responding
to a post. Leave it in the orignal poster's newsgroup(s) only. You
can add the other newsgroups when you start your own thread.

TIA for being courteous.

Larry

Babies are being abused en masse - sometimes killed.

You are preaching "netiquette" as MDs perform mass child abuse.

It's about as useful to babies as you claiming that the mass child abuse
is
standard "substandard" care.

I will add back the newsgroups you deleted.

Todd

No experience here and nothing to add, but I hope you get the birth you
want, whatever that ends up being! Does that make sense?

--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/


"Joybelle" wrote in message
...
I shouldn't be posting, I should really be getting things DONE around here,
but this has been going on in my head the last week.

"Jamie Clark" wrote in message
...

I think Ericka may have hit the nail on the head. My guess is that part
of
the reason why Joybelle would be not okay with the idea of induction is
that
they are usually so random -- throw a dart at the calendar and pick a
date,
any date. Why Tuesday instead of Thursday? Why 39w3d instead of 39w6d?

Exactly. Part of the reason we were given for a Monday or Tuesday is it's
easier for them because the neurosurgeons and staff would all be there
rather than being on call. Honestly, I'd be more willing to schedule an
induction AFTER 40 weeks. I think I'd be much more likely to have a
successful induction if they were to wait. The doctor we saw, though, was
quite adament about how this baby had to come out by 40 weeks. I guess
we'll just wait and see what this doctor has to say on Friday!

I like the idea of taking it one day, and one test at a time, at least in
regards to induction verses letting your body go into labor on it's own.
If
there are persistent and compelling reasons to induce, I don't think the
idea will both you any more, as the reasons will be compelling and
persistent. If there are no compelling reasons, then there really isn't a
reason to start labor artificially, now is there?

Absolutely.

Of course that doesn't deal with the whole "should you have a c-section"
or
not issue. But again, I agree with Ericka -- talk to your specialists and
keep gathering information. Eventually the decision should become clear.
You should be able to be convinced of the safety of a vaginal birth, or
convinced of the need for a c-section.

Thanks, Jamie. Compiling my notes for Friday.

--
Joy

Rose 1-99
Iris 2-01
Spencer 3-03
# 4 Sept 2005