My question for spankers

Becca

Your suggestion would work in some cases but certainly not in all of them.
For example, my 8yo daughter has a habit of leaving her bicycle in the front
yard even though I have told her sevral times to make sure she puts it in
the garage. If her bicycle were to get stolen, I would let suffice as her
punishment...you neglected a rule and now you do not have a bicycle. On the
other hand however, if my 2yo son were to wander out into the street, should
I allow him to get hit by a car? That would certainly teach him a lesson
wouldn't it?

Jeremy

Jeremy James wrote:
Becca

Your suggestion would work in some cases but certainly not in all of them.
For example, my 8yo daughter has a habit of leaving her bicycle in the front
yard even though I have told her sevral times to make sure she puts it in
the garage. If her bicycle were to get stolen, I would let suffice as her
punishment...you neglected a rule and now you do not have a bicycle. On the
other hand however, if my 2yo son were to wander out into the street, should
I allow him to get hit by a car? That would certainly teach him a lesson
wouldn't it?

Jeremy

If I may, in the interest of better parenting.

I doubt there is a parent on the planet, unless severely compromised by
some mental disability that would fail to notice a child is 8 or a
child is 2 years of age and change their interventions accordingly.

If you want to contribute please try to let go of the attempts to
debate with fallacious arguments to "win" and focus on real needs.

Take the bicycle example. What various strategies might be more likely
to work?

I rather liked simply writing the bike off and letting the 8 year old
sort that out. One could be helpful and sympathetic and understanding
of our human failings like forgetting to put things away. Can I assume
you too suffer, like all the rest of us, from that one?

What do you do after you have lost some tool to rust from leaving it
outdoors overwinter, or you wallet no the top of the car and drive
away?

Do YOU, and all the rest of us, not simply do our best to recover from
the loss? Hell, I'd explain all that to an 8 year old, and in our talk
elicite responses as to her ideas on how we ALL could reduce our
forgetfullness. Once engaged she is going to feel you and she are in
this together, which of course as parent who cares and child who trusts
YOU ARE.

THIS is how you created children that grow to be responsible adults,
not by punishment. But by consequenses that include seeking solutions
and recoveries.

Any ideas about how the child could go about "recovery" after a bike is
stolen.

What would you do after your lawn mower, after you forgot to lock the
storage shed, ws stolen? Do you hit yourself on the butt with a switch,
give yourself a time out, send yourself to your room, or
.............................."

I'm not going to give you answers. You and your child have a
conversation underway that started at or before birth (according to
your beliefs) and hopefully will not end, in deep trust, until one of
you dies...or possibly even continue then, according to your beliefs.

Why IS it that we think pain is the best teacher when in fact that is
true for all those creatures that do NOT have speach, and the power to
create goods and physical situations like humans do?

That IS our great power over the animals....that we can modify our
environment and continue to IMPROVE. They can only do it without ONE
lifetime, if at all (very rare) but we have history, recent and long
past, that continues our growth. Why not use what we have been given my
God, the Universe, etc. (according to one's belief)?

Just for the sake of education: your arguement is an attempt to argue
two dissimilar
situations. In debate it is referred to as "Fallacy of Accident."

What SEEMS logical in one circumstance does not actually always apply
in another because conditions are not the same or have changed.

In fact what can be right in one circumstance could be wrong to the
point of dangerous in another.

Do you honestly think the becca would suggest using the logical or
natural (your example was the "natural," of course) consequences if it
would endanger a child?

If we are going to seek better parenting how about being honest and
logical about it, rather than having a silly war?

And why must your child be "punished" or there even be a "rule" about
what she does with her own belongings other than when they impact YOU,
such as leaving her bike behind your car in the driveway?

If she loses HER possession that YOU do not have to replace, like
eyeglasses, or a winter coat you have the perfect opportunity to teach
real world life skills.

You bought the bike. You are upset the gift was not appreciated enough
for her to protect. Without making a huge thing about it you could
express that. And be ready to move on to help her come out of any guilt
she feels at YOUR loss. Best way? Help her resolve HER loss.

Am I getting through here?

It's the same you'd treat a best friend, or one that thinks you are.

Would you berate, punish, humiliate your friend if he had his favorite
garden tools stolen because he forget and left them out? Naw you'd lend
him yours, go on a shopping trip with him, or even lend him a few bucks
if he needed them to replace the tools.

And that is how love is expressed, and how people learn far more
effectively and powerfully than any application of pain. It's efficient
too, because there is no healing to do.

Kane

Obviously you would use Natural consequences within the confines of what is age appropriate. Your 2yo son may not understand that wandering into the street could result in serious injury. Then it is your job to participate in some GOYB (get off your butt) Parenting. There are times when Natural consequences are not appropriate. In those situations you have to be the teacher, not the car speeding down the street

Originally Posted by Jeremy James

Becca

Your suggestion would work in some cases but certainly not in all of them.
For example, my 8yo daughter has a habit of leaving her bicycle in the front
yard even though I have told her sevral times to make sure she puts it in
the garage. If her bicycle were to get stolen, I would let suffice as her
punishment...you neglected a rule and now you do not have a bicycle. On the
other hand however, if my 2yo son were to wander out into the street, should
I allow him to get hit by a car? That would certainly teach him a lesson
wouldn't it?

Jeremy

beccafromlalaland wrote:
Obviously you would use Natural consequences within the confines of what
is age appropriate. Your 2yo son may not understand that wandering into
the street could result in serious injury. Then it is your job to
participate in some GOYB (get off your butt) Parenting. There are
times when Natural consequences are not appropriate. In those
situations you have to be the teacher, not the car speeding down the
street

You mean to tell me becca tongue in cheek you would set up a barrier
between your child and a hungry lion, rather than just spanking him to
teach him to say away?

How gauche.

0:-



Jeremy James Wrote:
Becca

Your suggestion would work in some cases but certainly not in all of
them.
For example, my 8yo daughter has a habit of leaving her bicycle in the
front
yard even though I have told her sevral times to make sure she puts it
in
the garage. If her bicycle were to get stolen, I would let suffice as
her
punishment...you neglected a rule and now you do not have a bicycle.
On the
other hand however, if my 2yo son were to wander out into the street,
should
I allow him to get hit by a car? That would certainly teach him a
lesson
wouldn't it?

Jeremy


--
beccafromlalaland

On 20 Jan 2006, Kane wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
Obviously you would use Natural consequences within the confines of what
is age appropriate. Your 2yo son may not understand that wandering into
the street could result in serious injury. Then it is your job to
participate in some GOYB (get off your butt) Parenting. There are
times when Natural consequences are not appropriate. In those
situations you have to be the teacher, not the car speeding down the
street

You mean to tell me becca tongue in cheek you would set up a barrier
between your child and a hungry lion, rather than just spanking him to
teach him to say away?

How gauche.

0:-

Well, Ignoranus Kane0 would say that tasering could also be used to
keep a child from running into the street. In fact, according to
Ignoranus Kane0, tasers are SAFE! ;-)

Doan

Doan wrote:
On 20 Jan 2006, Kane wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
Obviously you would use Natural consequences within the confines of what
is age appropriate. Your 2yo son may not understand that wandering into
the street could result in serious injury. Then it is your job to
participate in some GOYB (get off your butt) Parenting. There are
times when Natural consequences are not appropriate. In those
situations you have to be the teacher, not the car speeding down the
street

You mean to tell me becca tongue in cheek you would set up a barrier
between your child and a hungry lion, rather than just spanking him to
teach him to say away?

How gauche.

0:-

Well, Ignoranus Kane0 would say that tasering could also be used to
keep a child from running into the street.

Betcha you are afraid to fully cite and quote my actual comments,
aren't yah little frightened attention seeking child? Full citation
and link to thread where I made such a claim without any mitigating
circumstances. You do recall the child in question was drunk, do you
not? And outrunning a police officer that stopped her from running into
traffic, right?

In fact, according to
Ignoranus Kane0, tasers are SAFE! ;-)

Let's see where I said that, with a full citation and link to the
message or thread.


Doan

You are a lying attention seeking little fool that is so sick with your
own traumatized childhood and the defense of your parents that you
would lie as you do above, on a near constant basis.

You appear to me to be a classic case of psychological harm caused by
such trauma.

I feel very sorry for you, but not enough to let you lie without
exposure.

Any new posters, before you believe this attention seeking
developmentally arrested boy look up his aps posting history. You'll
see, even if you are a spanker, that what I'm pointing out is true.

Is this the kind of person you want defending spanking?

Kane

On 20 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 20 Jan 2006, Kane wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
Obviously you would use Natural consequences within the confines of what
is age appropriate. Your 2yo son may not understand that wandering into
the street could result in serious injury. Then it is your job to
participate in some GOYB (get off your butt) Parenting. There are
times when Natural consequences are not appropriate. In those
situations you have to be the teacher, not the car speeding down the
street

You mean to tell me becca tongue in cheek you would set up a barrier
between your child and a hungry lion, rather than just spanking him to
teach him to say away?

How gauche.

0:-

Well, Ignoranus Kane0 would say that tasering could also be used to
keep a child from running into the street.

Betcha you are afraid to fully cite and quote my actual comments,
aren't yah little frightened attention seeking child? Full citation
and link to thread where I made such a claim without any mitigating
circumstances. You do recall the child in question was drunk, do you
not? And outrunning a police officer that stopped her from running into
traffic, right?

In fact, according to
Ignoranus Kane0, tasers are SAFE! ;-)

Let's see where I said that, with a full citation and link to the
message or thread.

what? You don't remember what you have posted? ;-)

"Are TASER devices safe?

Yes. Independent medical and scientific experts have determined TASER
devices to be among the safest use-of-force options available. "

You are once again proven to be a LIAR! ;-)

Doan

Doan wrote:
On 20 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 20 Jan 2006, Kane wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
Obviously you would use Natural consequences within the confines of what
is age appropriate. Your 2yo son may not understand that wandering into
the street could result in serious injury. Then it is your job to
participate in some GOYB (get off your butt) Parenting. There are
times when Natural consequences are not appropriate. In those
situations you have to be the teacher, not the car speeding down the
street

You mean to tell me becca tongue in cheek you would set up a barrier
between your child and a hungry lion, rather than just spanking him to
teach him to say away?

How gauche.

0:-

Well, Ignoranus Kane0 would say that tasering could also be used to
keep a child from running into the street.

Betcha you are afraid to fully cite and quote my actual comments,
aren't yah little frightened attention seeking child? Full citation
and link to thread where I made such a claim without any mitigating
circumstances. You do recall the child in question was drunk, do you
not? And outrunning a police officer that stopped her from running into
traffic, right?

In fact, according to
Ignoranus Kane0, tasers are SAFE! ;-)

Let's see where I said that, with a full citation and link to the
message or thread.

what? You don't remember what you have posted? ;-)

Sure I do.

"Are TASER devices safe?

You aren't asking the question I answered.

I didn't say they were safest.

"devices to be among the safest use-of-force options available."

Dancing screeching hysterical monkeyboy, you have done it again. Simply
playing with the language and claiming others are saying things they
didn't. Or didn't say what you say they said.


Yes. Independent medical and scientific experts have determined TASER
devices to be among the safest use-of-force options available. "

You are once again proven to be a LIAR! ;-)

No, you are proven to be impaired.

R R R R 0:-


Doan

On 20 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 20 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 20 Jan 2006, Kane wrote:


beccafromlalaland wrote:
Obviously you would use Natural consequences within the confines of what
is age appropriate. Your 2yo son may not understand that wandering into
the street could result in serious injury. Then it is your job to
participate in some GOYB (get off your butt) Parenting. There are
times when Natural consequences are not appropriate. In those
situations you have to be the teacher, not the car speeding down the
street

You mean to tell me becca tongue in cheek you would set up a barrier
between your child and a hungry lion, rather than just spanking him to
teach him to say away?

How gauche.

0:-

Well, Ignoranus Kane0 would say that tasering could also be used to
keep a child from running into the street.

Betcha you are afraid to fully cite and quote my actual comments,
aren't yah little frightened attention seeking child? Full citation
and link to thread where I made such a claim without any mitigating
circumstances. You do recall the child in question was drunk, do you
not? And outrunning a police officer that stopped her from running into
traffic, right?

In fact, according to
Ignoranus Kane0, tasers are SAFE! ;-)

Let's see where I said that, with a full citation and link to the
message or thread.

what? You don't remember what you have posted? ;-)

Sure I do.

"Are TASER devices safe?

You aren't asking the question I answered.

I didn't say they were safest.

Did I mention safest, Ignoranus Kane0? ;-)

"devices to be among the safest use-of-force options available."

Dancing screeching hysterical monkeyboy, you have done it again. Simply
playing with the language and claiming others are saying things they
didn't. Or didn't say what you say they said.

So did you or did you not say they are SAFE?


Yes. Independent medical and scientific experts have determined TASER
devices to be among the safest use-of-force options available. "

You are once again proven to be a LIAR! ;-)

No, you are proven to be impaired.

LOL! Are you the one that say spanking is part of "non-violent"
parenting?

Doan

Dance monkeyboy dance.