Dual Language Program

I have enrolled my daughter in a public school that offers a Dual Language
Spanish/English class. Half the class is native Spanish speakers and half is
native English speakers. The children are taught from preK-2 in Spanish
through out the day except for language arts, where they break into groups
which is taught in their native language. In 3-4 grade they are then taught
the whole day in English except language arts is taught in the second language.
I did have some concerns before enrolling her in the program but I thought
that this year of preschool would be my trial year. I figured it was worth it
even if the least she learns is a few Spanish words and develops her social
skills. But now I am having to decide if I want to commit her to the program
for the next 4 years. In theory I love the idea of her being Bilingual,
Biliterate and Bicultural. This is the projected goal of the students in this
program. The children in programs like these have entered 5th grade not only
being proficient in both languages but are actually ahead in English then their
peers whom did not participate in the program. My main concern is that our
program is only in its first year and I don't have much to compare it to. I
was wondering if any of you have any such programs in your area or any personal
experience with these programs. I want to make sure I am making the most
informed decision. For those of you that aren't familiar maybe you could give
me some of your concerns, maybe they are things I haven't thought of.

Thanks,
~Kimberly
Mommy to Alexis Iliana 07/17/99 and
Emma Elidia & Aislyn Gabriela 10/01/02
come see us...
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aislynemma/

"KimandJuan" wrote in message
...

(snip...) The children in programs like these have entered 5th grade not
only
| being proficient in both languages but are actually ahead in English then
their
| peers whom did not participate in the program.

I'd like to peruse the evidence for this statement if you have it handy.

My main concern is that our
| program is only in its first year and I don't have much to compare it to.
I
| was wondering if any of you have any such programs in your area or any
personal
| experience with these programs. I want to make sure I am making the most
| informed decision. For those of you that aren't familiar maybe you could
give
| me some of your concerns, maybe they are things I haven't thought of.

I don't know about those programs but I can report that here in Calgary
where they have French Immersion public (though Catholic) grade schools,
they don't publish their English standardized reading test scores. That is,
you can look up ALL other public school reading and math test scores EXCEPT
those for the French Immersion schools. I suspect there is a reason for
that.

I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost the
English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it for
my girls. I don't know if being fluent in another language can overcome
test scores when trying to get into college.

That's my take on it.

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

Sharon ) wrote:

I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost the
English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it for
my girls.

I'd have said standardized test scores in English correlate far, far more with
leisure reading habits than they do with any instructional method whatsoever.
If anything, being literate in two languages would be extraordinarily helpful.
Latin was immensely helpful on the verbal SAT, and French would have been
nearly as much so.

I'd gladly drop fifty points off my SAT verbal score (which I could easily
spare) if it meant I could be fluent in a foreign language, anyway. But I doubt
it would mean doing that.

The main thing, however, is whether the teaching is any good. The folks I've
heard complaining about particular French-language schools in Canada have been
complaining about the quality of the schools, full stop, not about the language
part. But that's not relevant to the OP.

--Helen

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
| Sharon ) wrote:
|
| I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost
the
| English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
| requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it
for
| my girls.
|
| I'd have said standardized test scores in English correlate far, far more
with
| leisure reading habits than they do with any instructional method
whatsoever.
| If anything, being literate in two languages would be extraordinarily
helpful.
| Latin was immensely helpful on the verbal SAT, and French would have been
| nearly as much so.

Wouldn't it be an a priori reasonable assumption that the English language
vocabulary of student's taught entirely in English would be larger that that
for student's who have a lot of their subject instruction in another
language? Vocabulary is an important part of the verbal SAT. Students who
are fluent in a second language will ace the AP language exam but how will
they do on reading and math tests given in English?

(snip)

| The main thing, however, is whether the teaching is any good. The folks
I've
| heard complaining about particular French-language schools in Canada have
been
| complaining about the quality of the schools, full stop, not about the
language
| part. But that's not relevant to the OP.

It seems to me the situation in the French immersion schools here would be
hopelessly conflated between "quality of the school" and "intrinsic merit of
French immersion when trying to test into top-tier schools." If it wasn't
then they would be publishing the reading and math scores. Why don't they
even publish the math scores I wonder? Perhaps its related the fact that
math is taught in French yet is being tested (later) in English? I don't
know.

Why do you think the French Immersion public schools grade schools don't
publish the standardized test scores?

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

lizzard woman wrote:

Why do you think the French Immersion public schools grade schools don't
publish the standardized test scores?

One thing that might be overlooked here is that we don't use SAT's for
our college and university application process. So the testing becomes
irrelavant.

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

"DeliciousTruffles" wrote in
message ...
| lizzard woman wrote:
|
| Why do you think the French Immersion public schools grade schools don't
| publish the standardized test scores?
|
| One thing that might be overlooked here is that we don't use SAT's for
| our college and university application process. So the testing becomes
| irrelavant.

Wow. That was no small feature to overlook.

I withdraw all my comments in this thread... never mind (heh... heh...
heh...)

How ya feeling?

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

"DeliciousTruffles" wrote in
message ...
| lizzard woman wrote:
|
| Why do you think the French Immersion public schools grade schools don't
| publish the standardized test scores?
|
| One thing that might be overlooked here is that we don't use SAT's for
| our college and university application process. So the testing becomes
| irrelavant.

Wow. That was no small feature to overlook.

I withdraw all my comments in this thread... never mind (heh... heh...
heh...)

How ya feeling?

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

lizzard woman wrote:

Why do you think the French Immersion public schools grade schools don't
publish the standardized test scores?

One thing that might be overlooked here is that we don't use SAT's for
our college and university application process. So the testing becomes
irrelavant.

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
| Sharon ) wrote:
|
| I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost
the
| English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
| requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it
for
| my girls.
|
| I'd have said standardized test scores in English correlate far, far more
with
| leisure reading habits than they do with any instructional method
whatsoever.
| If anything, being literate in two languages would be extraordinarily
helpful.
| Latin was immensely helpful on the verbal SAT, and French would have been
| nearly as much so.

Wouldn't it be an a priori reasonable assumption that the English language
vocabulary of student's taught entirely in English would be larger that that
for student's who have a lot of their subject instruction in another
language? Vocabulary is an important part of the verbal SAT. Students who
are fluent in a second language will ace the AP language exam but how will
they do on reading and math tests given in English?

(snip)

| The main thing, however, is whether the teaching is any good. The folks
I've
| heard complaining about particular French-language schools in Canada have
been
| complaining about the quality of the schools, full stop, not about the
language
| part. But that's not relevant to the OP.

It seems to me the situation in the French immersion schools here would be
hopelessly conflated between "quality of the school" and "intrinsic merit of
French immersion when trying to test into top-tier schools." If it wasn't
then they would be publishing the reading and math scores. Why don't they
even publish the math scores I wonder? Perhaps its related the fact that
math is taught in French yet is being tested (later) in English? I don't
know.

Why do you think the French Immersion public schools grade schools don't
publish the standardized test scores?

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...

If anything, being literate in two languages would be extraordinarily
helpful.
Latin was immensely helpful on the verbal SAT, and French would have been
nearly as much so.

I agree. I think exposure to other languages helps vocabulary quite a lot.

My kids' school uses a spelling program that has (imho) some absolutely
ridiculous words on the weekly list (108 words per week with 40-50 words on
a test every Friday. Often, these words are entirely new to the kids, so we
wind up having a vocabulary lesson as well as a spelling lesson. One of
this weeks' words, for example, is "manipulation"; it would be much easier
for the kids to know what this means if they knew that "le main" is "the
hand" in French. When we worked on "interruption", I had to remind them
that it came from the Latin "inter" and "ruptare" [or whatever that root
is...] to help them remember the double R [kids up here all know about
ruptured pipes!]. In my opinion, having a second language would *help*,
vocabulary in the primary language, not hurt.

Julie
Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97