Who has the ultimate right to choose?

"CafeWriter" wrote in message
news:kPFQh.23507$6m4.4978@pd7urf1no...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"elizabeth" wrote in message
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On Apr 2, 11:39 am, "Chris" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Mar 29, 1:41 pm, "Chris" wrote:
Does the right to choose whether or not to give birth rest SOLELY
with
the
woman?

Since she's the SOLE person who is pregnant, you bet your ass.

Then she alone bears the SOLE responsibility for such choice and any
resulting consequences, right?

Nope.

Are pregnant women the ONLY ones who are allowed to escape
responsibility
for their choices or do you and I and others get to escape
responsibility
for our choices too?


BOTH parents are supposed to support the child.

Too bad men feel that's optional . .. if I were in charge, in such
cases, I would make the woman get a job and make the man do all the
actual childcare, with no vacations, under the supervision of parents
who know how to raise children properly .. . if men knew they'd be
FORCED TO DO THE WORK, they'd line up for vasectomies, and never miss
a child support payment.

so if you are one of those asshole deadbeats, get snipped, or maybe we
should do it old school, with an axe.




I've had enough. For all the men who got women pregnant and decided to
become deadbeat fathers,

Men don't decide to become fathers; women make that decision; unless, of
course, your definition of fatherhood begins at conception.

you are not worth it.

Shame on you. That's why if a father does not pay child support or help
the
mother out, then he is not truly a father that his child would know but
rather a man who doesn't love his child.

Not paying cash to a child's mother says NOTHING about not loving said
child.


Now geez that's probably part of the reason why some women chose
abortions;
they already knew that the men that got them pregnant wouldn't help them
out.

Did you purposely decide to not answer my above question, or did you simply
overlook it?

On Apr 4, 10:34 am, "Chris" wrote:
"CafeWriter" wrote in message
snip

I've had enough. For all the men who got women pregnant and decided to
become deadbeat fathers,

Men don't decide to become fathers; women make that decision; unless, of
course, your definition of fatherhood begins at conception.

Men are free to get vasectomies before sex, they are free to use
condoms. Women can't get vasectomies nor decide to use condoms,
that's the man's choice. So you don't have as many choices as women,
too bad. If women had a method as cheap, safe, and effective as
vasectomy, that could be as easily reversed, if they could store ova
just by having an orgasm the way men can store sperm . .. well, there
wouldn't be many abortions at all.

But because most men feel entitled to sexual access, and feel that
it's not their problem if the woman gets pregnant, abortion will be
needed, far more often than it should.

you are not worth it.

Shame on you. That's why if a father does not pay child support or help
the
mother out, then he is not truly a father that his child would know but
rather a man who doesn't love his child.

Not paying cash to a child's mother says NOTHING about not loving said
child.

Bull****. Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort
of heartless asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.

In fact, that's very sociopathic, not caring about your own
offspring. Maybe you realize your mother made the wrong choice on
abortion, and thus, don't want your offspring to have a chance?

Now geez that's probably part of the reason why some women chose
abortions;
they already knew that the men that got them pregnant wouldn't help them
out.

Did you purposely decide to not answer my above question, or did you simply
overlook it?

So what's your beef, mad about paying child support?
Well, why not get custody and make her pay you?

"elizabeth" wrote
..................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort
of heartless asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.
==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.

On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of heartless asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.

==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.

As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.
And since vasectomies are a couple of orders of magnitude CHEAPER than
tubals, and since vasectomies are at least an order of magnitude MORE
EFFECTIVE THAN TUBALS, it's far more cost effective to snip the men,
especially when you factor in the cost of medical complications of
tubals . . . tubals do kill women, but no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.

"elizabeth" wrote
On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.

==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.

As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.
==
G So, how is it that a man would impregnate a sterilized woman?
==
...........................
no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.
==
And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.
==
==

On Apr 8, 7:37 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.

==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.

As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.

==
G So, how is it that a man would impregnate a sterilized woman?
==
.......................... no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.

==
And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.

So you don't know any women who died from tubals?
Not exactly a good sample, dearie.

I know this because I know how to do research on a given topic.
Try going to google, and enter "tubal ligation morbidity mortality"
and you will get the actual data.

If you are so stupid you can't even Google, you need to be castrated,
for the good of the gene pool.

this isn't an official medical source, but it should be dumbed down
enough for you to understand.
http://www.answers.com/topic/tubal-ligation
Risks

While major complications are uncommon after tubal ligation, there are
risks with any surgical procedure. Possible side effects include
infection and bleeding. After laparoscopy, the patient may experience
pain in the shoulder area from the carbon dioxide used during surgery,
but the technique is associated with less pain than mini-laparotomy,
as well as a faster recovery period. Mini-laparotomy results in a
higher incidence of pain, bleeding, bladder injury, and infection
compared with laparoscopy. Patients normally feel better after three
to four days of rest, and are able to resume sexual activity at that
time.

The possibility for treatment failure is very low-fewer than one in
200 women (0.4%) will become pregnant during the first year after
sterilization. Failure can happen if the cut ends of the tubes grow
back together; if the tube was not completely cut or blocked off; if a
plastic clip or rubber band has loosened or come off; or if the woman
was already pregnant at the time of surgery.

Normal Results

After having her tubes tied, a woman does not need to use any form of
birth control to avoid pregnancy. Tubal ligation is almost 100%
effective for the prevention of conception.

Morbidity and Mortality Rates

About 1-4% of patients experience complications following tubal
ligation. There is a low risk (less than 1%, or seven per 1,000
procedures) of a later ectopic pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancy is a
condition in which the fertilized egg implants in a place other than
the uterus, usually in one of the fallopian tubes. Ectopic pregnancies
are more likely to happen in younger women, and in women whose tubes
were closed off by electrocoagulation.

Rarely, death may occur as a complication of general anesthesia if a
major blood vessel is cut. The mortality rate of tubal ligation is
about four in 100,000 sterilizations.

Alternatives

There are numerous options available to women who wish to prevent
pregnancy. Oral contraceptives are the second most common form of
contraception-the first being female sterilization-and have a success
rate of 95-99.5%. Other methods of preventing pregnancy include
vasectomy (99.9% effective) for the male partner; the male condom (86-
97% effective); the diaphragm or cervical cap (80-94% effective); the
female condom (80-95% effective); and abstinence.

See also Vasectomy.

On Apr 8, 7:37 pm, "Gini" wrote:

And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.

OK, we're using Gina Knows Proof. The only cases that matter are the
women Gina Knows.

I know of women who have died and have had very, very serious
complications from pills and IUDs. I saw a woman dying from septic
shock caused by her in the arm hormone implants.

therefore, all women are harmed, since my sample says so.

This is why it's best to do some research, GiniWini.

On Apr 8, 7:37 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.

==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.

As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.

==
G So, how is it that a man would impregnate a sterilized woman?
==
.......................... no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.

==
And you know this how? Come to think of it, I don't know any women who have
died from a tubal.
Heh, perhaps I'm running with a different crowd.

And more research . . ..
Intraoperative complications such as:

Unintended, unplanned major surgery or laparotomy due to a problem
during the tubal ligation procedure, This complication occurs at a
rate of approximately 0.9 per 100 tubal ligation procedures.

Blood transfusions

A life-threatening event

Death

Postoperative complications include those that occur intraoperatively,
as well as:

Febrile morbidity

Rehospitalization

Death caused by a complication that occurs up to 42 days of your tubal
ligation surgery.

"elizabeth" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of society
must support.

==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.

As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.
And since vasectomies are a couple of orders of magnitude CHEAPER than
tubals, and since vasectomies are at least an order of magnitude MORE
EFFECTIVE THAN TUBALS, it's far more cost effective to snip the men,
especially when you factor in the cost of medical complications of
tubals . . . tubals do kill women, but no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.

Oh for goodness sake, grow up!! If a woman is banging out a ******* a year,
by a different man each time, she should have her plumbing removed so she
can't bring any more children into the world that she has no intention of
ever supporting.

If a man is reepopulating a small city with his bedroom antice, he should be
similarly rendered sterile.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own sexual behavior. And
setting up a system where woman bears child, and dad pays for 18-22 years is
NOT effective. 50/50 joint custody with both parents being required to work
to support the child their 50% of the time would be far more realistic.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"elizabeth" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote
.................
Letting your child live in poverty means you are the sort of
heartless
asshole who should be castrated, because we don't need
more irresponsible assholes breeding children that the rest of
society
must support.

==
Indeed. Sterilize all welfare women of childbearing age.

As long as you sterilize all the men impregnating them, fine.
And since vasectomies are a couple of orders of magnitude CHEAPER than
tubals, and since vasectomies are at least an order of magnitude MORE
EFFECTIVE THAN TUBALS, it's far more cost effective to snip the men,
especially when you factor in the cost of medical complications of
tubals . . . tubals do kill women, but no man has ever died from a
vasectomy.

Oh for goodness sake, grow up!! If a woman is banging out a ******* a
year,
by a different man each time, she should have her plumbing removed so she
can't bring any more children into the world that she has no intention of
ever supporting.

If a man is reepopulating a small city with his bedroom antice, he should
be
similarly rendered sterile.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own sexual behavior. And
setting up a system where woman bears child, and dad pays for 18-22 years
is
NOT effective. 50/50 joint custody with both parents being required to
work
to support the child their 50% of the time would be far more realistic.

Not to mention FAIR to everyone involved! Something the "family court" will
have NOTHING to do with. Could you imagine the public outcry if they enacted
such a principle? They say "replace fathers for children with free money to
mothers". I say, "replace free money to mothers with fathers for children"!