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Child Support Guidelines are UNFAIR! Lets join together to fight them!



 
 
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  #111  
Old September 9th 05, 02:49 AM
SpiderHam77
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Elaborate on planning. Well it's hard to give an exact bullet list
as you have asked for. As each and every senario is differnet from the
next. And all have to be judged in such a manor.

My planning started the day we started living together. I hired 2
lawyers, from 2 different law firms, 1 for her. 1 for me. And we spent
an afternoon, at my expense to draw out a Prenup. In it was listed
everything from the finicial ends, right down to custody arrangments.

I had it put right into an agreement she signed, under the advisement
of a lawyer, that specifically stated that custody of any children as
result of our marriage would be joint, unless one person opted out of
the arrangment, or could be proved to be harmful to the childs well
being, leaving the remaining parent with sole.

As I had no criminal convictions against me walking into court.
There was no reason to determine me a threat to the child. Also
immediatly after deciding the idea of a seperation with my Ex, I walked
straight down to the nearest court, the day of, and filed for immediate
custody, and visitation until the matter could be brought to court.
Not that I was worried I would not have access to him, but I wanted to
ensure the was a paper trail to show I was doing everything in my power
from the get go, to gain custody of my child. And not waiting till a
month or 2 after the fact.

My Ex also tried to have the Prenup thrown out of court. But her
lawyer advised her against the idea because she was under counsel at
the time of signing, and advised that this was binding agreement. So
she dropped it.

But essentially by planning. Take the time, think about things.
Figure out the worse case senario you can think of, and then plan for
it. I did all this prior to my son even being concieved.

As result going into court I was able to show the judge I was a
responsible person, and cared about the well being of my child, and
wanted to ensure I was involved in his life as much as humanally
possible.

Now in my specific case, the gods of custody smiled upon me, and she
left the country. But I was prepared walking into court. And thought
long and hard about alot of this stuff. Again not rocket science.
Just plain old fashion thinking things through.

SpiderHam77

  #112  
Old September 9th 05, 03:08 AM
Kenneth S.
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"SpiderHam77" wrote in message
oups.com...
Elaborate on planning. Well it's hard to give an exact bullet list
as you have asked for. As each and every senario is differnet from the
next. And all have to be judged in such a manor.

My planning started the day we started living together. I hired 2
lawyers, from 2 different law firms, 1 for her. 1 for me. And we spent
an afternoon, at my expense to draw out a Prenup. In it was listed
everything from the finicial ends, right down to custody arrangments.

I had it put right into an agreement she signed, under the advisement
of a lawyer, that specifically stated that custody of any children as
result of our marriage would be joint, unless one person opted out of
the arrangment, or could be proved to be harmful to the childs well
being, leaving the remaining parent with sole.

As I had no criminal convictions against me walking into court.
There was no reason to determine me a threat to the child. Also
immediatly after deciding the idea of a seperation with my Ex, I walked
straight down to the nearest court, the day of, and filed for immediate
custody, and visitation until the matter could be brought to court.
Not that I was worried I would not have access to him, but I wanted to
ensure the was a paper trail to show I was doing everything in my power
from the get go, to gain custody of my child. And not waiting till a
month or 2 after the fact.

My Ex also tried to have the Prenup thrown out of court. But her
lawyer advised her against the idea because she was under counsel at
the time of signing, and advised that this was binding agreement. So
she dropped it.

But essentially by planning. Take the time, think about things.
Figure out the worse case senario you can think of, and then plan for
it. I did all this prior to my son even being concieved.

As result going into court I was able to show the judge I was a
responsible person, and cared about the well being of my child, and
wanted to ensure I was involved in his life as much as humanally
possible.

Now in my specific case, the gods of custody smiled upon me, and she
left the country. But I was prepared walking into court. And thought
long and hard about alot of this stuff. Again not rocket science.
Just plain old fashion thinking things through.

SpiderHam77


I'm very surprised that everything turned out the way you say it did.
My own view is that it's very easy for judges in the U.S. to ignore the
provisions of a prenuptial contract, particularly as they relate to custody
of children. Judges simply say the contract provisions are
"unconscionable," or they say that custody is always a matter for the courts
to decide, and cannot be pre-ordained in a prenuptial contract.

As a practical matter, I think the best assumption for men to make is
that judges and the court system are determined to protect their monopoly on
issues related to marriage and the family. This whole ramshackle system is
shored up by the ability of judges and the courts to PREVENT people from
making their own private, individual arrangements about what will be the
conditions of their relationships. I don't think it would be prudent for
any man to drew conclusions from what you say was your experience.

Marriage should be privatized, and the conditions should be established
before an individual couple enters into a relationship. But the position of
the judges and the courts in the U.S. is like that of a monopolist who has
been given -- or who has simply taken -- the ability to strangle any
competitors that could challenge his monopoly.


  #113  
Old September 9th 05, 11:15 AM
Henry
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"Kenneth S." wrote in
:

I'm very surprised that everything turned out the way you say it
did.
My own view is that it's very easy for judges in the U.S. to ignore
the provisions of a prenuptial contract, particularly as they relate
to custody of children. Judges simply say the contract provisions are
"unconscionable," or they say that custody is always a matter for the


I am surprised too. In my entire three year battle, each judge I was up
against would not allow any type of contract that did not address the
immediate. Therefore I could not, say, get an agreement that terminated
child support in two years. Or have 50-50 joint custody in 1 year. They
would not allow any future conditions... basically signing away the
future rights of the child. I could not even imagine walking into a
court with a 10 year old pre-nup about joint custody and the judge
agreeing to it.

In my experience, the only way any type of pre-nup or future agreement
works is if both parties agree to it and follow it, unconditionally and
uncontested. If one party does not, you are headed to court. And you may
not win. I know. I have been there. For example, lets say we write a
contract that says today we are 70/30 and in 8 months we go 60/40. In 8
months the ex could easily state all kinds of conditions, status quo,
harm to the child, disruppting routines, etc., and the judge looks at
all this, even if you have a contract. Yes, they do put weight to those
contracts, but it is not 100% sure. Trust me. I had signed joint
custody. As soon as the ex didn't like one little thing, we were in
court fighting over custody, for three years. Same thing with access. I
had all kinds of signed contracts. As soon as the ex didn't like the
sharing agreement, and refused to update as per the contract, back to
court we go. I'm still not done.

Your ex walked away. That us a huge when it comes to court battles. If
she stayed and faught you, things could be a lot different.

H.

  #114  
Old September 10th 05, 08:03 PM
SpiderHam77
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Well one of the first things to consider in my case is that we are
not in the US. I think in some ways the laws surrounding custody and
child support are alot different up here. As somethings like child
support have been regulated, and essentially in most cases you can sit
down on your own and calculate it.

As a matter of fact things like custody are more often settled out of
court by a mediator, assigned by the courts. And it if it can not be
determined in mediation, then when it does go to court to be decided,
the mediator also provides a report on their findings.

So usually by the time it gets to court alot of the he said, she said
type thing is taken care of and the judge can work with the basics
more, the well being of the child.

And I don't know to much down there in the US, but I know here in
Canada there is a huge trend to start to favour Joint Custody, and
fathers are being considered at par at the table.

SpiderHam77

  #115  
Old September 12th 05, 12:35 AM
Henry
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Posts: n/a
Default

"SpiderHam77" wrote in news:1126379032.824037.18380
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

Well one of the first things to consider in my case is that we are
not in the US. I think in some ways the laws surrounding custody and
child support are alot different up here. As somethings like child
support have been regulated, and essentially in most cases you can sit
down on your own and calculate it.

As a matter of fact things like custody are more often settled out of
court by a mediator, assigned by the courts. And it if it can not be
determined in mediation, then when it does go to court to be decided,
the mediator also provides a report on their findings.

So usually by the time it gets to court alot of the he said, she said
type thing is taken care of and the judge can work with the basics
more, the well being of the child.

And I don't know to much down there in the US, but I know here in
Canada there is a huge trend to start to favour Joint Custody, and
fathers are being considered at par at the table.


I live on Canada (in Ontario). Not a huge trend here. You have to fight and
fight and fight. Or, you may get joint custody and be the every other
weekend Dad (joint custody is not equal to joint access). I have seen my
share of judges and share of courtrooms. So biased against the Dad it is
not even funny.

H.
  #116  
Old September 12th 05, 12:37 AM
Henry
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Posts: n/a
Default

"SpiderHam77" wrote in
oups.com:

Elaborate on planning. Well it's hard to give an exact bullet list
as you have asked for. As each and every senario is differnet from the
next. And all have to be judged in such a manor.
My planning started the day we started living together. I hired 2
lawyers, from 2 different law firms, 1 for her. 1 for me. And we spent
an afternoon, at my expense to draw out a Prenup. In it was listed
everything from the finicial ends, right down to custody arrangments.
I had it put right into an agreement she signed, under the advisement
of a lawyer, that specifically stated that custody of any children as
result of our marriage would be joint, unless one person opted out of
the arrangment, or could be proved to be harmful to the childs well
being, leaving the remaining parent with sole.


In Ontario, you cannot pre-nup custody and access. It is right in the Law.

Ontario Family Law:

52. (1) Two persons who are married to each other or intend to marry may
enter into an agreement in which they agree on their respective rights and
obligations under the marriage or on separation, on the annulment or
dissolution of the marriage or on death, including,
(a) ownership in or division of property;
(b) support obligations;
(c) the right to direct the education and moral training of their children,
but not the right to custody of or access to their children; and
(d) any other matter in the settlement of their affairs. R.S.O. 1990, c.
F.3, s. 52 (1); 2005, c. 5, s. 27 (25).

H.
 




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