Gee, wouldn't a good hard spanking be easier and more effective?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html

Parenting
What can parent do when your little angel turns into the Artful Dodger?


Let's say your 13-year-old daughter spent the night with a friend and
then went to the mall.

You've come home for a power nap when the phone rings. It's your
daughter's girlfriend's mother explaining that your daughter and hers
were caught shoplifting lipstick. You're horrified. How could this be?
Your daughter knows better. What are you going to do? According to
Shoplifters Alternative, a national nonprofit research and
rehabilitation program, there are about 23 million shoplifters in our
nation today, one-fourth of whom are teenagers. But when it's your
child, statistics don't matter. You feel you've failed as a parent and
your child is doomed to an adolescent life of delinquency.

If your child shoplifts, your hope is that she'll be caught. The
embarrassment and shame of being caught usually ends the novice shoplifter.

If, however, your child is so skilled at pilfering that a store's
surveillance system fails to detect her, but you see items in her
bedroom that you know she can't afford, then it's up to you to question
her. You'll also need to monitor what items she brings home with the
hope of catching her red-handed. Then she'll be forced to 'fess up to
her misdeeds, return the stolen items and suffer the legal consequences,
which should include some form of community service.

When your child is caught, avoid lecturing; doing so only makes the
situation worse. The most you need to say is, "I'm extremely
disappointed; you know that it is wrong to steal. I expect that you'll
never do it again. Shoplifting is totally unacceptable within our family
and this community."

If you have a child who is getting to the age where he or she might be
shopping without you, be proactive and have a shoplifting talk about the
temptation your child might encounter. Be engaging in this conversation;
you are not putting ideas in your child's head — such thoughts cross
even the most moral child's minds. One of your roles is to prepare your
children for the new environments they'll encounter. Going shopping
without you is one such new experience. So when your child goes off to
the mall alone or with a friend, that's the time to tell her about store
security systems, the legal consequences of stealing and that it's wrong
to take something that belongs to another, even if it's a large
merchandise corporation. Many teens justify shoplifting because they
believe that the store is a big impersonal corporation with lots of
merchandise, therefore, it will never miss a little something taken by them.

Some teens make shoplifting a habit. They're rebellious and
thrill-seeking or want things that they can't afford and that their
parents can't or won't buy them. They want something but don't have the
maturity to develop a plan to earn the needed money. Your job is to
teach your children to resist the immature notion of instant
gratification which comes from shoplifting.

If shoplifting is a persistent problem with your child, it's definitely
time to seek professional help. You alone won't be able to punish the
inclination to steal away.

Jan Faull, a specialist in child development and behavior, answers
questions of general interest in her column. You can e-mail her at
or write to: Jan Faull, c/o Families, The Seattle
Times, P.O. Box 70, Seattle, WA 98111.

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Easier, of course. More effective, maybe just for some days. In the lng
run, it'd make things kindaworse. If a kid is shoplifting,
professiomnal help is necessary. There's something much wrong with the
whole family anda the parents must find the reasons why their kid is
shoplfting. Otherwise, the kid will keep shoplifting whenever he or she
thinks he wont be caught

Amanda


0:- wrote:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html

Parenting
What can parent do when your little angel turns into the Artful Dodger?


Let's say your 13-year-old daughter spent the night with a friend and
then went to the mall.

You've come home for a power nap when the phone rings. It's your
daughter's girlfriend's mother explaining that your daughter and hers
were caught shoplifting lipstick. You're horrified. How could this be?
Your daughter knows better. What are you going to do? According to
Shoplifters Alternative, a national nonprofit research and
rehabilitation program, there are about 23 million shoplifters in our
nation today, one-fourth of whom are teenagers. But when it's your
child, statistics don't matter. You feel you've failed as a parent and
your child is doomed to an adolescent life of delinquency.

If your child shoplifts, your hope is that she'll be caught. The
embarrassment and shame of being caught usually ends the novice shoplifter.

If, however, your child is so skilled at pilfering that a store's
surveillance system fails to detect her, but you see items in her
bedroom that you know she can't afford, then it's up to you to question
her. You'll also need to monitor what items she brings home with the
hope of catching her red-handed. Then she'll be forced to 'fess up to
her misdeeds, return the stolen items and suffer the legal consequences,
which should include some form of community service.

When your child is caught, avoid lecturing; doing so only makes the
situation worse. The most you need to say is, "I'm extremely
disappointed; you know that it is wrong to steal. I expect that you'll
never do it again. Shoplifting is totally unacceptable within our family
and this community."

If you have a child who is getting to the age where he or she might be
shopping without you, be proactive and have a shoplifting talk about the
temptation your child might encounter. Be engaging in this conversation;
you are not putting ideas in your child's head - such thoughts cross
even the most moral child's minds. One of your roles is to prepare your
children for the new environments they'll encounter. Going shopping
without you is one such new experience. So when your child goes off to
the mall alone or with a friend, that's the time to tell her about store
security systems, the legal consequences of stealing and that it's wrong
to take something that belongs to another, even if it's a large
merchandise corporation. Many teens justify shoplifting because they
believe that the store is a big impersonal corporation with lots of
merchandise, therefore, it will never miss a little something taken by them.

Some teens make shoplifting a habit. They're rebellious and
thrill-seeking or want things that they can't afford and that their
parents can't or won't buy them. They want something but don't have the
maturity to develop a plan to earn the needed money. Your job is to
teach your children to resist the immature notion of instant
gratification which comes from shoplifting.

If shoplifting is a persistent problem with your child, it's definitely
time to seek professional help. You alone won't be able to punish the
inclination to steal away.

Jan Faull, a specialist in child development and behavior, answers
questions of general interest in her column. You can e-mail her at
or write to: Jan Faull, c/o Families, The Seattle
Times, P.O. Box 70, Seattle, WA 98111.

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Amanda wrote:
Easier, of course. More effective, maybe just for some days. In the lng
run, it'd make things kindaworse. If a kid is shoplifting,
professiomnal help is necessary. There's something much wrong with the
whole family anda the parents must find the reasons why their kid is
shoplfting.

Actually, I agree with the article, that this is not an uncommon problem
and really doesn't indicate a serious "family" problem; as in the
problem originating from family dysfunction.

Otherwise, the kid will keep shoplifting whenever he or she
thinks he wont be caught

I think the article had advice about that part of the problem.

When I was a little kid parents that caught their child shop lifting
usually marched them to the store, paid for the merchandise, and had the
store people 'talk' with them. Some even made the child pay a penalty.

I have this odd sensation when I use my push-broom to clean out the
leaves and pine needles in my carport -- a kind of flashback including
the taste of a Baby Ruth candy bar, and a view of a push-broom and those
long wooden isles in Mr. Green's drugstore down the road from my house
when I was about 6.

I wonder why?

R R R R R

Fact is these days if you turn your kid in he or she may well end up
with a juvenile record. Something to consider.

Stores have taken a hard stand on this issue.

Kane

PS I still don't like Baby Ruth Candy Bars. 0:-



Amanda


0:- wrote:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html

Parenting
What can parent do when your little angel turns into the Artful Dodger?


Let's say your 13-year-old daughter spent the night with a friend and
then went to the mall.

You've come home for a power nap when the phone rings. It's your
daughter's girlfriend's mother explaining that your daughter and hers
were caught shoplifting lipstick. You're horrified. How could this be?
Your daughter knows better. What are you going to do? According to
Shoplifters Alternative, a national nonprofit research and
rehabilitation program, there are about 23 million shoplifters in our
nation today, one-fourth of whom are teenagers. But when it's your
child, statistics don't matter. You feel you've failed as a parent and
your child is doomed to an adolescent life of delinquency.

If your child shoplifts, your hope is that she'll be caught. The
embarrassment and shame of being caught usually ends the novice shoplifter.

If, however, your child is so skilled at pilfering that a store's
surveillance system fails to detect her, but you see items in her
bedroom that you know she can't afford, then it's up to you to question
her. You'll also need to monitor what items she brings home with the
hope of catching her red-handed. Then she'll be forced to 'fess up to
her misdeeds, return the stolen items and suffer the legal consequences,
which should include some form of community service.

When your child is caught, avoid lecturing; doing so only makes the
situation worse. The most you need to say is, "I'm extremely
disappointed; you know that it is wrong to steal. I expect that you'll
never do it again. Shoplifting is totally unacceptable within our family
and this community."

If you have a child who is getting to the age where he or she might be
shopping without you, be proactive and have a shoplifting talk about the
temptation your child might encounter. Be engaging in this conversation;
you are not putting ideas in your child's head - such thoughts cross
even the most moral child's minds. One of your roles is to prepare your
children for the new environments they'll encounter. Going shopping
without you is one such new experience. So when your child goes off to
the mall alone or with a friend, that's the time to tell her about store
security systems, the legal consequences of stealing and that it's wrong
to take something that belongs to another, even if it's a large
merchandise corporation. Many teens justify shoplifting because they
believe that the store is a big impersonal corporation with lots of
merchandise, therefore, it will never miss a little something taken by them.

Some teens make shoplifting a habit. They're rebellious and
thrill-seeking or want things that they can't afford and that their
parents can't or won't buy them. They want something but don't have the
maturity to develop a plan to earn the needed money. Your job is to
teach your children to resist the immature notion of instant
gratification which comes from shoplifting.

If shoplifting is a persistent problem with your child, it's definitely
time to seek professional help. You alone won't be able to punish the
inclination to steal away.

Jan Faull, a specialist in child development and behavior, answers
questions of general interest in her column. You can e-mail her at
or write to: Jan Faull, c/o Families, The Seattle
Times, P.O. Box 70, Seattle, WA 98111.

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Not true. Actually, it can be effective (and optimal) in the long run
too. Check out:
"Larzelere RE. Combining love and limits in authoritative parenting. In:
Westman JC, editor. Parenthood in America. Madison, WI: University of Wisconsin
Press, 2001:81-89."

Here is an excerpt:

"In contrast to the common practice of pitting love and limits against
each other, several research programs have shown that optimal parenting
combines the two. This paper outlines a conditional sequence model of
optimal disciplinary responses and shows its consistency with a wide range
of research. The model suggests that optimal disciplinary responses begin
with less severe tactics, such as reasoning, but proceed to firmer
disciplinary tactics when the initial tactic achieves neither compliance
nor an acceptable compromise. The firmer tactics can be nonphysical
punishment initially with nonabusive physical punishment reserved as a
back-up for the nonphysical punishment. This is consistent with many
studies showing that a combination of reasoning and punishment is more
effective than either one alone and with new evidence that this sequence
enhances the effectiveness of milder disciplinary tactics with
preschoolers."

Doan


On 23 Jul 2006, Amanda wrote:

Easier, of course. More effective, maybe just for some days. In the lng
run, it'd make things kindaworse. If a kid is shoplifting,
professiomnal help is necessary. There's something much wrong with the
whole family anda the parents must find the reasons why their kid is
shoplfting. Otherwise, the kid will keep shoplifting whenever he or she
thinks he wont be caught

Amanda


0:- wrote:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html

Parenting
What can parent do when your little angel turns into the Artful Dodger?


Let's say your 13-year-old daughter spent the night with a friend and
then went to the mall.

You've come home for a power nap when the phone rings. It's your
daughter's girlfriend's mother explaining that your daughter and hers
were caught shoplifting lipstick. You're horrified. How could this be?
Your daughter knows better. What are you going to do? According to
Shoplifters Alternative, a national nonprofit research and
rehabilitation program, there are about 23 million shoplifters in our
nation today, one-fourth of whom are teenagers. But when it's your
child, statistics don't matter. You feel you've failed as a parent and
your child is doomed to an adolescent life of delinquency.

If your child shoplifts, your hope is that she'll be caught. The
embarrassment and shame of being caught usually ends the novice shoplifter.

If, however, your child is so skilled at pilfering that a store's
surveillance system fails to detect her, but you see items in her
bedroom that you know she can't afford, then it's up to you to question
her. You'll also need to monitor what items she brings home with the
hope of catching her red-handed. Then she'll be forced to 'fess up to
her misdeeds, return the stolen items and suffer the legal consequences,
which should include some form of community service.

When your child is caught, avoid lecturing; doing so only makes the
situation worse. The most you need to say is, "I'm extremely
disappointed; you know that it is wrong to steal. I expect that you'll
never do it again. Shoplifting is totally unacceptable within our family
and this community."

If you have a child who is getting to the age where he or she might be
shopping without you, be proactive and have a shoplifting talk about the
temptation your child might encounter. Be engaging in this conversation;
you are not putting ideas in your child's head - such thoughts cross
even the most moral child's minds. One of your roles is to prepare your
children for the new environments they'll encounter. Going shopping
without you is one such new experience. So when your child goes off to
the mall alone or with a friend, that's the time to tell her about store
security systems, the legal consequences of stealing and that it's wrong
to take something that belongs to another, even if it's a large
merchandise corporation. Many teens justify shoplifting because they
believe that the store is a big impersonal corporation with lots of
merchandise, therefore, it will never miss a little something taken by them.

Some teens make shoplifting a habit. They're rebellious and
thrill-seeking or want things that they can't afford and that their
parents can't or won't buy them. They want something but don't have the
maturity to develop a plan to earn the needed money. Your job is to
teach your children to resist the immature notion of instant
gratification which comes from shoplifting.

If shoplifting is a persistent problem with your child, it's definitely
time to seek professional help. You alone won't be able to punish the
inclination to steal away.

Jan Faull, a specialist in child development and behavior, answers
questions of general interest in her column. You can e-mail her at
or write to: Jan Faull, c/o Families, The Seattle
Times, P.O. Box 70, Seattle, WA 98111.

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Amanda,

Spanking is always easier, as you said. Effectiveness may last for a
few days, in the spanker's presence.

I loved your shoplifting example. Professional help is not always
necessary, however, unless it becomes a chronic problem. I have a great
shoplifting story:

When my oldest daughter was between 8-10 years, she shoplifted, once.
My husband and I were at Mart, buying school clothes and supplies. Fran
saw a Reebok key chain that she desperately wanted. She had enough
allowance money to cover the purchase, but she didn't want to spend her
money. I thought the matter was settled.

Later that night I was doing laundry and found the key chain in her
pocket. I showed her they key chain and asked how it came to be in her
pocket. She became angry and said, "The key chain just fell there!" I
told her she had two choices because she didn't own the key chain. She
could go back to K-mart with me and pay for the key chain with her
money, or she could talk to the security officers and admit that she
took the key chain without paying. I avoided the word "stealing."

She choose the security officers. They were wonderful with her, took
her key chain with the tiny Reebok shoe, and talked to her about the
importance of theft.

She never shoplifted again. She's now 27. And, I never spanked her!

LaVonne



Amanda wrote:

Easier, of course. More effective, maybe just for some days. In the lng
run, it'd make things kindaworse. If a kid is shoplifting,
professiomnal help is necessary. There's something much wrong with the
whole family anda the parents must find the reasons why their kid is
shoplfting. Otherwise, the kid will keep shoplifting whenever he or she
thinks he wont be caught

Amanda


0:- wrote:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html

Parenting
What can parent do when your little angel turns into the Artful Dodger?


Let's say your 13-year-old daughter spent the night with a friend and
then went to the mall.

You've come home for a power nap when the phone rings. It's your
daughter's girlfriend's mother explaining that your daughter and hers
were caught shoplifting lipstick. You're horrified. How could this be?
Your daughter knows better. What are you going to do? According to
Shoplifters Alternative, a national nonprofit research and
rehabilitation program, there are about 23 million shoplifters in our
nation today, one-fourth of whom are teenagers. But when it's your
child, statistics don't matter. You feel you've failed as a parent and
your child is doomed to an adolescent life of delinquency.

If your child shoplifts, your hope is that she'll be caught. The
embarrassment and shame of being caught usually ends the novice shoplifter.

If, however, your child is so skilled at pilfering that a store's
surveillance system fails to detect her, but you see items in her
bedroom that you know she can't afford, then it's up to you to question
her. You'll also need to monitor what items she brings home with the
hope of catching her red-handed. Then she'll be forced to 'fess up to
her misdeeds, return the stolen items and suffer the legal consequences,
which should include some form of community service.

When your child is caught, avoid lecturing; doing so only makes the
situation worse. The most you need to say is, "I'm extremely
disappointed; you know that it is wrong to steal. I expect that you'll
never do it again. Shoplifting is totally unacceptable within our family
and this community."

If you have a child who is getting to the age where he or she might be
shopping without you, be proactive and have a shoplifting talk about the
temptation your child might encounter. Be engaging in this conversation;
you are not putting ideas in your child's head - such thoughts cross
even the most moral child's minds. One of your roles is to prepare your
children for the new environments they'll encounter. Going shopping
without you is one such new experience. So when your child goes off to
the mall alone or with a friend, that's the time to tell her about store
security systems, the legal consequences of stealing and that it's wrong
to take something that belongs to another, even if it's a large
merchandise corporation. Many teens justify shoplifting because they
believe that the store is a big impersonal corporation with lots of
merchandise, therefore, it will never miss a little something taken by them.

Some teens make shoplifting a habit. They're rebellious and
thrill-seeking or want things that they can't afford and that their
parents can't or won't buy them. They want something but don't have the
maturity to develop a plan to earn the needed money. Your job is to
teach your children to resist the immature notion of instant
gratification which comes from shoplifting.

If shoplifting is a persistent problem with your child, it's definitely
time to seek professional help. You alone won't be able to punish the
inclination to steal away.

Jan Faull, a specialist in child development and behavior, answers
questions of general interest in her column. You can e-mail her at
or write to: Jan Faull, c/o Families, The Seattle
Times, P.O. Box 70, Seattle, WA 98111.

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Amanda,

Spanking is always easier, as you said. Effectiveness may last for a
few days, in the spanker's presence.

I loved your shoplifting example. Professional help is not always
necessary, however, unless it becomes a chronic problem. I have a great
shoplifting story:

When my oldest daughter was between 8-10 years, she shoplifted, once. My
husband and I were at Mart, buying school clothes and supplies. Fran
saw a Reebok key chain that she desperately wanted. She had enough
allowance money to cover the purchase, but she didn't want to spend her
money. I thought the matter was settled.

Later that night I was doing laundry and found the key chain in her
pocket. I showed her they key chain and asked how it came to be in her
pocket. She became angry and said, "The key chain just fell there!" I
told her she had two choices because she didn't own the key chain. She
could go back to K-mart with me and pay for the key chain with her
money, or she could talk to the security officers and admit that she
took the key chain without paying. I avoided the word "stealing."

She choose the security officers. They were wonderful with her, took
her key chain with the tiny Reebok shoe, and talked to her about the
importance of theft.

She never shoplifted again. She's now 27. And, I never spanked her!

LaVonne

But, but, but...look at the time you wasted, and the ideas you put in
her head about how to con store security.

Now with a simple but hard spanking she'd have learned her lesson too,
wouldn't she?

I mean look at all the non-spanked children that end up in prison.

And all the wonderfully honest among us that were spanked. Right?

Politicians, sports stars, business men. And more, surely.

0;-







Amanda wrote:

Easier, of course. More effective, maybe just for some days. In the lng
run, it'd make things kindaworse. If a kid is shoplifting,
professiomnal help is necessary. There's something much wrong with the
whole family anda the parents must find the reasons why their kid is
shoplfting. Otherwise, the kid will keep shoplifting whenever he or she
thinks he wont be caught

Amanda


0:- wrote:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html

Parenting
What can parent do when your little angel turns into the Artful Dodger?


Let's say your 13-year-old daughter spent the night with a friend and
then went to the mall.

You've come home for a power nap when the phone rings. It's your
daughter's girlfriend's mother explaining that your daughter and hers
were caught shoplifting lipstick. You're horrified. How could this be?
Your daughter knows better. What are you going to do? According to
Shoplifters Alternative, a national nonprofit research and
rehabilitation program, there are about 23 million shoplifters in our
nation today, one-fourth of whom are teenagers. But when it's your
child, statistics don't matter. You feel you've failed as a parent and
your child is doomed to an adolescent life of delinquency.

If your child shoplifts, your hope is that she'll be caught. The
embarrassment and shame of being caught usually ends the novice
shoplifter.

If, however, your child is so skilled at pilfering that a store's
surveillance system fails to detect her, but you see items in her
bedroom that you know she can't afford, then it's up to you to question
her. You'll also need to monitor what items she brings home with the
hope of catching her red-handed. Then she'll be forced to 'fess up to
her misdeeds, return the stolen items and suffer the legal consequences,
which should include some form of community service.

When your child is caught, avoid lecturing; doing so only makes the
situation worse. The most you need to say is, "I'm extremely
disappointed; you know that it is wrong to steal. I expect that you'll
never do it again. Shoplifting is totally unacceptable within our family
and this community."

If you have a child who is getting to the age where he or she might be
shopping without you, be proactive and have a shoplifting talk about the
temptation your child might encounter. Be engaging in this conversation;
you are not putting ideas in your child's head - such thoughts cross
even the most moral child's minds. One of your roles is to prepare your
children for the new environments they'll encounter. Going shopping
without you is one such new experience. So when your child goes off to
the mall alone or with a friend, that's the time to tell her about store
security systems, the legal consequences of stealing and that it's wrong
to take something that belongs to another, even if it's a large
merchandise corporation. Many teens justify shoplifting because they
believe that the store is a big impersonal corporation with lots of
merchandise, therefore, it will never miss a little something taken
by them.

Some teens make shoplifting a habit. They're rebellious and
thrill-seeking or want things that they can't afford and that their
parents can't or won't buy them. They want something but don't have the
maturity to develop a plan to earn the needed money. Your job is to
teach your children to resist the immature notion of instant
gratification which comes from shoplifting.

If shoplifting is a persistent problem with your child, it's definitely
time to seek professional help. You alone won't be able to punish the
inclination to steal away.

Jan Faull, a specialist in child development and behavior, answers
questions of general interest in her column. You can e-mail her at
or write to: Jan Faull, c/o Families, The Seattle
Times, P.O. Box 70, Seattle, WA 98111.

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)






--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

LaVonne remembers being spanked so much she is crusading to stop
spanking.

Kane remembers sweeping out a store. Oh the trauma.

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, 0:- wrote:

Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Amanda,

Spanking is always easier, as you said. Effectiveness may last for a
few days, in the spanker's presence.

I loved your shoplifting example. Professional help is not always
necessary, however, unless it becomes a chronic problem. I have a great
shoplifting story:

When my oldest daughter was between 8-10 years, she shoplifted, once. My
husband and I were at Mart, buying school clothes and supplies. Fran
saw a Reebok key chain that she desperately wanted. She had enough
allowance money to cover the purchase, but she didn't want to spend her
money. I thought the matter was settled.

Later that night I was doing laundry and found the key chain in her
pocket. I showed her they key chain and asked how it came to be in her
pocket. She became angry and said, "The key chain just fell there!" I
told her she had two choices because she didn't own the key chain. She
could go back to K-mart with me and pay for the key chain with her
money, or she could talk to the security officers and admit that she
took the key chain without paying. I avoided the word "stealing."

She choose the security officers. They were wonderful with her, took
her key chain with the tiny Reebok shoe, and talked to her about the
importance of theft.

She never shoplifted again. She's now 27. And, I never spanked her!

LaVonne

But, but, but...look at the time you wasted, and the ideas you put in
her head about how to con store security.

Yup! 8-10 years of non-spanking and her kids still didn't know that
shoplifting is wrong.

Now with a simple but hard spanking she'd have learned her lesson too,
wouldn't she?

I mean look at all the non-spanked children that end up in prison.

And all the wonderfully honest among us that were spanked. Right?

Yup! 98% of college freshmen and 95% of professional! ;-)

Politicians, sports stars, business men. And more, surely.

Yup! Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, Ted Turner, Tiger Woods....
LaVonne Carlson. ;-)
Can you name a "never-spanked" person?

AF

0;-







Amanda wrote:

Easier, of course. More effective, maybe just for some days. In the lng
run, it'd make things kindaworse. If a kid is shoplifting,
professiomnal help is necessary. There's something much wrong with the
whole family anda the parents must find the reasons why their kid is
shoplfting. Otherwise, the kid will keep shoplifting whenever he or she
thinks he wont be caught

Amanda


0:- wrote:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html

Parenting
What can parent do when your little angel turns into the Artful Dodger?


Let's say your 13-year-old daughter spent the night with a friend and
then went to the mall.

You've come home for a power nap when the phone rings. It's your
daughter's girlfriend's mother explaining that your daughter and hers
were caught shoplifting lipstick. You're horrified. How could this be?
Your daughter knows better. What are you going to do? According to
Shoplifters Alternative, a national nonprofit research and
rehabilitation program, there are about 23 million shoplifters in our
nation today, one-fourth of whom are teenagers. But when it's your
child, statistics don't matter. You feel you've failed as a parent and
your child is doomed to an adolescent life of delinquency.

If your child shoplifts, your hope is that she'll be caught. The
embarrassment and shame of being caught usually ends the novice
shoplifter.

If, however, your child is so skilled at pilfering that a store's
surveillance system fails to detect her, but you see items in her
bedroom that you know she can't afford, then it's up to you to question
her. You'll also need to monitor what items she brings home with the
hope of catching her red-handed. Then she'll be forced to 'fess up to
her misdeeds, return the stolen items and suffer the legal consequences,
which should include some form of community service.

When your child is caught, avoid lecturing; doing so only makes the
situation worse. The most you need to say is, "I'm extremely
disappointed; you know that it is wrong to steal. I expect that you'll
never do it again. Shoplifting is totally unacceptable within our family
and this community."

If you have a child who is getting to the age where he or she might be
shopping without you, be proactive and have a shoplifting talk about the
temptation your child might encounter. Be engaging in this conversation;
you are not putting ideas in your child's head - such thoughts cross
even the most moral child's minds. One of your roles is to prepare your
children for the new environments they'll encounter. Going shopping
without you is one such new experience. So when your child goes off to
the mall alone or with a friend, that's the time to tell her about store
security systems, the legal consequences of stealing and that it's wrong
to take something that belongs to another, even if it's a large
merchandise corporation. Many teens justify shoplifting because they
believe that the store is a big impersonal corporation with lots of
merchandise, therefore, it will never miss a little something taken
by them.

Some teens make shoplifting a habit. They're rebellious and
thrill-seeking or want things that they can't afford and that their
parents can't or won't buy them. They want something but don't have the
maturity to develop a plan to earn the needed money. Your job is to
teach your children to resist the immature notion of instant
gratification which comes from shoplifting.

If shoplifting is a persistent problem with your child, it's definitely
time to seek professional help. You alone won't be able to punish the
inclination to steal away.

Jan Faull, a specialist in child development and behavior, answers
questions of general interest in her column. You can e-mail her at
or write to: Jan Faull, c/o Families, The Seattle
Times, P.O. Box 70, Seattle, WA 98111.

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_faull22.html
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)






--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Greegor wrote:
LaVonne remembers being spanked so much she is crusading to stop
spanking.

Kane remembers sweeping out a store. Oh the trauma.

I wasn't spanked. No trauma. Just a simple payback to the person I stole
from. Six year olds do such things. Spanking them does not help.

Yet I learned my lesson.

And LaVonne was remembering how she raised her own daughter.

Can we assume you are out of argument and have nothing left but
harassment and innuendo?

0:-


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Doan wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, 0:- wrote:

Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Amanda,

Spanking is always easier, as you said. Effectiveness may last for a
few days, in the spanker's presence.

I loved your shoplifting example. Professional help is not always
necessary, however, unless it becomes a chronic problem. I have a great
shoplifting story:

When my oldest daughter was between 8-10 years, she shoplifted, once. My
husband and I were at Mart, buying school clothes and supplies. Fran
saw a Reebok key chain that she desperately wanted. She had enough
allowance money to cover the purchase, but she didn't want to spend her
money. I thought the matter was settled.

Later that night I was doing laundry and found the key chain in her
pocket. I showed her they key chain and asked how it came to be in her
pocket. She became angry and said, "The key chain just fell there!" I
told her she had two choices because she didn't own the key chain. She
could go back to K-mart with me and pay for the key chain with her
money, or she could talk to the security officers and admit that she
took the key chain without paying. I avoided the word "stealing."

She choose the security officers. They were wonderful with her, took
her key chain with the tiny Reebok shoe, and talked to her about the
importance of theft.

She never shoplifted again. She's now 27. And, I never spanked her!

LaVonne
But, but, but...look at the time you wasted, and the ideas you put in
her head about how to con store security.

Yup! 8-10 years of non-spanking and her kids still didn't know that
shoplifting is wrong.

Kid, stupid.

If they've never shoplifted before, as her's had not, you can assure us
that 8-10 years of spanking results in children automatically knowing
shoplifting is wrong?

Hell, you are much older and you still haven't learned lying is wrong,
monkeyboy. Or that you have no grasp of logic.

The lessons come when they come, Greg, and not before. I was six, her's
was older.

I guess I was precocious. 0:-

Now with a simple but hard spanking she'd have learned her lesson too,
wouldn't she?

I mean look at all the non-spanked children that end up in prison.

And all the wonderfully honest among us that were spanked. Right?

Yup! 98% of college freshmen and 95% of professional! ;-)

This assures us they were wonderfully honest role models? Really?

They were unlikely to be telling the truth, Greg. Being spanked used to
be a badge of pride. Comes with trying to overcome feelings of being
"different." "Compensation," we call it.

It's become much less so since those surveys, by self reporting, were
done.

Politicians, sports stars, business men. And more, surely.

Yup! Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, Ted Turner, Tiger Woods....
LaVonne Carlson. ;-)

I don't recall seeing LaVonne's name anywhere but here. Are you
hallucinating again? Or is she in fact famous.

Can you name a "never-spanked" person?

Sure. A great many. But I'm not at liberty to share other's stories here
that are private persons. Nor their names.

And so far as I know, people don't feel inclined to discuss not being
spanked. It seems, I would suppose, kind of pointless and might be seen
as trying to appear superior.

They are, of course, and that's why they are sensitive to other people's
feelings.

They lack the urge to hurt others.

You seem up on it though. Got any more insults, monkeyboy?

You git what you give, fool. If I so chose. YOU have no choice in the
matter. 0:-

What's far more important, monkeyboy, are the Infamous people that were
spanked.

Or that were un-spanked. I can provide you the former, but oddly, not
the latter. 0:-

No any non-spanked infamous people, monkeyboy?

Then there's another thought, and I believe you might have brought this
up yourself.

Would you say that Jesus was spanked?

If so, on what proof would you claim it?


AF





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)