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This cord-clamping thing



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 28th 05, 05:02 PM
Mogget
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In message , Jo
writes

I think with the active management of 3rd stage, you 'have to' clamp
early so that blood from the placenta isn't *forced* into the baby with
the unnaturally large contraction that the synthetic oxytocin causes to
detatch the placenta. That's the explanation I was given when I was a
Midwifery Student. I don't see why they can't delay the synto until
the cord has been clamped, *after* it has stopped pulsating.



Hmm, this 3rd stage thing is something I'm going to have to investigate
more. Is there perhaps a FAQ for it?
--
Mogget
  #12  
Old August 28th 05, 05:24 PM
Todd Gastaldo
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in article , Mogget at
wrote on 8/28/05 9:02 AM:

In message , Jo
writes

I think with the active management of 3rd stage, you 'have to' clamp
early so that blood from the placenta isn't *forced* into the baby with
the unnaturally large contraction that the synthetic oxytocin causes to
detatch the placenta. That's the explanation I was given when I was a
Midwifery Student. I don't see why they can't delay the synto until
the cord has been clamped, *after* it has stopped pulsating.



Hmm, this 3rd stage thing is something I'm going to have to investigate
more. Is there perhaps a FAQ for it?


FOR ANY NEW READERS...

Retired obstetrician George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG has gathered ALMOST
all the information about third stage one could want.

Go to
www.cordclamping.com.

AN INCREDIBLE CASE

In 1957, Mavis Gunther, MD reported a case where cord and baby were kept
warm and cord pulsating went on for 20 minutes.

Dr. Morley exclaimed regarding Dr. Gunther's case:

"Figure 1 is a recording of a placental transfusion [3] obtained by placing
the newborn at the level of the placenta, wrapped in a warm blanket, on a
recording scales. It was obviously not a typical birth - the cord pulsated
for 19 minutes, the placental transfusion (cord closure) was completed after
20 minutes, and the child started crying about ten minutes after birth!"

And then...

"During the first nine minutes...[t]here is no record of it breathing during
this time..." *[Gastaldo remarks - WOW!]

Finally...

"Weight variation, INFLUENCED BY UTERINE CONTRACTIONS, indicates that a
virtual tidal wave of placental blood flow was adequately oxygenating the
child in the absence of any obvious lung function." (emphasis
added)...Marked vertical 'activity' lines occur at the height of UTERINE
CONTRACTION/TRANSFUSION PEAKS..." (emphasis added)

Dr. Morley discussing Gunther M. The Transfer of
Blood Between the Baby and the Placenta. Lancet 1957;I:1277-1280.
http://www.cordclamping.com/cry.htm

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon


  #13  
Old August 28th 05, 07:13 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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Mogget wrote:
In message , Jo
writes

I think with the active management of 3rd stage, you 'have to' clamp
early so that blood from the placenta isn't *forced* into the baby
with the unnaturally large contraction that the synthetic oxytocin
causes to detatch the placenta. That's the explanation I was given
when I was a Midwifery Student. I don't see why they can't delay the
synto until the cord has been clamped, *after* it has stopped pulsating.




Hmm, this 3rd stage thing is something I'm going to have to investigate
more. Is there perhaps a FAQ for it?


No FAQ that I'm aware of. You can get abstracts on PubMed, if
you like:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...arch&DB=pubmed

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #14  
Old August 28th 05, 07:56 PM
Todd Gastaldo
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DOES ERICKA AGREE IT'S CHILD ABUSE?

See below.

in article , Ericka
Kammerer at
wrote on 8/28/05 11:13 AM:

Mogget wrote:
In message , Jo
writes

I think with the active management of 3rd stage, you 'have to' clamp
early so that blood from the placenta isn't *forced* into the baby
with the unnaturally large contraction that the synthetic oxytocin
causes to detatch the placenta. That's the explanation I was given
when I was a Midwifery Student. I don't see why they can't delay the
synto until the cord has been clamped, *after* it has stopped pulsating.




Hmm, this 3rd stage thing is something I'm going to have to investigate
more. Is there perhaps a FAQ for it?


No FAQ that I'm aware of. You can get abstracts on PubMed, if
you like:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...arch&DB=pubmed


Sorry to be so persistent but I sincerely believe MDs are committing rather
obvious (easily stopped) mass child abuse and I would like to see it end as
soon as possible.

Ericka, do you agree that Dr. Morley's baby asphyxiation experiment is
obvious child abuse?

Note Dr. Morley's word "asphyxia"...

"[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and thumb...The
[fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the color
will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue
(vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be
able to observe...a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration on
a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds.* Common sense will soon
release the finger and thumb."
http://www.cordclamping.com/ac og-cp.htm

FOR ANY NEW READERS...

As I asked in my original reply to Mogget...

Is there ANYONE who thinks it is right/legal for OB/GYNs to experiment with
asphyxiating babies?

Remember: Dr. Morley encourages this grisly experiment to encourage
obstetricians to demonstrate to themselves that it is not right to rob
babies of up to 50% of their blood volume.

I must admit that I enjoy reading PubMed - so I liked Ericka's "get
abstracts on PubMed" recommendation.

But if I were a baby about to be born, I would want every mother reporting
the obvious child abuse - or pointing out why she doesn't think it is child
abuse.

Ericka, do you agree that Dr. Morley's baby asphyxiation experiment is
obvious child abuse? Some recent PubMed abstracts appear to me to be
anti-scientific medical ploys to re-define "delayed" clamping so that
immediate clamping doesn't look like the obvious child abuse that (I say) it
is...

Remember, according to Dr. Morley, in EVERY CESEAREAN BIRTH obstetricians
CONTINUE the grisly asphyxiation experiment - force the baby to breathe with
his/her lungs before he/she is ready - in the process robbing babies of up
to 50% of their blood volume.

I would like to hear from ANYONE who agrees with me that this is obvious
child abuse.

And if you (Ericka?) don't agree - I would like to hear why not....

Women shouldn't have to ASK for the "extra" up to 50% of blood for their
babies.

Most women don't KNOW to ask.

Attorney generals are silently harming some of The People - some of the
tiniest people.

"Libertarian" Steve B. Harris, MD told everyone how MDs get away
with obvious crimes:

"Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime.
These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you."
http://groups.google.com/group/
misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/28866f3384801ae9

I think there are a LOT of adults who don't understand that attorney
generals remain silent in accord with organized medicine's "elementary
principles" - laws be damned - babies be damned.

As usual, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. As medical students
MDs are TRAINED to perform obvious felonies.

Todd


  #15  
Old August 29th 05, 12:10 AM
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Default


Jo wrote:
I think with the active management of 3rd stage, you 'have to' clamp
early so that blood from the placenta isn't *forced* into the baby with
the unnaturally large contraction that the synthetic oxytocin causes to
detatch the placenta. That's the explanation I was given when I was a
Midwifery Student. I don't see why they can't delay the synto until the
cord has been clamped, *after* it has stopped pulsating.

Jo (Mum to Will, 3 months old!)



COMMENT:

Certainly this seems logical if only 30-45 seconds clamp delay gives a
decrease in cerebral hemorrhage probability (which Cochrane database
meta analysis thinks it does). Unless there's some horrid tearing
emergency going (like mom is bleeding out from placenta previa, or
needs CPR or there's a fire in the delivery room or, etc), slipping in
another 30 sec before the cord is clamped in normal deliveries, and
especially premature infant deliveries where there IS a significant
later risk of intraventricular hemorrhage, doesn't seem unreasonable.
What can happen in 30 sec if there's no emergency? The worst thing on
the clock is fetal asphyxia time, and that doesn't count if you're got
it on nature's heart-lung bypass .

SBH

PS. Of course, this doesn't mean that Gastaldo isn't certifiable. He is.

  #16  
Old August 29th 05, 04:13 PM
Todd Gastaldo
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PREGNANT WOMEN: Obstetricians are routinely asphyxiating babies - forcing
them to breathe through their lungs before they are ready - and in the
process robbing babies of up to 50% of their blood volume.

Fortunately, it is easy for you to make sure your baby gets the "extra" up
to 50% of blood volume.

See below.



STEVE B. HARRIS, MD IS A COWARD - BABIES BE DAMNED

Steve B. Harris, MD fails to report the obvious mass child abuse/baby
asphyxiation/baby blood robbery being committed by his fellow MDs.

FACT: If cultural authorities called MDs don't report MD-crime - attorney
generals usually won't enforce the law.

Steve B. Harris, MD DEPENDS on this fact, writing:

"Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime.
These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you."
http://groups.google.com/group/
misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/28866f3384801ae9

Steve B. Harris, MD is a coward - babies be damned.



I now remark on Steve's most recent comments in reply to a midwife...


Jo wrote:

I think with the active management of 3rd stage, you 'have to' clamp
early so that blood from the placenta isn't *forced* into the baby with
the unnaturally large contraction that the synthetic oxytocin causes to
detatch the placenta. That's the explanation I was given when I was a
Midwifery Student. I don't see why they can't delay the synto until the
cord has been clamped, *after* it has stopped pulsating.

Jo (Mum to Will, 3 months old!)


Steve B. Harris, MD replied:



COMMENT:

Certainly this seems logical if only 30-45 seconds clamp delay gives a
decrease in cerebral hemorrhage probability (which Cochrane database
meta analysis thinks it does).


If a baby is still transfusing blood to him or herself at 30-45 seconds in a
normal birth, it is criminal to stop that transfusion - regardless what
Cochrane database meta analysis thinks.

Sadly, there are many normal births where transfusion is stopped IMMEDIATELY
thereby robbing the baby of up to 50% of his/her blood volume. This
practice is being promoted as "cord blood banking"...

In addition, retired obstetrician George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG
indicates that EVERY CESAREAN BABY is being robbed of up to 50% of blood
volume.

Steve B. Harris, MD ignores this MASSIVE emergency caused by his fellow MDs
- and calls attention to relatively infrequent occurences, as in,

Unless there's some horrid tearing
emergency going (like mom is bleeding out from placenta previa,
or
needs CPR or there's a fire in the delivery room or, etc),
slipping in
another 30 sec before the cord is clamped in normal deliveries, and
especially premature infant deliveries where there IS a significant
later risk of intraventricular hemorrhage, doesn't seem unreasonable.
What can happen in 30 sec if there's no emergency? The worst thing on
the clock is fetal asphyxia time, and that doesn't count if you're got
it on nature's heart-lung bypass .

snip

Ignoring the obvious mass child abuse and focusing on infrequent emergencies
is COWARDICE.

(BTW, has Steve B. Harris, MD manufactured emergencies that require cord
clamping/cutting? Why couldn't a mother be given CPR without robbing the
baby of blood volume? Why couldn't mother and child be wheeled out of a
burning delivery room without robbing the baby of blood volume? Regardless
- when babies are ROUTINELY being asphyxiated/robbed of massive amounts of
blood - you don't ignore that - unless you are protecting your fellow MDs.
That is what the cowardly Steve B. Harris, MD is doing.)

Cowardly Steve B. Harris, MD diagnoses me as insane.

PS. Of course, this doesn't mean that Gastaldo isn't certifiable. He is.


I must indeed be insane. After all, Steve is an MD and "the intellectual
foundation of medical care...is...whatever a physician decides is by
definition correct." [Eddy DM. The challenge. (Jan12)1990 JAMA]

In this case, however, whatever a physician decides is NOT correct.

Steve B. Harris, MD is deciding that he does not wish to address obvious
mass child abuse.

Steve B. Harris, MD is a coward - babies be damned.




Steve B. Harris, MD recently killfiled me, writing:

"Google this, Gastaldo: **PLONK**"
http://groups.google.com/group/
misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/6f1eec8fb7f3175b




Here's the exchange that caused Steve to killfile me....




I wrote:

snip

Keeping in mind that most newborns are still breathing through their
umbilical cords at birth...


Retired obstetrician George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG indicates that
EVERY CESAREAN BABY is having its umbilical cord immediately clamped.


Steve B. Harris, MD snipped substantially and wrote:


COMMENT:


Since resuscitation is done at another site,


Steve, I think it best to REDESIGN "another site" so that mother can be
wheeled there with baby still attached to the natural
transfusion/oxygenation device rather than routinely asphyxiating babies and
robbing blood from them.

and you can't move the
baby out of the operating field till the cord is clamped and cut,


First consideration: Many babies are very likely only in an "operating
field" in the first place because of OB/GYN lies - for example OB/GYNs are
lying to cover-up the fact they are closing birth canals up to 30%.

Second consideration: You are euphemizing. *"Cord clamped and cut" is
euphemism for "baby being amputated from mother and anti-scientifically
denied benefit of natural transfusion/oxygenation device."

Third consideration: The baby blood robbery crime isn't just happening in
cesarean births. *It is being PROMOTED [cord blood banking - TG] - as
OB/GYNs stupidly assist the promoters - and lie to cover-up the fact they
are routinely closing birth canals up to 30%.

Fourth consideration: OB/GYNs are committing LOTS of obvious crimes.

See Birth Danger: Cal Chiro Bd - SIMPLE QUESTION
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3526

When I noted that MDs are committing obvious crimes and that law enforcement
isn't enforcing the law.

You replied with typical MD arrogance:

"Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime.
These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you."
http://groups-beta.google.com/ group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/ 28866f338...

See Libertarians: Crooked obstetrician Ron Paul, MD (also: Michael Badnarik
for Congress)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com /group/chiro-list/message/3789

it
seems rather stupid to sit there and wait too long.


Speaking of stupid Steve, please note your arrogance babies be damned.

As long as law enforcement looks the other way, the grisly MD silence game
will work.

You have to
resuscitate sometime. How long to wait is a good question. Perhaps we
can have some OB-GYN input?


I AGREE WITH STEVE B. HARRIS, MD...

Yes - it is time for OB-GYNs to account for themselves. *First, they need to
account for the fact that the baby blood robbery crime isn't just happening
in cesarean births. *It is being PROMOTED - as OB/GYNs stupidly assist the
promoters - and lie to cover-up the fact they are routinely closing birth
canals up to 30%.

Surely all OB-GYNs can agree that that bizarre TEMPORARY baby asphyxiation
experiment being promoted by Dr. Morley should never be attempted...

Here it is again....note the word "asphyxia"...

"[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and thumb...The
[fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the color
will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue
(vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be
able to observe, without interference, a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration on
a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds.* Common sense will soon
release the finger and thumb."
http://www.cordclamping.com/ac og-cp.htm

[PREGNANT WOMEN: To make sure your baby gets the "extra" up to 50% of blood,
tell the obstetrician not to clamp the cord until it stops pulsating and
your baby is pink and breathing and not in need of resuscitation.]

Steve, you do agree that OB/GYNs should not be experimenting with
asphyxiating babies temporarily, right?

As for premature infants born vaginally, evidence does support 30 to
120 seconds of delay before cord clamping.


Evidence supports the fact that a massive baby asphyxiation/baby blood
robbery crime is being commmitted by OB/GYNs and CNMwives.

Evidence supports the fact that criminals will do everything possible to
make it look like they haven't committed a crime.

My view: *OB/GYNs and CNMwives are cooperating to get 30 seconds defined as
"delayed" clamping.

See 'Scientifically' supporting mass child abuse by MDs...
http://groups-beta.google.com/ group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/ 7e3e71a8f...

Need for transfusion and
(more importantly) interventricular brain hemmorhage seems to be
decreased by doing this.


Yes, Steve-o, when you let the baby transfuse more of his or her OWN blood
to himself or herself - "need for transfusion" will very likely "seem...to
be decreased by doing this."

Here's a full Cochrane review on the very
subject.


http://www.mrw.interscience.wi ley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/arti cles/CD00...
e.html


I've discussed this very paper...

See again: 'Scientifically' supporting mass child abuse by MDs...
http://groups-beta.google.com/ group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/ 7e3e71a8f...

The authors, Heike Rabe, MD, PhD et al.^^^ write:

"Early clamping allows for immediate resuscitation of the newborn..."
---BIZARRE

^^^Rabe H, Reynolds G, Diaz-Rossello J. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2004 Oct
18;(4):CD003248. PubMed abstract

I copied Heike before - but she never got back to me...

I'll copy her again:

*Heike Rabe, MD, PhD
Consultant Neonatologist
Brighton & Sussex University Hospitals
Brighton BN2 5BE (UK)
Tel. +44 1273 696955, Fax +44 1273 664795,
*E-Mail

Heike, you are a neonatologist - why haven't neonatal resuscitation stations
been redesigned so that mother and baby can be wheeled under keeping the
natural oxygenation/transfusion device attached?

Is there some technical obstacle?

Again, my view: *OB/GYNs and CNMwives are cooperating to get 30 seconds
defined as "delayed" clamping.

They know they are committing crime - they know they are abusing babies -
they know they are using cultural authority to cover-up.

Sorry to be redundant, but I say again Steve: When I noted that MDs are
committing obvious crimes and that law enforcement
isn't enforcing the law.

You replied:

"Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime.
These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you."
http://groups-beta.google.com/ group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/ 28866f338...

I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. *As medical students, MDs are
TRAINED to perform felonies.

See Libertarians: Crooked obstetrician Ron Paul, MD (also: Michael Badnarik
for Congress)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com /group/chiro-list/message/3789


Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon











 




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