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Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 20th 09, 11:24 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
Peter Bowditch
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Posts: 1,038
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged

Happy Oyster wrote:

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:34:25 +0100, "john" wrote:


"Peter Parry" wrote in message

Her most recent award was in 1997, when she was awarded the "Bent
Spoon Award". This award is presented annually to the Australian
"perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of pseudoscientific
piffle":


Bent spoon is a non award


If it's awarded, how can it be a "non award"?


To foul up things like Viera Scheibner does, is awarding?


She also won the 1999 Anus Maximus Award.

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/scheibner.htm


--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
  #12  
Old August 21st 09, 01:59 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
Peter Bowditch
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Posts: 1,038
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged

Peter Parry wrote:

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:27:04 +0100, "john" wrote:


This letter by Dr Viera Scheibner, Principle Research Scientist (Rtd)
and now prominent public campaigner,


Another example of the logical fallacy of "argument from authority".

"Principal Research Scientist" and "Dr" is one presumes proclaimed to
add weight to her otherwise rather empty arguments. It would
therefore be appropriate to consider them in a bit more detail.

Firstly, she is not a Dr of medicine but a Geologist who gained her
PhD in 1964. Her most notable contribution to science was a paper on
"The Cretaceous and Jurassic Foraminifera of the Carpathian Klippen
Belt in Slovakia" and her specialty in Australia was the Cretaceous
and Permian Foraminifera of the Great Australian Basin in New South
Wales.

Scheibner claim to be a Principle Research Scientist concerns her
training and experience as a Geologist and her appointment at the
Geological Survey of New South Wales. She retired in 1987. She has
never published a scientific paper on the subject of vaccination (or
indeed any medical subject).

Her most recent award was in 1997, when she was awarded the "Bent
Spoon Award". This award is presented annually to the Australian
"perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of pseudoscientific
piffle":


Actually, her most recent award was the 1999 Anus Maximus Award.

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/histor...1999awards.htm

--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
  #13  
Old August 21st 09, 02:22 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
Happy Oyster
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Posts: 259
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:20:07 GMT, Peter Bowditch
wrote:


Stephen Basser in "the Skeptic", Vol 17 No 1, in "Anti-immunisation sca The
inconvenient facts":

http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/1997/1_immunise.htm


That page disappeared with the recreation of the site. You can read
Stephen Basser's article at
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/immunise.htm


Thank you!

a) May I have it for my site and

b) can you reach Stephen Basser?

Aribert

--
Charles Berliner: Geschichte der AnnaŽlle

http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_anna.htm
  #14  
Old August 21st 09, 02:24 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
Happy Oyster
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Posts: 259
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:24:33 GMT, Peter Bowditch
wrote:

To foul up things like Viera Scheibner does, is awarding?


She also won the 1999 Anus Maximus Award.

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/scheibner.htm


I will have to look for updates on the links for 2007 and 2008...

--
Charles Berliner: Geschichte der AnnaŽlle

http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_anna.htm
  #15  
Old August 21st 09, 02:30 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
Peter Bowditch
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Posts: 1,038
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged

Bob Officer wrote:

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:27:04 +0100, in misc.health.alternative,
"john" wrote:

http://www.vierascheibner.org/index....tent&Itemid=59

Vaccination Challenge
This letter by Dr Viera Scheibner, Principle Research Scientist (Rtd)


Fallacy of citing a false authority.

Viera Scheibner is a geologist, and a expert on Prehistoric
Microscopic Plankton, not a person trained in the medical field. Past
criticism of her abuses in the manipulation of stats has cast serious
doubts on all of her claims and research.

and now prominent public campaigner, was sent to and published in the


translation is a loud mouth attention seeker.

Medical Observer, an Australian medical newspaper, in February 1999.


Isn't that like being published in the letters to the editor section
of the newspaper? Not really something that even gets peer reviewed?



Medical Observer Pty Ltd
Level 2, 100 Bay Road,
Waverton NSW 2060

19 February 1999

Dear Editor,

SIMON CHAPMAN TO TAKE HIS OWN MEDICINE

On February 19, 1999, the Medical Observer published an article by
Simon Chapman, in which he issued a challenge to the anti-vaccination
movement in Australia.

My response to his provocative article is as follows:

If vaccines are such a blessing I challenge Simon Chapman to appear on
television and allow himself to be injected with all baby vaccines, adjusted
to his body weight by a doctor of my choice and in my presence.

The vaccines to be administered to Simon are as follows:

a.. DtaP: 3 doses within 4 months
b.. Hib (any conjugates): 3 doses within 4 months
c.. OPV or IPV: 3 doses within 4 months
d.. Hep B: 3 doses within 1 month of each other.
The time of the first dose represents month 0.

There isn't a better way to demonstrate to us that vaccines are safe
and effective than by Simon taking his own medicine.

After every lot of vaccines an independent medical doctor and myself
would
assess Simon's reactions and the general state of health. Long-term
reactions will be followed up for 3 years.

If you do not publish my letter and/or Simon does not agree to this
easy and safe demonstration, then it will show us all that vaccinators are
dishonest and are afraid of their own medicine. In other words: put up or
shut up.

I will publicise this proposition and your response on the Internet to
ensure that my response to Simon's challenge is widely known.

Yours very sincerely,
Viera Scheibner Ph.D

Simon Chapman has been pretty quiet since this challenge and still is
as of today.


Why give any credence to a person who is mouthing off outside her
field of expertise and experience?

The real question is why the editor even published the letter.


Is there any evidence that the magazine did publish the letter? We
only have Scheibner's word that it was sent.


We issue the same challenge to all others in trusted positions of
"authority" who actively promote the injection of these substances into
humans, or indeed any other living creature.


John If I looked in a dictionary at the word gullible, would your
picture be there?

I wonder why you even considered this person credible at all.
Consider the body of her past work and then he current "research
attempts". Read the criticism of her work by practitioners in the
alt.medical field. and carefully consider not using her in citations.


--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
  #16  
Old August 21st 09, 03:08 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
Happy Oyster
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Posts: 259
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:58:45 -0700, Bob Officer wrote:

Viera Scheibner is a geologist, and a expert on Prehistoric
Microscopic Plankton,


If she messes up that the same way she messes up with vaccination, she must be a
terrific "expert".

--
Charles Berliner: Geschichte der AnnaŽlle

http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_anna.htm
  #17  
Old August 21st 09, 05:59 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
john[_5_]
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Posts: 822
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged


"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:46:55 +0100, "john" wrote:

strange that you should be defending vaccination as you don't seem to be
in
the medical industry


What is strange about promoting rational thinking against bigotry,
ignorance and witchcraft?

Vaccination needs no defending. Anyone with intelligence and an open
mind can examine the objective evidence and see that. Do you expect
me to promote the opposite? Do you expect me to espouse a closed
mind, a promotion of ignorance, a cult of celebrity where who says
what is more important than the truth of what they say? A willful
dismissal of anything which doesn't suit pre-conceived prejudices and
conspiracy theories?


Yeah yeah, but vaccination is witchcraft, but I'd hardly expect you to own
up to your real agenda, silly me.


  #18  
Old August 21st 09, 06:19 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
john[_5_]
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Posts: 822
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged


"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...

One assumes she wishes readers to think her experience and
qualifications give her some authority in the field in which she is
writing. They do not.


That is the fallacy of authority you are pushing. It is bogus
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/authority.html



A Paleontologist is not usually the first stop when looking for
medical advice and an expert on Permian Plankton fossil research is
somewhat different from a medical research scientist. The quality of
her amateur work since her retirement has, as you probably know, been
subject to consistent criticism. Her inability to understand
statistics is widely commented upon and Stephen Basser described her
incompetent work on Japanese rates of SIDS as "At best sloppy, and at
worst blatantly dishonest."


he would say that, if you want to see dishonest
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr54.html


Notably, despite her self professed expertise in the field of
vaccination she has not published a single scientific paper on the
subject.


Can't see the point, that is the fallacy of medical journal authority
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/scheibner_a.html

medical journals are all allopathic generally speaking, anyway


  #19  
Old August 21st 09, 06:21 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
john[_5_]
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Posts: 822
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
To foul up things like Viera Scheibner does, is awarding?


She also won the 1999 Anus Maximus Award.

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/scheibner.htm


Anus is a good one from you


  #20  
Old August 21st 09, 06:23 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med.nursing
john[_5_]
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Posts: 822
Default Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message

That page disappeared with the recreation of the site. You can read
Stephen Basser's article at
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/immunise.htm


Load of propaganda


 




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