A sad good bye.

"Nina" wrote in message
.. .
If I were bottle feeding I'd blame it all on the bottle.
It makes her gassy
It makes her fussy
Thats why she's sick
I spend too much time making formula
I spend too much time cleaning bottles

Yeah, I think whatever it is, you can find a way to make it the scapegoat
for other issues.

That's what I meant.

Breastfeeding IMO makes it easier to deal with other kids. I dont have to
stop what I am doing to go prepare a bottle, I can just give her the
breast
and continue what I am doing. I would need a hand to hold her and a hand
to
feed her with a bottle, with the breast I can use only one. And with a
pillow and sitting indian style, I can nurse her with no hands if I need
both hands free for a brief time.



I think, any way you slice it, nursing comes out easier in a situation like
mine in which there are no problems to get over. It is pure mental deception
which makes one think that there is a quick "fix" to whatever the perceived
problem is, even when the problem is just adjusting to being a parent of the
kid(s) you have.

"Stephanie and Tim" wrote in message
...

"Nina" wrote in message
.. .
I'm not unsupportive either, I just cant imagine whats so hard about
breastfeeding, I may have missed the other posts. Im currently nursing
a
7
week old and I have 2 other kids, one is autistic, so its no picnic
here.
But Im an old hand at it, I can nurse and walk, talk, play, etc.

I also did it at 22 when my 10 year old was born.
The house wont be perfectly clean, but would it be clean with a
bottlefed
baby? The 3 year old needs attention, but how is bottlefeeding going
to
fix
this?
Im not understanding the problem here.


I speculate that some of us (OK OK ME! tend to blame breastfeeding
for
some of the adjustments we face as parents because it is the one thing
that
only we can do. I sometimes *think* that all the issues will go away if
I
can just feed the baby a bottle when it is not really true. It will just
be
a different set of issues. Since I know this tendency in myself, I can
watch
for it and ignore it when it rears its ugly head. Anyone else ever
thought
this?


"Denise" wrote in message
...

"K-K ~Glass Boobs~" wrote in message
news:7xaCb.665374$6C4.338699@pd7tw1no...
in bold (IT IS NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP THE ENTIRE FAMILY
TOGETHER!
HE
IS SUPPORTIVE, YOU DON'T KNOW HIM OR ME FOR THAT MATTER. THERE IS
ONLY
SO
MUCH ANY ONES DH CAN TAKE, AND NO PUNY CUP OF HOT CHOCOLATE CAN
CONSOLE
ME
AFTER SPENDING THE DAY WITH A DAUGHTER WHO IS CRYING BECAUSE I AM
NEGLECTING
HER. THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY TIMES READING HER A BOOK WHILE IM
NURSING
WILL
AMUSE A 3.5 YEAROLD, AND IM SICK OF USING T.V AS A BABYSITTER.)


I'm really, honestly things didn't work out for you. Have you
considered
maybe getting screened for PPD? What do you suppose other moms with
more
than one child do while they nurse? Its good that you are doing so
well
for
your age, but honestly, age has nothing to do with maturity, or
parenting,
or the ability to handle responsibilities, or make commitments..
etc.
I'm
24. I have 3 kids and 1 on the way. My husband's 31, he's been in
the
Navy
for 14 years and we own stuff. Does that make me or him better
parents
than
you or anyone else? No. Parenting isn't a competition. If you're
happy,
good. You don't need to make excuses for making decision. Part of
being
an
adult is making decisions for your family. You did. Good. Don't
make
excuses to appease others.





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"Ty" wrote in message
...
K-K ~Glass Boobs~ wrote in message ...
Thanks for those who were understanding. My house is a much more nice
place
for others to be. When your husband dreads coming home because DD has
torn
up the house and mom is crying while nursing the baby you know something
NEEDS to change.


I think it seems that it's your dh who needs to change...when there's a
baby
a dh should expect some neglect and a torn-up home...my third baby was my
hardest, but luckily dh knew I wouldn't lavish all my attention onto him
and
the house lol. He actually helped some!
Marie



My DH is very supportive too. Of course, he would get both barrels in the
chest if he were to complain about the state of housekeeping.

S

"Denise" wrote in message
...

"K-K ~Glass Boobs~" wrote in message
news:WKmCb.677278$pl3.406@pd7tw3no...
I agree, but when he is the one doing the picking up and some laundry
etc...
he gets tired and worn out. My job is not always 24-7 although I am on
call.
He works all day and comes home and works all night. I felt it was un
fair
and it was running his energy on E. I need attention from him too.


A household is a two person job, regardless of if someone stays home all
day
or not. I won't even relate this to breastfeeding. It took my husband
and
I a lot of adjustments to come to the agreement we have. He comes from a
traditional family where I should cook and clean and raise the kids... it
doesn't happen here. I work, we have 3 kids, he's in the Navy. He works
from 4am to 6pm. When he comes home, I do expect him to help me. Just
because he works longer hours than I, why should I shoulder more
responsibility?



I will take it one step further than what you are saying. I have always told
my husband I needed his "help." It finally dawned on me that this is tacitly
saying it is MY responsibility and he is HELPING. BS. It is HIS
responsibility too. Not Helping. Doing. So I changed my language a little.

S




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"Stephanie and Tim" wrote

I will take it one step further than what you are saying. I have always
told
my husband I needed his "help." It finally dawned on me that this is
tacitly
saying it is MY responsibility and he is HELPING. BS. It is HIS
responsibility too. Not Helping. Doing. So I changed my language a little.

S


Bingo! I told mine that I need help because I cant do it alone, so he has to
"do his part" around here.

Hear, hear!

Haven't posted in a bit, but this threat has caught my interest, so I just
had to say something!

3 kids, last one breastfed, wonderful, supportive husband who worked all day
and then came home to cook/clean at night and never bitched, growled or
sulked once about what I was doing, he knew it was the best for the baby, he
got up at night to get the baby and bring him to me when I was too
exhausted. To me, that's the definition of supportive, not someone who
bitches, sulks growls cause miss betty crocker didn't visit the house while
he was gone. "PFT"

Sure, gave up on sleep a bit, showers weren't as often as I would have
liked, didn't always eat when I wanted, and it lasted 4 months, not 4 weeks,
but 4 MONTHS due to nipple compression injury, but I wouldn't trade any of
it. The more I read about what it will do for him (outside of this
newsgroup, unbiased articles) the more I think how could I have ever denied
him that for his life. Who would intentially cause increases for health
problems for their child? Key word being intentionally, for some, there are
real issues (not these cry-baby ones) that I will forever be thankful they
have something to feed their child when they cannot.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have bf all 3 kids, but listening to
someone cop out, just makes me sorry for someone like that. Sorry, guess
I'm strong willed in that whatever it takes to do the best for my kids, I
will have. Afterall, they are babies for such a short time, and all too
soon I'll be wishing I could cure his owies, his tiredness and his cuddles
with a slow rock in a rocking chair and a nurse/cuddle session. All too
soon they will be grown and gone, I will have all the time in the world to
cook/clean/cater to a whiny self absorbed husband (if that was what my DH
was that is) Because as we can all attest to, start sarcasm they nurse
right until University. end sarcasm

PFT, good riddance to cop outs, whiny, self absorbed people... blah

"Michelle Podnar" wrote in message
...

I think that she just wanted someone else to tell her to quit. I don't
think that she really wanted the help. A lot of us have gone through 6
weeks of hell (I know I did), with painful latches, round the clock
nursing
etc...., but I was always told to get to at least 6 weeks before I make a
decision to BF or not to, because it takes that long to get it to a point
where it is mutually enjoyable for both. I am glad that I did stick it
out,
and I am still nursing my 17 mos DD now (which I never imagined I would
be).

It is hard when you pour all kinds of thought into advice and it is just
brushed off, and not even utilized, and now we are the bad ones because we
are so pro BF??





--
Michelle P
Ava Marie July 14, 2002
"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
I want to stop.
*ouch*

I assumed you came to this newsgroup because you wanted to breastfeed, I
thought and tried to offer advice, I also try to think about other
peoples
feelings, you didn't have to reply to my post, instead you post a one
sentence brush off reply that I found hurtful and for some reason really
upset me. I don't know why I bother.


"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
I read this entire thread before I went to work this morning, now
I've
had
the whole car journey to muse over it and think of my comments.

First of all, stop taking the meds to dry you up, seems like they
either
won't work when you stop them, or there is a high risk of bad side
effects.

This would leave you free to mixed feed, which from the point of
view
of
ease and convienience is the best of both worlds, it's not without
problems, but if you can feed him at nap time, bed time, breakfast
etc
and
give him a bottle other times, you save some money and some faff of
making
bottles.

Finally, whilst all our responses indicate it's best to let him
unlatch
himself, when other needs are greater, switching sides and burping
in
between sides whenever sucking stops for a short time can make the
feed
much quicker.

Oh and, definitely get checked out for PPD, ask yourself, does the
normal
you behave like this? Formula feeding might be just delaying the
inevitable. I know at the start of my PPD there were a couple of
events
that delayed it's really obvious onset for a couple of weeks, but in
the
end it was inevitable.

Anne





-----------
Anne Rogers

"K-K ~Glass Boobs~" wrote in message
news:%HmCb.680087$9l5.339427@pd7tw2no...
its been done for so long because most people
have practice with their first born. My DD was
bottle fed,


Oh that is just about the lamest thing I've heard yet. I had some
sympathy for your original post but the more you've said in this thread
the less sympathy I've had and this is just the last straw. Now if you
have a third, will you not bf that one, because you didn't get two kids'
worth of practice? I have just had my second baby too so I know darn
well how things are. I bf'd my first for 14 months and I don't think it
made a bit of difference in how much difficulty I've had this time. My
second had a heck of a growth spurt his second and third weeks and that
is probably what caused your baby to nurse a lot too. Your baby
probably would already be spending less time eating now even if you had
continued bf'ing. It's not necessarily because of going to formula,
though that might have made a couple days' difference since he didn't
have to work for the increase in food availability.
--
Cheryl S.
Mom to Julie, 2 yr., 8 mo.
And Jaden, 3 months

Cleaning the house while your children are small is like
shoveling the sidewalk while it's still snowing.

"Clisby" wrote in message
...


Michelle Podnar wrote:
Then say goodbye, leave it at that and go find a formula feeding support
group. Breastfeeding was not the cause of your problems, it is just
your
scapegoat. Who has a baby #2, and doesn't expect their house to be
upside
down for a while ....it has only been 4 WEEKS!!





Here, it has only been 22 months!

Clisby
(motto: If you think the house is messy, honey, the broom's in the
closet.)



That's a great motto! I think I'll use it when my MIL comes to visit next
week.




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"Emily Roysdon" wrote in message
. com...
K-K ~Glass Boobs~ wrote:
its been done for so long because most people have practice with their
first
born. My DD was bottle fed, All I can do is sit or lay with *Both* hands
occupied because of large breasts.

Perhaps yours are larger than my F cups. Nearly everything is harder
once you have a second child, so the practice one has with a first born
is largely irrelevant; I actually had a harder time nursing my second
than my first, as he was the pro, not me. Had you even tried a sling?
I can't imagine parenting, period, without an infant in the sling,
because they still need a lot of holding and physical contact. Unless
formula negates the need for that?



My DD HATES the sling, as did my son. She tolerates it only when nursing.
She is more interested in smiling and cooing in a conversational way than in
hugs and smooshy closeness. Each set of mom and baby is different, I think.
My DD likes nursing for the fun of it more than I remember DS doing.

In any case, people have succeeded (in lieu of actual supply problems,
in which case a wet nurse was located) for millenia because they did
what they had to do. Feeding the baby wasn't something they could feel
free to "hate" and then discard; it meant life or death, and some of us
believe it still does. In this modern age, however, people see formula
as a parenting "choice" and they react accordingly.


It is a parenting choice. It is available. And to say it is a matter of life
and death is an idea I have a hard time with. How many folks who talk about
superior and inferior food never bring their children to McFood? Or allow
halloween candy? *I* eat inferior food all the time. Once upon a time,
formula was horrendous stuff, mostly corn syrup. And while it certainly is
not breastmilk by any stretch, it is pretty good stuff.


The other thing about what was done for millenia before formula, babies died
of malnutrician all the time.

Having choices allows people to pick an inferior one.


Woops. I jumed the gun on the inferior food argument.

Most of us here
didn't make that choice, and so we did what had to be done for our
babies, knowing how important breastmilk is for babies and that formula
feeding causes real harm.


What real harm does formula feeding do? I have never heard of real harm
being associated with formula.

If that's not one's mindset, then I guess the
choice is easier, but the reaction you're seeing here is disbelief
because most of us cannot imagine formula feeding by choice, knowing
what we know about breastmilk.


I can easily imagine formula feeding by choice. I see some folks like
Ipheginia. She could not formula feed. It is such a high priority for her
that it would truly tear her apart, and thus would be horrible for her
child. That would be a real travesty. But for a friend of mine, bonding
could not occur so long as she hated breastfeeding so much. I do not agree,
personally, with the why's of her hating it. But she did. How can you bond
with a baby you resent?

We've also accepted that parenting means
sacrifice, at times, and that a baby is involved, it's the adults who
sacrifice. Breastmilk's benefits are just too important, and
long-lasting.

no I'm not getting this formula free but 10 bucks a month is a far cry
from
200 for daycare. When I said subsidy I should have said we don't qualify
for
government subsidy for child care, we make about $200 or something too
much
and that puts us just above the marker.

$10 a month? I always thought it was $10+ a can. And that's if the baby
does "okay" on standard formula.


Emily

"Denise" wrote in message
...

"Clisby" wrote in message
...


Michelle Podnar wrote:
Then say goodbye, leave it at that and go find a formula feeding
support
group. Breastfeeding was not the cause of your problems, it is just
your
scapegoat. Who has a baby #2, and doesn't expect their house to be
upside
down for a while ....it has only been 4 WEEKS!!





Here, it has only been 22 months!

Clisby
(motto: If you think the house is messy, honey, the broom's in the
closet.)



That's a great motto! I think I'll use it when my MIL comes to visit next
week.


Lordy! Does your MIL make comments about your housekeeping? And she is still
invited over??????




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Stephanie and Tim wrote:

My DD HATES the sling, as did my son. She tolerates it only when nursing.
She is more interested in smiling and cooing in a conversational way than in
hugs and smooshy closeness. Each set of mom and baby is different, I think.
My DD likes nursing for the fun of it more than I remember DS doing.

My daughter didn't like it at first. She got used to it. I'm not
saying that every baby is going to love the sling, but it was something
the OP could have tried, to meet the baby's need to be held and nursed
frequently, and have a free hand(s) for the older child. For a baby who
wants to be held all the time, even when not nursing, I don't see how
formula feeding is going to lessen *that* problem.

snip
believe it still does. In this modern age, however, people see formula
as a parenting "choice" and they react accordingly.

It is a parenting choice. It is available. And to say it is a matter of life
and death is an idea I have a hard time with. How many folks who talk about
superior and inferior food never bring their children to McFood? Or allow
halloween candy? *I* eat inferior food all the time. Once upon a time,
formula was horrendous stuff, mostly corn syrup. And while it certainly is
not breastmilk by any stretch, it is pretty good stuff.

We don't eat at McDonald's and we skipped Halloween this year (my kids
only like chocolate and not hard candies), but I see your point. Of
course formula is better than no food at all, but it doesn't compare to
breastmilk. How many of us let our kids have candy or McFood every day,
for every meal?

The other thing about what was done for millenia before formula, babies died
of malnutrician all the time.

Formula was created for those situations when breastmilk was not
available and a baby would otherwise die. It does not mean that
breastmilk can and should be withheld from a child just because formula
is out there. Like there are vitamins out there in pill form, but that
doesn't mean I should never offer my children fruits and vegetables.

Having choices allows people to pick an inferior one.

Woops. I jumed the gun on the inferior food argument.

Heh. You see my point then?


Most of us here
didn't make that choice, and so we did what had to be done for our
babies, knowing how important breastmilk is for babies and that formula
feeding causes real harm.



What real harm does formula feeding do? I have never heard of real harm
being associated with formula.

Really? http://www.promom.org/101/index.html. And then there's the
issue of formula being contaminated, or incorrectly prepared, before or
after you buy it. That recent horror story of formula with inadequate
vitamins in Israel (leading to brain damage and death of infants) is
very real harm. I can't imagine the guilt I would feel if I formula fed
by choice and my child died because of it.

I can easily imagine formula feeding by choice. I see some folks like
Ipheginia. She could not formula feed. It is such a high priority for her
that it would truly tear her apart, and thus would be horrible for her
child. That would be a real travesty. But for a friend of mine, bonding
could not occur so long as she hated breastfeeding so much. I do not agree,
personally, with the why's of her hating it. But she did. How can you bond
with a baby you resent?

I think people need to get over themselves, frankly, or seek counseling
and treatment. I know that sounds harsh, but parenting is about doing
the best thing for your child, even if it's not what you want to do, and
if there's that intensity of feeling, professional help is needed. I
think *all* of us would scoff if someone said they resented diaper
changes to the point where they couldn't bond with their baby, yet
somehow breastfeeding is something disposable and optional? I guess it
all comes down to mindset and "choices"...there is no choice not to do
diaper changes (yes, Dawn, I know all about elimination communication
;-), and there is a perceived choice to not breastfeed.

I guess I'm the sort of person who always needs to know the facts, and I
can't un-know what I know. So, once I learned about breastmilk, there
was no going back. I could not willingly deprive my children of their
birthright if there was any choice in the matter, and I don't understand
how other people could. But then I don't understand a lot of the
choices other people make.


Emily