I really should not have read Babywise

(Nevermind) wrote in message . com...

This has really made me think about these mythical "primitive
societies" of AP lore where the babies are up in arms all day. The AP
talk makes that sound like that's where babies most want to be and
would be if we loved our babies enough, and that may be true for most
tiny babies and some older babies, but, gosh, I suspect most are
strapped to backs because they need to be for their safety. Floors in
"primitive societies" must be so very unsafe! My baby is 8 MO now and
would go NUTS if I had to keep her strapped to my back all day. I
can't help thinking that plenty of older babies in "primitive
societies" are miserable being confined to their mom's backs. Thank
God for baby seats, playyards, gates, and the first-world luxury of
adult leisure time, so our babies can get down out of our arms and
have fun exploring.

Having lived in one of these societies (rural West Africa) I'll point
out two other important differences --
1. There's essentially always older siblings, aunts, friends,
grandmas, etc around who can help keep an eye on baby when mum puts
him down, and
2. They get sick and injured at a phenomenally higher rate.

Even my 3 m/o seems to enjoy a change of scenery now and again --
there are times when after a lot of slinging/carrying putting her down
seems to be just what she wants.

Kate
and the Bug, June 8 2003

Kate
and the Bug, June 8 2003

I don't think that using a playpen a good idea, I think the baby is a
little
young for that. I have used a playpen when the baby has become mobile and I
need to put him in a safe place while i'm mopping the floor in the same
room

The idea is that *if* you are going to use a playpen when the baby is mobile,
then it may be a good idea to start using it before the baby is mobile, so that
the baby is used to being in it and does not associate it only with being
confined.

Which may or may not work, but it doesn't hurt to try. IF, again, you are
going to use a playpen at all, which isn't always necessary but certainly isn't
the evil thing that some make it out to be. There were certainly times when my
son preferred to be in a playpen in the same room as me than roaming freely
about a room that I was not in, and sometimes those were his choices.

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

"Kereru" wrote

I still think that if you are going to read then reading a wide range of
stuff is a good idea when you have a new baby

Anyway, I find it hard to believe that most adult women really
"follow"
any baby book or adopt any book's parenting philosophy unless what she
reads really "clicks" with her. Rather, I think most end up choosing
and ultimately using those books that conform to their own instincts.
So, I suspect that those women who "follow Ezzo" (which, by the way, I
have never heard of except on this list) had always believed that
babies need to be controlled and those who "follow Sears" were already
the kind who would want to sleep with their babies. They just pick up
specific ideas from these authors for following their own instincts.

I bought both Penelope Leach and What to Expect the First Year on
others' recommendations while pregnant with my first. Once the
desperate-for-info-any-info newborn period was over, I tended to
increasingly consult Leach with questions, esp. those on which
"parenting philosophy" would have an effect. I just liked her; she
made sense to me. By about 6 months postpartum, I had decided I sort
of hated WTETFY.

Karen Askey wrote:

husband was the one who finally said for me to listen
to my gut and throw away the books (Hogg's Baby Whisperer was the other one)

Yukko. I skimmed thru that book and decided she was a nasty piece of work wrapped
up in a smarmy package.
(Feel the same about Monty Roberts, the "original" (larf!) Horse Whisperer........)

didn't even KNOW at that point that she'd left her family behind to tell other
people what to do with theirs.

Dawn

You know what really got me about the "Baby Whisper"? It was her idea of eat,
play, sleep. It may work for some babies, but with my DD (now 2 and 3 months
and still nursing twice a day or so.) nursing put her right to sleep. I was so
exhausted and stressed out about this new, very demanding
housemate/baranacle/new baby I was not about to wake her up just to follow some
book's advice. Especially since her advice didn't seem to present breastfeeding
with the seriousness it took to make it work for us. Sue


** remove "spamnot" to reply**

You know what really got me about the "Baby Whisper"? It was her idea of eat,
play, sleep. It may work for some babies, but with my DD (now 2 and 3 months
and still nursing twice a day or so.) nursing put her right to sleep

I think this is true for most babies. Nursing is a natural sleep inducer for
babies, so the idea that we are somehow supposed to keep our babies awake after
a feeding and play with them, THEN put them in their crib, awake, so they can
learn how to fall asleep on their own -- is, at best, counterintuitive, and at
worst, well -- stupid. (And Ezzo recommends the same thing, of course.)
I think it is helpful if you are trying to get baby on a schedule, however,
since a soundly sleeping baby [i.e. a baby who has been put to bed awake, and
so has probably fallen asleep crying....] will probably actually sleep a little
longer, and not wake up from hunger until the hunger pangs are pretty strong.
And, ta dah! You have your 4 hour schedule!!!


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

"Naomi Pardue" wrote in message
...
You know what really got me about the "Baby Whisper"? It was her idea of
eat,
play, sleep. It may work for some babies, but with my DD (now 2 and 3
months
and still nursing twice a day or so.) nursing put her right to sleep

I think this is true for most babies. Nursing is a natural sleep inducer
for
babies, so the idea that we are somehow supposed to keep our babies awake
after
a feeding and play with them, THEN put them in their crib, awake, so they
can
learn how to fall asleep on their own -- is, at best, counterintuitive,
and at
worst, well -- stupid. (And Ezzo recommends the same thing, of course.)
I think it is helpful if you are trying to get baby on a schedule,
however,
since a soundly sleeping baby [i.e. a baby who has been put to bed awake,
and
so has probably fallen asleep crying....] will probably actually sleep a
little
longer, and not wake up from hunger until the hunger pangs are pretty
strong.
And, ta dah! You have your 4 hour schedule!!!

I say go with the baby's natural rhythm. It's silly to fight an
eat/sleep/play routine if it works.

I say go with the baby's natural rhythm. It's silly to fight an
eat/sleep/play routine if it works.

I agree, at first this is what I expected, but it wasn't what happened,
nursing seemed to put him into a light sleep which any movement would wake
him up, then he's happy to play and nap later, going to sleep in his
basket, with a little bit of fussing, doesn't often seem to make him sleep
longer, we usually get max an hour, he usually wakes up for more play
rather than feed straight away.



-----------
Anne Rogers

Anne Rogers wrote:

nursing seemed to put him into a light sleep which any movement would wake
him up, then he's happy to play and nap later,


Caterpillar is the same way, depending on the time of day.
Nursing in the morning and afternoon induces a state of
dazed milk-drunkenness, which wears off in a few minutes,
leaving her energized and ready to play. Playing tires her
out, so she sleeps more easily. But she's not a fan of
sleeping by herself during the day, so she gets 30-minute
naps by herself or an hour or two in the sling.

At night, the milk-drunkenness will calm her down enough
that she can fall asleep, whereas playing just makes her
overtired and cranky.

Phoebe

OSPAM wrote:

I think this is true for most babies. Nursing is a natural sleep inducer for
babies, so the idea that we are somehow supposed to keep our babies awake
after
a feeding and play with them, THEN put them in their crib, awake, so they can
learn how to fall asleep on their own -- is, at best, counterintuitive, and
at
worst, well -- stupid.

I think it must have originated with someone who had a kid like my son, who did
stop going to sleep after nursing at a remarkably young age (I think two
months), and did put himself to sleep in this agreeable fashion. But he did it
because that was HIS personal way of doing things. I didn't make him do it, or
teach him how.

--Helen