Dr. Sarah shrugs as little penises are ripped and sliced en masse.

QUESTION FOR NURSE KELLY

"Kelly" wrote in message
...
LOL. I could care less about who I work with, I am there for my
patients-not the OB's and Midwifes.

Are you informing patients that semisitting closes the birth canal up to 30%
and that OBs pull with hands, forceps and vacuums KEEPING the birth canal
closed the "extra" up to 30%.

If the answer to this is yes, then I am quite pleased.

If not, then you are joining OBs and CNMwives in lying to patients by
omission.

Not only that, but it is the nurses that position the patients for pushing
and honestly, we try to make pushing as quick as possible.

Women quickly push out babies through birth canals closed up to 30% all the
time.

The object is to push a HEALTHY baby out.

Some babies are dying unexplained deaths...

Some babies are suffering unexplained paralysis...

An estimated 4.6% of "healthy" babies suffer unexplained brain bleeds.

Again Kelly...

Are you informing patients that semisitting closes the birth canal up to 30%
and that OBs pull with hands, forceps and vacuums KEEPING the birth canal
closed the "extra" up to 30%.

If the answer to this is yes, then I am quite pleased.

If not, then you are joining OBs and CNMwives in lying to patients by
omission.

Have you ever had to push with someone? I bet not.

You bet wrong.

You jump to so many conclusions-using the words *never* *ever* *always*
*lying* I don't get that lying business and I am done thinking about it



Kelly, I would LOVE to jump to the conclusion that you are not joining OBs
and CNMwives in lying to patients by omission.

ARE you telling patients that semisitting closes the birth canal up to 30%
and that OBs pull with hands, forceps and vacuums KEEPING the birth canal
closed the "extra" up to 30%?

If you aren't placing women on their sacra - semisitting or dorsal - are you
working to expose OBs and CNMwives who are?

This is the ethical thing to do.

See the AMA Principles of Medical Ethics below.

I guess there are some really sucky OB institutions that aren't
progressive or jump to mechanical deliveries.

The MAJOR OB trade union - ACOG - promotes OBs KEEPING birth canals closed
when babies get stuck.

I guess I am lucky that I work somewhere with people that actually care to
have good outcomes for people and that extend every ounce of energy into
someones birth.

I suspect you work somewhere where OBs and nurses place women
semisitting/close women's birth canals up to 30% and keep them closed when
babies get stuck.

Just a guess.

I guess that I am lucky because I have enough sense to know right from
wrong.

If you are standing meekly by as OBs and CNMwives close birth canals the
"extra" up to 30% then that is wrong.

As you say, you are their for the patients - and in a birth there are TWO -
mother and baby - and I suspect that 100% of baby patients would want you
explicitly informing mothers - but you aren't.

Please say it ain't so - I would LOVE to jump to the opposite conclusion.

I guess I am lucky because a high% of your posts do not pertain to me or
to the people I value as exceptional care providers.


Each and everyone of my "Please tell women that OBs are closing birth canals
up to 30%" posts pertains to you if you aren't telling your patients...

I suspect you are valuing as "exceptional care providers" people who are
closing birth canals up to 30%.

Please - help me jump to the opposite conclusion - tell me OBs and CNMwives
and nurses at the institution you work at do not close birth canals the
"extra" up to 30%.

At least tell me that you are either not placing women on their sacra - or
(at least) that you are explicitly informing them regarding the grisly thing
happening if you are...

Todd

PS AMA PRINCIPLES OF MEDICAL ETHICS...

As I just wrote to prominent childbirth educator Carl Jones...

A group of physicians - obstetricians - is engaging in fraud and deception -
see The Four OB Lies below.

Why not join me in publicly encouraging AMA physicians to act in accord with
AMA Principles of Medical Ethics and EXPOSE the fraud and deception of these
physicians called obstetricians, as in,

"[AMA physician[s] shall...strive to expose those physicians...who engage in
fraud or deception."

"[AMA p]hysician[s] shall...seek changes in those requirements which are
contrary to the best interests of the patient."

"[AMA p]hysician[s] shall...make relevant information available to patients,
colleagues, and the public..."
http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/eth...nions53101.cfm


THE FOUR OB LIES...

OB LIE #1. After MASSIVE change in the AP pelvic outlet diameter was
clinically demonstrated in 1911 and radiographically demonstrated in 1957,
the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that pelvic
diamaters DON'T CHANGE at delivery.

OB LIE #2. After Ohlsen pointed out in 1973 that pelvic diameters DO
change - the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that
their most frequent delivery position - dorsal - widens the outlet.

OB LIE #3. After I pointed out in 1992 that dorsal CLOSES - and so does
semisitting - the authors of Williams Obstetrics - put the correct
biomechanics in their 1993 edition - but kept in their text (in the same
paragraph!) - the dorsal widens bald lie that first called my attention to
their text...

OB LIE #4. OBs are actually KEEPING birth canals closed when babies get
stuck - and claiming they are doing everything to allow the birth canal open
maximally. (ACOG Shoulder Dystocia video - also forceps and vacuum births
are performed with the mother in lithotomy.)

See Make birth better: Dan Rather, before you leave CBS...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2983

I noted some of the OB lies in an Open Letter to the FTC years ago...
http://home1.gte.net/gastaldo/part2ftc.html

Carl,

Why do women have to ASK for the "extra" up to 30%?

Why are OBs being allowed to KEEP birth canals closed when babies get stuck?

In part, it's because of the silence of childbirth educators and the bizarre
promotion of unnatural birth customs by the likes of Yale CNMwifery Prof.
Helen Varney.

END what I just wrote to prominent childbirth educator Carl Jones...

Todd

Kelly

"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
nk.net...
KELLY'S "TOPIC CANAL"


"Kelly" wrote in message
...
Well, I do believe in the opening of the birth canals, obviously. I
have worked in OB for 12 years. I have also seen lots of progressive
changes (mostly driven by nurses) in Labor and delivery.


This explains a lot.

No WONDER you think saying OBs are lying is "harsh" - LOL! You work with
these guys!

I think saying OB's ARE LYING
THEY ARE COMMITTING CRIMES......that's a bit harsh. It isn't my style,
so be it.

But OBs *are* lying and committing crimes.

I am a discussion type person and when I see posts such as Todd's, I
either scan it for some reasonable info, or simply move on.

Good strategy Kelly. Most OBs think it "unreasonable" of me to point out
their bald lies. Nurse who work with OBs are never going to think it
reasonable to point out the obvious OB lies.

It is easy for me because I have a background in OB (and a good one to,
by the way)

MOST people with "good" backgrounds in OB (i.e., most OBs) are closing
birth canals up to 30% and keeping birth canals closed up to 30% and
lying about it.

Sad but true.

Also, rather than solely blaming OB's for closing birth canals, what
about the women who refuse to change positions?

WHAT?! This is good news! The OBs you work with tell women EXPLICITLY
that semisitting and dorsal close the birth canal - and women still
choose to close their birth canals?

My bet is that the OBs you work with pull with hands, forceps and vacuums
with the birth canal senselessly closed up to 30% - i.e. - with the woman
semistting or dorsal. This is an obvious crime.


I have seen OB's work and work on women to change positions and have an
unwilling participant.

Well blow me down - maybe I'm wrong? Maybe OBs where Kelly works never
place women semisitting or dorsal and pull with hands, ,forceps or
vacuums. Hooray! (If true.)


It happens. Whose fault is that?

If the OB explicitly informs the woman that semisitting and dorsal close
the birth canal up to 30% - and the woman chooses to close her birth
canal the "extra" up to 30% - I see your point.

But what about when the OB starts pulling on the baby's skull with
forceps?

Why on earth to OBs (not necessarily at Kelly's institution) KEEP birth
canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck?

Whose fault is that, Kelly?


What about nicely educating women on the ways to open birth canals rather
than jumping straight on the OB's and healthcare professionals?


OBs and healthcare professionals are LYING. Why are they lying?

I appreciate the fact that Todd has chosen to take part in other topics
and threads. It has only been recently that I saw a more gentle side.

My mom raised a gentle person, really.

I was first exposed to Todd about 5 years ago and saw a "freaky" side
only.

Most babes only see the "freaky" side of obstetrics. WHY are OB lying
and closing birth canals and KEEPING birth canals closed when babies get
stuck? It's FREAKY.

When I returned to MKP and saw more Todd posts I nearly jumped to
killfile, but then noticed some participation in other issues so decided
to give it a chance.

Phew!

Now rather than doing Killfile I ignore about 80% of the posts, thus
closing my topic canal by 20%. heehee.


It seems to me that you are closing your "topic canal" about 80% - but it
is late.

Have a good weekend,
Kelly

You too Kelly.

Todd


"Daye" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 21:01:01 -0800, "Kelly"
wrote:

I agree that his message is getting across, but over and over again
here
with long choppy messages gets old and may people have killfiled him.
I
find him offensive and tactless about 75% of the time-he says the same
thing
over and over so I stop reading his posts (because I know what his
point is
by now!)

So long as you get his message, he has no problem with being
killfiled. I had him killfiled for ages because I found his posts
annoying, and I had already got his message. I was also spreading the
word to other pregnant women I knew.

I don't find his posts offensive or tactless. Yes, he say the same
things over and over. But there are new pregnant women arriving daily
on this ng. They might not have gotten his main point. So he posts
it over and over because personally I feel that he thinks some
pregnant woman might not have been exposed to his message.

However, I found that once I let him out of killfile. He has a
personality and he is a funny, caring guy. Yes, he is long winded,
but I am working with him on that. We will see how it goes. Now I
scan his posts for new information, then I hit delete.

I also dislike how he uses posters full name and includes them in
"his" topics then blasts many of them.

If you saw my post on advice to him, I did mention this to him. I
don't think it is greatest way to get his message across. However,
sometimes, one feels the need to strike back at those that blast us.

He does reach and teach a lot of online people and that is great. But
a
more gentle less threatening and annoying way would help.

I agree. He is reaching and teaching. I applaud that. He sees a
problem, and he is trying to do something about it. That alone puts
him ahead of many people.

I have given him advice to get his message across better. If you have
suggestions to offer, talk with him about it. I find that if you come
from a place that is trying to help him (and his message), he is
always willing to listen. Even if you don't come from that place, he
will hear you, but he may not listen. Try it. You might be surprised
at the outcome.

--
Daye
Mommy to DD3 and DS1
Chump Change for Major Change
http://www.change4change.tk

NURSE KELLY: IT'S UNETHICAL...

"Kelly" wrote in message
...
Legally, noone under age 15 is allowed "consent." I said legally so don't
argue that point. Parents give consent. Work on them.


I do "work on" parents.

But I also work on pediatricians...

Pediatricians themselves indicate that IT'S UNETHICAL for pediatricians (or
OBs or CNMwives) to be ripping and slicing infant penises for no medical
indication, as in,
"[T]he pediatrician's responsibilities to his or her patient exist
independent of parental desires...


"...A[n infant's screaming writhing and bleeding obviously constitutes the -


TDG] patient's reluctance or refusal to assent [and - TDG] should...carry
considerable weight when the proposed intervention is not
essential to his or her welfare and/or can be deferred without substantial
risk...

"[T]hose who care for children need to provide for measures to solicit
assent and to attend to possible abuses of 'raw' power over children when
ethical conflicts occur."
AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS
Informed Consent, Parental Permission, and Assent in Pediatric
Practice(RE9510)
Pediatrics Volume 95, Number 2 February, 1995, p. 314-317
http://www.aap.org/policy/00662.html



I have never personally witnessed a woman *flat* on her back give birth.

How about semisitting? Semisitting closes the birth canal up to 30% WITH
MORE FORCE than *flat* on her back...

Honestly. I am not stupid and wouldn't allow that in one of my delivery
rooms.

Are you doing birth-canal-closing/semisitting deliveries?

99% of the nurses I work with are the same. I am sure it happens, but not
in my presence.


Could you ask 100% of the nurses you work with if THEY are doing
birth-canal-closing/semisitting deliveries?

My institution sees a lot of epidural deliveries,

Sounds like birth-canal-closing semisitting deliveries. : (

but we also see *a lot* of women delivery sidelying, hands and knees,
squat bar, standing, and the occasional "oops" water birth, sitting on
toilet birth, and standing.


This is great!

Most unoptimal delivery positions are patient guided. Most optimal
delivery positions are healthcare provider guided. At least where I work.


If patients aren't being explicitly informed that the "unoptimal"
semisitting and dorsal delivery positions close the birth canal up to 30%
then a lie of omission is being told by "healthcare" providers...

I appreciate your crusade topic, I disapprove of your mannerism and your
words. My issue, not anyone else's or yours.

Leave me alone, at least 90% of the time. I'll ignore the 10%.


Just killfile me and don't mention me in your posts. Simple, no?

Warmly,
Kelly

Kelly, you do not sound too warm to me. In this post you seem to have
indicated that birth-canal-closing/semisitting births are occurring in your
delivery rooms in spite of the fact that you said: "Honestly. I am not
stupid and wouldn't allow that in one of my delivery rooms."

If you aren't allowing women to close their birth canals - BRAVO!

If you are - please stop - and please work to stop others.

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo





"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
news

"Kelly" wrote in message
...
ps, I still do not understand the rude subject head of this thread. I
am *not* pretending anything. Just expressing what I see in person in
the OB realm.


If you were not pretending - then you were wrong about what you said.

Either that or OBs at your institution are getting consent from infant to
rip and slice their penises (this would be amazing!) and OBs at your
institution aren't doing semisitting or dorsal deliveries...

I highly doubt the former - and the latter is also doubtful - but I
would LOVE to hear that OBs at Kelly's institution are not closing birth
canals, etc.

Here's my original reply.

KELLY PRETENDS; JAMIE AGREES

Kelly wrote:

Todd,
I wonder how often you are working in labor and delivery and in a
newborn nursery? Do you in person see all these things you claim?
Also, are doctors doing circs without consent? I highly doubt it-it is
a choice of parents, so the parents are requesting this to be done.

Kelly pretends that I must work in labor and delivery to know that OBs
are
routinely closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping them closed when
babies
get stuck.

Kelly also pretends that MDs obtain consent before ripping and slicing
infant penises en masse and that it is ethical for MDs to rip and slice
infant penises en masse.

Perhaps Kelly isn't pretending?

Perhaps Kelly really believes, for example, that one must work in labor
and
delivery to know that OBs are routinely closing birth canals up to 30%,
etc.?

Kelly offered no substantiation for her inferences/pretenses and she
hasn't
replied to my post...

See I don't need to see the MD felonies...
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...4cf50194d30983

Kelly said I am driving her crazy...

You are currently driving me crazy, and just when I was sort of
softening up to you


It starts to drive ME crazy when people make false assertions - but
instead
of going crazy I answer them point by point (see URL above) and hope that
they will either show me where I am wrong or concede my points.

Well, then be pleased with me and my coworkers.

Kelly

"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
ink.net...
QUESTION FOR NURSE KELLY

"Kelly" wrote in message
...
LOL. I could care less about who I work with, I am there for my
patients-not the OB's and Midwifes.

Are you informing patients that semisitting closes the birth canal up to
30% and that OBs pull with hands, forceps and vacuums KEEPING the birth
canal closed the "extra" up to 30%.

If the answer to this is yes, then I am quite pleased.

If not, then you are joining OBs and CNMwives in lying to patients by
omission.

Not only that, but it is the nurses that position the patients for
pushing and honestly, we try to make pushing as quick as possible.

Women quickly push out babies through birth canals closed up to 30% all
the time.

The object is to push a HEALTHY baby out.

Some babies are dying unexplained deaths...

Some babies are suffering unexplained paralysis...

An estimated 4.6% of "healthy" babies suffer unexplained brain bleeds.

Again Kelly...

Are you informing patients that semisitting closes the birth canal up to
30% and that OBs pull with hands, forceps and vacuums KEEPING the birth
canal closed the "extra" up to 30%.

If the answer to this is yes, then I am quite pleased.

If not, then you are joining OBs and CNMwives in lying to patients by
omission.

Have you ever had to push with someone? I bet not.

You bet wrong.

You jump to so many conclusions-using the words *never* *ever* *always*
*lying* I don't get that lying business and I am done thinking about it



Kelly, I would LOVE to jump to the conclusion that you are not joining OBs
and CNMwives in lying to patients by omission.

ARE you telling patients that semisitting closes the birth canal up to 30%
and that OBs pull with hands, forceps and vacuums KEEPING the birth canal
closed the "extra" up to 30%?

If you aren't placing women on their sacra - semisitting or dorsal - are
you working to expose OBs and CNMwives who are?

This is the ethical thing to do.

See the AMA Principles of Medical Ethics below.

I guess there are some really sucky OB institutions that aren't
progressive or jump to mechanical deliveries.

The MAJOR OB trade union - ACOG - promotes OBs KEEPING birth canals closed
when babies get stuck.

I guess I am lucky that I work somewhere with people that actually care
to have good outcomes for people and that extend every ounce of energy
into someones birth.

I suspect you work somewhere where OBs and nurses place women
semisitting/close women's birth canals up to 30% and keep them closed when
babies get stuck.

Just a guess.

I guess that I am lucky because I have enough sense to know right from
wrong.

If you are standing meekly by as OBs and CNMwives close birth canals the
"extra" up to 30% then that is wrong.

As you say, you are their for the patients - and in a birth there are
TWO - mother and baby - and I suspect that 100% of baby patients would
want you explicitly informing mothers - but you aren't.

Please say it ain't so - I would LOVE to jump to the opposite conclusion.

I guess I am lucky because a high% of your posts do not pertain to me or
to the people I value as exceptional care providers.


Each and everyone of my "Please tell women that OBs are closing birth
canals up to 30%" posts pertains to you if you aren't telling your
patients...

I suspect you are valuing as "exceptional care providers" people who are
closing birth canals up to 30%.

Please - help me jump to the opposite conclusion - tell me OBs and
CNMwives and nurses at the institution you work at do not close birth
canals the "extra" up to 30%.

At least tell me that you are either not placing women on their sacra - or
(at least) that you are explicitly informing them regarding the grisly
thing happening if you are...

Todd

PS AMA PRINCIPLES OF MEDICAL ETHICS...

As I just wrote to prominent childbirth educator Carl Jones...

A group of physicians - obstetricians - is engaging in fraud and
deception -
see The Four OB Lies below.

Why not join me in publicly encouraging AMA physicians to act in accord
with
AMA Principles of Medical Ethics and EXPOSE the fraud and deception of
these
physicians called obstetricians, as in,

"[AMA physician[s] shall...strive to expose those physicians...who engage
in
fraud or deception."

"[AMA p]hysician[s] shall...seek changes in those requirements which are
contrary to the best interests of the patient."

"[AMA p]hysician[s] shall...make relevant information available to
patients,
colleagues, and the public..."
http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/eth...nions53101.cfm


THE FOUR OB LIES...

OB LIE #1. After MASSIVE change in the AP pelvic outlet diameter was
clinically demonstrated in 1911 and radiographically demonstrated in 1957,
the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that pelvic
diamaters DON'T CHANGE at delivery.

OB LIE #2. After Ohlsen pointed out in 1973 that pelvic diameters DO
change - the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming
that
their most frequent delivery position - dorsal - widens the outlet.

OB LIE #3. After I pointed out in 1992 that dorsal CLOSES - and so does
semisitting - the authors of Williams Obstetrics - put the correct
biomechanics in their 1993 edition - but kept in their text (in the same
paragraph!) - the dorsal widens bald lie that first called my attention to
their text...

OB LIE #4. OBs are actually KEEPING birth canals closed when babies get
stuck - and claiming they are doing everything to allow the birth canal
open
maximally. (ACOG Shoulder Dystocia video - also forceps and vacuum births
are performed with the mother in lithotomy.)

See Make birth better: Dan Rather, before you leave CBS...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2983

I noted some of the OB lies in an Open Letter to the FTC years ago...
http://home1.gte.net/gastaldo/part2ftc.html

Carl,

Why do women have to ASK for the "extra" up to 30%?

Why are OBs being allowed to KEEP birth canals closed when babies get
stuck?

In part, it's because of the silence of childbirth educators and the
bizarre
promotion of unnatural birth customs by the likes of Yale CNMwifery Prof.
Helen Varney.

END what I just wrote to prominent childbirth educator Carl Jones...

Todd

Kelly

"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
nk.net...
KELLY'S "TOPIC CANAL"


"Kelly" wrote in message
...
Well, I do believe in the opening of the birth canals, obviously. I
have worked in OB for 12 years. I have also seen lots of progressive
changes (mostly driven by nurses) in Labor and delivery.


This explains a lot.

No WONDER you think saying OBs are lying is "harsh" - LOL! You work
with these guys!

I think saying OB's ARE LYING
THEY ARE COMMITTING CRIMES......that's a bit harsh. It isn't my style,
so be it.

But OBs *are* lying and committing crimes.

I am a discussion type person and when I see posts such as Todd's, I
either scan it for some reasonable info, or simply move on.

Good strategy Kelly. Most OBs think it "unreasonable" of me to point
out their bald lies. Nurse who work with OBs are never going to think
it reasonable to point out the obvious OB lies.

It is easy for me because I have a background in OB (and a good one to,
by the way)

MOST people with "good" backgrounds in OB (i.e., most OBs) are closing
birth canals up to 30% and keeping birth canals closed up to 30% and
lying about it.

Sad but true.

Also, rather than solely blaming OB's for closing birth canals, what
about the women who refuse to change positions?

WHAT?! This is good news! The OBs you work with tell women EXPLICITLY
that semisitting and dorsal close the birth canal - and women still
choose to close their birth canals?

My bet is that the OBs you work with pull with hands, forceps and
vacuums with the birth canal senselessly closed up to 30% - i.e. - with
the woman semistting or dorsal. This is an obvious crime.


I have seen OB's work and work on women to change positions and have
an unwilling participant.

Well blow me down - maybe I'm wrong? Maybe OBs where Kelly works never
place women semisitting or dorsal and pull with hands, ,forceps or
vacuums. Hooray! (If true.)


It happens. Whose fault is that?

If the OB explicitly informs the woman that semisitting and dorsal close
the birth canal up to 30% - and the woman chooses to close her birth
canal the "extra" up to 30% - I see your point.

But what about when the OB starts pulling on the baby's skull with
forceps?

Why on earth to OBs (not necessarily at Kelly's institution) KEEP birth
canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck?

Whose fault is that, Kelly?


What about nicely educating women on the ways to open birth canals
rather than jumping straight on the OB's and healthcare professionals?


OBs and healthcare professionals are LYING. Why are they lying?

I appreciate the fact that Todd has chosen to take part in other topics
and threads. It has only been recently that I saw a more gentle side.

My mom raised a gentle person, really.

I was first exposed to Todd about 5 years ago and saw a "freaky" side
only.

Most babes only see the "freaky" side of obstetrics. WHY are OB lying
and closing birth canals and KEEPING birth canals closed when babies get
stuck? It's FREAKY.

When I returned to MKP and saw more Todd posts I nearly jumped to
killfile, but then noticed some participation in other issues so
decided to give it a chance.

Phew!

Now rather than doing Killfile I ignore about 80% of the posts, thus
closing my topic canal by 20%. heehee.


It seems to me that you are closing your "topic canal" about 80% - but
it is late.

Have a good weekend,
Kelly

You too Kelly.

Todd


"Daye" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 21:01:01 -0800, "Kelly"
wrote:

I agree that his message is getting across, but over and over again
here
with long choppy messages gets old and may people have killfiled him.
I
find him offensive and tactless about 75% of the time-he says the same
thing
over and over so I stop reading his posts (because I know what his
point is
by now!)

So long as you get his message, he has no problem with being
killfiled. I had him killfiled for ages because I found his posts
annoying, and I had already got his message. I was also spreading the
word to other pregnant women I knew.

I don't find his posts offensive or tactless. Yes, he say the same
things over and over. But there are new pregnant women arriving daily
on this ng. They might not have gotten his main point. So he posts
it over and over because personally I feel that he thinks some
pregnant woman might not have been exposed to his message.

However, I found that once I let him out of killfile. He has a
personality and he is a funny, caring guy. Yes, he is long winded,
but I am working with him on that. We will see how it goes. Now I
scan his posts for new information, then I hit delete.

I also dislike how he uses posters full name and includes them in
"his" topics then blasts many of them.

If you saw my post on advice to him, I did mention this to him. I
don't think it is greatest way to get his message across. However,
sometimes, one feels the need to strike back at those that blast us.

He does reach and teach a lot of online people and that is great. But
a
more gentle less threatening and annoying way would help.

I agree. He is reaching and teaching. I applaud that. He sees a
problem, and he is trying to do something about it. That alone puts
him ahead of many people.

I have given him advice to get his message across better. If you have
suggestions to offer, talk with him about it. I find that if you come
from a place that is trying to help him (and his message), he is
always willing to listen. Even if you don't come from that place, he
will hear you, but he may not listen. Try it. You might be surprised
at the outcome.

--
Daye
Mommy to DD3 and DS1
Chump Change for Major Change
http://www.change4change.tk

BTW, I am a very *warm* and nice person, but some people these days make me
prickly. Blame it on the 35+week gestation.

Kelly

"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
nk.net...
NURSE KELLY: IT'S UNETHICAL...

"Kelly" wrote in message
...
Legally, noone under age 15 is allowed "consent." I said legally so
don't argue that point. Parents give consent. Work on them.


I do "work on" parents.

But I also work on pediatricians...

Pediatricians themselves indicate that IT'S UNETHICAL for pediatricians
(or OBs or CNMwives) to be ripping and slicing infant penises for no
medical indication, as in,
"[T]he pediatrician's responsibilities to his or her patient exist
independent of parental desires...


"...A[n infant's screaming writhing and bleeding obviously constitutes
the -


TDG] patient's reluctance or refusal to assent [and - TDG] should...carry
considerable weight when the proposed intervention is not
essential to his or her welfare and/or can be deferred without substantial
risk...

"[T]hose who care for children need to provide for measures to solicit
assent and to attend to possible abuses of 'raw' power over children when
ethical conflicts occur."
AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS
Informed Consent, Parental Permission, and Assent in Pediatric
Practice(RE9510)
Pediatrics Volume 95, Number 2 February, 1995, p. 314-317
http://www.aap.org/policy/00662.html



I have never personally witnessed a woman *flat* on her back give birth.

How about semisitting? Semisitting closes the birth canal up to 30% WITH
MORE FORCE than *flat* on her back...

Honestly. I am not stupid and wouldn't allow that in one of my delivery
rooms.

Are you doing birth-canal-closing/semisitting deliveries?

99% of the nurses I work with are the same. I am sure it happens, but
not in my presence.


Could you ask 100% of the nurses you work with if THEY are doing
birth-canal-closing/semisitting deliveries?

My institution sees a lot of epidural deliveries,

Sounds like birth-canal-closing semisitting deliveries. : (

but we also see *a lot* of women delivery sidelying, hands and knees,
squat bar, standing, and the occasional "oops" water birth, sitting on
toilet birth, and standing.


This is great!

Most unoptimal delivery positions are patient guided. Most optimal
delivery positions are healthcare provider guided. At least where I
work.


If patients aren't being explicitly informed that the "unoptimal"
semisitting and dorsal delivery positions close the birth canal up to 30%
then a lie of omission is being told by "healthcare" providers...

I appreciate your crusade topic, I disapprove of your mannerism and your
words. My issue, not anyone else's or yours.

Leave me alone, at least 90% of the time. I'll ignore the 10%.


Just killfile me and don't mention me in your posts. Simple, no?

Warmly,
Kelly

Kelly, you do not sound too warm to me. In this post you seem to have
indicated that birth-canal-closing/semisitting births are occurring in
your delivery rooms in spite of the fact that you said: "Honestly. I am
not stupid and wouldn't allow that in one of my delivery rooms."

If you aren't allowing women to close their birth canals - BRAVO!

If you are - please stop - and please work to stop others.

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo





"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
news

"Kelly" wrote in message
...
ps, I still do not understand the rude subject head of this thread. I
am *not* pretending anything. Just expressing what I see in person in
the OB realm.


If you were not pretending - then you were wrong about what you said.

Either that or OBs at your institution are getting consent from infant
to rip and slice their penises (this would be amazing!) and OBs at your
institution aren't doing semisitting or dorsal deliveries...

I highly doubt the former - and the latter is also doubtful - but I
would LOVE to hear that OBs at Kelly's institution are not closing
birth canals, etc.

Here's my original reply.

KELLY PRETENDS; JAMIE AGREES

Kelly wrote:

Todd,
I wonder how often you are working in labor and delivery and in a
newborn nursery? Do you in person see all these things you claim?
Also, are doctors doing circs without consent? I highly doubt it-it
is a choice of parents, so the parents are requesting this to be done.

Kelly pretends that I must work in labor and delivery to know that OBs
are
routinely closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping them closed when
babies
get stuck.

Kelly also pretends that MDs obtain consent before ripping and slicing
infant penises en masse and that it is ethical for MDs to rip and slice
infant penises en masse.

Perhaps Kelly isn't pretending?

Perhaps Kelly really believes, for example, that one must work in labor
and
delivery to know that OBs are routinely closing birth canals up to 30%,
etc.?

Kelly offered no substantiation for her inferences/pretenses and she
hasn't
replied to my post...

See I don't need to see the MD felonies...
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...4cf50194d30983

Kelly said I am driving her crazy...

You are currently driving me crazy, and just when I was sort of
softening up to you


It starts to drive ME crazy when people make false assertions - but
instead
of going crazy I answer them point by point (see URL above) and hope
that
they will either show me where I am wrong or concede my points.