How to tie shoelaces

Chookie wrote:
How the heck do you teach a child to do it? DS1 is 5 1/2 yo. Tried this
morning, again. He couldn't/wouldn't even copy holding the laces 5cm from the
thumb knot (the knot you make to start), let alone *make* the thumb knot.
Fortunately his school shoes have velcro -- a deliberate choice by me!

At what age do kids typically learn to tie their shoelaces? And how do you
teach it?

Shaina learned to tie her shoes quite late. I don't recall exactly, but
she's was probably 8ish before the mastered the 'bunny ears' method,
and several years older before she she could do the standard tie. I
think she had (and has) really small hands and just couldn't hold onto
the loops without them slipping apart. (I still remember that on the
kindergarten readiness list, that was the ONLY skill she didn't have at
5 1/2!)

(Even up to a couple of years ago she had trouble with it. She just
doesn't do it that often [most of her shoes don't have laces, and those
that do she still tends to just slip on and off without tying/untying
them.)

Naomi

bizby40 wrote:
"toypup" wrote in message
et...
DS is 5yo and he's got the first step down, crossing one lace under
the other. Now, I've just got to show him to make two bunny ears
and cross them again. The two bunny ears method was what I remember
learning first as a child, then I graduated to the more common
method later on. Anyway, to answer your question, our school
requires the children know how by first grade, because the teachers
don't want to tie 30 children's shoelaces several times a day.

I must say that the more you talk about your school, the more I
dislike it. I'm glad it's a good fit for you, but gosh, it seems like
they are just chock full of pressure about almost everything. Do they
require kids to wear tie shoes too? One of the most popular styles of
sneakers at the moment are no-tie. They are permanently laced with
somewhat elastic laces, and you just slip them on.

Some schools don't permit the elastic type of sneakers for gym
(although I suppose they would permit them other days); I can't recall
the reason -- perhaps they're not sufficiently supportive for
athletics?

I think that kids are learning to tie shoes later and later because of
velcro. One learned in kindergarten (and promptly demanded only velcro
sneakers for the next several years); I think some kids at his school
didn't learn until much later than that! I don't think I'd be offended
by or fine a rule that kids either have to tie their own shoes by 1st
grade too onerous, although a *must tie* rule would be. What would
they do with kids with fine motor skills delays, with or without an
IEP?

Barbara

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
How the heck do you teach a child to do it? DS1 is 5 1/2 yo. Tried this
morning, again. He couldn't/wouldn't even copy holding the laces 5cm from
the
thumb knot (the knot you make to start), let alone *make* the thumb knot.
Fortunately his school shoes have velcro -- a deliberate choice by me!

At what age do kids typically learn to tie their shoelaces? And how do
you
teach it?

I think a lot of times, kids don't learn to tie shoes until they join a
soccer or baseball team because those shoes require tying. As a coach, I
spent a lot of time tying kids shoes.

Jeff
--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You
may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

"Barbara" wrote in message
oups.com...
Some schools don't permit the elastic type of sneakers for gym
(although I suppose they would permit them other days); I can't
recall
the reason -- perhaps they're not sufficiently supportive for
athletics?

This would seem to be a strange rule for grade school where athletics
don't tend to be too intense. And poorly tied shoes, or those that
have come untied and are dragging laces around would seem to be more
of a danger. I'm not doubting that schools exist with that rule, but
it seems a misguided rule for grade school to me.

Requiring proper shoes for specific sports like baseball or soccer
makes a bit more sense. But I tie my kids' shoes for those events
even though they're capable of tying their own shoes, because I know I
can tie them tighter and more securely.

I don't think I'd be offended
by or fine a rule that kids either have to tie their own shoes by
1st
grade too onerous, although a *must tie* rule would be.

I'm sorry, but I can't parse this sentence. What's the difference
between "have to tie their own shoes" and "must tie"? And what does
"either" refer to?

What would
they do with kids with fine motor skills delays, with or without an
IEP?

I suppose that with an IEP, the school would have to work with them.
Without one....numerous fruitless parent consultations?

Bizby

"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"Barbara" wrote in message Requiring proper shoes
for specific sports like baseball or soccer makes a bit more sense. But I
tie my kids' shoes for those events even though they're capable of tying
their own shoes, because I know I can tie them tighter and more securely.

I don't think I'd be offended
by or fine a rule that kids either have to tie their own shoes by 1st
grade too onerous, although a *must tie* rule would be.

I'm sorry, but I can't parse this sentence. What's the difference between
"have to tie their own shoes" and "must tie"? And what does "either"
refer to?

I read it as she's okay with a rule about kids having to tie their own shoes
if they are wearing tie shoes, but she doesn't like a rule where they must
wear tie shoes and therefore must tie them.

"toypup" wrote in message
et...

"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"Barbara" wrote in message Requiring proper
shoes for specific sports like baseball or soccer makes a bit more
sense. But I tie my kids' shoes for those events even though
they're capable of tying their own shoes, because I know I can tie
them tighter and more securely.

I don't think I'd be offended
by or fine a rule that kids either have to tie their own shoes by
1st
grade too onerous, although a *must tie* rule would be.

I'm sorry, but I can't parse this sentence. What's the difference
between "have to tie their own shoes" and "must tie"? And what
does "either" refer to?

I read it as she's okay with a rule about kids having to tie their
own shoes if they are wearing tie shoes, but she doesn't like a rule
where they must wear tie shoes and therefore must tie them.

Oh, I see. I'd agree with that too. I can understand not wanting to
tie 20 pairs of shoes.

Bizby

"toypup" wrote in message
et...

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
How the heck do you teach a child to do it? DS1 is 5 1/2 yo. Tried this
morning, again. He couldn't/wouldn't even copy holding the laces 5cm
from the
thumb knot (the knot you make to start), let alone *make* the thumb knot.
Fortunately his school shoes have velcro -- a deliberate choice by me!

At what age do kids typically learn to tie their shoelaces? And how do
you
teach it?

DS is 5yo and he's got the first step down, crossing one lace under the
other. Now, I've just got to show him to make two bunny ears and cross
them again. The two bunny ears method was what I remember learning first
as a child, then I graduated to the more common method later on. Anyway,
to answer your question, our school requires the children know how by
first grade, because the teachers don't want to tie 30 children's
shoelaces several times a day.

Just wondering .. if the school "requires" to know how to tie their shoes by
the first grade, what do they do if the child doesn't?
My 7 year old can't do it ... and I'm no longer pushing her ... as it stands
I'll do what I can to buy her non tie shoes .. but I can't always do that.
So the teacher is going to have to tie a shoe here and there.

"Knit Chic" wrote in message
om...

"toypup" wrote in message
et...

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
How the heck do you teach a child to do it? DS1 is 5 1/2 yo. Tried
this
morning, again. He couldn't/wouldn't even copy holding the laces 5cm
from the
thumb knot (the knot you make to start), let alone *make* the thumb
knot.
Fortunately his school shoes have velcro -- a deliberate choice by me!

At what age do kids typically learn to tie their shoelaces? And how do
you
teach it?

DS is 5yo and he's got the first step down, crossing one lace under the
other. Now, I've just got to show him to make two bunny ears and cross
them again. The two bunny ears method was what I remember learning
first
as a child, then I graduated to the more common method later on.
Anyway,
to answer your question, our school requires the children know how by
first grade, because the teachers don't want to tie 30 children's
shoelaces several times a day.

Just wondering .. if the school "requires" to know how to tie their shoes
by
the first grade, what do they do if the child doesn't?
My 7 year old can't do it ... and I'm no longer pushing her ... as it
stands
I'll do what I can to buy her non tie shoes .. but I can't always do that.
So the teacher is going to have to tie a shoe here and there.

Well, one of the kindergarten teachers at my previous school refuses to tie
children's shoes-or to teach children to tie their own shoes, claiming
that's the parent's job. The result is that in her class, the few kids who
are pretty advanced in this area end up tying anyone's shoes who need tying
(either those who are almost 6 starting kindergarten due to cutoffs, were
retained, or were redshirted a year-from what I've seen most young 5s simply
can't do it yet, while most 6's are at least heading in that direction), or
the kids' shoes stay untied until they go to PE or music, where the teachers
absolutely WILL tie shoelaces because it's a danger to the child for them to
be untied since the kids are up and moving.I'm sure she thinks she's
teaching a great lesson in independence, and she makes a big deal about "not
letting parents walk all over you", but really, she's just taking the
annoyance off her back and putting it on someone else's-and probably
delaying the day when the children DO tie their own shoes since she's not
providing practice in that area.

"Jeff" wrote in message
k.net...
I think a lot of times, kids don't learn to tie shoes until they join a
soccer or baseball team because those shoes require tying. As a coach, I
spent a lot of time tying kids shoes.

As a coach I bought my whole team those "sweet spot" things (elastic sleeves
that go over the laces on soccer shoes) so that I wouldn't spend the whole
game tying shoes. It worked out well. I've also seen teams that have a
parent assigned as "shoe tyer". They would double tie all shoes before the
game, and then stand in a certain place so kid's who's shoes still came
untied would run to them to get the shoes retied.

I certainly can understand that a teacher wouldn't want to tie all the kids
shoes. I think it is a parent's responsibility to send kids to school in
clothes the child can handle on their own. If a child cannot yet tie their
own shoes, then they get sent to school in shoes that don't have ties. How
hard is that.

bizby40 wrote:
"Barbara" wrote in message
oups.com...
Some schools don't permit the elastic type of sneakers for gym
(although I suppose they would permit them other days); I can't
recall
the reason -- perhaps they're not sufficiently supportive for
athletics?

This would seem to be a strange rule for grade school where athletics
don't tend to be too intense. And poorly tied shoes, or those that
have come untied and are dragging laces around would seem to be more
of a danger. I'm not doubting that schools exist with that rule, but
it seems a misguided rule for grade school to me.

Requiring proper shoes for specific sports like baseball or soccer
makes a bit more sense. But I tie my kids' shoes for those events
even though they're capable of tying their own shoes, because I know I
can tie them tighter and more securely.

Welll, the gym dept of our school must have seen those shoes fly off
too many kids to permit them. Don't the kids play baseball and soccer
in gym at your school? Our kids do, along with basketball (and, heaven
help me, the boys organized their own football league at recess).

I don't think I'd be offended
by or fine a rule that kids either have to tie their own shoes by
1st
grade too onerous, although a *must tie* rule would be.

I'm sorry, but I can't parse this sentence. What's the difference
between "have to tie their own shoes" and "must tie"? And what does
"either" refer to?

Well, if you MUST tie, then the rule applies even if the kid is wearing
velcro. Sort of like the tests that the local public schools make kids
pass in 3d grade and -- I forget what other grades. Pass or repeat.
I'd object to that. But I have no problem with a rule that if you wear
shoes with ties, then you have to know how to tie them.

Barbara