child proof open staircase

Fellow parents,
We are interested in buying a three story house which has a very open
floor plan. Particularly, the stairs are in the middle of an open
atrium, and there are only railings on both sides of the stairs, no
dry walls. You can overlook the first floor entrance from the rooms
and hallways on the second and third floor.

The house is beautiful because of its openness, but we are concerned
about how to childproof it. I know you can put plaxiglass on the
railings so that our little one won't slip through. But I am more
worried that he might stand on a chair and might fall over the
railings from upstairs into the atrium. We were told that we could let
the plaxiglass panels to extend higher than the railings, but we are
not sure if that will give us complete comfort and plus they are not
going to look pretty.

Does anyone have a good idea on how to make such kind of open
staircases child proof? I guess we could always put in higher
railings, but that may be too expensive to do. We also thought about
putting some kind of net between the ceiling and the railings, but is
there such kind of product available?

We would really appreciate it if you have any thoughts or advice you
could share with us. Thanks!

Nina

How old are your kids? At our last apartment we had stairs, too. Though
not right in the middle of the room but along one wall. I didn't have
chairs upstairs that were high enough for Sam to climb or fall over the
railing and I told him over and over and over that he's not to stand on
things next to the railing. We moved there when Sam was just over half a
year old and we moved out when he was 5.

He "fell" down a few steps on the bottom twice but he only bumped his
arm once and the second time he didn't even bump anything. (I fell down
the steps a few times, too because they were really short steps and they
went around two corners) Once he "rode" down one step with a chair (the
kind you kneel on and it has wheels) and bumped his head on the rails.
That was pretty bad and I've never been that scared in my life (I was
right there, I had just turned around for maybe 5 seconds to move his
playpen so I could hop into the shower*). He ended up with two large
bruises on his forhead and I called an ambulance (Yeah, totally
panicked), they checked him but everything was fine, so we were really
lucky.

We had a gate at the top and a cloth thingy my mother sewed for us at
the bottom while he was little so he couldn't walk up and/or down by
himself. That worked really well.

If you can keep chairs away from the upstairs area around the stairs and
if your children are old enough to understand that it's dangerous to
climb on the railings I think you'd be pretty safe. Falling down the
stairs can't be totally prevented, I mean, even adults slip and fall
every now and then, there's just nothing you can do about that.
You can put cloth "barriers" on the top and bottom and even the sides
can be covered like that I guess, if you like the look and don't prefer
plexiglas (which would have to be screwed on somehow, while cloth can be
tied on or velcro-d on or buttoned on). There's always a way to
childproof things, you probably wouldn't move out of that house if you
were already living there, just because you now have children.

take care
nicole


*no, the shower wan't in the middle of the room or anything, but the
bathroom was on that floor and his playpen went in front of the door so
he could still see me while I was in the bathroom.

Does anyone have a good idea on how to make such kind of open
staircases child proof? I guess we could always put in higher
railings, but that may be too expensive to do. We also thought about
putting some kind of net between the ceiling and the railings, but is
there such kind of product available?

I went to a child safey seminar, the rule on railings and the like was no
more than 4 inches, so if the railings are less than that apart and the gap
at the bottom is less, then you are fine from the perspective.

The potential to climb over them is a different matter, I don't recall any
specific guideline for minimum height, though I'm sure there is one, I know
some states have a rule for the height of fences round a deck, so the same
would be sensible for a stair case, then you have to make sure there is
nothing they can climb on so the railings need to be vertical only, and not
decorative some decorative ones that you'd find in older houses in the UK
(probably not in the US) have little nooks and cranny's you could get a foot
hold on.

I don't think netting is going to do it, it would have to be very very
strong and that would be difficult to secure at the ceiling and at the top
of the railings, you have to go for the approach of an optimum height and
spacing to minimise the risk, then gate bottom and top along with
supervision. You have to make sure the kid cannot be there alone and also
have access to a chair that they could move into position. How old is your
child? I know you cannot entirely rely on training them, but it's a big step
in the right direction, you designate areas they cannot be alone and punish
firmly if you find them there. Then you make those areas unattractive
places, so an open atrium becomes a formal sitting area with nothing
interesting and the play area, TV etc are in a safe place.
Cheers

Anne

wrote in message
oups.com...
The house is beautiful because of its openness, but we are concerned
about how to childproof it. I know you can put plaxiglass on the
railings so that our little one won't slip through. But I am more
worried that he might stand on a chair and might fall over the
railings from upstairs into the atrium. We were told that we could let
the plaxiglass panels to extend higher than the railings, but we are
not sure if that will give us complete comfort and plus they are not
going to look pretty.

Does anyone have a good idea on how to make such kind of open
staircases child proof? I guess we could always put in higher
railings, but that may be too expensive to do. We also thought about
putting some kind of net between the ceiling and the railings, but is
there such kind of product available?

You are thinking a floor to ceiling net will look better than high
plexiglass? I'm sure you can find something to childproof the stairs if you
love the house. And keep in mind, the children get bigger, much faster than
you imagined. You don't need to childproof for a 10 year old, or, in most
cases, a five year old. So any safety changes you make, no matter how ugly,
are temporary. And will match the clutter that goes with small children.

Now, imagine daughter or daughter in law coming down those stairs in her
wedding dress.

wrote:
Fellow parents,
We are interested in buying a three story house which has a very open
floor plan. Particularly, the stairs are in the middle of an open
atrium, and there are only railings on both sides of the stairs, no
dry walls. You can overlook the first floor entrance from the rooms
and hallways on the second and third floor.

With an open floor plan like that, I think the easier
thing to do is make some parts of the house safe and make
sure that you supervise the child elsewhere. It's not like
you need the place childproofed forever. It's actually a
relatively short period of time for each child. So, I'd
childproof some area on each floor and make it so that the
child cannot escape those areas. Then, when your attention
is on the child, the child can have the run of the house.
If you are going to be distracted, you hang out in one of
the "safe" zones. It seems counter-productive to me to
knock yourself out to childproof a stair and an atrium
that are going to be outrageously expensive and time-consuming
to childproof (not to mention how it would likely detract
from the look of the home), especially given that this is
not the most critical part of the home for your child to
be in.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Anne Rogers" wrote:

Does anyone have a good idea on how to make such kind of open
staircases child proof? I guess we could always put in higher
railings, but that may be too expensive to do. We also thought about
putting some kind of net between the ceiling and the railings, but is
there such kind of product available?
snip

The potential to climb over them is a different matter, I don't recall any
specific guideline for minimum height, though I'm sure there is one, I know

I never had a problem with children climbing on chairs to get over top
of railings. Most of the time they found other ways to get into
trouble.

Really -- if this is going to be a problem, it is going to be a VERY
short term problem. When they are toddlers (strong enough to move the
chair and old enough not to have you watching them all the time), I
would just move all moveable furniture out of the area. It is when
they are enough to circumvent any child proofing (say 10 years old),
that they are going to break their arms trying to tightrope along the
top of the railing or something like that.

some states have a rule for the height of fences round a deck, so the same
would be sensible for a stair case, then you have to make sure there is
nothing they can climb on so the railings need to be vertical only, and not
decorative some decorative ones that you'd find in older houses in the UK
(probably not in the US) have little nooks and cranny's you could get a foot
hold on.

This completely true. We lived in a split level house where the
middle landing was slate, and the half flight of stairs up to the main
floor was carpeted and the railing was wood. The half flight down was
thin carpet over concrete. For whatever reason, when my son was about
2, and could go up and down the stairs by himself with no problem, he
climbed the stairs up from the middle landing on the outside of the
railing, over the down stairs. Then, of course he couldn't get over
the railing at the top and had to be rescued. He didn't get hurt.

I did also live in a row house in So. Philly when dd#3 was 8 to 14
months. I didn't have the stairs gated, and she did crawl up and down
them, and she did roll down the stairs once. But she didn't get hurt.

We have an open staircase as well. The railings haven't been an issue-our DD
was 1 1/2 when we moved in, and the only time she's been on the staircase
has been when we've been with her-, and I don't think she'd fit through
anyway. We did get a really, really tall/strong metal gate for the bottom of
the stairs-one designed for pretty large dogs, not toddlers. It does not
have cross bars, so isn't easily climbable, and is big enough that even my 6
ft husband can't just step over it. It attaches at top and bottom into the
bannisters.

On 13 May 2007 09:14:50 -0700, wrote:

Does anyone have a good idea on how to make such kind of open
staircases child proof? I guess we could always put in higher
railings, but that may be too expensive to do. We also thought about
putting some kind of net between the ceiling and the railings, but is
there such kind of product available?

We have such an open plan. We just didn't let the children near the
stairway without supervision when they were toddlers or younger. They were
corraled in their rooms or the family room or whatnot. I briefly tried the
net thing, but it ddin't look like it would work well. The kids can lift
it up, because it didn't tie down at the bottom and the gaps of the
railings weren't really big enough for them to fit through anyway. They
never really tried to climb it, though they'd stand on the bottom rail.

On May 13, 6:13 pm, toypup wrote:
On 13 May 2007 09:14:50 -0700, wrote:

Does anyone have a good idea on how to make such kind ofopen
staircases child proof? I guess we could always put in higher
railings, but that may be too expensive to do. We also thought about
putting some kind of net between the ceiling and the railings, but is
there such kind of product available?

We have such anopenplan. We just didn't let the children near the
stairway without supervision when they were toddlers or younger. They were
corraled in their rooms or the family room or whatnot. I briefly tried the
net thing, but it ddin't look like it would work well. Thekidscan lift
it up, because it didn't tie down at the bottom and the gaps of the
railings weren't really big enough for them to fit through anyway. They
never really tried to climb it, though they'd stand on the bottom rail.

THANKS, everyone! We decided not to buy that property in the end.
Although the risk may be remote, the consequences are going to be very
disarsdrous. We don't want to live in the constant worry and vigilance
and trust the nanny and other caretakers will put up the same level of
alertness.

We are sure that we will remember your tips when we evaluate other
properties.

Nina

THANKS, everyone! We decided not to buy that property in the end.
Although the risk may be remote, the consequences are going to be very
disarsdrous. We don't want to live in the constant worry and vigilance
and trust the nanny and other caretakers will put up the same level of
alertness.

you didn't mention a nanny, I can see that you would require higher
standards if someone is caring for your child in your own home, just as you
require higher standards if you use an in home daycare (the law sometimes is
strong on this one, for example gates on the bottom of all staircases, even
if they are behind a door!)

Anne