OT - Potty training - can it be child-led? (xpost)

LisaBell wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:09:18 -0500, "Sophie"
wrote:

Sophie
#4 due 7/18/04

Hey Sophie....I didn't know you were already expecting #4. Congrats!

--Lisabell

Me either. Congratulations!!! :-) I'm happy for you.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

Whot? I'm not that old, my mom always had an automatic washer, my
siblings are younger than me by up to 8 years, and we all trained before
2.

And a few kids will train early. Sure. All kids are different. Just as some
walk and talk early and meet other milestones early, some potty train early.
One of the kids in the preschool knew all his letters at well before his second
birthday.

My DS uses the toilet and has for 8 months now, though at 14mo

,he's
just starting to have language skills and mobility, so I anticipate it
will move more quickly now as he can (and occasionally does) take
himself to the bathroom.

Your son has been using the toilet since he was 6 months old? I trust you are
talking about a rather different method of potty training then.
There are, of course, many different mthods out there. Up until about 50 years
ago, most mothers 'trained' their kids using a mixture of habit training
(putting the child on the potty very often, so the child would come to
associate the feeling of the toilet seat with the need to push) and mother
training (mom would watch baby for the change of expression that indicated baby
was going to have a bowel movement) (and an expectation of frequent accidents).

In slightly more recent times (say, until about 20 years ago, there was yet a
different method, used to train kids typically at around 18 months to 2 years.

I don't think there's anything inherantly "wrong" with any of them, but they do
strike me as a lot of unnecessary work, when most kids will train pretty
quickly and easily when they are ready, which usually comes a little later,
(and does NOT mean "waiting until junior insists on using the toilet", but
simply waiting until junior shows physiological readiness AND interest.)

I'm not sure we can chalk it up to washing facilities or
trauma. I'm curious why you think 40-50 years ago people didn't want to
wash diapers but would put in the "intense effort" and "deal..with very
freuqent accidents"...I would think if it didn't pay off, they wouldn't

bother. I

It was all those, and it was also the fact that it was what parents were told
to do. Early toilet training was considered vital for the child's health and
well being. (Both physical and emotional.) And if it took months to acheive,
and required taking the child to the toilet on an hourly basis for months on
end... well ... that's what you did.

I don't see why it has to be either child led or cruel. That seems to
be the options offered. Why can't the parent direct and lead, and not
force or traumatise?

Did you see the word "cruel" or "angst" appear anywhere in my post? I'm
talking about practicalities here. I work with about half a dozen kids of this
age range on a daily basis. NONE of them are ready for potty training. Several
of the parents have been trying for months. One little boy was apparently
'trained' for a while. Then he suddenly started having accidents. Every single
day. I'd ask him, literally every15 minutes, if he had to use the potty. He'd
say no. "Are you sure? Let's try, ok?" "No, I don't have to." (He's 2 1/2, and
extremely verbal and smart. His mother had trained him just after he turned 2).
She tried sending him to school without underwear, thinking that the panties
felt like a diaper to him. Didn't help, just meant an even bigger mess when he
had an accident. So, finally, she put him back in diapers. Maybe in another few
months he'll really be ready. And we'll try again.

Why is this much different than learning to eat
with a fork or learn colors? We expose kids to THOSE kinds of skills
far earlier than we expect mastery, and we shape their behaviours to end
up with the "finished" result, but can see basic skills developing quite

Sure. And the kids are being exposed. We 'talk up' the potty. The preschool
kids see the potty in the bathroom. They are welcome to try sitting on it
anytime they choose, bare bottomed or with a diaper. And they think it's lots
of fun.

But it IS well known that for most kids, if you wait until they are
physiologically and emotionally ready, training DOES go pretty quickly (days or
weeks rather than months to pretty good reliability -- yeah, there will still
be the occassional accident, but not daily or many times daily). So, unless you
have a child who is pleading to use the potty early, why push it before he's
ready? What do either of you gain? (And yeah, like it or not, 'partial mastery'
of toileting IS more problematic from a sanitary and practical standpoint than
'partial mastery' of colors or table manners.)

But sure, if a mom comes to me and says "I want to start serious potty training
with Johnny today. I have him in underwear. Please take him to the toilet every
20 minutes," I am more than happy to oblige, and am fully aware that there will
be accidents and puddles along the way. But if, after a couple of weeks of
this, there are still more puddles that potty successes, I may well ask
Johnny's mother how training is going at home, since it isn't going so well at
school. (And if home isn't going well either, I might suggest that we stop for
a while until Johnny shows more signs of readiness.)


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

"Dawn Lawson" wrote in message
news:_b9vb.442110$6C4.329142@pd7tw1no...


Jenrose wrote:


Here's how "I" trained my daughter.

She said, "Me be naked."

I said, "You not pee on floor."

She said, "Okay."

*g*
I can picture that.
I've wiped up a few puddles, but it's NBD and he's learning where it
comes from and how it feels. Pee's sterile.


I was living with my parents. They had carpets. Pee on the floor was NOT
something I was willing to deal with, period. I can't stand it when pets do
that and I can't stand it when kids do that. We had one puddle. I just put
her in her diaper immediately, saying, "Oops, you forgot. We'll have the
diaper on now."

Pee may be sterile, but if you've got a toddler addicted to garlic capsules
(long story) it's awfully stinky in a really pervasive sort of way.

I found the Baby Bjorn potty to be excellent for her.. much less difficult
than the more traditional models.

Jenrose

(Bev Brandt) wrote in message . com...
(Sharon) wrote in message . com...

I, OTOH, have a 3 1/2 year old that has never shown any interest
whatsoever in the toilet, potty training, getting out of diapers, etc.
Not interested at all in incentives, rewards, treats, etc. I am not
so sure how long I should "wait" until he demonstrates any desire to
move toward potty training.

I'm wondering about this, too. Maybe there's a way to put a little
pressure on without turning it into a power struggle. If you come up
with a way, let me know! ;-)

My youngest is 3 and 3 mos. and talks the talk, but won't walk the
walk. He talks about the Big Reward he'll get when he consistently
uses the potty: "I go potty, I wear underwear all the time, I get a
'skateboard.'" (Which will likely be a scooter.) He talks about the
short term rewards: "I take off my diaper, I pee in the potty, I get
M&Ms." He talks about the underwear in his drawer: "I have Batman
underwear like a big boy!"

But when I ask him if he wants to go, he always says no. He doesn't
want to actually *wear* the cool Batman underwear and he always refers
to the last time he sat on the potty and nothing happened: "The pee
won't come out!" I think he figures "the pee won't come out" all the
time, now.

Of course, he runs off and hides when he's pooping and even tells me
that he doesn't want me around for that. He then comes and gets me to
change him...*sigh*

Ahhhh...our boys are cut from the same cloth, and I'm glad I'm not the
only one out there tearing my hair out over this! James does the
exact same thing - he knows what the toilet is for, has watched both
his dad and I use it, has cool big boy underwear (for us it is Bob the
Builder) that he will be able to wear once he is trained, etc. The
paragraph you wrote about hiding when he poops I could have written
verbatum, except for the changing part - James hates to have his
diaper changed and will constantly fight us about it. And
incentives/rewards just don't work with this kid.

I have two months off maternity leave once #2 arrives, so I think I
may try to push him a bit in the direction, since I will be home with
him on a consistent basis. Right now I work full time outside the
home - DH works from home, but he isn't that reliable about offering
the potty on a regular basis when James is at home. Fortunately, his
preschool is very accomodating, and have already told me that they
will help me in anyway they can, once I get a bit more insistent.

I'll let you know what happens.

Sharon
Mom to James 6.2.00
EDD #2 5 December

Naomi Pardue wrote:

Whot? I'm not that old, my mom always had an automatic washer, my
siblings are younger than me by up to 8 years, and we all trained before
2.


And a few kids will train early. Sure.

Well, three of us. Don't think it was just that mom was lucky, cuz my
grandmother did it too. Maybe we're a spechul family, but I really
don't think so, because I'm not the only person doing it, and at some
point, some of these people would hit a "late" kid, I'd think.


Your son has been using the toilet since he was 6 months old?

yes.

I trust you are
talking about a rather different method of potty training then.

I think so. Somehow I don't see that as a negative thing at ALL, if the
option is to wait 3 years.

There are, of course, many different mthods out there. Up until about 50 years
ago, most mothers 'trained' their kids using a mixture of habit training
(putting the child on the potty very often, so the child would come to
associate the feeling of the toilet seat with the need to push) and mother
training (mom would watch baby for the change of expression that indicated baby
was going to have a bowel movement) (and an expectation of frequent accidents).

if by "accident" you mean a BM in a diaper, then it's not a big deal.
You don't HAVE to have the kid in regular underwear to train them.
As for "mother training" that seems to be highly scorned these days, but
surely the better way to link sensation with action for the child is to
"catch" the baby in the midst of the appropriate sensation.


In slightly more recent times (say, until about 20 years ago, there was yet a
different method, used to train kids typically at around 18 months to 2 years.

Cuold you describe it?


I don't think there's anything inherantly "wrong" with any of them, but they do
strike me as a lot of unnecessary work

I simply do NOT understand why what I am doing could *possibly* be more
work than changing dirty diapers. At ALL. I'm not saying that with
anger, but I absolutely postively am baffled by the constant refrain I
hear that being aware of one's small child's habits is somehow more work
than changing 3 or more YEARS of dirty diapers.

, when most kids will train pretty
quickly and easily when they are ready, which usually comes a little later,
(and does NOT mean "waiting until junior insists on using the toilet", but
simply waiting until junior shows physiological readiness AND interest.)

Well, people are free to wait if they want, but I have zero intentions
of waiting for him to be dry for hours and want to flush the toilet a
lot to start conditioning him to associate his bodily functions with
sitting on the toilet. No stress, very very few dirty diapers.

I'm not sure we can chalk it up to washing facilities or
trauma. I'm curious why you think 40-50 years ago people didn't want to
wash diapers but would put in the "intense effort" and "deal..with very
freuqent accidents"...I would think if it didn't pay off, they wouldn't


bother. I


It was all those,

I have to respectfully disagree. My mother isn't THAT far from child
raising AND was a kindergarten and early intervention teacher for 30ish
years. She certainly didn't find potty training intense effort, or
fraught with "frequent accidents" but she approached it far differently
than the "wait and see if Jr shows interest" way I keep reading and
hearing about.

and it was also the fact that it was what parents were told
to do. Early toilet training was considered vital for the child's health and
well being. (Both physical and emotional.) And if it took months to acheive,
and required taking the child to the toilet on an hourly basis for months on
end... well ... that's what you did.

That's not what the family stories I have relate. Where do you find
your accounts? (curious, not confrontational)



I don't see why it has to be either child led or cruel. That seems to
be the options offered. Why can't the parent direct and lead, and not
force or traumatise?


Did you see the word "cruel" or "angst" appear anywhere in my post? I'm
talking about practicalities here.

I find pottying my DS far more practical than the alternatives. I keep
hearing how a child is not emotionally or physically ready and I suppose
the blank left to fill in there is that starting earlier sets up some
sort of negative situation. Plus I hear a lot of people fretting about
their kids' reactions to potty training. I'd say "anxiety" features
pretty highly in those discussion.

I work with about half a dozen kids of this
age range on a daily basis. NONE of them are ready for potty training. Several
of the parents have been trying for months.

Can it not be considered that perhaps the problem is with the standard
methods used?? If I was not getting success after months of trying one
method, I would be questioning the method.

I REALLY do not believe that earlier training is so incredibly
difficult, timeconsuming, messy and not worth trying. I REALLY don't
get the idea of diapers til 3. I'm honestly trying to sort this out,
because as I have said, it's a bit of a freak show atmosphere when
people find out that DS is pooping on the toilet and has for a long time
now. Where did this whole idea of waiting so long COME from?


One little boy was apparently
'trained' for a while. Then he suddenly started having accidents. Every single
day. I'd ask him, literally every15 minutes, if he had to use the potty. He'd
say no. "Are you sure? Let's try, ok?" "No, I don't have to."

Ok, but does ANYone have to go to the bathroom every 15 minutes? It's
not related to his body sensations at all, as far as I can figure it.
To me, as I've said before, the earliest idea of using the potty has to
be linked to the sensation of NEEDING to go. Temporal connection.
Seems to me that would be FAR far faster than the sort of crap shoot
(hmmmm, pun not intended) approach of taking the kid to the bathroom
every 20 minutes in hopes of getting the right moment now and then.
I've been trying to figure out what the difference in approach really
is. I keep thinking that if a horse can be trained to eliminate in a
specific area or on command, and a cat can be trained to use the toilet,
a dog to use a specific area, surely some of the methods used for these
situations can be brought into play for training a kid??

Why is this much different than learning to eat
with a fork or learn colors? We expose kids to THOSE kinds of skills
far earlier than we expect mastery, and we shape their behaviours to end
up with the "finished" result, but can see basic skills developing quite


Sure. And the kids are being exposed. We 'talk up' the potty. The preschool
kids see the potty in the bathroom. They are welcome to try sitting on it
anytime they choose, bare bottomed or with a diaper. And they think it's lots
of fun.

But what has that to do with linking their physical sensations to the
process? That's the part that seems to be lacking in the "modern"
approach. The part that makes an early connection between what they
feel and what they do. I agree that training shouldn't be stressful,
but the idea of toilet as "fun" without a connection to what it's FOR is
a little strange to me.

But it IS well known that for most kids, if you wait until they are
physiologically and emotionally ready, training DOES go pretty quickly (days or
weeks rather than months to pretty good reliability -- yeah, there will still
be the occassional accident, but not daily or many times daily)

I don't have daily or many daily accidents with DS and his bowel
movements. I'd say there's probably less than one a week, and that
usually because his signals were missed, not because he didn't know.
IOW, my bad, not his unreadiness. I'm just starting to work on pee
training with him, now that he's walking. Many people who are more into
the EC methods have far younger kids than him mostly clean and dry.

.. So, unless you
have a child who is pleading to use the potty early, why push it before he's
ready?

I'm not "pushing", but I'm not sitting around waiting for some future
date either. I started because it seemed more sanitary and practical
than dabbling about with dirty diapers, because I knew it could be done,
and continued because DS quickly showed his preference and it was very
easy and to me, sensible.

What do either of you gain?

??? really???
Just to start the list, *I* gain more pleasant laundry duty, a chance to
help DS be more comfortable and *he* gains the freedom from a diaper
full of squooshed up, smeared on his butt, smelly poop.


(And yeah, like it or not, 'partial mastery'
of toileting IS more problematic from a sanitary and practical standpoint than
'partial mastery' of colors or table manners.)

Nope. not here. He's in diapers atm, but a dirty one is a rarity.
Partial mastery in inappropriate clothing for that level of mastery,
yes, I can see where you're coming from there. But is that the kid's
problem?


But sure, if a mom comes to me and says "I want to start serious potty training
with Johnny today. I have him in underwear. Please take him to the toilet every
20 minutes," I am more than happy to oblige

I still fail to see how this method is engineered to work. I have a
sneaking suspicion that there's a behaviour psychologist or two who'd
rework the entire process to achieve faster and better results.

I think (my opinion, as a Zoology/Psychology grad) that there's a lot of
logic and conditioning principles missing from the methods I hear about,
which isn't a jab at anyone in particular, but more of the sort of
mainstream approach right now. People scoff at EC type toileting, but
why?? Somehow it seems wrong to condition a kid for 2 or 3 years to use
a diaper and then wonder why they find it unsettling to have to change
their pattern. Some of the problems I'm hearing strike me as the child
not being too *young* to start potty training, but rather having passed
the earlier window where they may have accepted the use of the potty
with less anxiety and resistance.

i've about said all I can on this, I'm not going to stop what I'm doing
just because DS isn't "old enough" to be doing what he's doing. He's
not stressed, I'm not stressed, my sanitary and practical situation is
far better than the moms I know who's similar aged kids are not using
teh toilet, and I have no intention of having a 3yo in diapers.

If anyone wants to email me to talk about earlier training than the
"norm", I'm happy to chat about it. I don't think I'm necessarily the
best source of information, but it's working just dandy here, and did
for my mother and grandmother as well.

:-)

Dawn

I find this whole discussion really interesting. I think I'm really struck
by the fact that my mother's generation who brought up babies in the 60's
saw early potty play as 'no big deal' and a practical part of the toilet
routine from an early age. I also think a lot of women of this age are
SCARED to advise us because they lack the self-esteem and access to
knowledge that we take for granted (e.g. we are so much more informed about
breastfeeding than they were) and so they don't like to question the
accepted practice NOW becuase they think it is more 'scientific' or they
will be corrected with facts and figures. (I KNOW that not ALL women are
like that, and plenty of you have dragon-mothers who are willing to let you
know their opinion on EVERYTHING, but basically I think there is a lack of
trust between the generations - particularly as the age gap is widening
between us and our mothers - and perhaps that is contributing to our failure
to trust our mother's experience and wisdom on baby-training matters in
general.)

I was discussing it with a friend of mine recently who is in her
late-sixties, and she said she had all her babies trained around 18 months -
she said they were "clean by 12 months and dry by 18 months". That seems to
be a fairly common experience. My mother thinks it extraordinary that we
now have 3-4 year olds who are not potty trained. She just doesn't
understand why it's such a big deal.

To me, like Dawn, I don't understand WHY we abandoned this method. There
doesn't seem to be any reason for it. I can't help but wonder whether it is
a victory on behalf of the disposable nappy industry which has come into
being since our mother's time. I think maybe it's just a con to keep us in
nappies longer. And why not? The disposable nappy market is worth $4
billion a year.

I was reading a site recommended by the BBC for potty training:
http://www.pottytrainingtips.com/preparing-tips.htm and it says:

- Make potty training your top priority. Make potty training a top priority
on a consistent basis when you have the emotional and physical energy to do
it. Even if your child shows signs of potty training readiness, you may not
be ready for it as a parent.
- Pick a potty day. Get a calendar and ask your child when s/he wants to
begin to learn how to use the potty. Circle the date in a bright color and
keep reminding her/him that "potty day" is almost here.

Perhaps this is a bit of an extreme site, but to me this seems like it is
making such a HUGE deal out of what should be a natural and simple process.
It also seems like a perfect way to introduce stress into a small child's
life, and into their parent's ("you may not be ready for it as a parent"?!).
I definitely prefer to start 'em young, associating the feeling of peeing or
pooing with sitting on the potty. It seems a far more natural approach to
me.

Appreciating the discussion,
ROSIE

"Naomi Pardue" wrote in message
...
Whot? I'm not that old, my mom always had an automatic washer, my
siblings are younger than me by up to 8 years, and we all trained before
2.

And a few kids will train early. Sure. All kids are different. Just as
some
walk and talk early and meet other milestones early, some potty train
early.
One of the kids in the preschool knew all his letters at well before his
second
birthday.

My DS uses the toilet and has for 8 months now, though at 14mo

,he's
just starting to have language skills and mobility, so I anticipate it
will move more quickly now as he can (and occasionally does) take
himself to the bathroom.

Your son has been using the toilet since he was 6 months old? I trust you
are
talking about a rather different method of potty training then.
There are, of course, many different mthods out there. Up until about 50
years
ago, most mothers 'trained' their kids using a mixture of habit training
(putting the child on the potty very often, so the child would come to
associate the feeling of the toilet seat with the need to push) and mother
training (mom would watch baby for the change of expression that indicated
baby
was going to have a bowel movement) (and an expectation of frequent
accidents).

In slightly more recent times (say, until about 20 years ago, there was
yet a
different method, used to train kids typically at around 18 months to 2
years.

I don't think there's anything inherantly "wrong" with any of them, but
they do
strike me as a lot of unnecessary work, when most kids will train pretty
quickly and easily when they are ready, which usually comes a little
later,
(and does NOT mean "waiting until junior insists on using the toilet", but
simply waiting until junior shows physiological readiness AND interest.)

I'm not sure we can chalk it up to washing facilities or
trauma. I'm curious why you think 40-50 years ago people didn't want to
wash diapers but would put in the "intense effort" and "deal..with very
freuqent accidents"...I would think if it didn't pay off, they wouldn't

bother. I

It was all those, and it was also the fact that it was what parents were
told
to do. Early toilet training was considered vital for the child's health
and
well being. (Both physical and emotional.) And if it took months to
acheive,
and required taking the child to the toilet on an hourly basis for months
on
end... well ... that's what you did.

I don't see why it has to be either child led or cruel. That seems to
be the options offered. Why can't the parent direct and lead, and not
force or traumatise?

Did you see the word "cruel" or "angst" appear anywhere in my post? I'm
talking about practicalities here. I work with about half a dozen kids of
this
age range on a daily basis. NONE of them are ready for potty training.
Several
of the parents have been trying for months. One little boy was apparently
'trained' for a while. Then he suddenly started having accidents. Every
single
day. I'd ask him, literally every15 minutes, if he had to use the potty.
He'd
say no. "Are you sure? Let's try, ok?" "No, I don't have to." (He's 2
1/2, and
extremely verbal and smart. His mother had trained him just after he
turned 2).
She tried sending him to school without underwear, thinking that the
panties
felt like a diaper to him. Didn't help, just meant an even bigger mess
when he
had an accident. So, finally, she put him back in diapers. Maybe in
another few
months he'll really be ready. And we'll try again.

Why is this much different than learning to eat
with a fork or learn colors? We expose kids to THOSE kinds of skills
far earlier than we expect mastery, and we shape their behaviours to end
up with the "finished" result, but can see basic skills developing quite

Sure. And the kids are being exposed. We 'talk up' the potty. The
preschool
kids see the potty in the bathroom. They are welcome to try sitting on it
anytime they choose, bare bottomed or with a diaper. And they think it's
lots
of fun.

But it IS well known that for most kids, if you wait until they are
physiologically and emotionally ready, training DOES go pretty quickly
(days or
weeks rather than months to pretty good reliability -- yeah, there will
still
be the occassional accident, but not daily or many times daily). So,
unless you
have a child who is pleading to use the potty early, why push it before
he's
ready? What do either of you gain? (And yeah, like it or not, 'partial
mastery'
of toileting IS more problematic from a sanitary and practical standpoint
than
'partial mastery' of colors or table manners.)

But sure, if a mom comes to me and says "I want to start serious potty
training
with Johnny today. I have him in underwear. Please take him to the toilet
every
20 minutes," I am more than happy to oblige, and am fully aware that there
will
be accidents and puddles along the way. But if, after a couple of weeks of
this, there are still more puddles that potty successes, I may well ask
Johnny's mother how training is going at home, since it isn't going so
well at
school. (And if home isn't going well either, I might suggest that we
stop for
a while until Johnny shows more signs of readiness.)


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to
e-mail
reply.)

"Nikki" wrote in message
...
LisaBell wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:09:18 -0500, "Sophie"
wrote:

Sophie
#4 due 7/18/04

Hey Sophie....I didn't know you were already expecting #4. Congrats!

--Lisabell

Me either. Congratulations!!! :-) I'm happy for you.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)



Thanks

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,
My daughter is almost two, and all of a sudden has started asking to
sit on the potty. She prefers to do it fully clothed, and while one
of her parents are sitting on the toilet, but I figured it was time to
start reading up on the topic.

My guess is that she's still a bit young for this - she is starting to
show some signs of readiness: She tells me when she poops, and is
asking to be changed (a huge change from 18 months of HATING to be
changed), but she isn't showing other signs - she doesn't hold her pee
consciously as far as I can tell, or even understand the concept of
waiting. My guess is that she's starting to be aware of the function
of the toilet and is copying us. I got the potty out because she
*asked* to poop on the potty (I about fell over in shock!).

She's sat on the potty (mostly because she follows one of the adults
into the bathroom several times, a couple of times with no diaper (at
bath time) but hasn't actually gone in the toilet. She even "wiped"
and threw the toilet paper into the potty!

Now, long ago, after watching a family member go through a difficult
potty training, where using the toilet turned into a power struggle
(and as soon as they gave up - she decided to use the toilet), Chris
and I decided that we would let Kivi train herself. When she was
ready, she would ask US to train. The reasons go back further than
that - Chris's mom had a lot of difficulty potty training him, and we
decided that potty training should be child-led.

However, that doesn't mean we know what we are doing with regard to
the topic! My stepson trained easily when he was about 2 years 8
months, but his Mom did it while we were on our honeymoon, much to our
relief. She just told us what to do when we got back.

Are there any good potty training books or resources out there that
follow our philosophy?

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Kids are so smart, sounds to me like she knows and that she is ready. From
my experence and from what I have heard from family and friends it's seems
that most children have learned to potty train through watching their
parents and most of all other kids. When they see other kids using the
potty they usally want to follow. Personally I don't think she is to young,
my daughter was totally potty trained 2 weeks after her 1st Birthday all in
1 day. But then again she was off the bottle by the time she was 8 months
and drank out of a sippy cup. Now I think my daughter was a little to young
to be taken off the bottle so soon and some what pushed to be potty trained
but the doctors thought is was great, especially coming from (at the time) a
19 year old mother. Does she have her own little potty? Are pull-ups
something you are going to try? Good Luck!!

Crystal

Hi -

I've seen quite a few kids -- mostly girls -- train at about 2 years,
and the kids were the ones who led the way.

If you're concerned that she doesn't know when she's peeing, you might
try to play a game with her. (Only do this if it's warm outside, or you
have wood floors that are easy to clean.) Tell her that you're going to
let her run around outside with just a dress on, no diaper. You'll take
her portable potty outside with her. The game is to put her pee in the
potty. Play the game just for one day, and during that day give her
LOTS to drink. Think of some low-key way to deal with her accidents so
that she'll neither get upset by them, nor be encouraged. Cheer her on
whenever she gets *any* pee into the potty. If she's physiologically
ready, she may well figure out the connection between a full bladder and
the act of urination by the end of the day. If she doesn't, then she
may be ALMOST ready, but not quite.

The big hurdle in toilet training, no matter who leads the way, is
establishing the cause-effect relationship between the feeling of a full
bladder or bowel, and the act of elimination. Once the child
understands the connection, then the ball is in the kid's court, and all
you can do is encourage or get in the way. The game I suggested is one
way of helping your child understand the connection, but certainly not
the only way.

It's a great feeling, not having to buy diapers anymore. (At least, not
for daytime use. Nights are a completely separate issue.)

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

Rosie wrote:

I was discussing it with a friend of mine recently who is in her
late-sixties, and she said she had all her babies trained around 18 months -
she said they were "clean by 12 months and dry by 18 months".

Interesting, thanks. As I've not started pee training til DS walked, at
nearly 13 mo, I was wondering what I could expect. I hadn't heard anyone
talk about the lag in dryness over clean. (Intersting that I've lately
read more people saying that they struggle with clean more than dry, as
I found clean to be very easy)

He's pretty much clean now (acutally has been for a long time) and
today, when I left him upstairs while I changed the laundry over, he
came and hollered at me at the gate, then took me to the bathroom so he
KNOWS when he has to poop, and where to go. If I ask "where does poop
go?" or say "lets go to the potty" he will point and go over and whack
the lid. And he will not sit on the toilet if he doesn't have to go,
and will not willingly come off if he's not finished.

He definately gets it.

Dawn