Illinois post-secondary education

Does anyone here know of one single case in ILL Noise concerning
post-secondary education expenses on an adult child over age 18? If
possible a case where there is no agreement nor is it in the divorce
decree. Any help would be appreciated! Thank you in advance!
I live out of state and have not been able to find much on the subject
other than what factors the courts will supposedly consider in whether
or not I have to pay this even though I told my ex-wife I could not
afford it. She decided what college and obtained loans she wants me
to pay back plus wants me to pay all other living expenses. (food,
clothing, transportation, etc...). They live way above their means
(nothing less than designer clothing). We wear Walmart clothing and
glad to have it.
Thanks Gizmo

I don't know Illinois law...only Massachusetts.

However, I did find these two links for a start:

http://www.divorcenet.com/divorcenet...ld_support_faq

This link doesn't format properly, but if you search for college
there, it seems that Illinois believes divorced children are entitled
to college support.

Their general content is similar to Massachusetts. One thing to be
aware of if that both parents are supposed to provide for college.
Your x may not understand that. In Massachusetts, normally they take
so much for child support that there isn't any left over for addition
increase which I guess is positive (in a very negative way!). lol

At my level of child support I will pay $60K for my son for 4 years of
college. It will be interesting to see if my x tries to extort more.

The other link is: http://secondwivescafe.com/article.php?id=25

This link wasn't still active, so I've posted the cached content
below:


McHENRY COUNTY, Ill., JANUARY 24, 2004 â€" Michael Franke paid nearly
$4000 yesterday for his grown daughter's college tuition in order to
avoid being sent to jail on a six-month work release.

Franke told reporters at the McHenry County Courthouse yesterdaythat
he'd funded the payment with a credit card advance, loans from his
family and friends, and his entire paycheck for the next two weeks,
rather than be jailed. "I had no real choice," he said. "My wife and
infant son rely on me to provide their basic needs."

Franke's case will be heard by an an Illinois appeals court next
month. Franke will argue that Judge Joseph P. Condon's August 2003
ruling should be overturned, as it does not adequately consider his
ability to pay college tuition bills.

Judge Condon had ordered Franke to pay his former wife for the tuition
expenses of their 18-year-old daughter. In addition, Franke’s
paychecks would have been seized 100% by the state of Illinois until
the full initial court-ordered amount of $3,870.18 was paid in full.
Franke could continue to be held responsible for his daughter’s
college expenses should she continue in school.

Franke and his former wife, who divorced in 1999, agreed at the time
that "the amount and extent of contribution on the part of each party
for vocational, college and/or university expenses of said minor
children will be dependent upon the financial ability of that party at
the time" [Franke v. Franke]. Franke’s former wife earns a
comparable salary and holds savings in excess of the amount Franke has
been ordered to pay.

In addition to paying more than $20,000 per year in child support
payments to his former wife for the care of his children, and having
never been in arrears, Franke has a young son with his second wife who
suffers from RRP. The ailment is a recurrent benign tumor involving
the larynx and vocal cords. Monthly surgery is necessary for the child
to maintain an unobstructed airway and normal voice development. The
surgeries and routine care of this disease costs Franke approximately
$500 per month.

McHenry County Circuit Court Associate Judge Joseph P. Condon told
Franke earlier this month that the special needs of his young son were
of no concern to him, and that Franke’s current wife would have to
deal with the ramifications of losing 100% of her husband’s income.
Condon added that the children of Franke’s first marriage were a
priority over Franke’s ill one-year-old son. Franke’s children
also include a 16-year-old daughter and 11-year-old son.

Even though Franke has made regular attempts at exercising his
visitation with his children, none of Franke’s three children from
his first marriage currently have any contact with their father.
Franke has had no contact with his 18-year-old daughter in more than
three years.

According to Franke’s wife, Nicole, the couple made an offer to pay
a “more reasonable� amount of the 18-year-old’s college tuition
needs, citing the medical condition of the one-year-old, but the offer
was refused. Condon has also ordered Franke to pay all of his former
wife’s attorney’s fees.

Courts in Pennsylvania have ruled that forcing divorced parents to pay
for their children’s college expenses is unconstitutional, citing
the fact that parents from intact families cannot be legally compelled
to provide the same assistance, while New Hampshire's state
legislature is currently in the process of passing a law which would
prevent divorced parents from being held liable for post-high school
education expenses.

Gizmo

You won't find Illinois case law on the net, it just isn't there.

In Cook, Will and DuPage (and probably all the others, as well) counties
support for college is usually ordered regardless if it was addressed in the
intitial cussody and support agreement or not.

In Illinois judges have little or no tollerance for NCPs that don't want to or
can't pay support for college.

Heck I know of a dad that when he said he could no longer afford to pay for his
child's private HS education, because he moved to where his wife wanted to
raise their two little ones, the judge told him he should have let his new
wife move and he should have stayed in the other state alone until he had a job
that paid well enough to continue to support his other child the way he has in
the past. When the guy said what if he never could find a well paying job in
the new state, the judge told him he should have thought of all of this before
he had more children.

So in Illinois, be prepared to support your children four years after HS
graduation, if they want to go to college.

Mrs Indyguy

Indyguy1 wrote:
In Illinois judges have little or no tollerance for NCPs that don't
want to or can't pay support for college.

Do they have the same kind of contempt for still-married couple who
can't or won't pay for their kids to go to college? I didn't think so.
Can they show where college is a right or entitlement to every citizen,
regardless of personal or parental marital status? I didn't think so.

Heck I know of a dad that when he said he could no longer afford to
pay for his child's private HS education, because he moved to where
his wife wanted to raise their two little ones, the judge told him
he should have let his new wife move and he should have stayed in the
other state alone until he had a job that paid well enough to
continue to support his other child the way he has in the past. When
the guy said what if he never could find a well paying job in the new
state, the judge told him he should have thought of all of this
before he had more children.

I'm sure the irony would be lost on the judge when a divorced mom pops
out two more kids with another guy. She should have thought of that
before she had them. Yeah, right. Equal treatment under the law, my
ass.

--
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to
go chase it.
~Rogers Hornsby

I have a question for you, Indy. Does the child have the right to choose
the most expensive college/university available? Or can the NCP request
that the child attend a community college for the first 2 years, then
transfer to, say, a less expensive public university, rather than the
cream-of-the-crop, expensive school?

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...
Gizmo

You won't find Illinois case law on the net, it just isn't there.

In Cook, Will and DuPage (and probably all the others, as well) counties
support for college is usually ordered regardless if it was addressed in
the
intitial cussody and support agreement or not.

In Illinois judges have little or no tollerance for NCPs that don't want
to or
can't pay support for college.

Heck I know of a dad that when he said he could no longer afford to pay
for his
child's private HS education, because he moved to where his wife wanted to
raise their two little ones, the judge told him he should have let his
new
wife move and he should have stayed in the other state alone until he had
a job
that paid well enough to continue to support his other child the way he
has in
the past. When the guy said what if he never could find a well paying job
in
the new state, the judge told him he should have thought of all of this
before
he had more children.

So in Illinois, be prepared to support your children four years after HS
graduation, if they want to go to college.

Mrs Indyguy

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
I have a question for you, Indy. Does the child have the right to choose
the most expensive college/university available? Or can the NCP request
that the child attend a community college for the first 2 years, then
transfer to, say, a less expensive public university, rather than the
cream-of-the-crop, expensive school?

It doesn't matter whether the issue is college tuition, healthcare, or
daycare. As long as the NCP is forced to pay a percentage of the bill the
CP can select the highest cost option and force the NCP to pay a huge share
of the bill. Most NCP's are required to pay 65-80% of these add-on charges.

Why pick a low cost college when the NCP can be forced to pay a high
percentage of tuition at a private university?

Why go to a regular doctor when an NCP can be forced to pay a high
percentage of an emergency room visit?

Why pick a reasonably price daycare facility when an NCP can be forced to
pay a high percentage of a premium daycare service?

The CS laws leave way too much discretion in how to spend the NCP's money up
to vindictive CP's! And to add insult to injury, the Federal tax code
allows CP's tax deductions for college, healthcare, and daycare expenses to
reduce their net out-of-pocket costs to further reduce their percentage of
the total expense actually paid.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
I have a question for you, Indy. Does the child have the right to choose
the most expensive college/university available? Or can the NCP request
that the child attend a community college for the first 2 years, then
transfer to, say, a less expensive public university, rather than the
cream-of-the-crop, expensive school?

I can't speak for Illinois, but a while back I posted concerning a co-worker
of mine. His case was in Indiana, but he took it to court. He was able to
have a say, and the judge listened and agreed. My co-worker listened and
acted reasonably. Although he didn't agree with being forced to pay part of
the college education he did get the judge to agree to stipulations.

1) his daughter started at a less expensive school
2) his daughter was to provide her father with her grades
3) if she was not passing her classes support would stop
4) support was paid directly to the university, not her mother or the
daughter
5) the mother had to pay her fair share directly to the university, not the
daughter

The daughter attended one term at a less expensive university, not a
college. The university she attended was much less than the private
university she originally wanted to attend. She did not pass all classes.
Therefore, support ended.

So I believe judges will listen, but it is a case-by-case situation. If the
parents, NCP and/or CP, is reasonable, the judge may end up being reasonable
too.

Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/


"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...
Gizmo

You won't find Illinois case law on the net, it just isn't there.

In Cook, Will and DuPage (and probably all the others, as well) counties
support for college is usually ordered regardless if it was addressed in
the
intitial cussody and support agreement or not.

In Illinois judges have little or no tollerance for NCPs that don't want
to or
can't pay support for college.

Heck I know of a dad that when he said he could no longer afford to pay
for his
child's private HS education, because he moved to where his wife wanted
to
raise their two little ones, the judge told him he should have let his
new
wife move and he should have stayed in the other state alone until he
had
a job
that paid well enough to continue to support his other child the way he
has in
the past. When the guy said what if he never could find a well paying
job
in
the new state, the judge told him he should have thought of all of this
before
he had more children.

So in Illinois, be prepared to support your children four years after HS
graduation, if they want to go to college.

Mrs Indyguy

Teach wrote:

I have a question for you, Indy. Does the child have the right to choose
the most expensive college/university available?

Generally, no. They can ask for it but the norm is for the expenses to be in
line with state schools. Now if the child gets scholarships (or has other
sources that will help) that will pick up a lot of the differance then perhaps
a private school would be approved.

Or can the NCP request
that the child attend a community college for the first 2 years, then
transfer to, say, a less expensive public university, rather than the
cream-of-the-crop, expensive school?

They can request it, but probably won't get the ability to choose for the
child. If the child has done well enough to get into a university, most judges
don't like to see them pass up the opportunity.

Mrs Indyguy

Tracy wrote:
I have a question for you, Indy. Does the child have the right to
choose the most expensive college/university available? Or can the
NCP request that the child attend a community college for the first
2 years, then transfer to, say, a less expensive public university,
rather than the cream-of-the-crop, expensive school?

I can't speak for Illinois, but a while back I posted concerning a
co-worker of mine. His case was in Indiana, but he took it to court.
He was able to have a say, and the judge listened and agreed. My
co-worker listened and acted reasonably. Although he didn't agree
with being forced to pay part of the college education he did get the
judge to agree to stipulations.

1) his daughter started at a less expensive school
2) his daughter was to provide her father with her grades
3) if she was not passing her classes support would stop
4) support was paid directly to the university, not her mother or the
daughter
5) the mother had to pay her fair share directly to the university,
not the daughter

The daughter attended one term at a less expensive university, not a
college. The university she attended was much less than the private
university she originally wanted to attend. She did not pass all
classes. Therefore, support ended.

So I believe judges will listen, but it is a case-by-case situation.
If the parents, NCP and/or CP, is reasonable, the judge may end up
being reasonable too.

To my mind, these are entirely reasonable expectations for an NCP. For
*ANY* parent, actually.

--
Q. Why do Hell's Angels wear leather?
A. Because chiffon wrinkles too easily.
~ Paul Lynde, on Hollywood Squares

I have a question for you, Indy. Does the child have the right to choose
the most expensive college/university available?

NJ also offers automatic post secondary education expenses and/or child
support. However there is case law supporting termination of these if there is
no relationship between father and child and if dad was not included in the
decision making process. My husband and I are in the midst of such a case now
in an attempt to emancipate his 19 yr old daughter we haven't seen in over 10
yrs. The case in question is Moss V Nedas. Another thought is to fight it
through the courts on the basis it is unconstitutional. Pennsylvania recently
agreed with this aspect and they are now "18 and out". Very few states left
that require anything more than 18 and high school education.