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#111
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Elaborate on planning. Well it's hard to give an exact bullet list
as you have asked for. As each and every senario is differnet from the next. And all have to be judged in such a manor. My planning started the day we started living together. I hired 2 lawyers, from 2 different law firms, 1 for her. 1 for me. And we spent an afternoon, at my expense to draw out a Prenup. In it was listed everything from the finicial ends, right down to custody arrangments. I had it put right into an agreement she signed, under the advisement of a lawyer, that specifically stated that custody of any children as result of our marriage would be joint, unless one person opted out of the arrangment, or could be proved to be harmful to the childs well being, leaving the remaining parent with sole. As I had no criminal convictions against me walking into court. There was no reason to determine me a threat to the child. Also immediatly after deciding the idea of a seperation with my Ex, I walked straight down to the nearest court, the day of, and filed for immediate custody, and visitation until the matter could be brought to court. Not that I was worried I would not have access to him, but I wanted to ensure the was a paper trail to show I was doing everything in my power from the get go, to gain custody of my child. And not waiting till a month or 2 after the fact. My Ex also tried to have the Prenup thrown out of court. But her lawyer advised her against the idea because she was under counsel at the time of signing, and advised that this was binding agreement. So she dropped it. But essentially by planning. Take the time, think about things. Figure out the worse case senario you can think of, and then plan for it. I did all this prior to my son even being concieved. As result going into court I was able to show the judge I was a responsible person, and cared about the well being of my child, and wanted to ensure I was involved in his life as much as humanally possible. Now in my specific case, the gods of custody smiled upon me, and she left the country. But I was prepared walking into court. And thought long and hard about alot of this stuff. Again not rocket science. Just plain old fashion thinking things through. SpiderHam77 |
#112
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"SpiderHam77" wrote in message oups.com... Elaborate on planning. Well it's hard to give an exact bullet list as you have asked for. As each and every senario is differnet from the next. And all have to be judged in such a manor. My planning started the day we started living together. I hired 2 lawyers, from 2 different law firms, 1 for her. 1 for me. And we spent an afternoon, at my expense to draw out a Prenup. In it was listed everything from the finicial ends, right down to custody arrangments. I had it put right into an agreement she signed, under the advisement of a lawyer, that specifically stated that custody of any children as result of our marriage would be joint, unless one person opted out of the arrangment, or could be proved to be harmful to the childs well being, leaving the remaining parent with sole. As I had no criminal convictions against me walking into court. There was no reason to determine me a threat to the child. Also immediatly after deciding the idea of a seperation with my Ex, I walked straight down to the nearest court, the day of, and filed for immediate custody, and visitation until the matter could be brought to court. Not that I was worried I would not have access to him, but I wanted to ensure the was a paper trail to show I was doing everything in my power from the get go, to gain custody of my child. And not waiting till a month or 2 after the fact. My Ex also tried to have the Prenup thrown out of court. But her lawyer advised her against the idea because she was under counsel at the time of signing, and advised that this was binding agreement. So she dropped it. But essentially by planning. Take the time, think about things. Figure out the worse case senario you can think of, and then plan for it. I did all this prior to my son even being concieved. As result going into court I was able to show the judge I was a responsible person, and cared about the well being of my child, and wanted to ensure I was involved in his life as much as humanally possible. Now in my specific case, the gods of custody smiled upon me, and she left the country. But I was prepared walking into court. And thought long and hard about alot of this stuff. Again not rocket science. Just plain old fashion thinking things through. SpiderHam77 I'm very surprised that everything turned out the way you say it did. My own view is that it's very easy for judges in the U.S. to ignore the provisions of a prenuptial contract, particularly as they relate to custody of children. Judges simply say the contract provisions are "unconscionable," or they say that custody is always a matter for the courts to decide, and cannot be pre-ordained in a prenuptial contract. As a practical matter, I think the best assumption for men to make is that judges and the court system are determined to protect their monopoly on issues related to marriage and the family. This whole ramshackle system is shored up by the ability of judges and the courts to PREVENT people from making their own private, individual arrangements about what will be the conditions of their relationships. I don't think it would be prudent for any man to drew conclusions from what you say was your experience. Marriage should be privatized, and the conditions should be established before an individual couple enters into a relationship. But the position of the judges and the courts in the U.S. is like that of a monopolist who has been given -- or who has simply taken -- the ability to strangle any competitors that could challenge his monopoly. |
#113
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"Kenneth S." wrote in
: I'm very surprised that everything turned out the way you say it did. My own view is that it's very easy for judges in the U.S. to ignore the provisions of a prenuptial contract, particularly as they relate to custody of children. Judges simply say the contract provisions are "unconscionable," or they say that custody is always a matter for the I am surprised too. In my entire three year battle, each judge I was up against would not allow any type of contract that did not address the immediate. Therefore I could not, say, get an agreement that terminated child support in two years. Or have 50-50 joint custody in 1 year. They would not allow any future conditions... basically signing away the future rights of the child. I could not even imagine walking into a court with a 10 year old pre-nup about joint custody and the judge agreeing to it. In my experience, the only way any type of pre-nup or future agreement works is if both parties agree to it and follow it, unconditionally and uncontested. If one party does not, you are headed to court. And you may not win. I know. I have been there. For example, lets say we write a contract that says today we are 70/30 and in 8 months we go 60/40. In 8 months the ex could easily state all kinds of conditions, status quo, harm to the child, disruppting routines, etc., and the judge looks at all this, even if you have a contract. Yes, they do put weight to those contracts, but it is not 100% sure. Trust me. I had signed joint custody. As soon as the ex didn't like one little thing, we were in court fighting over custody, for three years. Same thing with access. I had all kinds of signed contracts. As soon as the ex didn't like the sharing agreement, and refused to update as per the contract, back to court we go. I'm still not done. Your ex walked away. That us a huge when it comes to court battles. If she stayed and faught you, things could be a lot different. H. |
#114
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Well one of the first things to consider in my case is that we are
not in the US. I think in some ways the laws surrounding custody and child support are alot different up here. As somethings like child support have been regulated, and essentially in most cases you can sit down on your own and calculate it. As a matter of fact things like custody are more often settled out of court by a mediator, assigned by the courts. And it if it can not be determined in mediation, then when it does go to court to be decided, the mediator also provides a report on their findings. So usually by the time it gets to court alot of the he said, she said type thing is taken care of and the judge can work with the basics more, the well being of the child. And I don't know to much down there in the US, but I know here in Canada there is a huge trend to start to favour Joint Custody, and fathers are being considered at par at the table. SpiderHam77 |
#115
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"SpiderHam77" wrote in news:1126379032.824037.18380
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: Well one of the first things to consider in my case is that we are not in the US. I think in some ways the laws surrounding custody and child support are alot different up here. As somethings like child support have been regulated, and essentially in most cases you can sit down on your own and calculate it. As a matter of fact things like custody are more often settled out of court by a mediator, assigned by the courts. And it if it can not be determined in mediation, then when it does go to court to be decided, the mediator also provides a report on their findings. So usually by the time it gets to court alot of the he said, she said type thing is taken care of and the judge can work with the basics more, the well being of the child. And I don't know to much down there in the US, but I know here in Canada there is a huge trend to start to favour Joint Custody, and fathers are being considered at par at the table. I live on Canada (in Ontario). Not a huge trend here. You have to fight and fight and fight. Or, you may get joint custody and be the every other weekend Dad (joint custody is not equal to joint access). I have seen my share of judges and share of courtrooms. So biased against the Dad it is not even funny. H. |
#116
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"SpiderHam77" wrote in
oups.com: Elaborate on planning. Well it's hard to give an exact bullet list as you have asked for. As each and every senario is differnet from the next. And all have to be judged in such a manor. My planning started the day we started living together. I hired 2 lawyers, from 2 different law firms, 1 for her. 1 for me. And we spent an afternoon, at my expense to draw out a Prenup. In it was listed everything from the finicial ends, right down to custody arrangments. I had it put right into an agreement she signed, under the advisement of a lawyer, that specifically stated that custody of any children as result of our marriage would be joint, unless one person opted out of the arrangment, or could be proved to be harmful to the childs well being, leaving the remaining parent with sole. In Ontario, you cannot pre-nup custody and access. It is right in the Law. Ontario Family Law: 52. (1) Two persons who are married to each other or intend to marry may enter into an agreement in which they agree on their respective rights and obligations under the marriage or on separation, on the annulment or dissolution of the marriage or on death, including, (a) ownership in or division of property; (b) support obligations; (c) the right to direct the education and moral training of their children, but not the right to custody of or access to their children; and (d) any other matter in the settlement of their affairs. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.3, s. 52 (1); 2005, c. 5, s. 27 (25). H. |
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