Child Support Guidelines are UNFAIR! Lets join together to fight them!

Yes things are alot different in Canada then in the US... But we to
experience alot of the Same issues as you guys down there... Just up
here we actually have a Socialized System.

And the average Canadian I'm sure if you talk to them are very proud
of the System we have.. We all know there could be improvements.. And
currently we are in the process of making some we hope.

But the same basic Law structure is the same. The people of Canada
(Gov and Courts) will hold you responsible for your actions. You
Benefit from your Good actions.. like Proper Life planning.. and can
succeed and keep all the money you want, and never have to share with
anyone... Or you can become trapped into the spot where alot of your
Members seem to be in. And it's all through simple planning.

Now again... I do Empathize.. not Sympathize.. there is a
difference... for my fellow Fathers who are trying to do the right
thing, and are being dragged through the coals by your Court System
down there...

However I still have trouble seeing how your group can possibly even
come close to representing more then a Small Fraction of the population
of Men. Most grown, mature men out there understand there are direct
consequences for their actions.. So they are a man about it, and deal
with them...

And even if, as someone has mentioned in here your group represents
1/4 of the Single Fathers out there who believe in what your saying....
Come up with a figure.. And think about that figure.. and then think
about the Population of the US... I believe at last count in the range
of 250-270 Million...

So if you devide that by Half to account for Women.... 125 Million..
and then out that number try and figure out how many actual Men there
are out there that are in fact NCP's being forced, and this is Key
AGAINST THEIR WILL, and really look at that number..

I think you might get up in to Hundreds of Thousands... And thats if
your Lucky. All the figures you've thrown out are Estimations based on
what studies.. where exactly are you getting your findings from...
Casue I can conduct a study and pretty much get any number I want as
long as I set the Critera in a certain manner...

If you are simply looking at the number Custody Cases going on... Or
Child Support hearings... then you are not really getting the whole
Spectrum of what all your fellow Men feel on the matter... Yet your
trying to represent all of us.. and assume that infact we all want what
you want.. When infact... I think it's truely just a small Minority of
upset Men who are being forced to pay for a mistake... And don't feel
like you should have to...

In Law it's called the Twinkie defence... it doesn't hold water.
Your the one who set the wheels in motion... Knowing the potential
outcome... Or Gambling if you want to look at that way... And not win
or lose... you gotta deal with the consquences.

SpiderHam77

"SpiderHam77" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yes things are alot different in Canada then in the US... But we to
experience alot of the Same issues as you guys down there... Just up
here we actually have a Socialized System.

And the average Canadian I'm sure if you talk to them are very proud
of the System we have.. We all know there could be improvements.. And
currently we are in the process of making some we hope.

But the same basic Law structure is the same. The people of Canada
(Gov and Courts) will hold you responsible for your actions. You
Benefit from your Good actions.. like Proper Life planning.. and can
succeed and keep all the money you want, and never have to share with
anyone... Or you can become trapped into the spot where alot of your
Members seem to be in. And it's all through simple planning.

Now again... I do Empathize.. not Sympathize.. there is a
difference... for my fellow Fathers who are trying to do the right
thing, and are being dragged through the coals by your Court System
down there...

However I still have trouble seeing how your group can possibly even
come close to representing more then a Small Fraction of the population
of Men. Most grown, mature men out there understand there are direct
consequences for their actions.. So they are a man about it, and deal
with them...

And even if, as someone has mentioned in here your group represents
1/4 of the Single Fathers out there who believe in what your saying....
Come up with a figure.. And think about that figure.. and then think
about the Population of the US... I believe at last count in the range
of 250-270 Million...

So if you devide that by Half to account for Women.... 125 Million..
and then out that number try and figure out how many actual Men there
are out there that are in fact NCP's being forced, and this is Key
AGAINST THEIR WILL, and really look at that number..

I think you might get up in to Hundreds of Thousands... And thats if
your Lucky. All the figures you've thrown out are Estimations based on
what studies.. where exactly are you getting your findings from...
Casue I can conduct a study and pretty much get any number I want as
long as I set the Critera in a certain manner...

If you are simply looking at the number Custody Cases going on... Or
Child Support hearings... then you are not really getting the whole
Spectrum of what all your fellow Men feel on the matter... Yet your
trying to represent all of us.. and assume that infact we all want what
you want.. When infact... I think it's truely just a small Minority of
upset Men who are being forced to pay for a mistake... And don't feel
like you should have to...

In Law it's called the Twinkie defence... it doesn't hold water.
Your the one who set the wheels in motion... Knowing the potential
outcome... Or Gambling if you want to look at that way... And not win
or lose... you gotta deal with the consquences.

SpiderHam77




holy **** , what part of Canada are you in ,
I've live in three provinces and one territory ,
but I never got to keep all I earn and ,
where is this that they are working to improve anything ?

Well % I was refering to the fact that beyond paying the Taxes that
everyone else pays, you would not be required to spend anymore money
then then you want. No one forces you to drive a car and pay for Gas..
no one forces you to Eat at expensive restruants.. but you may choose
to..

Child Support is an order the forces you to pay regardless if you
like it or not based on the fact that you had a helping hand in
creating the Child. And should be held responsible for your actions.

And I actually live in BC myself..

SpiderHam77

if I want to continue to be employed I am forced to buy gas
and there is only one restaurant where I live and I assure you its not fancy
and even at that I never go there



"SpiderHam77" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well % I was refering to the fact that beyond paying the Taxes that
everyone else pays, you would not be required to spend anymore money
then then you want. No one forces you to drive a car and pay for Gas..
no one forces you to Eat at expensive restruants.. but you may choose
to..

Child Support is an order the forces you to pay regardless if you
like it or not based on the fact that you had a helping hand in
creating the Child. And should be held responsible for your actions.

And I actually live in BC myself..

SpiderHam77

Well then move to a larger Town where there is public Transit... Move
closer to your Place of work... Walk to Work.. Ride a Bike... Roller
Blade... The point being that you have the option of reducing your
costs... and not spending it unless you choose to live where you are..
and work where you do...

SpiderHam77

"SpiderHam77" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well then move to a larger Town where there is public Transit... Move
closer to your Place of work... Walk to Work.. Ride a Bike... Roller
Blade... The point being that you have the option of reducing your
costs... and not spending it unless you choose to live where you are..
and work where you do...

SpiderHam77


i live in the heart of the north rockie mountains ,
you roller blade up the hills around here and i'll be right behind you
i'm already as close to work as i can be if i move it will cost even more
houses aren't all the cheap to buy and there are no places in larger towns
that i can apply my trade , i'm a placer miner

"SpiderHam77" wrote in message
ups.com...
Fist off I'm 100% man. I have Sole Custody of my Child. I took the
steps needed to ensure that if things ever broke down in my Marriage
with my Wife I would in fact be in the position to offer better.. more
stable care for my Child.

Perhaps it is just the feminism in your posts that threw me.


As it is 90% of the time that the Man leaves the House.. not the
woman.. that is why the Courts rule in the favour of the mother, as she
is the one who can show stability in caring for the child.

Many of whom "leave" under court order gained by false accusations of abuse
or "fear of abuse", rubber-stamped by a vote-conscious judge.


If you were to stay at home with your ex, until such time that a
Custody order was made up.. And can show that you are there 50% or more
of the time for your child, and are able to provide a Stable home
environment, and provide the basics of life...

I can garantee you either the Courts will award you Joint Custody, or
Sole Custody. Usually it would be Joint Custody as Both Parents have
equal say in the matter.

Joint, probably because "joint custody" is simply another name for sole
custody. As far as men getting sole custody without spending thousands or by
wish of the mother... share what you're smoking????


However as I said most of the time it's the Man who leaves the
home... Tell her to get out.. Make sure stuff like the House is in your
Name... And if she refuses to leave.. do not get Violent and lose your
temper. Simply stay Calm, and if you have to lseep on the couch for a
couple of days.. or make her...

Easier said than done but you are substantially correct. Men should request
the court to order her out; without the kids.


See I'm willing to bet 90% of these fathers who are unable to gain
Custody of their child are unable to because they were shown to abandon
their child, and only when they were asked to pay for Child support did
they bother to think about mor Custody..

How much are you willing to bet on this????
Make sure you have the funds to back up such a wreckless wager because
somone just might take you up on it... and you'll lose.


And when the courts look at things like Custody they usually take
into account the last 6 months of living arrangments... And see where
the child has been, ext... Courts have a tendancy to not want to
distrupt the Constant care of a child in a single place as this upsets
the child more.

Which is why 'good' divorce attorneys advise their female clients to get a
temporary restraining order that prevents the father from having much, if
anything, to do with the children during this time. Many even go so far as
to falsely claim sexual abuse to prevent any association between a man and
his children.


Essentially if you can show an active role in your Child's Life.. As
active as humanly possible.. and this can be done through simply taking
alot of pictures on different days to prove you are with your child
alot...

With a TRO, you will just have given the court proof that you violated the
order...


The Courts will take this into account. You all seem to be under the
impression that the Courts are out to get you... They aren't.. They
are out to provide the Most Stable care for the child.

Bull****. That would require that 80% of all fathers to be less able to
provide a better situation than the mother, which is sexist and incorrect on
it's face; consider how many single mothers are raising children in slums,
for one. Consider how many children raised by single mothers wind up in
jail, pregnant, on drugs or dead.


I know your going to say but the Woman will say your abusive. blah
blah.... But here is the thing.. she prove it... and in this day and
age.. your going to find more and more courts unless she has brought
the matter up with the Police, and you have been charged with
something... it will not hold water in court.

She does not NEED to prove it, only suggest it, imply it or accuse. Proof is
NOT required to obtain a TRO.
You really need to research a bit.


Again in my current posisiton.. My Ex during the whole Custody
arrangment tried to say that I had beaten her... and that she had scars
to prove it... I simply said I accidently bumped into her while moving
a couch into our home, and knocked her over, which was the case...

The Judge specifically asked her.. Did you call the Police.. can you
provide multiple times of this happening to prove a pattern.. she said
no on both accounts. So the judge ruled it was moot point, and that in
order to make such claims she needed proof.

Good for you, however there are many cases where defending oneself from
attack by the wife brought charges of abuse to the husband.
Besides the fact that your case is not representative of all cases, you
should do some basic research. It sounds as if your information comes
directly from N. O. W. or the like.
Phil #3



SpiderHam77

From what I hear and read, things are not as rosy a picture as Spiderham
paints.
From all indications, Canada is even more feminist than the US, if that is
possible.
Phil #3

"Dusty" wrote in message
...
Phil #3,

The "problem" is that SpiderHam77 lives in Canada and has been force fed
every feminazi lie there is (probably) since his birth. And the way
things
work here in the US, well, they're just a little bit different then they
are
in Canada. But he is trying to learn.

"Phil #3" wrote in message
nk.net...
From what I hear and read, things are not as rosy a picture as Spiderham
paints.
From all indications, Canada is even more feminist than the US, if that is
possible.
Phil #3


'
its true , Canada is a terrible place
its all flooded and everyone wants to ,
fly airplanes into our buildings

You'll not get me riled by pointing out the obvious, which is: Americans are
hated world-wide because we demand other countries abide by US principles.
However, in northern Manitoba the mosquitoes are big enough to mate with
birds, even when the birds don't want to
Phil #3


"%" wrote in message
...

"Phil #3" wrote in message
nk.net...
From what I hear and read, things are not as rosy a picture as Spiderham
paints.
From all indications, Canada is even more feminist than the US, if that
is
possible.
Phil #3


'
its true , Canada is a terrible place
its all flooded and everyone wants to ,
fly airplanes into our buildings