Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

"C R Krieger" wrote in message ...
"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
m...
Jon Walters wrote in message
...

First of all -- the kids of this generation are spoiled
and "do no wrong" in the eyes of their parents. They are
right and you are wrong .... especially when a 13 year old
wanted $40 to shovel the snow from my sidewalk recently. I
told the kid I'll give him $10 and he walked away. Good. I'll
wait until it melts before I pay that much.

Ah, so you think just because he's 13, he ought to do it for less than
an amount that he considers worth his time? He doesn't owe you
service. The only thing I can think of is that he might not have been
polite, and that's the only thing that he might have done wrong.

Shoveling snow is hard work, and it's no fun. And if you contract
with an agency that does stuff like that, they charge $75. So you
should either pay up or shut up and do it yourself.

You know what? Although your views are diametrically opposed, you're both
morons and for the same reason. If Jon wants his snow shoveled for less
than $40, he has a perfect right to find someone who will do it. He need
not simply capitulate to the demands of a 13-year-old who *may or may not*
be overpricing his services.

Capitulate to the demands? Huh? Who wanted his walk shoveled? The
kid probably didn't just show up, and say, "give me $40 or else." Jon
on the other hand, expected the kid to capitulate to *his* demands -
"shovel my walk and take $10, or else you are a spoiled brat with
overindulgent parents."

Sure, it would have been nice if the kid (and Jon) had negotiated a
price that was mutually acceptable. But NEITHER did. It doesn't sound
like Jon tried to negotiate, but posts have ragged on the kid (and his
parents) because he didn't.

The truth is, that everyone has his price. And if $40 was the kid's
price, and it just wasn't worth it to him to do the work for less,
then that's his choice. And it's Jon's to not hire him. What I - and
others - are pointing out, is that Jon *complained* that the kid
wouldn't take his offer, like it was some failing on the part of the
kid, or that the kid owed it to him.

Has it ever occurred to either of you that the best solution may lie
somewhere in between? Maybe the job's not actually worth $40, but maybe
it's worth more than $10, too. So how could we possibly arrive at that best
solution?

Sure, that would have been nice. But what if the kid doesn't want the
job for less than $40? Should we overindulgent parents force him to
take it for some amount less?

Read Beth's post. Negotiate an acceptable price for the services
or negotiate the services to suit the price offered.

Forced negotiation isn't negotiation. And I suspect that it will
teach the kid little - either about neighborliness or about good
citizenship.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

In article ,
Alex Rodriguez wrote:

What are you talking about? The kid wanted one price, the poster offered
a different price. The kid walked away without even a counter offer.
Unless the sidewalk is very long and the snow very deep, I too would think
that $40 is unreasonable.

$10 was probably below the kid's insult price. It's the same
principal as if you were selling a car and listing it for $4000 and
someone offered you $1000 -- you probably wouldn't make a
counteroffer, you'd just refuse.
--
Matthew T. Russotto
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue." But extreme restriction of liberty in pursuit of
a modicum of security is a very expensive vice.

"Matthew Russotto" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Marijke wrote:


Really? Then you must live among some pretty horrible families. The teens
*I* know are very respectful, shovel driveways for their neighbours for
10.00 (which, in Canadian dollars is less than your 10.00) or for free.

So you treat teens as slave labor? Sounds like your families are the
horrible ones.
--

ROFLOL!!!

thank you SO much for the best laugh of the week. Man, I needed that more
than you'll ever know.

Thank you!!
M

In article , Scott in Aztlán says...

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:11:02 -0600, toto wrote:

The question is why bitch about the kid refusing his offer?

Is it "bitching" if you walk away from a car dealer because he refuses to sell
you a car without tacking on a $5000 markup above MSRP? Is it bitching if you
call this car dealer "greedy" for asking such a ridiculous price?

You can call him that as you walk away to make yourself feel better. But the
fundamental point is - if *he* can sell to someone else for that, but *you* can
say "no" and walk away, neither of you has a problem.


Personally, I don't consider any of this to be "bitching." The OP was merely
remarking on how over-indulgent parents have inflated their children's
expectations over and above what is reasonable compensation for performing a
menial task that requires no special skills.

Whoa! Presumption upon presumption upon presumption.

You dont' know how big the sidewalk is or how much snow there is.
You don't know the going rate in Jon's area.
You dont' know if the kid's parents told him *anything* about snow-shovelling
prices. Or even if *anybody* did - he may have started out on his own
initiative, just then getting a feel for the market.
You don't know if the kid was purposely pricing himself out not wanting to
overtly refuse a job that was distasteful in some other way (like, maybe Jon is
a class-A jerk no one much wants to deal with but he's a neighbor the family has
to at least not **** off too badly, or the walk is next to a 100 ft unfenced
precipice.) The latter is something contractors do all the time.

Banty

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:18:50 -0800, Scott in Aztlán
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 03:18:11 GMT, "P. Tierney"
wrote:

Though perhaps some 13 year old kids value their time more
highly than $10. Nothing wrong with that.

You can value your time at $1 Billion/hour if you want. That doesn't mean it's a
realistic price WRT the market. You're right, there's nothing wrong with that;
the market is self-correcting in that respect. If there are others who wil do
the job at $10/hour, the $80/hour kid is going to have a lot of free time for
his PlayStation 2...

Maybe he'd rather be playing Playstation? That's a good way of
telling his parents that he looked for work but no one was interested.
--
Brandon Sommerville
remove ".gov" to e-mail

Definition of "Lottery":
Millions of stupid people contributing
to make one stupid person look smart.

In article , Scott in Aztlán says...

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 03:18:11 GMT, "P. Tierney"
wrote:

Though perhaps some 13 year old kids value their time more
highly than $10. Nothing wrong with that.

You can value your time at $1 Billion/hour if you want. That doesn't mean it's a
realistic price WRT the market. You're right, there's nothing wrong with that;
the market is self-correcting in that respect. If there are others who wil do
the job at $10/hour, the $80/hour kid is going to have a lot of free time for
his PlayStation 2...


Yeah, maybe that's what the kid wants. Who knows? Maybe was 7:00 pm, his back
was hurting, and he wanted to get himself, his shovel, and his wad of
hard-earned cash home for some rest and play on this PlayStation2 (oh the
horrors of it!)

Or maybe he's doing someone *else's* walk for the given price since that's the
market price.
Or maybe he's doing someone else's walk for a lower price, having learned a
lesson.
Or maybe he's doign someone else's walk for a lower price, releived that he
doesnt' have to have 'Jon' screaming at him while he does it (or whatever other
reason he purposely priced himself out).

The kid either got what he wants, or learns something. I still wonder what the
heck the problem is.

Banty

In article , Nan says...

Interesting how Jon's dropped out of this thread... no answers on how
deep the snow was, how long his walk is, and how he ended up getting
it done.

Nan


Yeah - I noticed that, too. Maybe all this hot air melted all his snow :-)

Banty

In article , Marijke says...


"Matthew Russotto" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Marijke wrote:


Really? Then you must live among some pretty horrible families. The teens
*I* know are very respectful, shovel driveways for their neighbours for
10.00 (which, in Canadian dollars is less than your 10.00) or for free.

So you treat teens as slave labor? Sounds like your families are the
horrible ones.
--

ROFLOL!!!

thank you SO much for the best laugh of the week. Man, I needed that more
than you'll ever know.

Well, yes, there is a big difference between slave labor and doing favors for
neighbors in a community.

There still is the hanging question of to what extent the teens consented, or
were pressured, to do these favors.

Banty

In article ,
Banty wrote:

to at least not **** off too badly, or the walk is next to a 100 ft unfenced
precipice.)

Actually, a 100ft unfenced precipice makes the job easier, not
harder. You just dump all the snow down there :-)


--
Matthew T. Russotto
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue." But extreme restriction of liberty in pursuit of
a modicum of security is a very expensive vice.

In article , Matthew Russotto says...

In article ,
Banty wrote:

to at least not **** off too badly, or the walk is next to a 100 ft unfenced
precipice.)

Actually, a 100ft unfenced precipice makes the job easier, not
harder. You just dump all the snow down there :-)

This may be true :-)

I was trying to think of something that would make the job something to
avoid....