Bad news for liars, good news for kids

On Jan 16, 3:49*pm, Mark wrote:


I appreciate that. *The most heart-wrenching part of this wasn't the
fact that the family got swindled out of several thousand dollars; it
was the false hope that this guy sold them. *I'm a parent. *If my kid
was dying, I'd grasp at straws too. *But this guy apparently does it
gleefully, complete with a packaged sales pitch, and he doesn't give a
damn that he is bilking desperate people by playing on their desperate
hopes that their loved on can be saved.

I am for trying new things, and things that are common sense in their
approach to medicine, and alternative therapies. But it has got to
make
sense. When I was ill in 1999, and I had gone through the entire hall
of
conventional medicine, I had no choice but to venture down the
hallways
of alternative medicine--and found myself at the Environmental Health
Center
in Dallas, TX. But before leaving, I did a lot of research on the
doctor and
found that he knew that 1+1 = 2. In those days, Dr. Albert Johnson,
DO &
Dr. William Rea, MD were partners. On my first day to the clinic, I
told both
of them I was there to get well. They didn't ask me how much money I
had
or didn't have. I took part in what I felt was important to me. And
there were
many times, that they must have known I was low on funds, because I
had
enough to last 2 weeks, and I ended up staying for 6 weeks--somehow
the
angels of EHC-D made in possible. On the last day I was there, I had
some
charges that hadn't been billed out yet--and they said, oh, we will
just send you
the bill.

There's something to be said for letting go when it's time to do so.
Thankfully, my patient's Mom reached that point before the little girl
died...barely (about 16 hours, to tell the truth.)

Yes, I agree with this---for all people----children, young adults,
babies, adults, grandparents.
It is when a death is so unexpected, or police find the body of a
loved one 3 weeks after the
person died because no one cared -- those are the toughest ones to get
let go of.

Swindlers and hucksters and those that prey on the weak and
desperate...these people deserve a special place in hell. *It's just
despicable. *That's why I'm so vehement against people like Dr.
Colorado and Hulda Clark. *They are obviously selling prepackaged
****, but they'll keep doing it as long as there are suckers who will
pay.


Mark, swindlers and hucksters come in all forms--a lot of people just
assume
it is in alternative forms of health care. There was an article this
month in the ARRP
about doctors that are wooed by companies to prescribe their drugs.
That same issue
has an article on what some states are doing about it. I put these
kinds of doctors in
the "quack category." Just like I put the doctors who are in trouble
for Medicare and
Medicaid fraud in that category as well.

I know very little about Hulda Clark, the research doctor other than
what I read here.
I know there are two sides to every story, and I'm not going to get
caught up in
taking sides. Both 'sides' have good points. But there are
conventional "creeps"
that sell an array of wares as well. I always tell the good ones from
the bad ones,
by telling them, "If you really want me to try that device, then loan
it to me, if you
think it is going to do me some good, if not, I look at it as
opportunity for you to make
money off of me. They usually never bother me again, unless it is
something they
want me to try.

Look at all of those health products sitting at the checkout stands
all across America;
so tempting to buy, and people do buy them without thinking---am I
really going to use
this??? Will it really help me strength my arms? The same can be
said for Dr. Dean
Edell's product line. The TV doctor wants to profit from his
audiences...now that is
sick!!

Nice heart warming story, Mark....thanks again for sharing..

In article ,
rpautrey2 wrote:
DW: Your understanding of reality must be a horrible experience.

Paul

On the contrary, it's people like you who must live an absolutely
terrifying life, reeling in horror every time another of these health
fairy tales is published. You believe everything you read! (As long
as it's anti-conventional medicine, I mean.)

There was absolutely nothing in the Ruesch article to give it
credibility. So naturally, you believe it all.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Without Bush, what will America's schoolchildren have to look down on?"
-- Bill Maher



On Jan 14, 9:54*am, (David Wright) wrote:
In article ,

rpautrey2 wrote:
REALITY!
Excerpt From:

The Drug Story
Hans Ruesch

And we should believe this silly screed is "reality" because?

Swindlers and hucksters and those that prey on the weak and
desperate...these people deserve a special place in hell


I sure hope hell is big enough for all those who have harmed children.


On Jan 16, 6:49*pm, Mark wrote:
On Jan 16, 10:22 am, Debbee wrote:

snip



Thanks for your story---may it help others who see the words
"testimonials" and think
they mean real life research and supporting evidence. *You may have
saved some
other parent a costly heart ache down the road.

I appreciate that. *The most heart-wrenching part of this wasn't the
fact that the family got swindled out of several thousand dollars; it
was the false hope that this guy sold them. *I'm a parent. *If my kid
was dying, I'd grasp at straws too. *But this guy apparently does it
gleefully, complete with a packaged sales pitch, and he doesn't give a
damn that he is bilking desperate people by playing on their desperate
hopes that their loved on can be saved.

There's something to be said for letting go when it's time to do so.
Thankfully, my patient's Mom reached that point before the little girl
died...barely (about 16 hours, to tell the truth.)

Swindlers and hucksters and those that prey on the weak and
desperate...these people deserve a special place in hell. *It's just
despicable. *That's why I'm so vehement against people like Dr.
Colorado and Hulda Clark. *They are obviously selling prepackaged
****, but they'll keep doing it as long as there are suckers who will
pay.

Sorry. *Ranting again.

Mark, MD

DW: Would you have been a follower of Hitler? Do you believe
everything authority says? Continue to define my reality. You're
almost always wrong. PA

On Jan 16, 8:36*pm, (David Wright) wrote:
In article ,

rpautrey2 wrote:
DW: Your understanding of reality must be a horrible experience.

Paul

On the contrary, it's people like you who must live an absolutely
terrifying life, reeling in horror every time another of these health
fairy tales is published. *You believe everything you read! *(As long
as it's anti-conventional medicine, I mean.)

There was absolutely nothing in the Ruesch article to give it
credibility. *So naturally, you believe it all.

* -- David Wright

On Jan 16, 6:47*pm, rpautrey2 wrote:


On the contrary, it's people like you who must live an absolutely
terrifying life, reeling in horror every time another of these health
fairy tales is published. *You believe everything you read! *(As long
as it's anti-conventional medicine, I mean.)

There was absolutely nothing in the Ruesch article to give it
credibility. *So naturally, you believe it all.


Our DW, reminds me of someone in the "music appreciation field with
the
same thought processes as our DW......being intellectual is one thing,
thinking
you are special because of this is another, and being unable to cope
in social
settings, for example in a newsgroups where no one can even see your
underwear
for goodness sakes where you feel that you have the right to control
everyone based on
your writings is yet another.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 1:58 pm, Debbee wrote:

Mark L, I have a hypothetical situation for you:

If I remember correctly, you work for some kind of Medical group.
Say you have a child that comes to
see you with his parents because they want a 3rd opinion -- ---the
chances for survival of the child are slim with the other two proposed
therapies. The parents tell you that they have heard about a
therapy that
as Probert likes to call it, that is "fringe" that there have been
some limited studies done about--say in Denmark and in Germany, but
nothing stateside, but there is a strong possibility that these large
doses of Vitamin supplement IVS might work for the child. As a
doctor, what do you do in a case like this? You already know the odds
of the chance for survival for the other two methods. The parents
have handed over to you the studies from that they pulled out of peer
reviewed journals. Based on the information you know about the other
two treatments, then seeing this rather limited alternative medicine
study information from Europe with good results, what would you
recommend? Would you abandon the conventional treatment way of
thinking to recommend trying the alternative medicine therapy, or
would you stand by it all of the way because you work for a Medical
group and your colleagues would not favor your decision?


Firstly, I take umbrage at your thinly veiled sneer that I make
decisions based on how some "group" thinks I should. I have been
blessed with a working brain, and I use it on a daily basis, thank you
very much.

Does that so-called working brain include. *Oh my ****in God*?

If the hypothetical studies have been published in peer-reviewed
journals, and there is supposedly a "strong possibility" that the
third therapy would work better than the first two, I imagine that the
oncologists (I assume you are talking about cancer...) would have
heard about it and would have an opinion of their own. I can read
about this therapy or that, but I wouldn't be so vain as to believe
that a trained pediatric oncologist knows less than I how to interpret
studies on new cancer therapies.

Curiously enough, this topic came up about 16-17 months ago. I had a
darling little girl in my practice who was dying of metastatic
neuroblastoma. The 5 doctors in the Neuroblastoma division or the
department of pediatric oncology at Sloan-Kettering in New York had
worked like devils for a year to cure this girl, but she was, frankly,
beyond hope. All conventional, and some experimental, approaches had
been exhausted.

Her mother called me and then brought me copies of
"research" (actually just self-published testimonials, and not true
research) from some doctor in Colorado who actually told this poor
woman that he had treated and cured God-knows-how-many kids with
*exactly her daughter's condition.* [The nerve of this *******...]

Mom wanted to know my opinion of this guy's approach. I don't
remember the exact details, but it involved mega-doses of vitamins,
some I had heard of and some which sounded totally fictitious. I told
Mom that I understood her desperation, but I doubted that anything
could really be done to delay the inevitable. I did tell her that
nothing on this guy's list of supplements looked harmful, so I
wouldn't try to stop her from wasting her money.

There's your answer, Debbee.

Mom called Dr. Colorado to ask how much his treatment would cost, and
this son of a bitch responded with "Well, how much is your daughter's
life worth?" I actually called him and demanded to know what the hell
he thought he was up to, and the conversation, needless to say, went
nowhere.

Do you know his mother? Was she a bitch?

Two months and about $6,000 later, Mom still had a dying kid on her
hands. I got the call at 6:00 am when she passed.

That's my personal experience with miracle cures that "they" don't
want you to know about.

Mark, MD

Your experience with conventional medicine who did not cure..is??

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
news:Mpnjj.6074$ib7.1895@trndny04...
Mark wrote:
On Jan 14, 1:58 pm, Debbee wrote:

Mark L, I have a hypothetical situation for you:

If I remember correctly, you work for some kind of Medical group.
Say you have a child that comes to
see you with his parents because they want a 3rd opinion -- ---the
chances for survival of the child are slim with the other two proposed
therapies. The parents tell you that they have heard about a
therapy that
as Probert likes to call it, that is "fringe" that there have been
some limited studies done about--say in Denmark and in Germany, but
nothing stateside, but there is a strong possibility that these large
doses of Vitamin supplement IVS might work for the child. As a
doctor, what do you do in a case like this? You already know the odds
of the chance for survival for the other two methods. The parents
have handed over to you the studies from that they pulled out of peer
reviewed journals. Based on the information you know about the other
two treatments, then seeing this rather limited alternative medicine
study information from Europe with good results, what would you
recommend? Would you abandon the conventional treatment way of
thinking to recommend trying the alternative medicine therapy, or
would you stand by it all of the way because you work for a Medical
group and your colleagues would not favor your decision?


Firstly, I take umbrage at your thinly veiled sneer that I make
decisions based on how some "group" thinks I should. I have been
blessed with a working brain, and I use it on a daily basis, thank you
very much.

Debbee

Is not the subject.


If the hypothetical studies have been published in peer-reviewed
journals, and there is supposedly a "strong possibility" that the
third therapy would work better than the first two, I imagine that the
oncologists (I assume you are talking about cancer...) would have
heard about it and would have an opinion of their own. I can read
about this therapy or that, but I wouldn't be so vain as to believe
that a trained pediatric oncologist knows less than I how to interpret
studies on new cancer therapies.

Curiously enough, this topic came up about 16-17 months ago. I had a
darling little girl in my practice who was dying of metastatic
neuroblastoma. The 5 doctors in the Neuroblastoma division or the
department of pediatric oncology at Sloan-Kettering in New York had
worked like devils for a year to cure this girl, but she was, frankly,
beyond hope. All conventional, and some experimental, approaches had
been exhausted.

Her mother called me and then brought me copies of
"research" (actually just self-published testimonials, and not true
research) from some doctor in Colorado who actually told this poor
woman that he had treated and cured God-knows-how-many kids with
*exactly her daughter's condition.* [The nerve of this *******...]

Mom wanted to know my opinion of this guy's approach. I don't
remember the exact details, but it involved mega-doses of vitamins,
some I had heard of and some which sounded totally fictitious. I told
Mom that I understood her desperation, but I doubted that anything
could really be done to delay the inevitable. I did tell her that
nothing on this guy's list of supplements looked harmful, so I
wouldn't try to stop her from wasting her money.

Mom called Dr. Colorado to ask how much his treatment would cost, and
this son of a bitch responded with "Well, how much is your daughter's
life worth?" I actually called him and demanded to know what the hell
he thought he was up to, and the conversation, needless to say, went
nowhere.

Two months and about $6,000 later, Mom still had a dying kid on her
hands. I got the call at 6:00 am when she passed.

That's my personal experience with miracle cures that "they" don't
want you to know about.

A very sad story that those promoters of the fictitious "health freedom
movement" do not want to hear. Remember, "health freedom" is a buzzword
which actually means "quackery for sale".

You should have reported the SOB to the authorities in Colorado.

Says a disbarred attorney with 22 counts of professional misconduct.
And...remained silent.

In article ,
rpautrey2 wrote:
DW: Would you have been a follower of Hitler? Do you believe
everything authority says? Continue to define my reality. You're
almost always wrong. PA

Sorry, under the Godwin rule, your mention of Hitler means you lose
this one.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Without Bush, what will America's schoolchildren have to look down on?"
-- Bill Maher



On Jan 16, 8:36*pm, (David Wright) wrote:
In article
,

rpautrey2 wrote:
DW: Your understanding of reality must be a horrible experience.

Paul

On the contrary, it's people like you who must live an absolutely
terrifying life, reeling in horror every time another of these health
fairy tales is published. *You believe everything you read! *(As long
as it's anti-conventional medicine, I mean.)

There was absolutely nothing in the Ruesch article to give it
credibility. *So naturally, you believe it all.

* -- David Wright

In article ,
Debbee wrote:
On Jan 16, 6:47*pm, rpautrey2 wrote:


On the contrary, it's people like you who must live an absolutely
terrifying life, reeling in horror every time another of these health
fairy tales is published. *You believe everything you read! *(As long
as it's anti-conventional medicine, I mean.)

There was absolutely nothing in the Ruesch article to give it
credibility. *So naturally, you believe it all.


Our DW, reminds me of someone in the "music appreciation field with
the same thought processes as our DW......being intellectual is one
thing, thinking you are special because of this is another, and being
unable to cope in social settings, for example in a newsgroups where
no one can even see your underwear for goodness sakes where you feel
that you have the right to control everyone based on
your writings is yet another.

Feel free to explain where I have asserted that I have the right to
control anyone other than myself.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Without Bush, what will America's schoolchildren have to look down on?"
-- Bill Maher

"Debbee" wrote in message
...
On Jan 16, 5:13 am, Mark Probert wrote:


Debbee uses many veils. It has been her tactic for years, She uses it so
she can feign deniability later on.



Yes, that is what you would think about me. You don't even know me.

The question was for Mark L, which he answered very appropriately, and
you need to
read my comments before making up garbage that simply is not true.

Oh, well, Debbee, he is nothing more than a cyber flack. He makes all kinds
of claims he cannot prove.
And is a well known proven liar, who removes his lies from google.
Go figure.