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If you want to discuss something I feel is relevant
Again replying to my own post to address beccafromlalaland's accusation
that I only asked questions, and avoided her questions and didn't answer 'any' of them. As in: "I noticed that you only responded to those items that you could ask more questions...and did not answer any of my questions. Dodging? -- beccafromlalaland " 0:- wrote: beccafromlalaland wrote: Why for instance in America are parenting classes only available to parents after the fact. There is no such limit. Anyone wishing to take a parenting class can find them easily. Health departments, parks and recreation, mental health departments, some schools, private instructors are all available. [[ While you forgot the question mark and I could have passed over this I presumed a question from the grammar and answered. Is this one of the 'any' I'm supposed to not have answered? I elaborated in fact. ]] In fact, you can even find on-line classes. http://tinyurl.com/dastb After they have been investigated for child abuse, after their children have been placed in foster care when the parents are either desperate to get their kids, or so angry that they refuse to attend parenting workshops. How would you get them to go to parenting classes until they were compelled to? [[ Again your comment, and my response, that is in fact an answer within a question. You are asking me to get them to classes they don't wan tot go to by posing the obvious. YOu compell them by law. People assigned to traffic school can be as angry as they want, but they stand to pay a hefty fine and even lose their driving priveleges if they do not attend. ]] The classes are everywhere. They are even free in some places. http://tinyurl.com/7fzqp I know in my state parenting classes are available but certainly not encouraged for at risk parents (young parents,families on assistance, single parents, parents who grew up in abusive households) [[ I find it odd that you chopped the above comment by you from later posts .. then shortly thereafter asked me if I was "dodging." ]] How are they not encouraged? You mean actively discouraged, or not publicized enough? [[ When you quoted by attribution later, these clarifying questions of mine were left lonely and dangling without your previous comment for the obvious understanding that I wanted to know something relevant to your statement. ]] I think before we can even consider a non-spanking law we need to address the issues of these at risk parents, get them into parenting classes, give them mentors, teach them appropriate discipline strategies. Give them a support network so when they feel overwhelmed with the responsibilities of parenthood they can get help BEFORE there is a problem. Two problems, I think. [[ Again, how am I dodging if you pose a solution and I discuss the issues and difficulties from the real world, as I do below? ]] One is that you cannot compel them to attend unless they have CPS intervention going on. It would be civil rights violation. I've argued with state legislators over this when one governor or another proposed "early intervention" with new mothers in geographical areas considered high risk, or with behaviors considered high risk. They understood rather easily when I pointed out the BOR to them from the Constitution. One cannot compel another's actions without due cause. And that has to be addressed with some action. The only legal action would be child protection statutes. Thus we come around again to the law. Two, money. Who will provide this support network? Churches, local interest groups, even the local health department schedules a variety of things to get young parents involved, especially new mothers, even providing child care during the meetings. The problem is that the families that are targetted for this help can refuse to respond, or simply not be interested, and that is certainly their right. I do not support compelled services unless the level of problem has reached a proportion that has involved child protection services by the state. And while at one time such programs could access hospital records for new births, and visit the new mothers directly, they are now proscribed from doing so by HIPAA. Any PR or marketing of the programs have to be addressed into to already crowded media advertising world. This is precisely why I support a law addressing the actual behavior. There is nothing; poverty, large families, single parenting that MAKES a parent spank a child. A law will address the issue directly. It will mean nothing to those that already do these things for their children. They won't be effected. They already actively seek alternatives to CP. Collect and study information about child development. Provide themselves with strees reducing activities and strategies for when parenting overwhelms them. In the law, I'll insist on having these issues addressed. There must be public funding support for programs mandated to help those charged and convicted of spanking. If not, there's little point in the law, though these things in the past have tended to sort themselves out. I imagine when women's sufferage was finally a fact there was some support for teaching women the political processes they were about to engage in. There was supposed to be help for freed slaves, but that didn't go as well. The law banning spanking would work for all concerned. The parent convicted of spanking could then DEMAND state support for them to rehabilitate. At least some reimbursement, some child care, some training monies. I'd be happy with that. These problems you have mentioned are ones that have been addressed before at great length by society. They have done pretty much all they can do, sans constitutional violations, at this point. Now it's time to move forward with a law. [[ You accused me of dodging. Where? This elaborate and informational commentary of mine was 'dodging?' Please explain. ]] -- beccafromlalaland Kane PS, Embry and Malfetti found that there was a change from baseline counted street entries from 9.7 per hour by children, to, after the program, 0.7 entries per hour. What was also remarkable was that the rate of "safe play" praise by parents also shot up after they had been trained. In fact, 33 times more such incidents after the program than before at measuring for the baseline. Even children having a very low baseline street entry rate, dropped considerably after the training was in place. 1.8 entries per hour, as opposed to 0.2 per hour with the program in place. Only 10% of the baseline rate. Pretty remarkable when one considers that parents who spanked before had children that attemped entries at the highest rate of all per hour. K~ [[ In fact, becca, I gave some information above that you pointedly ignored. As you said you would. I could accuse you of dodging, but I have not, only offerred the information and encouraged your commenting or discussion. Who's dodging here? ]] Kane -- Isn't it interesting that the more honest an author appears to be, the more like ourselves we think him. And the less so, how very alien he doth appear? Kane 2006 |
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