Spanking Leads To Child Aggression And Anxiety, Regardless Of Cultural Norm

Hihihi! What a STUPID liar you are!

Doan


On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
...more "hihihi".....

R R R R


On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, Ron wrote:

" krp" wrote in message
news:cP7qh.199$hi7.49@trnddc08...
"Ron" wrote in message
...
(snip)
Ron there are children who self discipline. They never need a
spanking.
(snip)
Kenny, I'm not involved in this discussion, and rarely comment on CP
issues. Do some research dopy, get the facts before you again make
yourself look like an idiot.
I see you deliberately SNIPPED all references to the claims of Dr.
Gelles and the refutations from Dr. Steinmetz and Dr. Spock..
Yes, they were not relevant to my post. Only your own stupidity.

Yeah they are but feel FREE to show us your "SCIENTIFIC PROOF" that
spanking CAUSES aggression in children.
So you can "DEBATE" me.
I don't have any such proof ken, and have never claimed it. The only thing
I have proven is that you are a liar, again. But you should be getting that
point by now, everyone else is.

Ron

Kane is claiming that he has the proof, Ron.

Doan

Doan wrote:
.....hihihi.......


So much for the claim that I am on your "do-not-reply" list. Once again,
you have proven yourself to be a STUPID liar! Hihihi!

Doan

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:

....hihihi....

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, krp wrote:

"0:-" wrote in message
oups.com...


Yeah they are but feel FREE to show us your "SCIENTIFIC PROOF" that
spanking CAUSES aggression in children.
So you can "DEBATE" me.
Well, I can see that my attempt to open a debate with you, based on
your claims (I made none related to your reply) is not going to go
anywhere. You still can't seem to stop lying.
I see you cannot address the "debate" with scientific evidence to
support YOUR endorsement of spanking causing children to be aggressive,
instead you make the debate about ME! Noted. You lose again!

And you have attempted to draw others into this exchange between you and
I.
Nope I have NOT. LIAR!

I said I'd debate YOU, and no one else.
That's YOUR problem not mine. So far you aren't debating me but you're
whining like a child and changing the subject.

Oddly enough you pick the person who holds opinions that differ with mine
on the subject of corporal punishment who I respect in these
forums, and try to force him to my side on this issue.
I didn't pick anyone Kane.

I asked you to debate me, and with specific simple easily met
conditions. Clarification of terms, mostly. And to confine ourselves to
aps, and each other in the debate.
Fine show me scientific evidence to support your position. YOU WON'T!
YOU CAN'T! SO you make this about me. What debating skills.

You have shown me that you refuse.
No it is YOU who is refusing.

Let's start at the beginning. I posted a quote from an article on an
international study, a survey of families in a number of countries,
across the spectrum of CP acceptability or rejection.
Let's start with one point of agreement. A "survey" is NOT a "study" and
typically is NOT "scientific." Certainly NOT proof of causality.

It was met with comments by Doan and LaVonne, and you dropped in at one
point with this comment, your first, in the thread:
"There is NO scientifically acceptable evidence that spanking causes
aggression in Children. There is considerable evidence that a lack of
spanking can produce sociopathy in children. "
There isn't! You have repeatedly been challenged to present some, to this
point you have REFUSED to do so!

You made this statement in reply to Doan's claim that the title of the
article was bogus.
The claim IS bogus from a scientific standpoint. Uf you want to debate
that, SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE!

Now if you two wish to sign each other's dance card, be my guest, but
I, Kane, offerred to take you up on your claim.
No you have chosen so far to be a blowhard. Present your evidence ort
admit defeat!

You have chosen, so far to go everywhere but to my challenge.
I went straight at it. Present your PROOF!!! Burden is on YOU.

You have NOT, as I requested, clarified what you would consider
"acceptable," in "scientifically acceptable evidence," and you have not
stuck to aps as the forum to have our debate in.
I don't subscribe to that forum. Why must I confine it there? What's
scientifically acceptable? A "study" (not a survey) conducted by a qualified
authority that uses the scientific mthod to demonstrate causality. NOT an
opinion piece by another blowhard you agree with. SCIENCE documented as to
methodology and verified and subjected to peer review published in a
recognized journal.

You have not presented your evidence for proof of sociopathy in
children being produced by a lack of "spanking," as you put it. And you
most certainly made a statement that this is true because more
sociopathogy is present now than in the past in the population.
Yeah I did, you snipped it and ignore it.

This was presented as fiat but NO proof, no data, no facts, no
authoritative sources.
YOU made the dogmatic claim that spanking "CAUSES AGRESSION IN CHILDREN"
Yopu have not offered anything by an OPINION piece bereft opf har evidence.

If you wish to have a war of opinions you can certainly do so. But, Ken
it was NOT I who made a claim about this issue, I simply posted an
article and YOU then made personal claims regarding and quoted by me as
above.
You claim the article is definative. I said it isn't ans asked for PROOF
from you that it is CAUSAL. SO far - 100% of your efforts have been attacks
on ME and NADA as to evidence to support the original bull**** claim.

Debate here in aps without crossposting. Debate with ME alone. Agree to
and adhere to no ad hom. Remove all personal issues about me or other
posters.
You first and I will maintain ASCPS. Afraid? Need to summon your
supporters? Want a firendly forum?

Define your terms. I will not debate with opinion.
YOU FIRST!

And then use YOUR definitions of your terms to make your argument.
"There is NO scientifically acceptable evidence that spanking causes
aggression in Children. There is considerable evidence that a lack of
spanking can produce sociopathy in children. "
I have started, BUT - YOU made the original claimm and REFUSE to present
supporting evidence. Again OPINION SURVEYS are NOT "science!"
PERIOD!

Gelles et al are not the only researchers.
Just the most respected.

As I said, define what you mean by 'acceptable,' in terms that go beyond
opinion, and show your evidence....beyond opinion, that would
meet your definition of "scientifically acceptable evidence," for lack of
spanking producing sociopathology in children.
YOU FIRST!

Can you handle it? Can you control yourself? Let's see.
Physician heal thyself first.

I will cross post this out to ascps soley that you might not miss it.
Tell you what Kane. Post it ONLY do your spanking newsgroup so I won't
have to see your whining bull****. Then you can declare yourself to be the
WINNER in your little circle, opr debate me OPENLY and start presenting
FACTS and not your usual bull****.

The exchange between us on topic won't begin until you meet those simple
criteria, including posting only to aps.
No - weenie - YOU do NOT get to make all the rules Mein Fuehrer! Debate
me openly or STFU! And start presenting scientific evidence to support your
claim. You do NOT get to throw a hissy-fit and demand that I disprove your
silly bull**** first. Get one thing through your head Kane you are NOT the
BOSS here, NOT with me you ain't. Save that bull**** for people you CAN
bully into giving up their kids to you! You don't come remotely close to
scaring me pr making me back down. Now if you really want to debate -
PRESENT YOUR EVIDENCE and then I will respond to it.

My bet is Kane won't and can't. He got his ass kicked by me so many in
this newsgroup that he now afraid to face me directly because I keep
exposing his STUPIDITY so that everyone can see it. His latest STUPIDITY
is this claim:

"Correlation is a valid scientific concept. It is and has been used
successfully to make major policy and decisions to action on things
as varied as rocket launches, and what to serve for breakfast."

Doan

Doan wrote:
..........hihihi...............

snicker


Hahaha! I thought that I am on your "do-not-reply" list. You are such
a STUPID liar! ;-)

Doan

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
.....hihihi.....

chuckle


On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

krp wrote:
"0:-" wrote in message
news:VZadnTfKcrfscDrYnZ2dnUVZ_sOknZ2d@scnresearch. com...

First, the study is a correlation study. No CAUSATION can be
implied.
Thus, the claim that spanking "Leads" to child aggression and anxiety
is bogus! Second, the authors themselves admitted that they included
beatings that are certainly abusive in the USA in study. If you
really
want to debate this study, I am willing to give it a shot - no verbal
abuse warranted. ;-) Wanna give me a try? My guess is you will be
the one that do the avoidance and instead will use your little Kane9
to do the verbal abuse and attack for you.
There is NO scientifically acceptable evidence that spanking causes
aggression in Children. There is considerable evidence that a lack of
spanking can produce sociopathy in children.

Do you know that Kane is a "never-spanked" boy?
Did you notice, Ken, that Doan didn't agree with you? Didn't contribute
anything to the issue?
Should I fly off the handle at him?
I can't think why. He supports you.

Call him names?

That's entirely up to you who you call names. Seems you've chosen me.

Belittle him?

You don't belittle people?

Find
somebody that says bad things about him and proclaim that I agree 100% with
what his detractors claim about him? No Kane - I AM NOT YOU!
Where did I agree 100% with your detractors?

I agree with them when I look at your postings, not with their claims.

I take their claims with a grain of salt. I've said so.

My status or yours as having been spanked or not is not relevant to the
issue if we are going to discuss facts....and FACTS seem to be what you
claim you have.
A lack of discipline as a child can and usually does explain abusive
behavior in adults.
A lack of personally integrated self control, by way of developing a
conscience, usually does explain abusive behavior in adults.

Now which is it for you, Ken?

Still now "scientific" proof from Kane! ;-)

Doan

On 13 Jan 2007, Dan Sullivan wrote:


krp wrote:
"Firemonkey" wrote in message
ps.com...

Can the pro-spankers define spanking? how hard, where on body, and for
what?

Sure. Hard enough to hurt. Moderate enough not to cause any lasting
physical injury. For? Doing bad things to others.

How many swats and where on the body?

Why don't you ask Kane how hard he hit his own children? ;-)

Doan

Doan wrote:
.....hihihi.......

smile


Hihihi! What a STUPID liar you are!

Doan


On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
...more "hihihi".....

R R R R


On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, Ron wrote:

" krp" wrote in message
news:cP7qh.199$hi7.49@trnddc08...
"Ron" wrote in message
...
(snip)
Ron there are children who self discipline. They never need a
spanking.
(snip)
Kenny, I'm not involved in this discussion, and rarely comment on CP
issues. Do some research dopy, get the facts before you again make
yourself look like an idiot.
I see you deliberately SNIPPED all references to the claims of Dr.
Gelles and the refutations from Dr. Steinmetz and Dr. Spock..
Yes, they were not relevant to my post. Only your own stupidity.
Yeah they are but feel FREE to show us your "SCIENTIFIC PROOF" that
spanking CAUSES aggression in children.
So you can "DEBATE" me.
I don't have any such proof ken, and have never claimed it. The only thing
I have proven is that you are a liar, again. But you should be getting that
point by now, everyone else is.

Ron
Kane is claiming that he has the proof, Ron.

Doan

Ken, Kane wants you to capitulate to his terms, and if
you don't submit he will throw a hissy fit!

1 on 1
alt.parenting.spanking only

It's just part of Kane's Megalomania.

Neither ascps nor aps is moderated nor are they Kane's.

krp wrote
If you notice Kane and Ron have a credibility problem, including things
like claiming you said things you didn't. It seems to be de rigueur in their
argument style.

It has been for ages.

krp wrote:
Should I fly off the handle at him? Call him names? Belittle him? Find
somebody that says bad things about him and proclaim that I agree 100% with
what his detractors claim about him? No Kane - I AM NOT YOU!

My status or yours as having been spanked or not is not relevant to the
issue if we are going to discuss facts....and FACTS seem to be what you
claim you have.

A lack of discipline as a child can and usually does explain abusive
behavior in adults.

Would that include Kane's year of posting gratuitous profanity?

I think Kane's claim of "never spanked" is a lie.
Kane has defended "moral or ethical" lies.
Can you guess from his hysterics what he considers moral and ethical?

I think the Donald L. Fisher "brutal upbringing" explains Kane's
rabid obsession as a CATHARSIS.

Greegor wrote:
Ken, Kane wants you to capitulate to his terms,

It's called a level playing field, Greg. As good for one side as the
other, as long as they stick to facts.

and if
you don't submit he will throw a hissy fit!

No, I'll just point out that he dodged. You are the hissy fit expert.

1 on 1
alt.parenting.spanking only

Seems fair to me, why not to you?

In fact, posters in ascps have complained about off topic posting
(though the one I'm thinking of lied).

It's just part of Kane's Megalomania.

What that I want Ken and I to have the same criteria for debate, and
work from a level playing field?

Neither ascps nor aps is moderated nor are they Kane's.

That's correct. He need not meet the debate criteria if he doesn't wish to.

I wish to.

I'll debate where and when I wish under the conditions I wish. If he
doesn't like them he can do a couple of things. Suggest other and see if
I agree...he tried that, with lies, accusations, and other assorted
dodging bull****...or he can put is tail MOORE firmly between his legs
and stop running interference for you, Greg. 0:-}

There's nothing complex or difficult or unfair in my request.

Sticking to a newsgroup that is on topic. Defining a term HE used for
clarity in argument, and responding to HIS turn to provide evidence on
the same level or better, if he wishes, after I had my turn.

Do you actually believe, yourself, Greg, that some children, because
they aren't spanked, develop pathologies, and that he can produce the
scientific evidence to support that claim?

Maybe you want to try doing that?

I can handle two of you at once, easily.

Especially on such a stupid ignorant claim.

You game?

Or can I assume that you too know that's not true, not possible, and
certainly there IS no such "evidence" as he claims there is.

I'm taking this back to the correct ng to be on topic. If you miss it
there, tough ****, chesai tomadachi.

Kane

Greegor wrote:
krp wrote
If you notice Kane and Ron have a credibility problem, including things
like claiming you said things you didn't. It seems to be de rigueur in their
argument style.

It has been for ages.

Name a few things either Ron or I have said you said that you didn't, Greg.

There's a good boy.

krp wrote:
Should I fly off the handle at him? Call him names? Belittle him? Find
somebody that says bad things about him and proclaim that I agree 100% with
what his detractors claim about him? No Kane - I AM NOT YOU!

My status or yours as having been spanked or not is not relevant to the
issue if we are going to discuss facts....and FACTS seem to be what you
claim you have.
A lack of discipline as a child can and usually does explain abusive
behavior in adults.

Would that include Kane's year of posting gratuitous profanity?

Could. Anything is possible. Are you suggesting that people that
parent's spanked are prone to cursing? And those that are, aren't?

I think Kane's claim of "never spanked" is a lie.

No, Doan's claim is a lie. That's not what I said. He's a "context
abortion" liar, just like you are an attribution abortion liar, Greg.
But anyone can see that in a few post in a thread.

Kane has defended "moral or ethical" lies.

Odd, I have, when doing so, asked you, and you ran, "would you lie to
protect someone's life?"

Why not answer?

Can you guess from his hysterics what he considers moral and ethical?

I sure can. I consider lying to protect someone safety and life very
ethical indeed. In fact far more ethical and moral than telling the
truth and them being killed or injured.

How about you, Greg? You going to answer my simple question, or is it
going to be a couple of years, like the question I asked you to help
clarify your meaning on the "use of lethal force by parents?"

I think the Donald L. Fisher "brutal upbringing" explains Kane's
rabid obsession as a CATHARSIS.

What brutal upbringing?

So let me see now. Lack of CP creates those that swear. Brutal
upbringing, if we follow your lying logic that I'm Don Fisher, explains
my obscenities.

Can you explain your logic here? It escapes me?

In fact, you make a very good case for the fact I'm not your Donald L.
Fisher.

It's nice you have a playmate though. We were getting worried about you
as Dennis became more and more obvious, and now Michael.

R R RR R R R

0:-

0:- wrote:

Don - r u gay?

Did u raise gay spawn?

--
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