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No-spank policy smacks of failure



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 14th 05, 06:21 PM
Opinions
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Default No-spank policy smacks of failure

Five years ago, 2/3 of parents in Britain thought student behavior had
gotten worse since corporal punishment was banned in the mid-1980s.

Last summer, concerns over bullying via cell phones prompted official
demands that all British schools institute anti-bullying policies.
There have also been calls to ban pencil boxes, hooded sweatshirts, and
anything else that one student can use to torment another.

Only a couple of weeks ago, a former Member of Parliament complained
about a video game in which players use their on-screen persona to kick
and punch peers in a school environment.

More recently, a 15-year-old British schoolgirl was physically attacked
by peers after receiving 2 awards for academic excellence. The attack
left the victim with various facial scratches and bruises in addition
to a bloody nose, a split eyelid, and a black eye. After the
mid-morning attack, the victim spent the rest of the day in the
hospital. Only 1 of the attackers was punished - with a week's
vacation from school!

School officials claim they acted appropriately. The mother of the
victim is livid.

Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which
bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop
them.

  #2  
Old November 14th 05, 07:36 PM
Jennie
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Default No-spank policy smacks of failure

The occasional serious incident in a school is quite likely the result
of the abolition of corporal punishment, but the more important point
is that when CP was abolished, the standard of behaviour in schools
fell to a level where many competent teachers have quit. Standards of
achievement in schools have fallen to the point where about half the
children in Scotland cannot read or count -- one can hardly call what
they do in schools mathematics -- to 'Grade D' standard, the bare
minimum. See The Sunday Times Scotland 13/11/05.

This is a decline in educational standards serious enough to threaten
European civilisation itself: how can a nation be cultured if its
citizens are nearly illiterate? There are several reasons for this
decline, notably the torrent of cheap American rubbish on television,
but the absence of discipline in schools is in part due to the
abolition of the cane and the strap. Would the kids shout and disrupt
the class constantly if they knew they might be caned? I doubt it.

Jennie

  #3  
Old November 14th 05, 08:28 PM
Opinions
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Default No-spank policy smacks of failure

No one has yet gone broke underestimating the bad taste of the American
public. From automobiles to television, Americans are probably the
greatest purveyors of junk in the history of the world. Even the
current American president is junk.


Jennie wrote:
The occasional serious incident in a school is quite likely the result
of the abolition of corporal punishment, but the more important point
is that when CP was abolished, the standard of behaviour in schools
fell to a level where many competent teachers have quit. Standards of
achievement in schools have fallen to the point where about half the
children in Scotland cannot read or count -- one can hardly call what
they do in schools mathematics -- to 'Grade D' standard, the bare
minimum. See The Sunday Times Scotland 13/11/05.

This is a decline in educational standards serious enough to threaten
European civilisation itself: how can a nation be cultured if its
citizens are nearly illiterate? There are several reasons for this
decline, notably the torrent of cheap American rubbish on television,
but the absence of discipline in schools is in part due to the
abolition of the cane and the strap. Would the kids shout and disrupt
the class constantly if they knew they might be caned? I doubt it.

Jennie


  #4  
Old November 14th 05, 11:01 PM
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Default No-spank policy smacks of failure


Jennie wrote:
The occasional serious incident in a school is quite likely the result
of the abolition of corporal punishment, but the more important point
is that when CP was abolished, the standard of behaviour in schools
fell to a level where many competent teachers have quit.


No, many abusive underachievers quite because they could not understand
methods that didn't use intimidation and fear.

And you are entirely wrong.

Standards of
achievement in schools have fallen to the point where about half the
children in Scotland cannot read or count -- one can hardly call what
they do in schools mathematics -- to 'Grade D' standard, the bare
minimum. See The Sunday Times Scotland 13/11/05.


Sorry about Scotland. Here we have seen states with CP at the lower
rungs of academic achievement, and the behavioral problems much worse
in states the use the paddle on students.

This is a decline in educational standards serious enough to threaten
European civilisation itself: how can a nation be cultured if its
citizens are nearly illiterate?


You have a problem in Scotland. It's not one based on the failure to
switch or otherwise bea children.


There are several reasons for this
decline, notably the torrent of cheap American rubbish on television,


Likely chosen by a lot of people now in authority that were routinely
birched back when they went to school before the law stopped it.

but the absence of discipline in schools is in part due to the
abolition of the cane and the strap. Would the kids shout and disrupt
the class constantly if they knew they might be caned? I doubt it.


No, they'd find other ways. As they alway do. Your "civilization,"
presuming you consider yourself a Brit, has created a world of pain and
agony for billions over the past two centuries and beyond. The quicker
you sink into the oblivion you so richly deserve for the scourging of
the planet your civilization has been responsible for, the better.

Jennie


Kane

  #5  
Old November 14th 05, 11:09 PM
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Default No-spank policy smacks of failure


Opinions wrote:
Five years ago, 2/3 of parents in Britain thought student behavior had
gotten worse since corporal punishment was banned in the mid-1980s.

Last summer, concerns over bullying via cell phones prompted official
demands that all British schools institute anti-bullying policies.
There have also been calls to ban pencil boxes, hooded sweatshirts, and
anything else that one student can use to torment another.

Only a couple of weeks ago, a former Member of Parliament complained
about a video game in which players use their on-screen persona to kick
and punch peers in a school environment.

More recently, a 15-year-old British schoolgirl was physically attacked
by peers after receiving 2 awards for academic excellence. The attack
left the victim with various facial scratches and bruises in addition
to a bloody nose, a split eyelid, and a black eye. After the
mid-morning attack, the victim spent the rest of the day in the
hospital. Only 1 of the attackers was punished - with a week's
vacation from school!

School officials claim they acted appropriately. The mother of the
victim is livid.

Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which
bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop
them.


And you can provide even the slightest of evidence that not paddling in
public schools is the cause of this kind of behavior, and not other
social conditions?

Please proceed.

The brits have a lot of history of brutality toward children ... that
now resides in their adults population ... to get over. It's going to
take a generation or two.

The reason for banning the paddle resides in the evidence of history.
The current crop of older adults where in fact strapped and paddled. We
can see what they are like.

0:-

  #6  
Old November 16th 05, 02:15 AM
Carlson LaVonne
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Default Opinions and Giggles! was No-spank policy smacks of failure

Opinions wrote:

"Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which
bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop
them."

Where is your evidence that the behavior you describe below is a result
of banning corporal punishment in schools? Do you even know that the 15
year old who was victimized was victimized by adolescents that had not
been spanked?

For all you know, the perpetrators could have been children whose
parents spanked (a well-established correlation between spanked children
and aggressive behavior). The perpetrators could have been even further
abused at home.

You present no facts and no research, only one supposed opinion poll
from the mid 1980's, which you say was conducted five years ago. What a
hoot. This is 2005 and the supposed survey was conducted approximately
20 years ago.

No wonder you call yourself "opinions." You have nothing but opinions,
which you try to pass off as a universal fact. You can't even reference
a survey correctly.

You'd been a giggle when, in the face of scientific evidence, you
continued to declare the earth to be flat, and you would have had ample
survey evidence to support your "opinion."

LaVonne



Opinions wrote:
Five years ago, 2/3 of parents in Britain thought student behavior had
gotten worse since corporal punishment was banned in the mid-1980s.

Last summer, concerns over bullying via cell phones prompted official
demands that all British schools institute anti-bullying policies.
There have also been calls to ban pencil boxes, hooded sweatshirts, and
anything else that one student can use to torment another.

Only a couple of weeks ago, a former Member of Parliament complained
about a video game in which players use their on-screen persona to kick
and punch peers in a school environment.

More recently, a 15-year-old British schoolgirl was physically attacked
by peers after receiving 2 awards for academic excellence. The attack
left the victim with various facial scratches and bruises in addition
to a bloody nose, a split eyelid, and a black eye. After the
mid-morning attack, the victim spent the rest of the day in the
hospital. Only 1 of the attackers was punished - with a week's
vacation from school!

School officials claim they acted appropriately. The mother of the
victim is livid.

Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which
bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop
them.


  #7  
Old November 16th 05, 08:16 AM
Doan
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Default LaVonne a Liar Opinions and Giggles! was No-spank policysmacks of failure


And you are a PROVEN liar, LaVonne. ;-)

Doan


On Tue, 15 Nov 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Opinions wrote:

"Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which
bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop
them."

Where is your evidence that the behavior you describe below is a result
of banning corporal punishment in schools? Do you even know that the 15
year old who was victimized was victimized by adolescents that had not
been spanked?

For all you know, the perpetrators could have been children whose
parents spanked (a well-established correlation between spanked children
and aggressive behavior). The perpetrators could have been even further
abused at home.

You present no facts and no research, only one supposed opinion poll
from the mid 1980's, which you say was conducted five years ago. What a
hoot. This is 2005 and the supposed survey was conducted approximately
20 years ago.

No wonder you call yourself "opinions." You have nothing but opinions,
which you try to pass off as a universal fact. You can't even reference
a survey correctly.

You'd been a giggle when, in the face of scientific evidence, you
continued to declare the earth to be flat, and you would have had ample
survey evidence to support your "opinion."

LaVonne



Opinions wrote:
Five years ago, 2/3 of parents in Britain thought student behavior had
gotten worse since corporal punishment was banned in the mid-1980s.

Last summer, concerns over bullying via cell phones prompted official
demands that all British schools institute anti-bullying policies.
There have also been calls to ban pencil boxes, hooded sweatshirts, and
anything else that one student can use to torment another.

Only a couple of weeks ago, a former Member of Parliament complained
about a video game in which players use their on-screen persona to kick
and punch peers in a school environment.

More recently, a 15-year-old British schoolgirl was physically attacked
by peers after receiving 2 awards for academic excellence. The attack
left the victim with various facial scratches and bruises in addition
to a bloody nose, a split eyelid, and a black eye. After the
mid-morning attack, the victim spent the rest of the day in the
hospital. Only 1 of the attackers was punished - with a week's
vacation from school!

School officials claim they acted appropriately. The mother of the
victim is livid.

Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which
bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop
them.




  #8  
Old November 16th 05, 04:57 PM
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Default Opinions and Giggles! was No-spank policy smacks of failure

It becomes tiresomely boring, though humorus, to continually, study
after study, reveal the truth to the apolgists and compulsives. Here's
yet another finding showing the pointlessness and damage of punitive
physical punishment:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

Year after year you, I, others, have posted similar to this ng and the
apologists and compulsives are so lost in their need to defend this
savage outmoded practice they insist on lying about whether or not we
have so posted.

The desire to endlessly debate the same tired nonsense they are unable
to get past smacks of the worst kind of cargo cult mentallity. Because
spanking looks like it works, regardless of the real negative outcomes,
they continue to pretend to themselves spanking has some real useful
child rearing components.

Sigh.

" ... Source: Society for Research in Child Development
Date: 2005-11-14

Spanking Leads To Child Aggression And Anxiety, Regardless Of Cultural
Norm

No matter what the cultural norm, children who are physically
disciplined with spanking and other such approaches are more likely to
be anxious and aggressive than children who are disciplined in other
ways. This finding, published in the November/December journal Child
Development, comes from surveys of parents and children in six
different countries. ... "

By the way, LaVonne, just thought I'd take this opportunity to thank
you for the 60 to 80 times you have either posted reference or portions
of and to various studies that pertained to outcomes and other related
issues in the use of corporal punishment.

Can't imagine how anyone, unless they were lying, would make claims
you've not done so.

It becomes tiresomely boring, though humorus, to continually, study
after study, reveal the truth to the apolgists and compulsives. Here's
yet another finding showing the pointlessness and damage of punitive
physical punishment:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

Year after year you, I, others, have posted similar to this ng and the
apologists and compulsives are so lost in their need to defend this
savage outmoded practice they insist on lying about whether or not we
have so posted.

The desire to endlessly debate the same tired nonsense they are unable
to get past smacks of the worst kind of cargo cult mentallity. Because
spanking looks like it works, regardless of the real negative outcomes,
they continue to pretend to themselves spanking has some real useful
child rearing components.

Sigh.

Wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for the 60 to 80 posts
you've provided over the years where you specifically cited studies on
the subject, and more specifically discussed the reports findings
outcomes in terms of anti social behavior issues.

http://tinyurl.com/eytqj

Don't you find it interesting that anyone would lie about something so
obviously easy to prove otherwise? What happens to so many people when
they are spanked as children that would lead them into such unethical
behavior, or self delusion?

Hard to imagine, if we didn't have so many horrible examples, such
people coming into positions of power, authority, and decision making
for the rest of us. Thank goodness they are gradually being replaced
over time.

Trying to debate the issues, including posting relevant and well
constructed research and reports, with a few yapping small dogs around
the edges of the discussion is quite interesting.

Too bad there isn't a kennel for them.

Apparently they are so accustomed to and expectant of being spanked
they can't handle real debate, with or without the spanking.

0:-

  #9  
Old November 20th 05, 07:15 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Default No-spank policy smacks of failure

The latest figure (reported in Scotland on Sunday today, 20/11/05)
shows that 36 teachers were deliberately injured by pupils in the last
twelve months, seriously enough to need treatment in hospital. Such
incidents were pretty well unknown before CP was abolished in schools
(and yes, I was caned at school).

Jennie

  #10  
Old November 20th 05, 07:17 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Default Opinions and Giggles! was No-spank policy smacks of failure

You too are a giggle when you insist, in the teeth of common sense and
all the experience that anyone has ever had, that children behave
better when they are freely allowed to go on the rampage.

Jennie

 




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