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#1
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No-spank policy smacks of failure
Five years ago, 2/3 of parents in Britain thought student behavior had
gotten worse since corporal punishment was banned in the mid-1980s. Last summer, concerns over bullying via cell phones prompted official demands that all British schools institute anti-bullying policies. There have also been calls to ban pencil boxes, hooded sweatshirts, and anything else that one student can use to torment another. Only a couple of weeks ago, a former Member of Parliament complained about a video game in which players use their on-screen persona to kick and punch peers in a school environment. More recently, a 15-year-old British schoolgirl was physically attacked by peers after receiving 2 awards for academic excellence. The attack left the victim with various facial scratches and bruises in addition to a bloody nose, a split eyelid, and a black eye. After the mid-morning attack, the victim spent the rest of the day in the hospital. Only 1 of the attackers was punished - with a week's vacation from school! School officials claim they acted appropriately. The mother of the victim is livid. Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop them. |
#2
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No-spank policy smacks of failure
The occasional serious incident in a school is quite likely the result
of the abolition of corporal punishment, but the more important point is that when CP was abolished, the standard of behaviour in schools fell to a level where many competent teachers have quit. Standards of achievement in schools have fallen to the point where about half the children in Scotland cannot read or count -- one can hardly call what they do in schools mathematics -- to 'Grade D' standard, the bare minimum. See The Sunday Times Scotland 13/11/05. This is a decline in educational standards serious enough to threaten European civilisation itself: how can a nation be cultured if its citizens are nearly illiterate? There are several reasons for this decline, notably the torrent of cheap American rubbish on television, but the absence of discipline in schools is in part due to the abolition of the cane and the strap. Would the kids shout and disrupt the class constantly if they knew they might be caned? I doubt it. Jennie |
#3
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No-spank policy smacks of failure
No one has yet gone broke underestimating the bad taste of the American
public. From automobiles to television, Americans are probably the greatest purveyors of junk in the history of the world. Even the current American president is junk. Jennie wrote: The occasional serious incident in a school is quite likely the result of the abolition of corporal punishment, but the more important point is that when CP was abolished, the standard of behaviour in schools fell to a level where many competent teachers have quit. Standards of achievement in schools have fallen to the point where about half the children in Scotland cannot read or count -- one can hardly call what they do in schools mathematics -- to 'Grade D' standard, the bare minimum. See The Sunday Times Scotland 13/11/05. This is a decline in educational standards serious enough to threaten European civilisation itself: how can a nation be cultured if its citizens are nearly illiterate? There are several reasons for this decline, notably the torrent of cheap American rubbish on television, but the absence of discipline in schools is in part due to the abolition of the cane and the strap. Would the kids shout and disrupt the class constantly if they knew they might be caned? I doubt it. Jennie |
#4
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No-spank policy smacks of failure
Jennie wrote: The occasional serious incident in a school is quite likely the result of the abolition of corporal punishment, but the more important point is that when CP was abolished, the standard of behaviour in schools fell to a level where many competent teachers have quit. No, many abusive underachievers quite because they could not understand methods that didn't use intimidation and fear. And you are entirely wrong. Standards of achievement in schools have fallen to the point where about half the children in Scotland cannot read or count -- one can hardly call what they do in schools mathematics -- to 'Grade D' standard, the bare minimum. See The Sunday Times Scotland 13/11/05. Sorry about Scotland. Here we have seen states with CP at the lower rungs of academic achievement, and the behavioral problems much worse in states the use the paddle on students. This is a decline in educational standards serious enough to threaten European civilisation itself: how can a nation be cultured if its citizens are nearly illiterate? You have a problem in Scotland. It's not one based on the failure to switch or otherwise bea children. There are several reasons for this decline, notably the torrent of cheap American rubbish on television, Likely chosen by a lot of people now in authority that were routinely birched back when they went to school before the law stopped it. but the absence of discipline in schools is in part due to the abolition of the cane and the strap. Would the kids shout and disrupt the class constantly if they knew they might be caned? I doubt it. No, they'd find other ways. As they alway do. Your "civilization," presuming you consider yourself a Brit, has created a world of pain and agony for billions over the past two centuries and beyond. The quicker you sink into the oblivion you so richly deserve for the scourging of the planet your civilization has been responsible for, the better. Jennie Kane |
#5
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No-spank policy smacks of failure
Opinions wrote: Five years ago, 2/3 of parents in Britain thought student behavior had gotten worse since corporal punishment was banned in the mid-1980s. Last summer, concerns over bullying via cell phones prompted official demands that all British schools institute anti-bullying policies. There have also been calls to ban pencil boxes, hooded sweatshirts, and anything else that one student can use to torment another. Only a couple of weeks ago, a former Member of Parliament complained about a video game in which players use their on-screen persona to kick and punch peers in a school environment. More recently, a 15-year-old British schoolgirl was physically attacked by peers after receiving 2 awards for academic excellence. The attack left the victim with various facial scratches and bruises in addition to a bloody nose, a split eyelid, and a black eye. After the mid-morning attack, the victim spent the rest of the day in the hospital. Only 1 of the attackers was punished - with a week's vacation from school! School officials claim they acted appropriately. The mother of the victim is livid. Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop them. And you can provide even the slightest of evidence that not paddling in public schools is the cause of this kind of behavior, and not other social conditions? Please proceed. The brits have a lot of history of brutality toward children ... that now resides in their adults population ... to get over. It's going to take a generation or two. The reason for banning the paddle resides in the evidence of history. The current crop of older adults where in fact strapped and paddled. We can see what they are like. 0:- |
#6
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Opinions and Giggles! was No-spank policy smacks of failure
Opinions wrote:
"Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop them." Where is your evidence that the behavior you describe below is a result of banning corporal punishment in schools? Do you even know that the 15 year old who was victimized was victimized by adolescents that had not been spanked? For all you know, the perpetrators could have been children whose parents spanked (a well-established correlation between spanked children and aggressive behavior). The perpetrators could have been even further abused at home. You present no facts and no research, only one supposed opinion poll from the mid 1980's, which you say was conducted five years ago. What a hoot. This is 2005 and the supposed survey was conducted approximately 20 years ago. No wonder you call yourself "opinions." You have nothing but opinions, which you try to pass off as a universal fact. You can't even reference a survey correctly. You'd been a giggle when, in the face of scientific evidence, you continued to declare the earth to be flat, and you would have had ample survey evidence to support your "opinion." LaVonne Opinions wrote: Five years ago, 2/3 of parents in Britain thought student behavior had gotten worse since corporal punishment was banned in the mid-1980s. Last summer, concerns over bullying via cell phones prompted official demands that all British schools institute anti-bullying policies. There have also been calls to ban pencil boxes, hooded sweatshirts, and anything else that one student can use to torment another. Only a couple of weeks ago, a former Member of Parliament complained about a video game in which players use their on-screen persona to kick and punch peers in a school environment. More recently, a 15-year-old British schoolgirl was physically attacked by peers after receiving 2 awards for academic excellence. The attack left the victim with various facial scratches and bruises in addition to a bloody nose, a split eyelid, and a black eye. After the mid-morning attack, the victim spent the rest of the day in the hospital. Only 1 of the attackers was punished - with a week's vacation from school! School officials claim they acted appropriately. The mother of the victim is livid. Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop them. |
#7
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LaVonne a Liar Opinions and Giggles! was No-spank policysmacks of failure
And you are a PROVEN liar, LaVonne. ;-) Doan On Tue, 15 Nov 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Opinions wrote: "Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop them." Where is your evidence that the behavior you describe below is a result of banning corporal punishment in schools? Do you even know that the 15 year old who was victimized was victimized by adolescents that had not been spanked? For all you know, the perpetrators could have been children whose parents spanked (a well-established correlation between spanked children and aggressive behavior). The perpetrators could have been even further abused at home. You present no facts and no research, only one supposed opinion poll from the mid 1980's, which you say was conducted five years ago. What a hoot. This is 2005 and the supposed survey was conducted approximately 20 years ago. No wonder you call yourself "opinions." You have nothing but opinions, which you try to pass off as a universal fact. You can't even reference a survey correctly. You'd been a giggle when, in the face of scientific evidence, you continued to declare the earth to be flat, and you would have had ample survey evidence to support your "opinion." LaVonne Opinions wrote: Five years ago, 2/3 of parents in Britain thought student behavior had gotten worse since corporal punishment was banned in the mid-1980s. Last summer, concerns over bullying via cell phones prompted official demands that all British schools institute anti-bullying policies. There have also been calls to ban pencil boxes, hooded sweatshirts, and anything else that one student can use to torment another. Only a couple of weeks ago, a former Member of Parliament complained about a video game in which players use their on-screen persona to kick and punch peers in a school environment. More recently, a 15-year-old British schoolgirl was physically attacked by peers after receiving 2 awards for academic excellence. The attack left the victim with various facial scratches and bruises in addition to a bloody nose, a split eyelid, and a black eye. After the mid-morning attack, the victim spent the rest of the day in the hospital. Only 1 of the attackers was punished - with a week's vacation from school! School officials claim they acted appropriately. The mother of the victim is livid. Welcome to the wonderful world of no-spank. It is a world in which bullies run rampant and school officials do little or nothing to stop them. |
#8
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Opinions and Giggles! was No-spank policy smacks of failure
It becomes tiresomely boring, though humorus, to continually, study
after study, reveal the truth to the apolgists and compulsives. Here's yet another finding showing the pointlessness and damage of punitive physical punishment: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm Year after year you, I, others, have posted similar to this ng and the apologists and compulsives are so lost in their need to defend this savage outmoded practice they insist on lying about whether or not we have so posted. The desire to endlessly debate the same tired nonsense they are unable to get past smacks of the worst kind of cargo cult mentallity. Because spanking looks like it works, regardless of the real negative outcomes, they continue to pretend to themselves spanking has some real useful child rearing components. Sigh. " ... Source: Society for Research in Child Development Date: 2005-11-14 Spanking Leads To Child Aggression And Anxiety, Regardless Of Cultural Norm No matter what the cultural norm, children who are physically disciplined with spanking and other such approaches are more likely to be anxious and aggressive than children who are disciplined in other ways. This finding, published in the November/December journal Child Development, comes from surveys of parents and children in six different countries. ... " By the way, LaVonne, just thought I'd take this opportunity to thank you for the 60 to 80 times you have either posted reference or portions of and to various studies that pertained to outcomes and other related issues in the use of corporal punishment. Can't imagine how anyone, unless they were lying, would make claims you've not done so. It becomes tiresomely boring, though humorus, to continually, study after study, reveal the truth to the apolgists and compulsives. Here's yet another finding showing the pointlessness and damage of punitive physical punishment: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm Year after year you, I, others, have posted similar to this ng and the apologists and compulsives are so lost in their need to defend this savage outmoded practice they insist on lying about whether or not we have so posted. The desire to endlessly debate the same tired nonsense they are unable to get past smacks of the worst kind of cargo cult mentallity. Because spanking looks like it works, regardless of the real negative outcomes, they continue to pretend to themselves spanking has some real useful child rearing components. Sigh. Wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for the 60 to 80 posts you've provided over the years where you specifically cited studies on the subject, and more specifically discussed the reports findings outcomes in terms of anti social behavior issues. http://tinyurl.com/eytqj Don't you find it interesting that anyone would lie about something so obviously easy to prove otherwise? What happens to so many people when they are spanked as children that would lead them into such unethical behavior, or self delusion? Hard to imagine, if we didn't have so many horrible examples, such people coming into positions of power, authority, and decision making for the rest of us. Thank goodness they are gradually being replaced over time. Trying to debate the issues, including posting relevant and well constructed research and reports, with a few yapping small dogs around the edges of the discussion is quite interesting. Too bad there isn't a kennel for them. Apparently they are so accustomed to and expectant of being spanked they can't handle real debate, with or without the spanking. 0:- |
#9
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No-spank policy smacks of failure
The latest figure (reported in Scotland on Sunday today, 20/11/05)
shows that 36 teachers were deliberately injured by pupils in the last twelve months, seriously enough to need treatment in hospital. Such incidents were pretty well unknown before CP was abolished in schools (and yes, I was caned at school). Jennie |
#10
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Opinions and Giggles! was No-spank policy smacks of failure
You too are a giggle when you insist, in the teeth of common sense and
all the experience that anyone has ever had, that children behave better when they are freely allowed to go on the rampage. Jennie |
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