how long does it take for your milk to dry up?

"V." wrote in message
...

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
I am now on Remeron, which I absolutely love. However, they advised
against BF'ing on this particular drug because of the lack of studies.
I continue to feed Emily my milk though, because I am taking half of the
lowest dose possible. I am taking half of a 15mg tablet in the evening
and it is working great now. I'd rather have her on my breast milk for
as long as possible.

don't know anything about this drug, is it an SSRI?

Anne


Remeron is a "tetracyclic". (Most antidepressants are SSRIs or
"tricyclics".) SSRIs block the reuptake of serotonin, but Remeron blocks
the receptors that inhibit the release of serotonin and norepinephrin.
So, it sort of takes the brakes off the release of serotonin, resulting in
more serotonin in the synapses. SSRIs don't affect the release of
serotonin, but instead stop it from being "reabsorbed", which also results
in higher levels in the synapses. Two different ways of getting the same
result, but each works better for different people. It's been around
awhile, but can have more side effects than SSRIs so it's not used as
much. IIRC it tends to make people more drowsy than SSRIs.
Tricyclics work much the same way as SSRIs except that they also effect
norepinephrine, so if your depression is related to low norepinephrine
levels as well as serotonin, either Remeron or a tricyclic is probably
going to work better than an SSRI. Problem is, we don't have ways of
measuring which neurotransmitter you need more of, so the only way to tell
is by which medication works for you. Everybody gets to be their own
guinea pig!
HTH,
Amy

Gosh, thanks! Now I understand it better myself! And I've been on a dozen
drugs in my adult life for depression, so I understand being a guinea pig.
Remeron has worked the best for me.

Betsy

"Morag in Oxford" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't pump until you're "empty" - just enough to relieve the
tenderness/pain. Then your body will gradually get the message to produce
less and less.

That's exactly what I did. Three days.

Jess

In article ,
"oregonchick" wrote:

It is not difficult. I just hate the feeling of a baby sucking on my
breast. I also hate the feeling of a pump sucking on my breast, but
marginally less.

What's odd to me is that I've never felt a sucking sensation, and I am now
BFing my second child. I fell let-down sometimes, but not *sucking*. The
baby's mouth feels warm, that's all. Are you sure that your baby was latched
on properly?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.

Sidheag and Anne are both being much more polite than I am on this one.
You need a good smack upside the head.

There are many, many women out there who would kill to be in your
position. You have a fabulous milk supply and no obvious latch
problems. You've set up a great situation where you have lots of help,
you get exercise, and seem to be getting enough sleep. And now you want
to give up?

It seems to me that you simply have unrealistic expectations of
motherhood. After you have a baby, life does not center around you
anymore. As a friend of mine put it, when it's just you and DH, you're
in a relationship where each person has one vote. When you have a baby,
you add a person with 18 votes. It's nothing but compromise. Many women
are willing to give up aspects of their old lives permanently or
temporarily because they receive great joy from their babies. I don't
think you've reached the point where you really like your baby yet. It
took me more than 6 weeks and I don't have clinical PPD. Furthermore,
it seems you're doing everything you can to avoid bonding with your
baby.

There's a whole bunch of things that you don't like about bf'ing--
having a baby suck on your breast, having your boobs hang out, having a
baby dependent on you (the baby *is* dependent on you, what you makes
you think otherwise?), pumping outside of your home, can't take your
preferred tricyclic, you're hungry all the time... and the list goes
on. You've put yourself in an impossible situation of dislikes where
the only reasonable option is to stop pumping. What mother has not had
to do something she didn't like?

One of the reasons that you gave for stopping pumping is it interferred
with your ski trips and you don't like pumping in the car. How long are
you away for anyways? You're only pumping 3-4 times a day and by my
calculations, that's 6-8 hours between pumping. Is that not enough? I'm
sure having a day away and time for yourself helps with the PPD, and
that's important too. Consider yourself lucky that you have enough
support to go skiing and you can afford to go skiing. Many mothers are
back at work after 6 weeks.

You can't go more than 30 minutes on your elliptical trainer? How long
do you want to go anyways? And how often? And what are you trying to
achieve? Good cardiovascular health can be achieved with 20-30 minutes
3x per week. Be realististic, 30 minutes is a long time for a 6-week
old and if she can be quiet for that long, she's doing really well. And
what is your other child doing during this? BTW, the elliptical trainer
burns more calories than almost any other exercise machine. One hour of
this will burn 500 calories easily, which is competitive with the
amount of energy that you're putting in to breastmilk. Every bf'ing
woman that I've talked to has trouble eating enough. This goes double
for you because you put out so much milk.

Let's put this into perspective. Your baby was not premature, she
doesn't have any diseases, and she is growing well. That's a lot to be
grateful for. Yes, you've had problems with PPD, thrush, and cracked
nipples at the beginning. Who hasn't? I have been bf'ing for 3.5 months
and 1 week of that has been pain-free. No one ever said motherhood
would be easy and anyone who did was lying. Babyhood and childhood go
by quickly, and I often say thank goodness for that. But there are
moments in there to treasure because there are no second chances.

Five months of breast milk is a great start and I'm sure that your baby
will be fine. It's the other aspects of your relationship with her that
need help.

Susan


Sidheag McCormack wrote:
oregonchick writes:

I am working on stopping the pumping altogether. I just don't want to do
this routine anymore. I won't go back to breastfeeding either, so I'm
trying to "dry up". But I have no idea on how to go about it. I am only
pumping every 6-8 hrs, but still put out over 16 oz every time, which is
almost double what she eats. I can't stop cold turkey, the engorgement
is unbearable. Is there a "method" for stopping breastfeeding?

I haven't anything to add to what the others have said on the actual
question, but since you *haven't* in fact had a lot of people giving
reasons for not stopping... I wonder whether you would at least consider
taking two or three weeks to have a(nother) serious try at getting your PPD
treated, before you give up? I'd hate you to give up pumping and then find
you feel no better, because the pumping wasn't actually the problem. (You
should not have to stop feeding to take PPD meds: if your doctor tells you
to do this, you need a new doctor, IMHO.)

Also, I saw that elsewhere you asked questions about burning calories by
exercising. If that's a concern, giving up pumping makes no sense - with a
new baby, there's no way you'll get enough exercising time to burn remotely
as many calories as you're currently burning to make milk. I think it's
also possible that having this concern so early is itself because of the
PPD, so to me it's another red flag. (Of course, I accept that exercising
has many benefits besides burning calories - but then so does
breastfeeding, or pumping milk for your baby!)

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

"Anne Rogers" ) writes:

Well, like I said, every 6-8 hrs, so sometimes only 3 times in 24 hrs...

sorry I missed that, so instead of cutting one out, I would only pump 14 oz
each time and then 12 and so on

Yes, that sounds right. First, gradually reduce the amount
you pump. Doesn't even have to be that gradual, maybe.
Then, once your breasts are accustomed to a much smaller
amount, it will be easier to
go longer between pumping sessions. You can go down
to pumping a small amount twice a day, then pumping a
small amount once a day, then maybe stop or do once
per two days once or twice. I've seen the advice to pump
just enough to relieve engorgement: maybe only pump
one or two ounces, and later on maybe just
a few drops. It might be excessive to suddenly
reduce the amount that much, though.

Re PPD: for depression in general, I really recommend
the book "10 Days to Self-Esteem" by David Burns.
Vitamin C is good, too.

Re not liking the feel of baby nursing: one thing
that might help is taking choline supplements.
Choline is needed by the part of the nervous system
that ignores unwanted stimuli (either the sympathetic
or parasympathetic, I can never remember which).
It seems to help me with things like being able to
concentrate while ignoring noises. Another thing that
might help is having a good latch, with baby's mouth
open very wide.

Chookie ) writes:
What's odd to me is that I've never felt a sucking sensation, and I am now
BFing my second child. I fell let-down sometimes, but not *sucking*. The
baby's mouth feels warm, that's all. Are you sure that your baby was latched
on properly?

One problem with some babies is that they were given a
bottle early on, sometimes before the first nursing.
This tends to affect the way they suckle. Ability and
style of suckling/latching will also vary from baby to
baby whether they had a bottle or not. Latching
the baby properly, with extremely wide-open mouth,
leads to a lot less irritation of the nipple.

Tender nipples also depend on the hormonal state
of the mother. Nipples tend to be tender in the
first few days and weeks after the baby is born;
much more tender if nursing while pregnant; tender
during menstrual periods, etc. There may be drugs
or herbs that would affect nipple tenderness one
way or the other.

I think pumps are usually harder on nipples than
babies, (not sure about that,)
so maybe the baby has an unusually strong suck.

I believe bonding with the baby really helps to cure
post-partum depression. At first, a mother with extreme PPD
may feel that it's meaningless and empty to spend time holding
the baby, looking at the baby, carrying the baby around,
stroking and kissing the baby. But if she makes the
effort to do these actions anyway, what tends to happen
is that within a few days, the actions begin to feel
more and more loving. As those loving feelings develop, the PPD
tends to go away.

One theory of post-partum depression is that somehow
the mother's body has gotten the message that her baby
has died. When giving birth she was all primed to
bond with a baby, but if that bonding was interfered
with somehow (drugs, baby taken into another room, etc.)
then she reacts with grief at an emotional, physical
level even if intellectually she knows that her baby
is alive and well. However, bonding can happen at
any time. It can be a gradual process based on
deliberately spending time holding baby, watching
baby smile, etc.

After reading your email, I've decided that I probably shouldn't have had
this baby in the first place. My older daughter is 8, and I never intended
to have another one. However, my husband is childless, and I wanted him to
have the experience of being a parent, even though it was something he and I
both knew I wasn't very keen on.

Thanks for all your help.

"Benevolent Prof" wrote in message
oups.com...
Sidheag and Anne are both being much more polite than I am on this one.
You need a good smack upside the head.

There are many, many women out there who would kill to be in your
position. You have a fabulous milk supply and no obvious latch
problems. You've set up a great situation where you have lots of help,
you get exercise, and seem to be getting enough sleep. And now you want
to give up?

It seems to me that you simply have unrealistic expectations of
motherhood. After you have a baby, life does not center around you
anymore. As a friend of mine put it, when it's just you and DH, you're
in a relationship where each person has one vote. When you have a baby,
you add a person with 18 votes. It's nothing but compromise. Many women
are willing to give up aspects of their old lives permanently or
temporarily because they receive great joy from their babies. I don't
think you've reached the point where you really like your baby yet. It
took me more than 6 weeks and I don't have clinical PPD. Furthermore,
it seems you're doing everything you can to avoid bonding with your
baby.

There's a whole bunch of things that you don't like about bf'ing--
having a baby suck on your breast, having your boobs hang out, having a
baby dependent on you (the baby *is* dependent on you, what you makes
you think otherwise?), pumping outside of your home, can't take your
preferred tricyclic, you're hungry all the time... and the list goes
on. You've put yourself in an impossible situation of dislikes where
the only reasonable option is to stop pumping. What mother has not had
to do something she didn't like?

One of the reasons that you gave for stopping pumping is it interferred
with your ski trips and you don't like pumping in the car. How long are
you away for anyways? You're only pumping 3-4 times a day and by my
calculations, that's 6-8 hours between pumping. Is that not enough? I'm
sure having a day away and time for yourself helps with the PPD, and
that's important too. Consider yourself lucky that you have enough
support to go skiing and you can afford to go skiing. Many mothers are
back at work after 6 weeks.

You can't go more than 30 minutes on your elliptical trainer? How long
do you want to go anyways? And how often? And what are you trying to
achieve? Good cardiovascular health can be achieved with 20-30 minutes
3x per week. Be realististic, 30 minutes is a long time for a 6-week
old and if she can be quiet for that long, she's doing really well. And
what is your other child doing during this? BTW, the elliptical trainer
burns more calories than almost any other exercise machine. One hour of
this will burn 500 calories easily, which is competitive with the
amount of energy that you're putting in to breastmilk. Every bf'ing
woman that I've talked to has trouble eating enough. This goes double
for you because you put out so much milk.

Let's put this into perspective. Your baby was not premature, she
doesn't have any diseases, and she is growing well. That's a lot to be
grateful for. Yes, you've had problems with PPD, thrush, and cracked
nipples at the beginning. Who hasn't? I have been bf'ing for 3.5 months
and 1 week of that has been pain-free. No one ever said motherhood
would be easy and anyone who did was lying. Babyhood and childhood go
by quickly, and I often say thank goodness for that. But there are
moments in there to treasure because there are no second chances.

Five months of breast milk is a great start and I'm sure that your baby
will be fine. It's the other aspects of your relationship with her that
need help.

Susan


Sidheag McCormack wrote:
oregonchick writes:

I am working on stopping the pumping altogether. I just don't want to
do
this routine anymore. I won't go back to breastfeeding either, so I'm
trying to "dry up". But I have no idea on how to go about it. I am
only
pumping every 6-8 hrs, but still put out over 16 oz every time, which
is
almost double what she eats. I can't stop cold turkey, the engorgement
is unbearable. Is there a "method" for stopping breastfeeding?

I haven't anything to add to what the others have said on the actual
question, but since you *haven't* in fact had a lot of people giving
reasons for not stopping... I wonder whether you would at least consider
taking two or three weeks to have a(nother) serious try at getting your
PPD
treated, before you give up? I'd hate you to give up pumping and then
find
you feel no better, because the pumping wasn't actually the problem. (You
should not have to stop feeding to take PPD meds: if your doctor tells
you
to do this, you need a new doctor, IMHO.)

Also, I saw that elsewhere you asked questions about burning calories by
exercising. If that's a concern, giving up pumping makes no sense - with
a
new baby, there's no way you'll get enough exercising time to burn
remotely
as many calories as you're currently burning to make milk. I think it's
also possible that having this concern so early is itself because of the
PPD, so to me it's another red flag. (Of course, I accept that exercising
has many benefits besides burning calories - but then so does
breastfeeding, or pumping milk for your baby!)

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

After reading your email, I've decided that I probably shouldn't have had
this baby in the first place.

Well, unfortunately for the innocent involved, you did anyway. So
instead of whining about how it's so haaaard to deal with pumping or
childcare when you want to ski or do the elliptical (neither of which
are exactly activities which take priority to your child's welfare),
maybe you can decide to deal with the responsibility and either parent
the baby properly, or find people who can. No child deserves to grow
up with a detached, resentful mother.

tristyn

"tristyn" wrote in message

Well, unfortunately for the innocent involved, you did anyway. So
instead of whining about how it's so haaaard to deal with pumping or
childcare when you want to ski or do the elliptical (neither of which
are exactly activities which take priority to your child's welfare),
maybe you can decide to deal with the responsibility and either parent
the baby properly, or find people who can. No child deserves to grow
up with a detached, resentful mother.

tristyn


You know, I wasn't serious when I posted that. I'm just sick of the people
who act as though they know the RIGHT way, the ONLY way, and everyone else
is wrong. I am not a natural mother. This has been very difficult for me
to adjust to. I've had alot of depression since having the baby. I had
decided long ago that I wasn't having any more children, until I met and
married my husband. And changing my entire life again for a newborn has
taken a real toll. But...I am doing my best. Even though I don't like it,
I have put my daughter's needs first. And I am still pumping away, morning
noon and night to make sure she has the best possible nutrition. But I have
been able to somewhat tailor the pumping schedule around my "life". Yes, I
have chosen to continue to have my own life. I am selfish. It is the only
thing that keeps me sane, in the middle of the night when I rock her and she
just won't sleep, and all those other times I ask myself, "why did I do this
again?"

Working out, on my elliptical or skiing, IS a priority, which provides me
with an outlet for my frustrations, gives me energy and vitality, makes me
feel good, gets me outside and basically gives me the strength to be a mom.
I ski and work out about 15 hrs a week. The other 99.9% of my life is
dedicated to and revolves around everyone else - my baby, my other daughter,
my husband, the dogs, and the piles of laundry and dirty dishes and messy
house. Beyond and outside of those recreational activities, I don't have a
life beyond a wife and mother. I don't feel guilty for how I feel, or what
I've said. I know I am not the only woman who has decided with some
reluctance to have another baby later in life, and have had major struggles
with those decisions.

Betsy