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#11
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something I can't really understand...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "whatamess" wrote in message oups.com... On May 17, 11:10 pm, "Chris" wrote: "Gini" wrote in message news:T_33i.7514$4a1.5640@trndny07... "whatamess" wrote Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an additional child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage, etc...How do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's say 18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose their house since they can no longer afford the house payment for the additional child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can no longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company, the mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can manage??? Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last check comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay the equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that they all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc??? == My husband's ex did nearly all the above even though she had a decent salary of her own as a college instructor. Stepson came to live with us when he turned 18 as his mom kicked him out--said she couldn't afford him without CS. He finished school and college here. He was only in 10th grade at 18 because he had learning disabilities. He thrived here and went on to state university (here). He's now 27 but has been on his own for several years. I have no idea how his mother is doing financially now. The judge did tell her at the last hearing (years ago) that she was going to have to learn to live on less money. She had asked the court to increase the CS for the remaining child to the amt we were paying for the two ($1200.mo). Yep--She tried :-) This brings to mind some questions. A child turns 18 thus becoming a legal adult. For whatever reason, "child support" is ordered to continue. Can the court legally prohibit the child from residing with the father? And if the child lives with the father 100% of the time, does the father still have to pay money to the mother? - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable to me...hehe... OK, let's say actually that the same CP who kicks out the 18 yr. old sates they have to leave because they cannot afford them in their house...so 18 yr. old goes to NCP house... Then, NCP decides to take the CP to court to ask for child support because the child decides to go to school, therefore, the NCP will pay for college and just needs the CP to pay CS...hmmmm...DO YOU THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL CP WOULD ALL OF A SUDDEN SAY NO AND CLAIM THE 18YR OLD IS NOW AN ADULT? hehe...OR WOULD THEY SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ANY INCREMENTAL COST BECAUSE THE NCP DIDN"T HAVE TO BUY A NEW HOUSE, blah, blah...hmmm... Can you get a CS order if the "child" is already 18, and there was not an order before? Doesn't the original order have to be in place before the "child" reaches the age of majority? The state of Oregon changes this adult child attending school CS law about as often as I change my underwear. Under prior law a CS order extending CS beyond age 18 ended when an adult child stopped going to college. Under current law a CS order can be reinstated if a child re-enrolls in college before they reach age 21. The problem with this law is the child has to ask to legally join the CS case in order to force the CP to pay college support too. Otherwise, only the NCP can be ordered to pay college support. The child has to hire an attorney to get the CP to be ordered to pay CS just like the NCP. And if they don't, any arrearage CS goes to the CP not the child as the law allows. So NCP's must stay current on CS payments for college age children or the CS money defaults to the CP. These CS laws providing CS for college students are so filled with exceptions and caveats it's difficult to keep up with them. And, if a "child" reenters college at, say, 20 years 3 months of age, how long would the NCP be expected to pay? A default 4 years? Or until the degree is obtained, no matter how long it takes? Or only until a certain age? |
#12
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something I can't really understand...
"teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "whatamess" wrote in message oups.com... On May 17, 11:10 pm, "Chris" wrote: "Gini" wrote in message news:T_33i.7514$4a1.5640@trndny07... "whatamess" wrote Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an additional child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage, etc...How do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's say 18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose their house since they can no longer afford the house payment for the additional child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can no longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company, the mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can manage??? Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last check comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay the equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that they all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc??? == My husband's ex did nearly all the above even though she had a decent salary of her own as a college instructor. Stepson came to live with us when he turned 18 as his mom kicked him out--said she couldn't afford him without CS. He finished school and college here. He was only in 10th grade at 18 because he had learning disabilities. He thrived here and went on to state university (here). He's now 27 but has been on his own for several years. I have no idea how his mother is doing financially now. The judge did tell her at the last hearing (years ago) that she was going to have to learn to live on less money. She had asked the court to increase the CS for the remaining child to the amt we were paying for the two ($1200.mo). Yep--She tried :-) This brings to mind some questions. A child turns 18 thus becoming a legal adult. For whatever reason, "child support" is ordered to continue. Can the court legally prohibit the child from residing with the father? And if the child lives with the father 100% of the time, does the father still have to pay money to the mother? - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable to me...hehe... OK, let's say actually that the same CP who kicks out the 18 yr. old sates they have to leave because they cannot afford them in their house...so 18 yr. old goes to NCP house... Then, NCP decides to take the CP to court to ask for child support because the child decides to go to school, therefore, the NCP will pay for college and just needs the CP to pay CS...hmmmm...DO YOU THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL CP WOULD ALL OF A SUDDEN SAY NO AND CLAIM THE 18YR OLD IS NOW AN ADULT? hehe...OR WOULD THEY SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ANY INCREMENTAL COST BECAUSE THE NCP DIDN"T HAVE TO BUY A NEW HOUSE, blah, blah...hmmm... Can you get a CS order if the "child" is already 18, and there was not an order before? Doesn't the original order have to be in place before the "child" reaches the age of majority? The state of Oregon changes this adult child attending school CS law about as often as I change my underwear. Under prior law a CS order extending CS beyond age 18 ended when an adult child stopped going to college. Under current law a CS order can be reinstated if a child re-enrolls in college before they reach age 21. The problem with this law is the child has to ask to legally join the CS case in order to force the CP to pay college support too. Otherwise, only the NCP can be ordered to pay college support. The child has to hire an attorney to get the CP to be ordered to pay CS just like the NCP. And if they don't, any arrearage CS goes to the CP not the child as the law allows. So NCP's must stay current on CS payments for college age children or the CS money defaults to the CP. These CS laws providing CS for college students are so filled with exceptions and caveats it's difficult to keep up with them. And, if a "child" reenters college at, say, 20 years 3 months of age, how long would the NCP be expected to pay? A default 4 years? Or until the degree is obtained, no matter how long it takes? Or only until a certain age? Age 21. What drives me nuts is the adult child attending school support is to be paid directly to the child under the statute. But if the NCP has any arrears, regardless of the reason, the arrears go to the judgment creditor which is typically the mother. The child has to hire an attorney, join the case, and get a court to establish them as the judgment creditor, after they turn 18 but before they have a legal claim on post-17 CS. I had a three year battle with the state's CS administration over this issue. They were failing to pay the college support directly to my child and I had the statute and a court order stating she was to receive the money. CSE refused to get the money back they had paid to the wrong party, and contrary to the court's order, so I stopped paying in protest. By stopping paying they invoked their unpublished procedure allocating arrearages of post-17 CS to the judgment creditor. I raised so much heat they now openly publish their procedure as one of the formal administrative rules applicable to adult child attending school support. |
#13
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something I can't really understand...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "whatamess" wrote in message oups.com... On May 17, 11:10 pm, "Chris" wrote: "Gini" wrote in message news:T_33i.7514$4a1.5640@trndny07... "whatamess" wrote Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an additional child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage, etc...How do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's say 18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose their house since they can no longer afford the house payment for the additional child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can no longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company, the mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can manage??? Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last check comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay the equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that they all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc??? == My husband's ex did nearly all the above even though she had a decent salary of her own as a college instructor. Stepson came to live with us when he turned 18 as his mom kicked him out--said she couldn't afford him without CS. He finished school and college here. He was only in 10th grade at 18 because he had learning disabilities. He thrived here and went on to state university (here). He's now 27 but has been on his own for several years. I have no idea how his mother is doing financially now. The judge did tell her at the last hearing (years ago) that she was going to have to learn to live on less money. She had asked the court to increase the CS for the remaining child to the amt we were paying for the two ($1200.mo). Yep--She tried :-) This brings to mind some questions. A child turns 18 thus becoming a legal adult. For whatever reason, "child support" is ordered to continue. Can the court legally prohibit the child from residing with the father? And if the child lives with the father 100% of the time, does the father still have to pay money to the mother? - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable to me...hehe... OK, let's say actually that the same CP who kicks out the 18 yr. old sates they have to leave because they cannot afford them in their house...so 18 yr. old goes to NCP house... Then, NCP decides to take the CP to court to ask for child support because the child decides to go to school, therefore, the NCP will pay for college and just needs the CP to pay CS...hmmmm...DO YOU THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL CP WOULD ALL OF A SUDDEN SAY NO AND CLAIM THE 18YR OLD IS NOW AN ADULT? hehe...OR WOULD THEY SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ANY INCREMENTAL COST BECAUSE THE NCP DIDN"T HAVE TO BUY A NEW HOUSE, blah, blah...hmmm... Can you get a CS order if the "child" is already 18, and there was not an order before? Doesn't the original order have to be in place before the "child" reaches the age of majority? The state of Oregon changes this adult child attending school CS law about as often as I change my underwear. Under prior law a CS order extending CS beyond age 18 ended when an adult child stopped going to college. Under current law a CS order can be reinstated if a child re-enrolls in college before they reach age 21. The problem with this law is the child has to ask to legally join the CS case in order to force the CP to pay college support too. Otherwise, only the NCP can be ordered to pay college support. The child has to hire an attorney to get the CP to be ordered to pay CS just like the NCP. Imagine that; suing BOTH parents for money so the "child" can lead a lifestyle of laziness! Like they say, the apple falls CLOSE to the tree.......... And if they don't, any arrearage CS goes to the CP not the child as the law allows. So NCP's must stay current on CS payments for college age children or the CS money defaults to the CP. These CS laws providing CS for college students are so filled with exceptions and caveats it's difficult to keep up with them. |
#14
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something I can't really understand...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "whatamess" wrote in message oups.com... Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an additional child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage, etc...How do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's say 18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose their house since they can no longer afford the house payment for the additional child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can no longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company, the mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can manage??? Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last check comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay the equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that they all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc??? I'm just wondering since they all claim that the cost of child support is NEVER enough to cover the additional cost of raising a child...then you would think they lose their house, get their electricity shut down or kick out their kid and all of a sudden, their bills are reduced by 1K (or whatever the CS amount is) so they can continue their lives? CS is based on child rearing expenditure models within an intact family. One of the "big lies" associated with CS is CP's believe it costs more to raise those children in a single parent household so they complain the CS money is not enough. The problem is too many CP's overspend on their own personal lifestyles while the CS is pouring in and they blame the children turning 18 for their reversal of fortune. This, for me, is one of the saddest outcomes of huge CS awards and the failure of CP's to understand their financial realities. Indeed! Eventually, the cows gotta come back home. And when they do, the CP goes haywire. Par for the course when it comes to such greedy/lazy people. |
#15
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something I can't really understand...
"Chris" wrote in message ... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "whatamess" wrote in message oups.com... On May 17, 11:10 pm, "Chris" wrote: "Gini" wrote in message news:T_33i.7514$4a1.5640@trndny07... "whatamess" wrote Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an additional child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage, etc...How do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's say 18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose their house since they can no longer afford the house payment for the additional child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can no longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company, the mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can manage??? Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last check comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay the equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that they all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc??? == My husband's ex did nearly all the above even though she had a decent salary of her own as a college instructor. Stepson came to live with us when he turned 18 as his mom kicked him out--said she couldn't afford him without CS. He finished school and college here. He was only in 10th grade at 18 because he had learning disabilities. He thrived here and went on to state university (here). He's now 27 but has been on his own for several years. I have no idea how his mother is doing financially now. The judge did tell her at the last hearing (years ago) that she was going to have to learn to live on less money. She had asked the court to increase the CS for the remaining child to the amt we were paying for the two ($1200.mo). Yep--She tried :-) This brings to mind some questions. A child turns 18 thus becoming a legal adult. For whatever reason, "child support" is ordered to continue. Can the court legally prohibit the child from residing with the father? And if the child lives with the father 100% of the time, does the father still have to pay money to the mother? - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable to me...hehe... OK, let's say actually that the same CP who kicks out the 18 yr. old sates they have to leave because they cannot afford them in their house...so 18 yr. old goes to NCP house... Then, NCP decides to take the CP to court to ask for child support because the child decides to go to school, therefore, the NCP will pay for college and just needs the CP to pay CS...hmmmm...DO YOU THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL CP WOULD ALL OF A SUDDEN SAY NO AND CLAIM THE 18YR OLD IS NOW AN ADULT? hehe...OR WOULD THEY SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ANY INCREMENTAL COST BECAUSE THE NCP DIDN"T HAVE TO BUY A NEW HOUSE, blah, blah...hmmm... Can you get a CS order if the "child" is already 18, and there was not an order before? Doesn't the original order have to be in place before the "child" reaches the age of majority? The state of Oregon changes this adult child attending school CS law about as often as I change my underwear. Under prior law a CS order extending CS beyond age 18 ended when an adult child stopped going to college. Under current law a CS order can be reinstated if a child re-enrolls in college before they reach age 21. The problem with this law is the child has to ask to legally join the CS case in order to force the CP to pay college support too. Otherwise, only the NCP can be ordered to pay college support. The child has to hire an attorney to get the CP to be ordered to pay CS just like the NCP. Imagine that; suing BOTH parents for money so the "child" can lead a lifestyle of laziness! Like they say, the apple falls CLOSE to the tree.......... Truth is my daughter understood her college financing options, the FAFSA process, the CS laws for adult children attending school, used me as her financial and tax consultant, and helped me explain all of the issues to her mother. That is what I would consider the apple falling close to the tree. My comment was about the child attending school statute saying one thing but being implemented in a different way. I filed grievance after grievance. The CS Constituent Liaison told me he had 12-13 cases similar to mine where fathers were complaining about money that was supposed to be going to the student to pay for their education, ended up going to the mother to pay for her household expenses. It was at that point I realized the language in a divorce decree, and any modifications, is never read by CS administrators. They were basing everything they did off of the money judgment prepared by the Deputy DA AFTER the court approved the modification order. Case law in my state says CS payable to a child attending school can only be ordered against the NCP. But the student can "join" the case and get an order for CS from both parents. The discrepancy I pushed was under state and federal tax law when a person reaches the age of 18 they are no longer a minor, so divorce decree language about CP's and NCP's of minor children is no longer valid. |
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