Retired Father

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
didn't
make
hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
point
where
they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?

Hello Tiffany,
The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
true.
At
age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
support
themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but
they
can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until
18,
but
they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.

In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up
to
age
115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant
on
their income tax.

So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no
longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
financial
aid applications.

Assuming she has ZERO income. All she would have to do is file a zero
income tax report and claim herself as a dependent. Then it would be
illegal for either of her parents to claim her, since she is claiming
herself. If she does not have zero income, then she would just file any
tax
report just the same and still claim herself as a dependent. Same
situation, same results. It would not matter if she is living at home
with
both parents, one parent, or with neither. There are plenty of students
living at home with their parents and they claim themselves as their own
dependents. Financial Aid office would not have anything to say about it
either way.

I filed my first income tax report, claiming myself as a dependent, when I
was 17.

There are major differences between income tax dependency and
dependent/independent definitions for college loans and grants. The
assumption that a student claiming income tax dependency creates financial
aid independence is incorrect for U.S. citizens. If you are talking about
Canadian laws please make that clear.

: "Jackie" wrote in message
: . ca...
: So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for
: some
: advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I see
: you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway.

It appears that YOU are the deadbeat.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
didn't
make
hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
point
where
they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?

Hello Tiffany,
The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
true.
At
age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
support
themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters,
but
they
can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until
18,
but
they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.

In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up
to
age
115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant
on
their income tax.

So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can
no
longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
financial
aid applications.

Assuming she has ZERO income. All she would have to do is file a zero
income tax report and claim herself as a dependent. Then it would be
illegal for either of her parents to claim her, since she is claiming
herself. If she does not have zero income, then she would just file any
tax
report just the same and still claim herself as a dependent. Same
situation, same results. It would not matter if she is living at home
with
both parents, one parent, or with neither. There are plenty of students
living at home with their parents and they claim themselves as their own
dependents. Financial Aid office would not have anything to say about
it
either way.

I filed my first income tax report, claiming myself as a dependent, when
I
was 17.

There are major differences between income tax dependency and
dependent/independent definitions for college loans and grants. The
assumption that a student claiming income tax dependency creates financial
aid independence is incorrect for U.S. citizens. If you are talking about
Canadian laws please make that clear.

Just another example of congress disregarding the constitution

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
didn't
make
hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
point
where
they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?

Hello Tiffany,
The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
true.
At
age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
support
themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but
they
can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until
18,
but
they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.

In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up
to
age
115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant
on
their income tax.

So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no
longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
financial
aid applications.

Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the U.S.
a
student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans
and
grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and cut
it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:

1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school year.
2. Got married.
3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
4. Have dependents.
5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.

That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why they
never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information. A
person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was
discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to declare
me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the right
to enter into contracts.


Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and
must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not
help
them.

As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would be
her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial aid.
Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that he
does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the situation.


These rules are why I am so adamant against CS for children attending
school. The CS counts towards the parent/child combined incomes driving
up
the out-of-pocket cost for college. The primary parent can keep the CS
for
their own use and not use the CS for it's intended use. The child is
forced
to provide the expected family contribution out of their own student loans
and part-time work pay. The primary parent can refuse to take out a
parent
loan forcing the student to borrow even more money. The students actually
are put at a disadvantage when there is CS for a child attending school
because the CS.

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
didn't
make
hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
point
where
they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?

Hello Tiffany,
The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
true.
At
age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
support
themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters,
but
they
can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until
18,
but
they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.

In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up
to
age
115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant
on
their income tax.

So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can
no
longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
financial
aid applications.

Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the
U.S.
a
student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans
and
grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and
cut
it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:

1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school
year.
2. Got married.
3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
4. Have dependents.
5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.

That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why
they
never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information.
A
person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was
discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to declare
me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the
right
to enter into contracts.

A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot
overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and grants.
Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college
funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent.



Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and
must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not
help
them.

As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would be
her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial
aid.
Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that he
does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the
situation.

I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with
financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed.
She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for free
money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing
college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments
about the process without knowing the details themselves.

CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS
received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite all
the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
didn't
make
hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
point
where
they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?

Hello Tiffany,
The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
true.
At
age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
support
themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters,
but
they
can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave
until
18,
but
they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.

In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way
up
to
age
115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a
dependant
on
their income tax.

So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they
can
no
longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
financial
aid applications.

Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the
U.S.
a
student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for
loans
and
grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and
cut
it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:

1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school
year.
2. Got married.
3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
4. Have dependents.
5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.

That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why
they
never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information.
A
person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was
discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to
declare
me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the
right
to enter into contracts.

A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot
overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and grants.
Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college
funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent.



Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent
and
must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does
not
help
them.

As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would
be
her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial
aid.
Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that
he
does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the
situation.

I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with
financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed.
She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for free
money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing
college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments
about the process without knowing the details themselves.

CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS
received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite all
the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does.

So, Bob, if Jackie were living in Oregon, would a court award her the $$,
since there was never a CS order before she turned 18? The divorce is
occuring when she is 21--wouldn't that make a difference?

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
didn't
make
hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is
a
point
where
they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?

Hello Tiffany,
The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it
is
true.
At
age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
support
themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal
matters,
but
they
can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave
until
18,
but
they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.

In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the
way
up
to
age
115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a
dependant
on
their income tax.

So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they
can
no
longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
financial
aid applications.

Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the
U.S.
a
student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for
loans
and
grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming
and
cut
it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:

1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school
year.
2. Got married.
3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
4. Have dependents.
5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.

That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why
they
never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the
information.
A
person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there
was
discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to
declare
me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the
right
to enter into contracts.

A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot
overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and
grants.
Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college
funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent.



Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent
and
must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does
not
help
them.

As the primary parent however, according to her description, that
would
be
her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from
financial
aid.
Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean
that
he
does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the
situation.

I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with
financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed.
She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for
free
money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing
college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments
about the process without knowing the details themselves.

CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS
received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite
all
the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does.

So, Bob, if Jackie were living in Oregon, would a court award her the $$,
since there was never a CS order before she turned 18?

My reading of the Thomas case, which is the appeals court case I cited,
would be no. In Thomas the court said, "ORS 107.108 does not create a new
parental obligation, but only empowers courts to extend a noncustodial
parent's preexisting duty to pay support beyond a child's eighteenth
birthday, if the child is attending school."

Inerestingly, also in the Thomas case, the appeals court ruled when there is
a break is CS accruals after a child reaches 18 because they do not attend
school, the statute cannot be used to restart a prior CS order that lapsed
due to non-attendance.

The divorce is
occuring when she is 21--wouldn't that make a difference?

Yes. The Oregon law for support of a child attending school applies for
18-20 year old students only with support accruals ceasing when the child
reaches 21.

Who me? I didn't write that. Jackie wrote that bit.

--
Randy

Please don't bottom-post...
It's a bitch to scroll down.

wrote in message
...
: "Jackie" wrote in message
: . ca...
: So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for
: some
: advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I
see
: you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway.

It appears that YOU are the deadbeat.

Keep in mind that $90 Canadian is about $64 American.

Phil #3

"Dave" dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...

"Jackie" wrote in message
. ca...
Let me tell you guys a few things.

1. My father's basically got it made... he makes over $90K/year, and
he's
the one who wants the divorce from my mother.

90k a year is peanuts if you are living in cities like NYC and many other
metro areas where you are lucky to find a rental for under 2k a month.
When you can find something under 2k the paradox is you cannot make over
40k
to get the lower rent. Perhaps he also has other expenses and needs to
put
away for retirement which leaves him little to pay for your college? The
point is you still have not made your case where as an adult your 67 year
old father should be paying you $800 a month,

2. He's told me on multiple occasions that he is going to make it as
difficult as possible for me to NOT be able to go to school (for one,
because of his income, I can't get a student loan, and he's not willing
to
pay for my education).

Hmmm. Why is that? What are you not telling us?

3. He's verbally abusive and tells me that he wishes he never had me and
that I am stupid, just like my mother, and how, if we weren't in Canada,
he
would have given me away when I was born.


Hmmm, did this really happen? Was this out of anger during an arguement?
What did you say to him first?

So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for
some
advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I
see
you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway.


In other words you cannot accept the truth about yourself and rather live
the illusion that the words of advice here are from deadbeat dads to make
you feel better.


"Dave" dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...
Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls? You really
expect
a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month. Living with your
parents
is
one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not
matter
how
old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
courts)

Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father. I
would
not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime
which
at
that age could be right around the corner. That maybe the only way to
teach
you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.

"Jackie" wrote in message
. ca...
Hello,

I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in
the
middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
the
divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire)
would
be
still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student
(based
on
a
60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to
keep
on
working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
of
his
income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
long
as
I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
already
over 18)?!

Thanks in advance,

Jackie

"Tracy" wrote in message
news:75GXa.68523$YN5.53503@sccrnsc01...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message
s.com...
Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your
mother
didn't
make
hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but
there
is
a
point
where
they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up
there?

Hello Tiffany,
The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but
it
is
true.
At
age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home
and
support
themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal
matters,
but
they
can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them
leave
until
18,
but
they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.

In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all
the
way
up
to
age
115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a
dependant
on
their income tax.

So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so
they
can
no
longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in
her
financial
aid applications.

Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in
the
U.S.
a
student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify
for
loans
and
grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy
coming
and
cut
it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:

1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that
school
year.
2. Got married.
3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
4. Have dependents.
5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.

That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be
why
they
never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the
information.
A
person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16
there
was
discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to
declare
me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including
the
right
to enter into contracts.

A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge
cannot
overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and
grants.
Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the
college
funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent.



Until one of those events occurs the student is considered
dependent
and
must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent
does
not
help
them.

As the primary parent however, according to her description, that
would
be
her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from
financial
aid.
Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean
that
he
does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the
situation.

I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with
financing her college education after her parent's divorce is
completed.
She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for
free
money. Young people who try to understand their options for
financing
college education are a lot smarter than those who make value
judgments
about the process without knowing the details themselves.

CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S.
CS
received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and
despite
all
the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does.

So, Bob, if Jackie were living in Oregon, would a court award her the
$$,
since there was never a CS order before she turned 18?

My reading of the Thomas case, which is the appeals court case I cited,
would be no. In Thomas the court said, "ORS 107.108 does not create a
new
parental obligation, but only empowers courts to extend a noncustodial
parent's preexisting duty to pay support beyond a child's eighteenth
birthday, if the child is attending school."


What about CP's? What if a child, from a divorce, who just finished high
school leaves home and wishes to pursue child support against the CP?
What
if the child support award mentioned *nothing* about college? How about a
CP who was once the NCP of this child, and the child support case against
the NCP (who is now the CP) is closed?

Since ORS 107.108 is written the way it is, and the appeals court has ruled
the way they have, the legal answer is the CP has no CS obligation for a
child after age 17 unless the child hires an attorney and "joins" the
original case and then gets an order from the court requiring both the NCP
and the CP to pay adult attending school CS.

This is why I got so ****ed at the CS system after my daughter reached age
18. My CS obligation was based on the income shares model considering both
parent's incomes, but only the NCP parent was required to pay the CS money
to the child direct as specified in the law. The CP under the appellate
decision in Thomas has no obligation to support a post-17 child. The
appeals court made it very clear in Thomas only the NCP can be ordered to
support the child's advanced education pursuits.