How much privacy do you give them?

dejablues wrote:
The kids have their own computer, with no internet access. If they want
internet, they have to use the one in the kitchen or our bedroom.

My husband is a network admin guy and I use computers in my business
so we've got various generations of computers lying around: I can think
of six functional ones at the moment. Even our four year old has a
computer that's set up for him and he loves to visit Caillou on
PBS.org. Because of my business we also have a wireless LAN attached to
the DSL. It's a blessing if you want to check the weather, but a curse if
you want to limit internet access.

My oldest
son (14) uses AIM occasionally, but I know all the ppl on his buddy list
(school friends, family). I want to know what they're doing on the net, I
would not allow password protection on anything.

In my convrsations with my daughter last night she told me who is on her
AIM buddy list and it was all the same answers I expected... until she
said, "friends of friends". Oops. She's just so confident that these are
real people that someone she knows knows that she can't even imagine that
she's at risk. I'm left having to find these people and call their
mothers (which I will do) to make sure they're really local kids.

There are ways to crack passwords , ya know. :-)

And my daughter knows more about them than I do. I noticed her password
is many characters long with numbers interspersed. I wasn't able to guess
it yesterday.

I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed that no one took the position
that the adolescent has a right to privacy. I feel cruel not giving it to
her. When I picked her up after school yesterday I started out by saying,
"I want to talk about privacy." She said, "Good, when are you going to
give me some?" Oops, that wasn't the way I wanted that direction to go.

I couldn't even promise her that I'd never read her email or look at her
chat conversations, but I did promise her that snooping wouldn't be my
FIRST stop with no warning, i.e., I'd only do it if I were particularly
concerned about something and I would bring up that concern with her
first.

We went on to talk about my big fears: the potential to cause serious
emotional damage of sex and my quest to protect her from that, and the
potential to waste lives from drugs and my quest to protect her from
that. As she tells me less and less (and she tells me hardly anything
now) I feel like I need access to her life if she seems to be faltering -
which she is NOT doing now. But sometime in the next six years... could
be.

-- Wendy

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 00:13:56 -0600, toto wrote:
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:24:59 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
wrote:

: I feel as you do about the need to monitor kids when they're online,
: but I don't know how I could do that if our computer weren't right out
: here in public.

That one's easy: It's called PC Anywhere.

Does that work in linux? hehe.


No, but VNC does - on Windows, Linux, and several other platforms, and
it's free, to boot. ;-)

On 5 Nov 2003 19:39:32 -0400, Wendy wrote:
My daughter is nearly 13 and has her own laptop with DSL access to the
internet and her own email account and website on NeoPets.

Today I tried to use her computer to do something with the iPod that I
share with her and I wasn't able to log in. She has a password at
login. She also has passwords for her mail account and her AOL Instant
Message program. I cannot see her buddy list or who is emailing her.

I'm unhappy with this. I don't intend to read her email or chat
conversations but I want to have the OPTION of monitoring them. My
feeling is that she was only allowed to go on AIM because we required a
level of oversight (like no computer behind closed doors.) The reality is
that she's up in my husband's den and can hear me coming from a mile away
and everytime I walk past she's on NeoPets. I just don't know what she's
doing online for hours at a time!

My husband, on the other hand, says she is entitled to her privacy: that
we ought not to read her email or monitor her conversations. I don't
INTEND to do that, but want the option if I feel like there is a problem.
What do you think - what's reasonable?

Ours aren't nearly that age, but they have a PC, and we have rules
that are going to be around for a long time. ;-)

For Instant Messaging clients - they are to be configured so that they
can IM ONLY with people on their buddy lists. And the buddy lists need to
be approved by mom and dad. Also, logging is mandatory at all times.

No passwords that mom and dad don't know. Each kid can have their
own passwords, to allow them to privacy from each other, but that's it.

The PC's are all in my home office. They stay in plain view. If the
child needs to go someplace quiet to work, they can, but we reserve the
right for an occasional peek over the shoulder.

It all boils down to, yes, the child is entitled to her privacy.
But our responsibilities as parents don't end when the kids turn 13.
If we see a need to look at their private lives - a REAL need, not
just curiousity - then we will. If I want to know what my
daughter and her friends are talking about - that's not an
acceptable excuse to look. If I have reason to believe that my 13
year old daughter is 'dating' a 21 year old, I'll be checking
the PC faster than greased lightning.

Hi,
I can empathize with your position.

I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed that no one took the position
that the adolescent has a right to privacy. I feel cruel not giving it to
her. When I picked her up after school yesterday I started out by saying,
"I want to talk about privacy." She said, "Good, when are you going to
give me some?" Oops, that wasn't the way I wanted that direction to go.

There are a lot of risks there is an Internet Safe Surfing contract at
http://www.911paging.com/internetsaf...etcontract.htm
along with a do's and don'ts list that might help with your discussions at
http://www.911paging.com/internetsafety/dosanddonts.htm

There is also an article at (I can't put my hands on other good ones I've read
recently.
http://www.monitoring-software.net/t...d-children.htm

Goodluck
June

"ColoradoSkiBum" wrote in message ...
: I feel as you do about the need to monitor kids when they're online,
: but I don't know how I could do that if our computer weren't right out
: here in public.

That one's easy: It's called PC Anywhere.

Soo...does one tell an obviously technically savvy 13 year old that
PCAnywhere has been loaded and configured? Or does one let the child
think that the little green icon is simply a part of the OS? When
you're a host and a remote comes in...you feel it, even if the mouse
and keyboard aren't in the remote's control.

I wouldn't like spying on my 13 year old because I *was* spied upon as
a 13 year old. But on the other hand, I have no problems laying down
ground rules in my home. Rules that I expect to be followed, even if I
have to look over the child's shoulder. So while PCAnywhere might be a
good tool, I'd tell my child I was using it.

I had a long post written about the Evil Internet and managing your
child's surfing and chatting time. But like a good IT guy, I lost it.
;-)

The bottom line is this: I'm hip deep in technology every day. I
manage the stuff. I configure the stuff. I hand-hold *adults* through
the perils of viruses and chatting and emails with pornographic,
erm...attachments.

So, at home?

At home I'm the IT Mommy From Hell. Though I don't yet have a 13 year
old, I would never in a bazillion years allow my young teen their own
computer in a room away from the "public" spaces. (Nor do my children
have their own televisions.) And if and when any of my children say
they "need" a computer of their own, it won't have internet access.

And if and when they "need" internet access, it'll be behind a
firewall, with filters and virus software set up and all the bells and
whistles. And I'll lay out the ground rules about time spent on the
computer and what they can use the computers for. Just like at work.

I could type a long post about my technology philosophies. Suffice it
to say that the very thing that puts bread on my table is something
that I DO NOT consider vital to everyday life. Kids don't *need* to be
communicating via chat and email. Period. End.

Ah....and I can hear my own children's future objections now. Oh well.
Unfortunately for them, mommy's heard it all before from people who
are older and more powerful and it didn't wash then. I have no problem
asking one of my company officers to change his password so that I can
get into his account, I'd have *less* of a problem asking my 13 year
old for her password!

Internet access is a priviledge, not a right. This century's Great
Wasteland should be used as a means, not the end. Okay...I should stop
on the philosophy now.

Parenting computer-intelligent children is part system administrator
these days. I'd say if parents are concerned about what their children
are doing on line, then they have every right to "take back" the
technology in their home and set up the ground rules.

Bev - M0m h4x0R

In article , Marion Baumgarten
says...



My daughter has hd her won par top since about that age (she paid for
half of it). She does not have internet acess on it, however- she does
use it for school a lot for papers, etc.

Waht you hve jproblems with mxing lettes too? Yo'j're a wmoan after my won
heart :-)

To keep up wiht my psing style, though, you also hve to words out.

Cheers,
Banty

Hi -

My kids are much younger than 13, but I work with a lot of middle school
teachers, so have some (second hand) experience.

What many (not all!) parents say works best is a contract. Depending
upon your child, the contract doesn't have to be in writing. But you do
need to discuss it.

The conversation goes something like:

You're getting older, taking on new rights and responsibilities. BUt
getting older isn't enough; rights are earned, not given. And they can
be taken away if we think they're harmful to you. So, let's talk about
some rights you have that concern us, and then let's talk about the
responsibilities that go with those rights.

-- A right to use the computer, to AIM and email.
Goes with the responsibility to make sure your parents know all the
people you communicate with that way, all must be people you also know
in person. We'll let you know when and under what circumstances you can
start communicating with people you haven't met yet. (Your child may
want to contact an expert for research for a project at some point, for
example, or may develop an interest in, say, a rare medical condition
and wish to "meet" people who have it or know a lot about it. SO you
okay that kind of communication on a case by case basis.)

You should also talk about privacy as something that is earned. Your
child earned the right to bathe independently, for example, some years
ago when she demonstrated that she could use the bath/shower safely and
clean herself properly. But before that time, you would stay with her
in the bathroom to ensure her safety. The internet is another place
where you want to SEE that she uses it in a safe manner, therefore she
may not use passwords to keep her parents out, and then you mutually
agree on other rules (like buddy lists). Tell her you'll BOTH discuss
with her friends and their parents what kinds of rules THEY have in
place so that you can both be sure the rules YOU set up are reasonable.

It's a good idea to get the concept of this kind of conversation in
place as soon as possible, since the internet isn't the only area where
you'll need to set and adjust rules as she gets older. YOu'll also
(soon!) have to discuss where in the house she gets to play with friends
who are boys (who will eventually become boyfriends), what the
limitations are as she learns to drive and earns her license, and so
forth.

You may have a system like this in place already. Be sure to get your
daughter's buy-in as much as possible, because she's getting to an age
where you CAN'T control what she does, so you need ways to make sure she
WANTS to behave in an acceptable manner, and she WANTS you to stay on
top of her activities.

Good luck,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

Hello,
I am new to not only this newsgroup, but to newsgroups in general. So
please bare with me while I get used to reading and posting.
I am a re-married father of 3. My oldest, (previous marriage) is 13. My
others are 3 and 5. My oldest is at her mother's house every other
weekend, and has her own computer and phone in her isolated (in the
attic) room. I have no controls over what is done there. However, I can
read all her e-mails anyway. That was done with her knowledge, I get her
passwords. She knows that online messages are not private anyway, since
anyone with enough time and energy can read any e-mail anywhere in the
world.
At home she has a computer that is in the same home office as my
wife's and my computers. That computer is run with Windows XP. Her
profile is set up as a teenager, and the browser is as well. In order
for her to create a password for her profile, she needs my password. She
will never get it. She and I have an understanding, until she is out of
college and living on her own, I have the right, and the need as a
concerned father, to be able to inspect her school locker, and her rooms
belongings. This includes her emails and I have the veto of whom she can
have on her *buddy list*.
As far as privacy goes, she has a small amout of privacy, she has her
diary and her freinds. I get the final vote on her activities and
outings as well. While this may seem a little over the top to some, we
have agreed that anything she feels she has to hide from me, is
something she probably shouldn't be doing anyway. While we may but heads
once in awhile, when there are no secrets, there is nothing that we
can't talk about. ( Except those things she doesn't want to talk about.)


(just my .02 cents worth)

Wendy wrote in message ...
Today I tried to use her computer to do something with the iPod that I
share with her and I wasn't able to log in. She has a password at
login. She also has passwords for her mail account and her AOL Instant
Message program. I cannot see her buddy list or who is emailing her.

I'm unhappy with this. I don't intend to read her email or chat
conversations but I want to have the OPTION of monitoring them. My
feeling is that she was only allowed to go on AIM because we required a
level of oversight (like no computer behind closed doors.) The reality is
that she's up in my husband's den and can hear me coming from a mile away
and everytime I walk past she's on NeoPets. I just don't know what she's
doing online for hours at a time!


A timely question, for we're also dealing with this. It's one of the
reasons I didn't buy my kid a laptop, but gave him a desktop, which
needs to be used where I say it must be used, in a public space that I
can monitor. Even so, I've caught him downloading porn twice (it's a
guy thing!) and thus he's completely lost his computer privileges for
the rest of the school year. He may only use the computer for homework
when I'm sitting right next to him.

But when he was using the computer, he had his own account (we have
XP) and he password protected it with a screen saver. I had to go in
as root and get rid of it. The rule in our house has always been that
I won't read your email or your IMs, but I WILL check history and I
WILL check your buddy list, and if I see people I don't know, we'll go
thru the list together and weed them out.

While I believe kids should have privacy on the computer, if a child
like my son has proven over and over again that he can't be trusted,
then he loses the privilege of using the machine without Nurse Rachet
over his shoulder. He made the choice, not me.

My daughter has just started the combo IMing and talking on the phone
at the same time. I have no clue of how she does this, but I know it's
common amongst teens. I don't have an issue with her computer use at
all, but she will let her brother onto her account for unfettered
access, and that's a problem, too. So I'm being very restrictive right
now about our computers. In fact, I've just disconnected one of the
computers from the net, which they can use for games and homework, but
not for the 'net. For our family, this is a viable solution.

Looking forward to what others have to say on this topic.

Marjorie

My husband, on the other hand, says she is entitled to her privacy: that
we ought not to read her email or monitor her conversations. I don't
INTEND to do that, but want the option if I feel like there is a problem.
What do you think - what's reasonable?

Wendy

If I had a thirteen year old, I would not allow him/her to have her own
laptop unless I had full access to it and all applications, *especially*
internet applications.

But then again, I don't think I'd allow *my* thirteen year old to have
their own computer in the first place. JMO.
--
JennP.

mom to Matthew 10/11/00
remove "no........spam" to reply



I'm with you. One computer for everyone in a place in the house where I can
see what he/she is doing.

Heck my kids won't even have TVs in their rooms, let alone computers.

--
Sophie -
#4 due July 18, 2004