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I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 9th 03, 01:22 AM
Irish Marie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)

Hi to you all
I had a sick computer (well 2 actually) and between Jean, Herself and her dh
we got them fixed and now I'm backed. I missed ngs!
Anyway Liam is now 14weeks as of tomorrow.
I am starting back at work next Tuesday week (the 18th)
Liam is thriving.
But there are a couple of things I am feeling low about now.
I introduced a couple of bottles of formula (he'd usually take 4x4oz bottles
a day) during the hours that I will be at work and am still nursing him in
the mornings and evenings. (When I return to work I will be gone from him
from 9am to 6pm....but won't be home and able to sit down and nurse until
probably 7pm)
I had started getting a stash in the freezer but was using them up. Then I
also got lazy at pumping........I see it as a chore.
Then Liam was rejecting bottles so we decided to give him regular bottles to
get him used to them before I return to work. I used up the EBM stash and
wasn't renewing it because I was too tired keeping up with my older 2
children and feeding him the bottles that I didn't have time to pump as
well......I do sometimes fit in late night and the occasional morning pump.
When I return to work I will be getting 3x20minute breaks to pump, so
hopefully by then I can break the formula cycle and just feed him the EBM as
long as I get enough out. But has anyone else managed to feed their baby
ebm while they work without depending on a freezer stash??
I'm feeling sad in myself that I was not a better and more committed mum, to
make myself make time to pump and also get him used to bottles without
resorting to formula.
Am I ruining all the immunities by feeding him formula?
Luckily my supply is staying strong so far, apart from a bit of a dip in the
early evening, but it has always been like that.......he is like a barnacle
most evenings since day one.
I am also finding it *really* hard to hold off spoon feeding him, please
don't slate me, Caoimhe and Ciarán my FF babies were both being spoon fed at
this age, and I am trying really hard to ignore the signs that are trotted
out by weaning leaflets around here. He is waking more at night(he had been
sleeping through), he lights up when he smells or sees what we are eating,
and everything is going to his mouth, he has great head support and can sit
upright in his pushchair, he has lost the tongue thrust(we know this because
we had to give him medicine).
My educated head is telling me that he is just exploring with his mouth
right now and not necessarily looking for food. I know that if I was a less
busy mummy I could nurse him more often him through the day, but I just find
it hard to find the time.
I suppose you could say I am token breastfeeding at this stage.
I don't know what to do, I'm just hoping that going back to work clarifies
the ebm v formula thing for me, so that I know how much I can produce each
day and I just hope time flies until I can spoon feed ( I really can't see
myself making it to 6 months)
Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?
I just hate the fact that he is not getting all his nourishment from me but
I can't be as great a mum as most of you here are, I can't dedicate myself
to breastfeeding exclusively.
Sorry for the vent

--
Marie
Mum of 3
DD born 03/98, DS1 born 11/99 DS2 born 08/03



  #2  
Old November 9th 03, 05:57 AM
Phoebe & Allyson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)

Irish Marie wrote:

I had started getting a stash in the freezer but was using them up. Then I
also got lazy at pumping........I see it as a chore.



It is a chore, especially when you're pumping instead of
enjoying your kids.


But has anyone else managed to feed their baby
ebm while they work without depending on a freezer stash??



I think it's doable, as long as you can squeeze in a morning
/ evening / weekend pump to make up any shortfall. And
really, the whole point of having a freezer stash is to feed
it to the baby. So don't beat yourself up about having fed
it to the baby.


Am I ruining all the immunities by feeding him formula?



Nope. If you want to cut back on the formula, you might try
cutting the formula back to one bottle a day, and see if
he's still willing to take bottles. He should be able to go
back to multiple bottles when you got back to work.


He is waking more at night(he had been
sleeping through),



I've been attributing that to a combination of teething and
learning new skills. If we have a couple of particularly
bad nights, Caterpillar usually has mastered a new skill at
the end. And a dose of Tylenol before bed has done wonders
on the days she's acting more pained than skillful, but Liam
is on the young side to be teething.

he lights up when he smells or sees what we are eating,
and everything is going to his mouth, he has great head support and can sit
upright in his pushchair, he has lost the tongue thrust(we know this because
we had to give him medicine).



Wow! Caterpillar only lost her tongue thrust within the
last month (I want to say in the last 2-3 weeks), and she's
23 weeks old.


Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?



Caterpillar was 8 pounds 4 ounces (3.75 kg) when she was
born, and has consistently been 80th percentile for weight,
and hasn't been unsatisfied with no solids.


I can't be as great a mum as most of you here are



Sure you are. If you were a bad mom, you wouldn't be
worrying about how to balance your needs and all 3 of your
kids' needs and going back to work and still bf as much as
possible.

Phoebe
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

  #3  
Old November 9th 03, 07:03 AM
Leslie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)

Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?

No. My youngest (13 lbs. 5 oz. at birth) was exclusively bf and showed little
interest in solids until he was about 18 months old. Your milk is plenty at
this point!

Leslie
  #4  
Old November 9th 03, 09:58 AM
KC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)

{{{{Marie}}}}

You're not alone. I had to give formula early on because of low
diaper counts. Plus I started solids right at 4 months. My baby was
showing all the signs too. She is 5.5 months now, and it hasn't
hurt her. She has always been months ahead at most things, including
readiness for eating. She actually just cruised for the first time
tonight, and has been standing at a short table since she was 3.5
months old and sitting up since probably 3 months too. If others want
to go to 6 months even when their babies are showing readiness to eat,
that is their business, but not me.

You won't mess up immunities by giving some formula, as long as you
keep giving breast milk the baby will get the immunities. I also
think breast milk is the best brain food. I have nothing but my own
anecdotal evidence to back that up, but even if you do have to give
formula remember that giving as much breast milk as you can is still
very important. It is not all or nothing.

KC -
buy or rent Whittlestone Breast Expressers at:
http://www.alittlestore.com




"Irish Marie" wrote in message ...
Hi to you all
I had a sick computer (well 2 actually) and between Jean, Herself and her dh
we got them fixed and now I'm backed. I missed ngs!
Anyway Liam is now 14weeks as of tomorrow.
I am starting back at work next Tuesday week (the 18th)
Liam is thriving.
But there are a couple of things I am feeling low about now.
I introduced a couple of bottles of formula (he'd usually take 4x4oz bottles
a day) during the hours that I will be at work and am still nursing him in
the mornings and evenings. (When I return to work I will be gone from him
from 9am to 6pm....but won't be home and able to sit down and nurse until
probably 7pm)
I had started getting a stash in the freezer but was using them up. Then I
also got lazy at pumping........I see it as a chore.
Then Liam was rejecting bottles so we decided to give him regular bottles to
get him used to them before I return to work. I used up the EBM stash and
wasn't renewing it because I was too tired keeping up with my older 2
children and feeding him the bottles that I didn't have time to pump as
well......I do sometimes fit in late night and the occasional morning pump.
When I return to work I will be getting 3x20minute breaks to pump, so
hopefully by then I can break the formula cycle and just feed him the EBM as
long as I get enough out. But has anyone else managed to feed their baby
ebm while they work without depending on a freezer stash??
I'm feeling sad in myself that I was not a better and more committed mum, to
make myself make time to pump and also get him used to bottles without
resorting to formula.
Am I ruining all the immunities by feeding him formula?
Luckily my supply is staying strong so far, apart from a bit of a dip in the
early evening, but it has always been like that.......he is like a barnacle
most evenings since day one.
I am also finding it *really* hard to hold off spoon feeding him, please
don't slate me, Caoimhe and Ciarán my FF babies were both being spoon fed at
this age, and I am trying really hard to ignore the signs that are trotted
out by weaning leaflets around here. He is waking more at night(he had been
sleeping through), he lights up when he smells or sees what we are eating,
and everything is going to his mouth, he has great head support and can sit
upright in his pushchair, he has lost the tongue thrust(we know this because
we had to give him medicine).
My educated head is telling me that he is just exploring with his mouth
right now and not necessarily looking for food. I know that if I was a less
busy mummy I could nurse him more often him through the day, but I just find
it hard to find the time.
I suppose you could say I am token breastfeeding at this stage.
I don't know what to do, I'm just hoping that going back to work clarifies
the ebm v formula thing for me, so that I know how much I can produce each
day and I just hope time flies until I can spoon feed ( I really can't see
myself making it to 6 months)
Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?
I just hate the fact that he is not getting all his nourishment from me but
I can't be as great a mum as most of you here are, I can't dedicate myself
to breastfeeding exclusively.
Sorry for the vent

  #5  
Old November 9th 03, 10:52 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)


"KC" wrote in message
om...
{{{{Marie}}}}

You're not alone. I had to give formula early on because of low
diaper counts. Plus I started solids right at 4 months. My baby was
showing all the signs too.


I don't know exact dates but it looks as though the OPs baby is only 3
months old?

She is 5.5 months now, and it hasn't
hurt her. She has always been months ahead at most things, including
readiness for eating. She actually just cruised for the first time
tonight, and has been standing at a short table since she was 3.5
months old and sitting up since probably 3 months too. If others want
to go to 6 months even when their babies are showing readiness to eat,
that is their business, but not me.

You won't mess up immunities by giving some formula, as long as you
keep giving breast milk the baby will get the immunities.


Sorry to correct you, but :-) While a child is exclusively BF one of the
things that happens is that their gut is lined so that no other substances
can get through the gut wall, it's a delicate balance in there. Adding in
any foods or other substances breaks that barrier forever. This doesn't mean
a problem, obviously they have to have food at some point, but it will
change the balance in their gut forever. This is why giving 'just one bottle
of formula' is a big decision not to be taken lightly because you cannot
return to that level of balance in the gut.

So the baby will still get immune qualities from the milk as long as they
are BF, but things will change for the baby once either formula or food is
introduced.

Of course this is a moot point for this OP as she's only considering formula
with food, but I wanted to explain.

I also
think breast milk is the best brain food. I have nothing but my own
anecdotal evidence to back that up, but even if you do have to give
formula remember that giving as much breast milk as you can is still
very important. It is not all or nothing.


Right on. And the BF is the best brain food thing has been proven, just not
by KC!

Nikki


KC -
buy or rent Whittlestone Breast Expressers at:
http://www.alittlestore.com




"Irish Marie" wrote in message

...
Hi to you all
I had a sick computer (well 2 actually) and between Jean, Herself and

her dh
we got them fixed and now I'm backed. I missed ngs!
Anyway Liam is now 14weeks as of tomorrow.
I am starting back at work next Tuesday week (the 18th)
Liam is thriving.
But there are a couple of things I am feeling low about now.
I introduced a couple of bottles of formula (he'd usually take 4x4oz

bottles
a day) during the hours that I will be at work and am still nursing him

in
the mornings and evenings. (When I return to work I will be gone from

him
from 9am to 6pm....but won't be home and able to sit down and nurse

until
probably 7pm)
I had started getting a stash in the freezer but was using them up.

Then I
also got lazy at pumping........I see it as a chore.
Then Liam was rejecting bottles so we decided to give him regular

bottles to
get him used to them before I return to work. I used up the EBM stash

and
wasn't renewing it because I was too tired keeping up with my older 2
children and feeding him the bottles that I didn't have time to pump as
well......I do sometimes fit in late night and the occasional morning

pump.
When I return to work I will be getting 3x20minute breaks to pump, so
hopefully by then I can break the formula cycle and just feed him the

EBM as
long as I get enough out. But has anyone else managed to feed their

baby
ebm while they work without depending on a freezer stash??
I'm feeling sad in myself that I was not a better and more committed

mum, to
make myself make time to pump and also get him used to bottles without
resorting to formula.
Am I ruining all the immunities by feeding him formula?
Luckily my supply is staying strong so far, apart from a bit of a dip in

the
early evening, but it has always been like that.......he is like a

barnacle
most evenings since day one.
I am also finding it *really* hard to hold off spoon feeding him, please
don't slate me, Caoimhe and Ciarán my FF babies were both being spoon

fed at
this age, and I am trying really hard to ignore the signs that are

trotted
out by weaning leaflets around here. He is waking more at night(he had

been
sleeping through), he lights up when he smells or sees what we are

eating,
and everything is going to his mouth, he has great head support and can

sit
upright in his pushchair, he has lost the tongue thrust(we know this

because
we had to give him medicine).
My educated head is telling me that he is just exploring with his mouth
right now and not necessarily looking for food. I know that if I was a

less
busy mummy I could nurse him more often him through the day, but I just

find
it hard to find the time.
I suppose you could say I am token breastfeeding at this stage.
I don't know what to do, I'm just hoping that going back to work

clarifies
the ebm v formula thing for me, so that I know how much I can produce

each
day and I just hope time flies until I can spoon feed ( I really can't

see
myself making it to 6 months)
Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?
I just hate the fact that he is not getting all his nourishment from me

but
I can't be as great a mum as most of you here are, I can't dedicate

myself
to breastfeeding exclusively.
Sorry for the vent



  #6  
Old November 9th 03, 11:24 AM
Herself
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)

Leslie wrote:

Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?


No. My youngest (13 lbs. 5 oz. at birth) was exclusively bf and showed
little interest in solids until he was about 18 months old. Your milk is
plenty at this point!


Okay, that has to be the largest at-birth baby I've heard of. Wow.
Nice one!
--
'Tis Herself
  #7  
Old November 9th 03, 11:24 AM
Herself
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)

Irish Marie wrote:

When I return to work I will be getting 3x20minute breaks to pump, so
hopefully by then I can break the formula cycle and just feed him the EBM as
long as I get enough out.


First, I'm impressed with your company that they will give you the
time...that's great!

I'm feeling sad in myself that I was not a better and more committed mum, to
make myself make time to pump and also get him used to bottles without
resorting to formula.


Whoa...in this country of any, the fact that you're *still* nursing is
huge. And great. Don't you dare belittle that fact by saying you're
not a committed mom.

There have been many on this ng who have given their children formula in
addition to/in place of bm. While a lot of us say "Why would
anyone...", that's more saying it in a place that we feel is "safe" to
discuss. I will NEVER look someone in the eye and tell them they are
wrong for giving their child formula. It goes against *my* thinking,
but that's not *my child* and I don't know the circumstances. I come
across strong on the ng, but I'm a huge chicken in real life :-).

Am I ruining all the immunities by feeding him formula?


14 weeks...(does math in head...pulls a few brain cells...) 4 months?
IIRC, your family doesn't have allergy problems, right? I think that
"ruining" is the wrong word. It will change the flora in his gut, no
matter what. As for immunities, I thought the majority of that was in
the first weeks? (someone please tell me if I'm wrong.)

Luckily my supply is staying strong so far, apart from a bit of a dip in the
early evening, but it has always been like that.......he is like a barnacle
most evenings since day one.


Well, that's great! Can you schedule time in your day (pick up C, start
dinner, sit down and pump) for pumping? It's just as important as
making dinner. Can hubby start dinner for you, and you do some pumping
with that time?

I don't know what to do, I'm just hoping that going back to work clarifies
the ebm v formula thing for me, so that I know how much I can produce each
day and I just hope time flies until I can spoon feed ( I really can't see
myself making it to 6 months)


This is an honest question...do you think spoon feeding will make it
easier for you? Cause once we started P on food, our lives became more
difficult (and this was before we realized he had allergies). Just
dealing with his food, cleaning him up (and changing his clothes, most
times)...ugh. If I could still only nurse him now, I would!! :-) I
don't know how spoon feeding will be easier. I'd think it would take
away your time more. Plus, he's still going to need bm/formula as well.
I don't think food cuts down too many nursings with bf babies.

Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?


snort P was 9lbs 7oz...still nurses about 4x a day.

I just hate the fact that he is not getting all his nourishment from me but
I can't be as great a mum as most of you here are, I can't dedicate myself
to breastfeeding exclusively.


Stop it!! You are a great mom (and don't tell me different, I've seen
your kids!!), and giving formula doesn't make you any less of one! Take
a deep breath, and go put your feet up for a few minutes. I mean it.

If you hate the fact that he doesn't get all his food from you, can we
help you make a routine so that he can? Really.

And big hugs. You sound overwhelmed...I can come out and visit some
time soon if you want. Hey...a friend and I (and P) are going to hop
the train to Sligo on Friday for the day. Want to come?
--
'Tis Herself
  #8  
Old November 10th 03, 12:02 AM
Irish Marie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)


"Phoebe & Allyson" wrote in message
...
And
really, the whole point of having a freezer stash is to feed
it to the baby. So don't beat yourself up about having fed
it to the baby.



That made me giggle!! This is so true, thanks for pointing that aspect out.

Am I ruining all the immunities by feeding him formula?



Nope. If you want to cut back on the formula, you might try
cutting the formula back to one bottle a day, and see if
he's still willing to take bottles. He should be able to go
back to multiple bottles when you got back to work.


He is waking more at night(he had been
sleeping through),



I've been attributing that to a combination of teething and
learning new skills. If we have a couple of particularly
bad nights, Caterpillar usually has mastered a new skill at
the end. And a dose of Tylenol before bed has done wonders
on the days she's acting more pained than skillful, but Liam
is on the young side to be teething.


Thanks Phoebe, it's so easy to forget *why* he might be waking more at
night........I'm just thinking of those Pampers ads that go on how baby
needs sleep to make sense of all new stuff they have learnt!

he lights up when he smells or sees what we are eating,
and everything is going to his mouth, he has great head support and can

sit
upright in his pushchair, he has lost the tongue thrust(we know this

because
we had to give him medicine).



Wow! Caterpillar only lost her tongue thrust within the
last month (I want to say in the last 2-3 weeks), and she's
23 weeks old.


Really? No, I am sure Liam has lost his as I distinctly remember Caoimhe
and Ciarán's tongue thrusts and what they looked like.

Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?



Caterpillar was 8 pounds 4 ounces (3.75 kg) when she was
born, and has consistently been 80th percentile for weight,
and hasn't been unsatisfied with no solids.


I can't be as great a mum as most of you here are



Sure you are. If you were a bad mom, you wouldn't be
worrying about how to balance your needs and all 3 of your
kids' needs and going back to work and still bf as much as
possible.

Thanks for the comments and help Phoebe
--
Marie
Mum of 3
DD born 03/98, DS1 born 11/99 DS2 born 08/03



  #9  
Old November 10th 03, 12:03 AM
Irish Marie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)


"Leslie" wrote in message
...
Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?


No. My youngest (13 lbs. 5 oz. at birth) was exclusively bf and showed

little
interest in solids until he was about 18 months old. Your milk is plenty

at
this point!

Leslie


Wow!! Was he on solids and just not very fond of them or did you not
introduce them until 18 months.
My 5 yr old is still not very into solids......lolol!!!
--
Marie
Mum of 3
DD born 03/98, DS1 born 11/99 DS2 born 08/03



  #10  
Old November 10th 03, 12:07 AM
Irish Marie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I'm back(vent, rant,,,,got long)


"KC" wrote in message
om...
{{{{Marie}}}}

You're not alone. I had to give formula early on because of low
diaper counts.


Luckily we don't have any issues with diaper counts here.

Plus I started solids right at 4 months. My baby was
showing all the signs too. She is 5.5 months now, and it hasn't
hurt her.


Well this is my problem, I can look back at putting Caoimhe on solids at 12
weeks and Ciarán at 14 weeks......and say that they have had no problems
with allergies or food issues. But now that I feel more educated and did
wean Liam earlier and then if he did develop a food intolerance I would beat
myself up over it!!

She has always been months ahead at most things, including
readiness for eating. She actually just cruised for the first time
tonight, and has been standing at a short table since she was 3.5
months old and sitting up since probably 3 months too.


Caoimhe (now 5) was like that too!

If others want
to go to 6 months even when their babies are showing readiness to eat,
that is their business, but not me.

And that's fair enough as far as I am concerned. It's just getting to the
point of making a decision that is hard isn't it!!

You won't mess up immunities by giving some formula, as long as you
keep giving breast milk the baby will get the immunities. I also
think breast milk is the best brain food. I have nothing but my own
anecdotal evidence to back that up, but even if you do have to give
formula remember that giving as much breast milk as you can is still
very important. It is not all or nothing.


Thanks for your comments and advise KC

--
Marie
Mum of 3
DD born 03/98, DS1 born 11/99 DS2 born 08/03

KC -
buy or rent Whittlestone Breast Expressers at:
http://www.alittlestore.com




"Irish Marie" wrote in message

...
Hi to you all
I had a sick computer (well 2 actually) and between Jean, Herself and

her dh
we got them fixed and now I'm backed. I missed ngs!
Anyway Liam is now 14weeks as of tomorrow.
I am starting back at work next Tuesday week (the 18th)
Liam is thriving.
But there are a couple of things I am feeling low about now.
I introduced a couple of bottles of formula (he'd usually take 4x4oz

bottles
a day) during the hours that I will be at work and am still nursing him

in
the mornings and evenings. (When I return to work I will be gone from

him
from 9am to 6pm....but won't be home and able to sit down and nurse

until
probably 7pm)
I had started getting a stash in the freezer but was using them up.

Then I
also got lazy at pumping........I see it as a chore.
Then Liam was rejecting bottles so we decided to give him regular

bottles to
get him used to them before I return to work. I used up the EBM stash

and
wasn't renewing it because I was too tired keeping up with my older 2
children and feeding him the bottles that I didn't have time to pump as
well......I do sometimes fit in late night and the occasional morning

pump.
When I return to work I will be getting 3x20minute breaks to pump, so
hopefully by then I can break the formula cycle and just feed him the

EBM as
long as I get enough out. But has anyone else managed to feed their

baby
ebm while they work without depending on a freezer stash??
I'm feeling sad in myself that I was not a better and more committed

mum, to
make myself make time to pump and also get him used to bottles without
resorting to formula.
Am I ruining all the immunities by feeding him formula?
Luckily my supply is staying strong so far, apart from a bit of a dip in

the
early evening, but it has always been like that.......he is like a

barnacle
most evenings since day one.
I am also finding it *really* hard to hold off spoon feeding him, please
don't slate me, Caoimhe and Ciarán my FF babies were both being spoon

fed at
this age, and I am trying really hard to ignore the signs that are

trotted
out by weaning leaflets around here. He is waking more at night(he had

been
sleeping through), he lights up when he smells or sees what we are

eating,
and everything is going to his mouth, he has great head support and can

sit
upright in his pushchair, he has lost the tongue thrust(we know this

because
we had to give him medicine).
My educated head is telling me that he is just exploring with his mouth
right now and not necessarily looking for food. I know that if I was a

less
busy mummy I could nurse him more often him through the day, but I just

find
it hard to find the time.
I suppose you could say I am token breastfeeding at this stage.
I don't know what to do, I'm just hoping that going back to work

clarifies
the ebm v formula thing for me, so that I know how much I can produce

each
day and I just hope time flies until I can spoon feed ( I really can't

see
myself making it to 6 months)
Do big babies at birth tend to need to wean early?
I just hate the fact that he is not getting all his nourishment from me

but
I can't be as great a mum as most of you here are, I can't dedicate

myself
to breastfeeding exclusively.
Sorry for the vent



 




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