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Gag
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Gag
What religion were your four parents, Kane?
What made you decide to be an Atheist? 0:- wrote: http://cathys-miracle-place.blogspot...iscipline.html |
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Gag
Greegor wrote: What religion were your four parents, Kane? Undifferentiated. And I only had two. What made you decide to be an Atheist? Knowledge. What relevance is there to your questions? In other words, do you have a point other than wanting to appear more intelligent than you are? What religion were yours and why did you decide to become an idiot? I see you didn't want to get into the religous justification for beating children. It's there if you can read. 0:-] 0:- wrote: http://cathys-miracle-place.blogspot...iscipline.html |
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Gag
Don't you think your parents religion had something to do with your
atheism? Greegor wrote: What religion were your four parents, Kane? Kane wrote Undifferentiated. And I only had two. But you also lost two, you said. Was it a moral or ethical lie? Greg wrote What made you decide to be an Atheist? Kane wrote Knowledge. College days? Don't you look back at your youthful zeal and realize what a rediculous idealist you were? What relevance is there to your questions? Directly relates to your reaction to the link you posted. In other words, do you have a point other than wanting to appear more intelligent than you are? According to you, I need more of that! What religion were yours and why did you decide to become an idiot? I see you didn't want to get into the religous justification for beating children. It's there if you can read. http://cathys-miracle-place.blogspot...iscipline.html |
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Gag
Greegor wrote: Don't you think your parents religion had something to do with your atheism? Nope. During WWII the folks that babysat me for my shipyard welder mom were Catholic. They took over the job of making a "Christian" out of me. Greegor wrote: What religion were your four parents, Kane? Kane wrote Undifferentiated. And I only had two. But you also lost two, you said. Was it a moral or ethical lie? I only had two bios. How many did you have? Did you know that bitches can be impregnated by more than one dog? Greg wrote What made you decide to be an Atheist? Kane wrote Knowledge. College days? If I relied only on college for my knowledge, Gagg, I'd be a delusional babbler like you. Don't you look back at your youthful zeal and realize what a rediculous idealist you were? Don't we all though. sigh What relevance is there to your questions? Directly relates to your reaction to the link you posted. While of course avoiding any discussion of what was at that link, right? In other words, do you have a point other than wanting to appear more intelligent than you are? According to you, I need more of that! You were bound to get one right. What religion were yours and why did you decide to become an idiot? What religion were yours and why did you decide to become an idiot? I see you didn't want to get into the religous justification for beating children. It's there if you can read. I see you didn't want to get into the religous justification for beating children, still. http://cathys-miracle-place.blogspot...iscipline.html Please comment on the article. We can save the personal attacks for any old time. Does this blog author not defend the beating of children by use of the Bible? Yes, or no? And you defend their choice, or disagree with it how? 0:- |
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Gag
Greegor wrote:
What religion were your four parents, Kane? And here I thought Don crawled out from under a rock. What made you decide to be an Atheist? 0:- wrote: http://cathys-miracle-place.blogspot...iscipline.html |
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Michael's request..was.. Gag
Michael wrote: 0:- wrote: Michael wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 0:- wrote: Michael wrote: Greegor wrote: What religion were your four parents, Kane? And here I thought Don crawled out from under a rock. What made you decide to be an Atheist? 0:- wrote: http://cathys-miracle-place.blogspot...iscipline.html Not interested in the actual topic of the thread, Michael, but felt the need to contribute? I do get the urge occasionally. Let's try again, and see if you have any thoughts on the point I made about this website, shall we? http://cathys-miracle-place.blogspot...iscipline.html " Please comment on the article. We can save the personal attacks for any old time. Does this blog author not defend the beating of children by use of the Bible? She appears to defend the use of discipline. If you agree that 'discipline' must include hitting. Yes, or no? And you defend their choice, or disagree with it how? I agree that children need discipline, up to and including spankings. Not beatings. Which of her statements and quotes must be ignored to agree with her then? Proverbs 23:13-14: "Withold not discipline from the child, for if you strike and punish him with the (reed-like) rod, he will not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." That one? Notice she had to insert "(reed-like)" when in fact no where in the bible or any translated material from Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic has limited the "rod" to be a light reed. In fact, if she knew what a reed actually is she'd know that it can be very painful indeed. So she made that up. She carefully attempts to limit the object and refers to not "beating," and not leaving lasting damage. Two questions come to mind. One is that there is no line to be crossed. You don't know it's there until after you've crossed it. And that would be for both physical and mental injury. The second one is this: how many cases of physical abuse that come to the attention of CPS do not include an excuse by the parent they were just disciplining? I took special notice of this presumption by the author: ...Godly discipline will keep children from being dysfunctional later in life. We are told as Christian parents to train our children in the ways of the Lord and when they grow up, they will not depart from that training. Notice it says "train," not "teach." Many parents teach their children right from wrong, but have failed to "train" them to obey. Spanking is part of the training. Many parents yell and threaten their children, but never follow through with the proper punishment, and therefore, their children get their own way. A disciplined child will bring great delight to parents, while the child left alone will bring shame to the home. Many a mother has wept when her children became wicked and thus shamed her. The Bible way to prevent this is by disciplining a child while he is young by spanking him. The Bible does not say to "reason" with a child. When a child is older, you can certainly add reasoning with the spanking. However, the most convincing thing we can do is to spank them. We have heard the expression, "the way to reason with them is through their bottoms."... Between the two children I raised without CP and the two my wife raised without CP, one is about to become a CPA, another has worked for the same company in heavy industry for 21 years, one is a management level employee of one of the Fortune 500 companies, and one is fully employed in the leasing industry and has been since reaching adulthood. No one has been in jail. No one is violent. This is not a coincidence. I know hundreds of families just like ours in this matter of CP. Hundreds of families that included spanking have the same successes as you claim to have had. That is not a coincidence either. They routinely report a preponderance of the same outcomes as we have had. It's rare to find anyone among them that has had any trouble with the law, or drugs. Interestingly, those people that report having been "spanked" as children have a much higher incidence, as adults, of crime, depression, drug use, and suicide. Would you share a source that has studied this? Sure. Thanks. You are welcome. Generally first, then specifically with my comments. A search turns up about 37,000 for spanking anxiety aggression 2005. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search http://tinyurl.com/ym2cvk Among these is the most recent and largest study ever done...and international study we've tried to engage spanking advocates on without success. They seem to be in denial. With your indulgence I'll cross post to alt.parenting.spanking, which is more On Topic than our posting site at the moment. I posted the following in April of this year. From: 0:- - view profile Date: Sun, Apr 16 2006 10:44 am Email: "0:-" Groups: alt.parenting.spanking Not yet rated Rating: show options Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Remove | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm " ... The researchers found differences in how often mothers used physical discipline and the mothers' perceptions of how often other parents used physical discipline. Specifically: * Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline their children, followed by mothers in China, the Philippines, Italy, India, and Kenya, with mothers in Kenya most likely to physically discipline their children. * More frequent use of physical discipline was less strongly associated with child aggression and anxiety when it was perceived as being more culturally accepted, but physical discipline was also associated with more aggression and anxiety regardless of the perception of cultural acceptance. * In countries in which physical discipline was more common and culturally accepted, children who were physically disciplined were less aggressive and less anxious than children who were physically disciplined in countries where physical discipline was rarely used. * In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... " Those last sentences pretty much says it all for the argument that where cultures accept more CP it doesn't result in aberrent reactions in children. The next is a smaller study on the use of aggressively harsh CP to preschool aged children. I've seen posters defend the use of such methods as being "up to the parent to decide." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0202073032.htm .... In their article, Roy C. Herrenkohl, distinguished university service professor at Lehigh, and M. Jean Russo, a Lehigh research scientist, say evidence points to a strong link between child rearing and early childhood aggression. "Infants and preschoolers whose early socioemotional needs are not appropriately met develop expectations that care is not available and that others cannot be trusted or caring," the researchers say. "Consequently, these children may view themselves as unworthy of such care and become angry in the expectation that their needs will not be met. This sense of deprivation gives rise to frustration and anger. "Overly severe physical discipline in early childhood is one type of violent behavior experienced at a time when the child is learning to interact with the world. The experience of harsh, physical discipline both terrorizes and humiliates the child, adding to the sense of worthlessness and providing a model for coping in social interactions. .... http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/423496 .... Corporal punishment is associated with an increased risk of later violence: peer violence, domestic violence, and suicide are all correlated with parental reliance on corporal punishment. Nevertheless, most American parents spank their children. According to Dr. Howard, 25% of children younger than 6 months old have been spanked, as have 40% of children 6-12 months old. Infants cannot understand the reason that they are being spanked, and spanking interferes with attachment. In contrast, parents who learn how to set firm limits without resorting to violence teach their children a valuable lesson. Parents, in fact, play enormously important roles in modeling how to deal with conflict and frustration. There are a number of nonviolent negative reinforcement techniques, ranging from the "hairy eyeball" to "time out" models, Dr. Howard noted. ... While CP is not the only factor in children who grow up with problems with anxiety, depression, criminal behavior, it appears to be a significant factor. What's my personal take? Well, for many years in my youth I observed, deliberately, people around me that were successful according to my personal values. Satisfaction with their life. Modest to wealthy earning power. Free of crime, substance abuse, and mental illness. The common denominator? Little or no CP. I personally, candidly, and informally questioned such folks about their childhood. Later as I returned to school for higher education I found more sources, such as I've listed above, that agreed with my empirical results based solely on my desire to understand why some people are successful in life, and others are not. I could see plenty of both around me. And I found exceptions as well. That appeared to prove the concept that the less CP the more success as an adult. http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP67%2...0Spanked.pd f http://tinyurl.com/y7nn6s At the link above you'll find a Strauss report on the CP issue. He is still an active researcher so if you are interested you may wish to look at other of his works. In other words, there is a preponderance of evidence that spanking hurts, in more ways than intended. There is no evidence that spanking works without risk. Or even that it teaches the desired lesson in the long term. Working with adolescents in a treatment setting made even more clear to me the issues around CP. The only child ever worked with that confounded the model...that is he had not been subjected to CP as a small child but had horrendous life problems, including violence, turned out to have brain damage that went undetected until I convinced a psychiatrist to send him for a neurological workup and a scan showed the anomaly. Every single adolescent child I ever worked with, hundreds, had one or more of the issues of anxiety, depression, substance abuse, and violent sometimes criminal behavior. Every one also shared having had early CP, from mild to harsh...and oddly it did not matter as to outcomes, all that much, which had happened to the child. All shared similar problems. Kane Kane 0:- " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFdNqK9BRaXcRKuK0RAvytAJ4qetT7zsUl8oYkgqwosF i50y4p4wCeIz3E Tesf8lTkQsmxrBHoHckAcPI= =059F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Michael |
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Michael's request..was.. Gag
Dan Sullivan wrote: Greegor wrote: Among people who do not believe in spanking (nonspankers) Kane represents the most extreme (anti-spanking) and the intent to IMPOSE this agenda through laws even offends many nonspankers. Whose laws? Kane is writing laws now? Kane tends not to use any even-handed (pun) research. Check out alt.parenting.spanking Check out http://tinyurl.com/yxodvb It's HILARIOUS!!!! Greg offers to teach a spanking course... Greg's buddy, Dennis, was careful to remove the alt.parenting.spanking group address from the list. I wonder why? Didn't want anyone that knows better to see his lying post? 0:-] |
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Spanking and religion
G Don't you think your parents religion had
G something to do with your atheism? Kane wrote Nope. During WWII the folks that babysat me for my shipyard welder mom were Catholic. They took over the job of making a "Christian" out of me. G Why do you think that was not part of your G decision to be come an atheist? Kane wrote I didn't say it wasn't. Greg wrote My impression is that a disproportionate number of atheists were once Catholics. Isn't it one of the more dogmatic of the Christian denominations? K Your impressions are not the gold K standard, Greg. Or haven't you noticed yet? chuckle G Did you parents approve of this religious indoctrination? K I don't recall. One is very young when they take First Communion. This question was about YOUR indoctrination. Did your bio parents approve of this indoctrination? How many YEARS were you with the foster parents that they could fully indoctrinate you with Catholicism? If not, that certainly could have contributed to some resentments! Come to think of it though, even if they DID, it sure could have. Are you suggesting I have [resentments] toward Christians, in general? Maybe later, but for now I was after information about the "sling shot effect" as I see it. Just before I openned you post to read it I was looking for the Lawerence website to add to the thread after my reply to Michael The issue isn't religion, Greg, it's what I consider to be a misuse of it. An atheist is NOT an appropriate judge of this, period. http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/ This is another Christian perspective on CP, Greg. You go from one fruit cake extreme to the other. Gosh, you'd think there was NO in-between! I'd hardly be resentful of Christians and post in support of my arguments from their source, now would I? Sure you would! Anything that serves your personal CRUSADE! Kane wrote of his bio parents Undifferentiated. Greg wrote Please explain "undifferentiated" in your context. Kane wrote Please explain why you wish to know. Already explained. Understanding the background of your personal atheism tempers any discussion where your anti-religious zeal arises. Greg wrote What made you decide to be an Atheist? Kane wrote Knowledge. Greg Was there an event or indoctrination that lead to your "epiphany"? Kane wrote LIfe. That's not generally how such epiphanies come about. Could you please be more honest about this? K What relevance is there to your questions? G Directly relates to your reaction to the link you posted. K While of course avoiding any discussion K of what was at that link, right? K I see you didn't want to get into the religous K justification for beating children. Sure, but understanding an atheists motivation for attacking religion Obviously you don't need to understand, Greg, as you made up your mind I was attacking religion. Did you think you were the first atheist to do so? Or are you so deep into your atheism you don't even see it? When you fact it was beating USING religion as an excuse. It was? would be as important as understanding a fanatically religious participant defending dogma would be. No, I don't need to know his history to argue. Why would you need to know mine? Actually, dogmatists are fairly ...dogmatic atheists are less so. Now would you care to argue the actual issue, or do you think you are smart with your all to obvious dodges? No, she departs, on the issue CP, somewhat from what others say. Golly I had NO IDEA you were pointing out a fruit cake!! (giggle) And not all Christians agree on the use of CP for discipline. Like you thought they would? I see you didn't want to get into the religous justification for beating children, still. Please comment on the article. We can save the personal attacks for any old time. Your entire motivation is an atheist version of jihadh or crusade. Really? You know that I've posted this website link many times here, Greg. http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/ What would have been "an atheist version of jihadh or crusade" about my doing so? How does this change your personal crusade? Does this blog author not defend the beating of children by use of the Bible? Yes, or no? And you defend their choice, or disagree with it how? Greg wrote You want to put them on trial vicariously through me? Mental case! Kane wrote Hyperbole. You constantly attempt to use others to put someone on trail, Greg. And I asked your opinion, not for a trial. In other words you cannot carry forword your argument. I see. MY argument? Mental case! As I said, when you get over your cowardice, "Does this blog author not defend the beating of children by use of the Bible? Yes, or no? And you defend their choice, or disagree with it how?" Why in hell would I do any of what you say? Jackass! I'll presume you are unable to defend your own position on the use of CP unless you can cogently argue using this source I pointed out. Why the heck would I use the source you pointed out? Or defend what against what?? You may now add also, Sue Lawrences website, a Christian one that does not agree with using pain to "train" children http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/ Have you ever actually had success with scamming people into arguing with you on YOUR TERMS? |
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Spanking and religion
Greegor wrote: ....a lot of dodging of the issue, and refusal to accept that I was not criticizing "religion" but the use of religion to support beating children. G Don't you think your parents religion had G something to do with your atheism? Kane wrote Nope. During WWII the folks that babysat me for my shipyard welder mom were Catholic. They took over the job of making a "Christian" out of me. G Why do you think that was not part of your G decision to be come an atheist? Kane wrote I didn't say it wasn't. Greg wrote My impression is that a disproportionate number of atheists were once Catholics. Isn't it one of the more dogmatic of the Christian denominations? K Your impressions are not the gold K standard, Greg. Or haven't you noticed yet? chuckle Ah, then you did notice. G Did you parents approve of this religious indoctrination? K I don't recall. One is very young when they take First Communion. This question was about YOUR indoctrination. Yes? Did your bio parents approve of this indoctrination? I don't recall. One is very young when they take First Communion. What makes you think my answer is not directly to your question? I certainly wasn't making a claim for someone else, and certainly people have limited recall of their childhood. How many YEARS were you with the foster parents that they could fully indoctrinate you with Catholicism? I wasn't. And obviously they didn't. If not, that certainly could have contributed to some resentments! Come to think of it though, even if they DID, it sure could have. Are you suggesting I have [resentments] toward Christians, in general? Maybe later, but for now I was after information about the "sling shot effect" as I see it. And what do you mean by "'sling shot effect'?" Just before I openned you post to read it I was looking for the Lawerence website to add to the thread after my reply to Michael The issue isn't religion, Greg, it's what I consider to be a misuse of it. An atheist is NOT an appropriate judge of this, period. Then only religious people are appropriate to comment on religion? Interesting view of the world you have, Greg. http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/ This is another Christian perspective on CP, Greg. You go from one fruit cake extreme to the other. Ah, then you admit the first one was less than rational. My very argument. Now could you explain why you think the Lawarence's website and their views are "fruit cake?" Gosh, you'd think there was NO in-between! If course there is an in-between, but that creates the question again...you know the one. Where is The Line between Safe Spanking, and injurious beating? I'd hardly be resentful of Christians and post in support of my arguments from their source, now would I? Sure you would! No I wouldn't. I'm not Greg. Anything that serves your personal CRUSADE! Oh, you mean I support my claims. Yes, you are right. It's hardly a "crusade" to advocate for a social consciousness and service provision law that has no penalties attached to violations of it, Greg. You have lied about me and my being an anti spanking "extremist." Kane wrote of his bio parents Undifferentiated. Greg wrote Please explain "undifferentiated" in your context. Kane wrote Please explain why you wish to know. Already explained. Your question is not an explanation. Understanding the background of your personal atheism tempers any discussion where your anti-religious zeal arises. Are you willing to submit to the same "background check?" Greg wrote What made you decide to be an Atheist? Kane wrote Knowledge. Greg Was there an event or indoctrination that lead to your "epiphany"? Kane wrote LIfe. That's not generally how such epiphanies come about. Could you please be more honest about this? No. I'm very honest about it as it is. Living life can be educational, or it can be doing the same stupid things over and over again to support failed agendas. So far I've managed to avoid the latter. And you? K What relevance is there to your questions? G Directly relates to your reaction to the link you posted. K While of course avoiding any discussion K of what was at that link, right? K I see you didn't want to get into the religous K justification for beating children. Sure, but understanding an atheists motivation for attacking religion Obviously you don't need to understand, Greg, as you made up your mind I was attacking religion. Did you think you were the first atheist to do so? Non sequitur. Unless you think that all atheists attack religion. If so, this proves again that you are bigot. Or are you so deep into your atheism you don't even see it? See what? That I'm not the first atheist to not attack religion, or that your bigotted viewpoint that being one I must therefore mean to attack religion? When you fact it was beating USING religion as an excuse. It was? Yes. That's what I said. would be as important as understanding a fanatically religious participant defending dogma would be. No, I don't need to know his history to argue. Why would you need to know mine? Actually, dogmatists are fairly ...dogmatic atheists are less so. Again with the non sequitur. Your answer does not respond to my statement and question. Atheists by definition are not dogmatic as a group. I've a few that were extremists, just as in any group, and mostly those that simply aren't engaged in any debate on the issues. Now would you care to argue the actual issue, or do you think you are smart with your all to obvious dodges? No, she departs, on the issue CP, somewhat from what others say. Golly I had NO IDEA you were pointing out a fruit cake!! (giggle) In other words you don't wish to debate the issue. I see. And not all Christians agree on the use of CP for discipline. Like you thought they would? Like I thought you'd like to argue. Don't you? I see you didn't want to get into the religous justification for beating children, still. Please comment on the article. We can save the personal attacks for any old time. Your entire motivation is an atheist version of jihadh or crusade. Really? You know that I've posted this website link many times here, Greg. http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/ What would have been "an atheist version of jihadh or crusade" about my doing so? How does this change your personal crusade? It would be inconsistent with your claim of 'jihadh or crusade'[sic] for me to agree with anyone religious. Does this blog author not defend the beating of children by use of the Bible? Yes, or no? And you defend their choice, or disagree with it how? Greg wrote You want to put them on trial vicariously through me? Mental case! Kane wrote Hyperbole. You constantly attempt to use others to put someone on trail, Greg. And I asked your opinion, not for a trial. In other words you cannot carry forword your argument. I see. MY argument? Mental case! Try to pull yourself together and answer anyway. As I said, when you get over your cowardice, "Does this blog author not defend the beating of children by use of the Bible? Yes, or no? And you defend their choice, or disagree with it how?" Why in hell would I do any of what you say? Jackass! To debate rather than lie and dodge. You are the one that responded to my post. I presume you are prepared to defend a viewpoint. I'll presume you are unable to defend your own position on the use of CP unless you can cogently argue using this source I pointed out. Why the heck would I use the source you pointed out? Only in opposition. In other words don't go running off to some other issue. You may of course use any source you wish to defend your position against the one on the source I pointed out. Or defend what against what?? You are the one posting seemingly in opposition. Defend your views against mine. You may now add also, Sue Lawrences website, a Christian one that does not agree with using pain to "train" children http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/ Have you ever actually had success with scamming people into arguing with you on YOUR TERMS? Not liars, no. They insist on making a claim, then dodging when they are asked to respond to a challenge of their claim, just has you have been doing. And my "TERMS" are the one's debaters use normally. I offer you a piece of information. You argue against it, either by asking questions that are not to the point, or when asked to defend your arguement you run. Feel free to make any argument you wish. You'll be treated accordingly. 0:-] |
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