Kids calling other kids "gay" as an insult-how to handle?

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?

In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?



Or one who IS gay -- and who already knows that at the age of 8 or 9 or
10.

That was my problem when my son was in 5th grade and started being
called "gay" and "fag" at school. How could I do two things at once:
first, sympathise with him for being called names, and second make sure
he knew that he was being called something that it would be OK to be, so
it shouldn't be insulting in the first place! We talked about it a lot
-- in this case, we could talk about it in second hand terms, since he
two uncles who are gay (my brother and his partner). (At that point, I
was not certain of my son's orientation, and chose to not ask him -- I
figured he'd tell me when he was ready.)

I wish the schools would get more involved, and deal with the issue of
homophobia more directly and earlier. I know it is a problem for them,
since if they talk about it, some parents want them to say that it's
wrong while others want them to say it is NOT wrong. And, of course,
many don't even want their kids to know it exists. However, at least
until the kids reach high school age, I'm not holding my breath in hopes
that the schools will adress the rampant homphobia in the schools.

About all we as parents can do is two things: first, make sure the kids
know that ANY word used with the intent of hurting someone else is
wrong, and, second, make sure they know that "gay" does NOT mean
"stupid" or anything else insulting. It helps if your family and
friends circle includes people who are openly gay. It is one of those
issues where putting a face on it -- making sure they know real people
who are openly gay and lesbian -- can help kids NOT fall into the trap
of using the word in a derogatory way. If there are no folks in your
cirlce, you can certainly point out celebreties whom they admire who are
openly gay or lesbian.

My oldest daughter took this one on fairly agressively in her high
school, challenging anyone who used "gay" as an insult to make sure they
knew what it REALLY meant -- and that there was nothing wrong with being
gay. On more than one occassion, a still closeted teen took her aside
and very privately, very quietly, thanked her. I like to think it
helped the isolation those teens feel, at least a little.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary
students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying
things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?



Or one who IS gay -- and who already knows that at the age of 8 or 9 or
10.

That was my problem when my son was in 5th grade and started being
called "gay" and "fag" at school. How could I do two things at once:
first, sympathise with him for being called names, and second make sure
he knew that he was being called something that it would be OK to be, so
it shouldn't be insulting in the first place! We talked about it a lot
-- in this case, we could talk about it in second hand terms, since he
two uncles who are gay (my brother and his partner). (At that point, I
was not certain of my son's orientation, and chose to not ask him -- I
figured he'd tell me when he was ready.)

I wish the schools would get more involved, and deal with the issue of
homophobia more directly and earlier. I know it is a problem for them,
since if they talk about it, some parents want them to say that it's
wrong while others want them to say it is NOT wrong. And, of course,
many don't even want their kids to know it exists. However, at least
until the kids reach high school age, I'm not holding my breath in hopes
that the schools will adress the rampant homphobia in the schools.

This is part of the problem. This is a very religious area, and many of the
sects believe that homosexuality is an instant ticket to hell. So it can be
really hard to do anything which might be seen by the conservative parents
as advocating homosexuality, but neither do we want kids using the term
derogatively.
About all we as parents can do is two things: first, make sure the kids
know that ANY word used with the intent of hurting someone else is
wrong, and, second, make sure they know that "gay" does NOT mean
"stupid" or anything else insulting. It helps if your family and
friends circle includes people who are openly gay. It is one of those
issues where putting a face on it -- making sure they know real people
who are openly gay and lesbian -- can help kids NOT fall into the trap
of using the word in a derogatory way. If there are no folks in your
cirlce, you can certainly point out celebreties whom they admire who are
openly gay or lesbian.

I have actually heard a teacher justify them using the word, saying that it
means "stupid", and has nothing to do with sexuality when they use it in
that context-which made my blood boil, because I'm sure there are children
who have gay family members (I didn't even think of the possibility that an
elementary school aged child could be aware of their sexual orientation so
young-I was in high school before I really started developing sexual
feelings at all, towards anyone) and even if the child means "stupid",
hearing yourself or your family called "stupid" isn't good, either.


My oldest daughter took this one on fairly agressively in her high
school, challenging anyone who used "gay" as an insult to make sure they
knew what it REALLY meant -- and that there was nothing wrong with being
gay. On more than one occassion, a still closeted teen took her aside
and very privately, very quietly, thanked her. I like to think it
helped the isolation those teens feel, at least a little.

I have told older kids that unless you are someone's sexual partner, their
orientation is absolutely irrelevant to you, and you don't need to talk
about it, know about it, or think about it. But somehow, I don't think I can
use that with these younger ones.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary
students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying
things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?



Or one who IS gay -- and who already knows that at the age of 8 or 9 or
10.

That was my problem when my son was in 5th grade and started being
called "gay" and "fag" at school. How could I do two things at once:
first, sympathise with him for being called names, and second make sure
he knew that he was being called something that it would be OK to be, so
it shouldn't be insulting in the first place! We talked about it a lot
-- in this case, we could talk about it in second hand terms, since he
two uncles who are gay (my brother and his partner). (At that point, I
was not certain of my son's orientation, and chose to not ask him -- I
figured he'd tell me when he was ready.)

I wish the schools would get more involved, and deal with the issue of
homophobia more directly and earlier. I know it is a problem for them,
since if they talk about it, some parents want them to say that it's
wrong while others want them to say it is NOT wrong. And, of course,
many don't even want their kids to know it exists. However, at least
until the kids reach high school age, I'm not holding my breath in hopes
that the schools will adress the rampant homphobia in the schools.

This is part of the problem. This is a very religious area, and many of the
sects believe that homosexuality is an instant ticket to hell. So it can be
really hard to do anything which might be seen by the conservative parents
as advocating homosexuality, but neither do we want kids using the term
derogatively.
About all we as parents can do is two things: first, make sure the kids
know that ANY word used with the intent of hurting someone else is
wrong, and, second, make sure they know that "gay" does NOT mean
"stupid" or anything else insulting. It helps if your family and
friends circle includes people who are openly gay. It is one of those
issues where putting a face on it -- making sure they know real people
who are openly gay and lesbian -- can help kids NOT fall into the trap
of using the word in a derogatory way. If there are no folks in your
cirlce, you can certainly point out celebreties whom they admire who are
openly gay or lesbian.

I have actually heard a teacher justify them using the word, saying that it
means "stupid", and has nothing to do with sexuality when they use it in
that context-which made my blood boil, because I'm sure there are children
who have gay family members (I didn't even think of the possibility that an
elementary school aged child could be aware of their sexual orientation so
young-I was in high school before I really started developing sexual
feelings at all, towards anyone) and even if the child means "stupid",
hearing yourself or your family called "stupid" isn't good, either.

AGGGGGG

I'm guessing most 1st graders don't know what "mother ****er" or "cock
sucker" really mean, either -- but you can bet that if the kids started
using those phrases to mean "someone I don't like" the teachers would
put an end to it! That's such a stupid argument.

Many GLBT (gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered) people report
knowing as early as 3 or 4 that they were "different" -- long before
they started having conscious sexual thoughts about other people. They
didn't have language for it, or understand what it meant -- but many
know by the age of 10 that they are gay, well before they start being
interested in dating.

Remember: this is no more nor less about sex than being heterosexual.
Did you fantasize about getting married, or having a big wedding, or any
of that as a child? Well, the fantasies MIGHT have been different ones
if you were not straight. (I'm assuming from the way you've phrased
some of what you've written that you ARE straight. I don't usually make
that assumption, and if I'm wrong, I apologize.)


My oldest daughter took this one on fairly agressively in her high
school, challenging anyone who used "gay" as an insult to make sure they
knew what it REALLY meant -- and that there was nothing wrong with being
gay. On more than one occassion, a still closeted teen took her aside
and very privately, very quietly, thanked her. I like to think it
helped the isolation those teens feel, at least a little.

I have told older kids that unless you are someone's sexual partner, their
orientation is absolutely irrelevant to you, and you don't need to talk
about it, know about it, or think about it. But somehow, I don't think I can
use that with these younger ones.


I'll accept the "we don't talk about it, it's irrelevant" -- but only if
you apply it completely across the board. You don't let your kids
gossip about who is dating whom, or who they think would make a cute
couple, or indulge in match making, or take them to weddings celebrating
heterosexual love, or tell them when Aunt Suzie gets engaged to
soon-to-be Uncle Bobbie . . .

The fact is, our culture celebrates heterosexuality all the time. While
I will not speculate about the orientation of someone who has not
declaired themselves one way or the other, if someone is openly gay or
openly straight, I see no problems with everyone -- including the kids
-- knowing that about them. It's just another data point, like knowing
that they are male or female (or intersexual) or that they like climbing
trees or that they are Irish Catholic or . . . .

Remember, this isn't just about sex -- it's about dating, and being
attracted to people, and falling in love, which makes it a pretty
significant part of life!

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary
students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying
things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use
words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt
their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child
who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would
parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?



Or one who IS gay -- and who already knows that at the age of 8 or 9
or
10.

That was my problem when my son was in 5th grade and started being
called "gay" and "fag" at school. How could I do two things at once:
first, sympathise with him for being called names, and second make
sure
he knew that he was being called something that it would be OK to be,
so
it shouldn't be insulting in the first place! We talked about it a lot
-- in this case, we could talk about it in second hand terms, since he
two uncles who are gay (my brother and his partner). (At that point,
I
was not certain of my son's orientation, and chose to not ask him -- I
figured he'd tell me when he was ready.)

I wish the schools would get more involved, and deal with the issue of
homophobia more directly and earlier. I know it is a problem for
them,
since if they talk about it, some parents want them to say that it's
wrong while others want them to say it is NOT wrong. And, of course,
many don't even want their kids to know it exists. However, at least
until the kids reach high school age, I'm not holding my breath in
hopes
that the schools will adress the rampant homphobia in the schools.

This is part of the problem. This is a very religious area, and many of
the
sects believe that homosexuality is an instant ticket to hell. So it can
be
really hard to do anything which might be seen by the conservative
parents
as advocating homosexuality, but neither do we want kids using the term
derogatively.
About all we as parents can do is two things: first, make sure the
kids
know that ANY word used with the intent of hurting someone else is
wrong, and, second, make sure they know that "gay" does NOT mean
"stupid" or anything else insulting. It helps if your family and
friends circle includes people who are openly gay. It is one of those
issues where putting a face on it -- making sure they know real people
who are openly gay and lesbian -- can help kids NOT fall into the trap
of using the word in a derogatory way. If there are no folks in your
cirlce, you can certainly point out celebreties whom they admire who
are
openly gay or lesbian.

I have actually heard a teacher justify them using the word, saying that
it
means "stupid", and has nothing to do with sexuality when they use it in
that context-which made my blood boil, because I'm sure there are
children
who have gay family members (I didn't even think of the possibility that
an
elementary school aged child could be aware of their sexual orientation
so
young-I was in high school before I really started developing sexual
feelings at all, towards anyone) and even if the child means "stupid",
hearing yourself or your family called "stupid" isn't good, either.

AGGGGGG

I'm guessing most 1st graders don't know what "mother ****er" or "cock
sucker" really mean, either -- but you can bet that if the kids started
using those phrases to mean "someone I don't like" the teachers would
put an end to it! That's such a stupid argument.

Well, the person who used it is rather obviously of the "Homosexuality is
bad" camp.

Many GLBT (gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered) people report
knowing as early as 3 or 4 that they were "different" -- long before
they started having conscious sexual thoughts about other people. They
didn't have language for it, or understand what it meant -- but many
know by the age of 10 that they are gay, well before they start being
interested in dating.

Remember: this is no more nor less about sex than being heterosexual.
Did you fantasize about getting married, or having a big wedding, or any
of that as a child? Well, the fantasies MIGHT have been different ones
if you were not straight. (I'm assuming from the way you've phrased
some of what you've written that you ARE straight. I don't usually make
that assumption, and if I'm wrong, I apologize.)

True! didn't think about that. Although, when I had preschoolers, where
imaginitive play was common, it wasn't that odd to have two boys or girls
playing house together. It's the middle elementary years where it seems to
be divided by gender.

I wonder if this will become more accepted as homosexual marriage becomes
more common?



My oldest daughter took this one on fairly agressively in her high
school, challenging anyone who used "gay" as an insult to make sure
they
knew what it REALLY meant -- and that there was nothing wrong with
being
gay. On more than one occassion, a still closeted teen took her aside
and very privately, very quietly, thanked her. I like to think it
helped the isolation those teens feel, at least a little.

I have told older kids that unless you are someone's sexual partner,
their
orientation is absolutely irrelevant to you, and you don't need to talk
about it, know about it, or think about it. But somehow, I don't think I
can
use that with these younger ones.


I'll accept the "we don't talk about it, it's irrelevant" -- but only if
you apply it completely across the board. You don't let your kids
gossip about who is dating whom, or who they think would make a cute
couple, or indulge in match making, or take them to weddings celebrating
heterosexual love, or tell them when Aunt Suzie gets engaged to
soon-to-be Uncle Bobbie . . .

GOing to weddings is in the family, not at school. It doesn't belong at
school. Or, at least, it doesn't belong at school any more than Uncle Bobby
becoming engaged to Uncle Jim, or Aunt Suzie becoming engaged to Aunt
Bettie. Actually, I have had fewer problems in my classroom the times I've
had children with same-gender parents-it becomes accepted pretty fast. It's
this "I'm calling you "Gay" as an insult, because it's a bad word" which
gets me. A child talking about their family, whatever the family is, in
morning sharing is appropriate. Saying that "My Auntie Lena is Gay" may be
appropriate, depending on the context (In the middle of a spelling lesson,
it's not appropriate to say "My Auntie Lena is married to my uncle Wilbur,
either!).

The fact is, our culture celebrates heterosexuality all the time. While
I will not speculate about the orientation of someone who has not
declaired themselves one way or the other, if someone is openly gay or
openly straight, I see no problems with everyone -- including the kids
-- knowing that about them. It's just another data point, like knowing
that they are male or female (or intersexual) or that they like climbing
trees or that they are Irish Catholic or . . . .

Remember, this isn't just about sex -- it's about dating, and being
attracted to people, and falling in love, which makes it a pretty
significant part of life!
Well, who is dating who isn't appropritate conversation for a 3rd grader,
either-and I don't feel that it needs to be emphasized or made a big deal of
in middle school. High school, yes. Hard to avoid it there. But I don't
think kids need to be focusing on it so young. Rather, it should be
appropriate and expected to have friends, of either gender-without it being
a dating thing.

And if this is the atmosphere, it should be better for the GLBT child as
well.



meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

x-no-archive:yes

"Donna Metler" wrote:

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?

My rule was that we couldn't say or do anything that was
disrespectful. So if the children are using it as an insult, that's
not respectful of the other person. Whether it hurts their feelings
or not.

grandma Rosalie

Donna Metler wrote:

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?


I think all you have to do is focus on the *intention*.
The kids are trying to be insulting; therefore, it doesn't
matter *what* word or words they're using. They could be
calling the other kids smart, wealthy, and wise and it would
still be inappropriate if they were using those words to
insult someone.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?

We're actually dealing with this from a different perspective. I just found
out today that my 17 year old son almost got in a fight the other day with some
guy at school who was calling someone else gay (except he a worse slang term
for it). My son, sort of jokingly, pointed at the offender and said "You're
prejudice!" The other guy got ticked off at that and called my son the same
name as he was calling his first target.

The kicker is the other guy isn't getting in any sort of trouble, and my son
was just told to stay away from him to avoid trouble. :::sigh::: I agree I
want him to avoid trouble, especially since he'll be graduating in a few
months, but it burns me that the one who is spewing all the hate is getting
away with it.


Mary

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:05:33 -0600, "Donna Metler"
wrote:

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?

You might check to see if there is a chapter of GLSEN near you
that might have some suggestions.

http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/home.html

Note:
New York, NY – November 17, 2003 – The Gay, Lesbian and Straight
Education Network, or GLSEN, in conjunction with Simon & Schuster
Children’s Publishing and a team of almost forty other partners, is
pleased to announce a new initiative called “No Name-Calling Week.”
During the week of March 1 – 5, 2004, schools serving grades five
through eight across the nation will be asked to take part in a week
of education activities aimed at stopping name-calling and verbal
bullying of all kinds. Former NFL player and activist Esera Tuaolo has
been tapped to be the official spokesperson for this weeklong
event.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

In article ,
ojunk (Maryilee) wrote:

"Gay" seems to be the current insult in fashion among my elementary students
(8, 9, 10 yrs old). While, obviously, I don't want children saying things to
insult others (and have used this as my argument-that we don't use words
which hurt other's feelings, and calling someone "Gay" can hurt their
feelings.), I'm afraid that I may be inadvertantly insulting a child who
might have a homosexual or lesbian parent or relative. How would parents
(especially those in the latter situation) wish this handled?

We're actually dealing with this from a different perspective. I just found
out today that my 17 year old son almost got in a fight the other day with
some
guy at school who was calling someone else gay (except he a worse slang term
for it). My son, sort of jokingly, pointed at the offender and said "You're
prejudice!" The other guy got ticked off at that and called my son the same
name as he was calling his first target.

The kicker is the other guy isn't getting in any sort of trouble, and my son
was just told to stay away from him to avoid trouble. :::sigh::: I agree I
want him to avoid trouble, especially since he'll be graduating in a few
months, but it burns me that the one who is spewing all the hate is getting
away with it.


Mary

I'm sorry you are dealing with this -- but you must be proud of your
son's willingness to stand up and "speak truth" -- name the prejudice
for what it is.

This is where the schools are falling apart. Schools around here have
been sued by parents of GLBT youth for failing to provide a safe
environment for their kids. The drop out rate (and suicide rate) for
GLBT youth is really, really high.

Some schools ARE doing something. Most of the high school kids in our
church are active in their school's Gay Straight Alliances, and several
(including my son) are presidents. Those high schools with active GSA's
are doing something to reduce the hostility -- the environment is better
than at most schools without GSA's.

But even where no GSA exists, for a school to brush off the name calling
and obviously hostile environment is just Not Okay.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care