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Old news:Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/6/282002c.asp
Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. [Proverbs 13:24] Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. [Proverbs 22:6] By Rusty Pugh and Jody Brown June 28, 2002 (AgapePress) - Several pro-family spokespersons are critical of a new study that claims spanking causes long-term damage to children. Psychologist Elizabeth Gershoff of Columbia University says her study, published in a recent issue of Psychological Review, the journal of the American Psychological Association, shows spanking causes aggression, anti-social behavior, and mental problems in kids. But while she contends "long-term harm" is inflicted by spanking, she admits there is no scientific basis for her conclusions. Dr. Janice Crouse of the Beverly LaHaye Institute, who says Gershoff obviously has an agenda, says there is a big difference between spanking and beating a child. "Those are very different kinds of things," Crouse says. "But the beauty of spanking, to me, is that once it's over, it's over -- and the child feels like 'I have paid the price for my disobedience, I have suffered the consequences, and now I can move on.' " Crouse says contrary to this study's findings, it is the absence of spanking that has contributed to worse behavior problems in children and rising crime among young people. "It just is very amusing to me to stand by and listen to some very young, immature parents try to reason with a two-year-old, a three-year-old, or a four-year-old -- and obviously, the child doesn't understand what the parent is reasoning about. But what they do understand is that they can manipulate that parent." Crouse says it takes courage for a parent to discipline a child the old-fashioned way, rather then relying on liberal psycho-babble and ProzacÒ .. Dr. Bill Maier, a child psychologist at Focus on the Family, also debunks Gershoff's study. He says parents have employed spanking as a means of discipline for a long time -- and with good results. "The study implies that every parent using non-abusive corporal punishment does so out of uncontrollable rage," Maier says. "For years, millions of parents have lovingly and intentionally administered mild corporal punishment out of a true desire to raise happy, secure children -- and have been successful." According to Focus on the Family, almost two-thirds of the studies Gershoff reviewed measured only severe corporal punishment -- such as slapping the face, beatings, or hitting with a fist. Despite that, Gershoff uses those results to argue against all forms of corporal punishment. Dr. Walt Larimore is a family physician and vice president of medical outreach for Focus. He disagrees with Gershoff, who told The Washington Post that because of the numerous risks associated with corporal punishment, she can think of no situation where a child should be spanked. "Parents should never discipline their children in anger," Larimore says, "however it is an offensive notion that lovingly administered spanking is tantamount to abuse." Larimore says parents should be outraged to know that their efforts to raise obedient, well-adjusted children have been equated with child abuse. © 2002 AgapePress all rights reserved |
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Old news:Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study
Spanking is not the preferred alternative, but neither is it a straight ticket
to hell. Fortunately, even Canada recognizes the liberty interests parents have in the raising, and rearing of their children, and like the US have affirmed that spanking is legal. The cry babies on this NG were probably beaten because of their persistent, difficult behavior, or because they had not too intelligent parents. Most of them have NOT reproduced. Chris has not. (Founder of this NG--so much of what he posts is simply theory) I wonder if he ever talks to his Mom and it appears his Dad disappeared. Sad..... |
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Old news:Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study
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Old news:Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study
"billyf" wrote in message ...
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/6/282002c.asp Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study I did not know that one is automatically pro-family by the simple expedient of being a pro-spanking compulsive. And that being anti spanking automatically makes one anti family. Am I misunderstanding the title in some way? He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. [Proverbs 13:24] Yes, and he who disagrees with his soveriegn on matters of ownership of the child get's threatened with the dismemberment of the child. Hopefully family courts will remember this great wisdom, also from Proverbs, and apply it in those matters of contention in child placement in divorce proceedings. It would so speed things up, and probably not more than a handfull of children would actually be rendered assunder. Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. [Proverbs 22:6] Yes, Hitler proved that absolutely and conclusively, as have a number of other despots. Of course, correlation isn't causation so maybe I'm wrong. Hitler and others probably just weren't spanked enough. By Rusty Pugh and Jody Brown June 28, 2002 (AgapePress) - Several pro-family spokespersons are critical of a new study that claims spanking causes long-term damage to children. It is rumoured that several pro family spokespersons are the ones that work on such studies. Of course they could be rabidly anti family, but so far I've not seen anything, beyond their interest in looking at the facts, and probably an underlying bias toward not hurting children, that would suggest it. Psychologist Elizabeth Gershoff of Columbia University says her study, published in a recent issue of Psychological Review, the journal of the American Psychological Association, shows spanking causes aggression, anti-social behavior, and mental problems in kids. But while she contends "long-term harm" is inflicted by spanking, she admits there is no scientific basis for her conclusions. That depends on ones definition of "scientific." There is "scientific" as in physics and engineering, where one can routinely use destructive methods to completely test a theory, and then there are the social scienes where one cannot ethically (hence they could publish for peer review a destructive testing methodolgy) do such test but must instead rely on estimations, and statistical modelling almost entirely. There is a history, before the moralists outcries where heard, of some destructive testing of humans, and there are certainly the study of the incidental uncontrolled events around CP collected from observasions and interviews. It's a rather large body, and in a practicial sense it can be used to make more educated and informed decisions...but more on that latter in this reply to the post. Dr. Janice Crouse of the Beverly LaHaye Institute, who says Gershoff obviously has an agenda, says there is a big difference between spanking and beating a child. http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-...ye+Inst itute or http://tinyurl.com/3xks6 " Harvest House Publishers | The Strength of a Godly Woman... Janice Shaw Crouse, Ph.D ... Dr. Crouse, a passionate advocate for traditional values and biblically based solutions to society's problems, has written many ... www.harvesthousepublishers.com/ book.cfm?ProductID=6910131 - 38k - Cached - Similar pages" We are pleased that an academic of such objectivity would comment. And especially an academic and author of such christian godliness. "Those are very different kinds of things," Crouse says. Yes, they certainly are. Beatings are extreme. Spankings are less so. "But the beauty of spanking, I recall that women in olden times, too poor for rouge, or in a hurry, would sometimes slap and pinch their own faces to bring out their coloring in a more attractive reddening. I wonder if that is what she is referring to? Are children's buttocks more beautiful and attractive by the reddening of them? I wonder if children's buttock rouge could find a market? to me, is that once it's over, it's over -- and the child feels like 'I have paid the price for my disobedience, I have suffered the consequences, and now I can move on.' " Saddly, Ms Rouge...ah, Ms Crouse is unaware that this is not how children think. In fact, below the age of reason (as some Christians have labelled it..see Catholicism, age of reason)do not "think" in the sense she presents. They are incapable of true cause and effect reasoning. And science has come to agree with Christianity on this. Brain scans and careful testing (non-destructive, thankfully) shows they cannot, for instance, distinguish that volumes are the same if the identical volumetric containers happen to be of different shapes. It's a dead giveaway, and 5s can't and 7s can tell. Six is the magic year. Wait to beat children senseless when they are six and older and they will have a chance of attacking a cause to the effect of your actions. LIKE YOU ARE ****ING NUTCASE AND THEY BEST START LOOKING FOR A LARGE KNIFE TO FEND YOU OFF THE NEXT TIME YOU LOSE YOUR ****ING MIND. Now were was I. Oh yes..... Crouse says contrary to this study's findings, it is the absence of spanking that has contributed to worse behavior problems in children and rising crime among young people. This is a wonderful observation. In the interests of science I wonder if Ms Crouse, and other unbiased academics of her ilk could provide something other than anecdotal material to support this claim. Certainly 90% of the US population would benefit by knowing and seeing proof that 10% of the youth population is responsible for all the youth crime. "It just is very amusing to me to stand by and listen to some very young, immature parents try to reason with a two-year-old, a three-year-old, or a four-year-old -- and obviously, the child doesn't understand what the parent is reasoning about. But what they do understand is that they can manipulate that parent." And most obviously the answer is in the one tool. No others exist as they would all be as ineffective as reasoning. Crouse says it takes courage for a parent to discipline a child the old-fashioned way, rather then relying on liberal psycho-babble and ProzacÒ . Yep. Sure got them there. This is why, with 90% of the population having experienced spanking, our society is virtually crime free. Especially youth crime. Dr. Bill Maier, a child psychologist at Focus on the Family, also debunks Gershoff's study. He says parents have employed spanking as a means of discipline for a long time -- and with good results. I kmow. The world is close to being a paradise because of the strict application of paddle and switch. We could take a lesson from our third world neighbors and kill a few chidlren publically. Now that would put the fear of G...oh, wait, I'm an athiest...what metaphore is left to me? Let me see now...........oh yes, Put the fear of parents in them. Yes, that will do it nicely. Thank you for your patience. "The study implies that every parent using non-abusive corporal punishment does so out of uncontrollable rage," Maier says. I missed something. I'll have to go back and take one of those critical thinking classes I used to instruct in college. I found no such implication. What I did find was some reference to those that abused in a rage were often heard to claim they were just disciplining. But that brings up an interesting question...no, let that wait for a bit. Let's don't jump ahead to quickly. "For years, millions of parents have lovingly and intentionally administered mild corporal punishment out of a true desire to raise happy, secure children -- and have been successful." That is obviously why the world is obviously a secure and happy place. Now if we can just get that remaining 10% to go to the whip when the child is still and infant. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...=spank+infants Nope that one doesn't work. Let's try again. http://www.nncc.org/Series/good.time.guid.html Nah, not that one. Ah, here it is: http://www.foche.net/TUAC.htm "reason; even mice and rats can be trained to respond to stimuli. Careful training can make a dog perfectly obedient. If a seeing-eye dog can be trained to reliably lead a blind man through the obstacles of a city street, shouldn't a parent expect more out of an intelligent child? A dog can be trained not to touch a tasty morsel laid in front of him. Can't a child be trained not to touch? A dog can be trained to come, stay, sit, be quiet or fetch upon command. You may not have trained your dog that well, yet every day someone accomplishes it on the dumbest mutts. Even a clumsy teenager can be trained to be an effective trainer in a dog obedience school. " Oh, wait, let me check that again to make sure... Yes, that's it alright: (this one is on stopping baby from biting the mother while nursing) "Somewhere in the brain that information is unconsciously stored. After two or three times of biting, with the accompanying head hurting, the child programs that information away for his own comfort. The biting habit is cured before it starts. This is not discipline. It is obedience training. " According to Focus on the Family, A more objective unbiased source one couldn't hope for, home of the great Dachsund Combat Trainer, James Dobson: http://www.family.org/ almost two-thirds of the studies Gershoff reviewed measured only severe corporal punishment -- such as slapping the face, beatings, or hitting with a fist. Despite that, Gershoff uses those results to argue against all forms of corporal punishment. I guess that removes the remaining one third as valid. That's surely a profound example of objectivity. Dr. Walt Larimore is a family physician and vice president of medical outreach for Focus. He disagrees with Gershoff, who told The Washington Post that because of the numerous risks associated with corporal punishment, she can think of no situation where a child should be spanked. Yet another unbiased objective contributor from Focus on the Family. "Parents should never discipline their children in anger," Larimore says, "however it is an offensive notion that lovingly administered spanking is tantamount to abuse." Lovingly administered spanking has one of the most wonderful of outcomes in some cases. A powerful argument for connecting love and pain in the reasoning mind of the child. http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-...dism+masochism Nothing like expanding the horizons of pleasure. I've heard that some Christian evangalists have been led to greater pleasure by this very child hood experience of spanking. Larimore says parents should be outraged to know that their efforts to raise obedient, well-adjusted children have been equated with child abuse. I should say. I think it an outrage that non-spanking parents should be accused of creating criminals and monsters by being unwilling to parent with pain....oh, wait. I think I missed the point. © 2002 AgapePress all rights reserved Well, well. Copyrighted. Let's see if they'll go after me and not the original poster. R R R R Have a wonderful day, Compulsives. Kane |
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Old news:Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study
I did not know that one is automatically
pro-family by the simple expedient of being a pro-spanking compulsive. Do you suppose your ATHEISM has any connection to your pro-gay stance or your reference to parents as "bio reproduction units or as the gays refer to them derisively, "breeders"? A pure coincidence, no doubt! |
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Old news:Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking'Study
So, you have a long list of individuals whose personal opinions are in
disagreement with the results of an actual research study. It's tough when research reveals results which challenge personal opinion. Let those individuals design, implement, and publish research that supports their personal opinion. Then their opinions have validity. Contrary to all scientific research, I could hold the opinion that the earth is indeed flat. Without research supporting my position, what I believe has no validity. So it is with the people you mention below. Personal opinion is evidence of nothing but personal opinion. LaVonne billyf wrote: http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/6/282002c.asp Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. [Proverbs 13:24] Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. [Proverbs 22:6] By Rusty Pugh and Jody Brown June 28, 2002 (AgapePress) - Several pro-family spokespersons are critical of a new study that claims spanking causes long-term damage to children. Psychologist Elizabeth Gershoff of Columbia University says her study, published in a recent issue of Psychological Review, the journal of the American Psychological Association, shows spanking causes aggression, anti-social behavior, and mental problems in kids. But while she contends "long-term harm" is inflicted by spanking, she admits there is no scientific basis for her conclusions. Dr. Janice Crouse of the Beverly LaHaye Institute, who says Gershoff obviously has an agenda, says there is a big difference between spanking and beating a child. "Those are very different kinds of things," Crouse says. "But the beauty of spanking, to me, is that once it's over, it's over -- and the child feels like 'I have paid the price for my disobedience, I have suffered the consequences, and now I can move on.' " Crouse says contrary to this study's findings, it is the absence of spanking that has contributed to worse behavior problems in children and rising crime among young people. "It just is very amusing to me to stand by and listen to some very young, immature parents try to reason with a two-year-old, a three-year-old, or a four-year-old -- and obviously, the child doesn't understand what the parent is reasoning about. But what they do understand is that they can manipulate that parent." Crouse says it takes courage for a parent to discipline a child the old-fashioned way, rather then relying on liberal psycho-babble and ProzacÒ . Dr. Bill Maier, a child psychologist at Focus on the Family, also debunks Gershoff's study. He says parents have employed spanking as a means of discipline for a long time -- and with good results. "The study implies that every parent using non-abusive corporal punishment does so out of uncontrollable rage," Maier says. "For years, millions of parents have lovingly and intentionally administered mild corporal punishment out of a true desire to raise happy, secure children -- and have been successful." According to Focus on the Family, almost two-thirds of the studies Gershoff reviewed measured only severe corporal punishment -- such as slapping the face, beatings, or hitting with a fist. Despite that, Gershoff uses those results to argue against all forms of corporal punishment. Dr. Walt Larimore is a family physician and vice president of medical outreach for Focus. He disagrees with Gershoff, who told The Washington Post that because of the numerous risks associated with corporal punishment, she can think of no situation where a child should be spanked. "Parents should never discipline their children in anger," Larimore says, "however it is an offensive notion that lovingly administered spanking is tantamount to abuse." Larimore says parents should be outraged to know that their efforts to raise obedient, well-adjusted children have been equated with child abuse. © 2002 AgapePress all rights reserved |
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More Giggles from Fern!!! was Old news:Pro-Family Advocates ThrowLight on 'Anti-Spanking' Study
Fern5827 wrote:
Spanking is not the preferred alternative, but neither is it a straight ticket to hell. Gosh, I have no idea whether or not spanking is "a straight ticket to hell." I thought heaven and hell decisions were made by God. Fortunately, even Canada recognizes the liberty interests parents have in the raising, and rearing of their children, and like the US have affirmed that spanking is legal. Oh my goodness. And within the last two weeks you declared that spanking was illegal in the US and I responded, informing you that this simply wasn't true. Perhaps you read my post and learned that spanking is indeed legal (grin)! The cry babies on this NG were probably beaten because of their persistent, difficult behavior, or because they had not too intelligent parents. Research does indicate that education tends to be inversely correlated with spanking. So what? Chgildren should be beaten and not object "because they had not too intelligent parents?" Good grief, Fern. How idiotic is this logic? Most of them have NOT reproduced. Chris has not. (Founder of this NG--so much of what he posts is simply theory) Most of the "cry babies on this NG" have "NOT reproduced." What a hoot you are, Fern. How do you know who has "reproduced?" Because Chris has not "reproduced" you assume "Most of them have NOT reproduced."? Even funnier is the idea that this should somehow matter. Reproduction is necessary in order to care about children - giggle, giggle, giggle! People who reproduce automatically become child hitting machines because they have reproduced - giggle, giggle, giggle - I can't take more giggles on a Friday afternoon! I wonder if he ever talks to his Mom and it appears his Dad disappeared. You know nothing about Chris's life, but what difference would it make it he talks to his mother or if his father disappeared? Does this mean he has no reason to care about the treatment of little children? Sad..... Yes, it is sad. It is sad that there are people in the world who think hitting and hurting little children in the name of discipline is acceptable. It is sad that there are individuals who think only physical reproduction gives someone a right to care about the lives of children. It is sad that people lie in a vain attempt to make points for their personal child hitting agenda. You are correct, Fern, it is sad. And it's also sad if Chris doesn't talk to his mother and it is sad if his father disappeared. It's sad when parents behave in ways that disrupt the bond one should have in one's family. It's sad when adult children feel the only way to emotionally survive is to cut ties with their family due to how they were treated as children. Your post is a giggle, a hoot, and painful, all at the same time. LaVonne |
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Old news:Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking'Study
Greg,
I'm not an atheist and believe strongly in respectful treatment of children. I believe respectful treatment or children does NOT include physical assault. Raising a hand (with or without an implement) is physical assault when the victim is over the age of 18. The only exception is fear for one's life. Fear a lot of 30 pound toddlers, Greg? Actually, I suspect you do. And the only way you know to parent is by hitting. Read the NT. You may receive a better Biblical perspective. LaVonne Greg Hanson wrote: I did not know that one is automatically pro-family by the simple expedient of being a pro-spanking compulsive. Do you suppose your ATHEISM has any connection to your pro-gay stance or your reference to parents as "bio reproduction units or as the gays refer to them derisively, "breeders"? A pure coincidence, no doubt! |
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Old news:Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study
LaVonne:
You stated you are not an atheist, but you didn't deny anything about gayness. Was that a signal? Are you a member of the man haters club? |
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Old news:Pro-Family Advocates Throw Light on 'Anti-Spanking' Study
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