What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

On Jul 9, 12:07 pm, "0:-]" wrote:
http://www.uwex.edu/CES/flp/pp/pdf/punishmt.pdf

Parenting the Preschooler
Joan E. LeFebvre
Area Family Living Agent
University of Wisconsin-Extension
Vilas, Forest, Florence Counties

What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

Why do parents spank their children? According to
Murray Straus, a national family violence researcher,
the obvious answer is to correct misbehavior. But
another reason is that it's expected of them. In the
United States legal and social norms give parents the
right to use physical punishment to control and train
their children.

When my son, almost 4 years old, does something truly wrong, such as
wantonly hitting his 2-year-old brother, he deserves, and often gets,
a swat on his rear end. I think that teaches not that random hitting
is acceptable but that misbehavior has consequences. "Time-outs" are
often recommended as an alternative to spanking, but how do you
enforce a time-out if the child does not listen? Spanking is a
necessary last resort.

Consider how this would affect the relationship of parents and
their teens, who are often too big to control by physical
force. The only real resource we have with teens is the
bank of goodwill created through parenting over the
years.

Really? In America, middle and upper class parents typically provide
their children a pretty comfortable life. Children owe their parents a
reasonable degree of obedience. Parents can take away some of the
goodies they provide, and in cases of extreme misbehavior, parents can
throw child out of the house. Teenagers need to understand that being
self-supporting is the condition of complete independence of parents'
rules.

"Beliavsky" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 9, 12:07 pm, "0:-]" wrote:
http://www.uwex.edu/CES/flp/pp/pdf/punishmt.pdf

Parenting the Preschooler
Joan E. LeFebvre
Area Family Living Agent
University of Wisconsin-Extension
Vilas, Forest, Florence Counties

What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

Why do parents spank their children? According to
Murray Straus, a national family violence researcher,
the obvious answer is to correct misbehavior. But
another reason is that it's expected of them. In the
United States legal and social norms give parents the
right to use physical punishment to control and train
their children.

When my son, almost 4 years old, does something truly wrong, such as
wantonly hitting his 2-year-old brother, he deserves, and often gets,
a swat on his rear end. I think that teaches not that random hitting
is acceptable but that misbehavior has consequences. "Time-outs" are
often recommended as an alternative to spanking, but how do you
enforce a time-out if the child does not listen? Spanking is a
necessary last resort.



Unfortunately, you miss an opportunity to teach how to *properly* manage his
frustrations or whatever feelings led to the whacking. He may well be
behind the curve when the report card comes home with "manages feelings
effectively."

When the consequence is disconnected from the crime, as punishment
necessariy is, then you risk winding up with a child who associates the
behavior with the punishment rather with its inherent consequences. So
rather than not doing itm, they become careful at doing the undesirably
thing when someone in a position to punish cannot see.


The two books referenced here both have excellent information on how to
teach children appropriately, what Mrs Swift calls investment discipline.
These are 2 great books.

http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Lif...4002232&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Disci...4002301&sr=8-3


Consider how this would affect the relationship of parents and
their teens, who are often too big to control by physical
force. The only real resource we have with teens is the
bank of goodwill created through parenting over the
years.

Really? In America, middle and upper class parents typically provide
their children a pretty comfortable life. Children owe their parents a
reasonable degree of obedience. Parents can take away some of the
goodies they provide, and in cases of extreme misbehavior, parents can
throw child out of the house. Teenagers need to understand that being
self-supporting is the condition of complete independence of parents'
rules.

http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Lif...4002232&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Disci...4002301&sr=8-3


The first book was not on the system. The second was so I have that
coming to me. the local library has NO non fiction books. I also
ordered How To Behave so Your Children Will Too.

Tori

"Tori M" wrote in message
et...

http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Lif...4002232&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Disci...4002301&sr=8-3


The first book was not on the system. The second was so I have that
coming to me. the local library has NO non fiction books. I also ordered
How To Behave so Your Children Will Too.

Tori


What do you mean not on the system? Amazon has it in stock.

Good luck!

"Stephanie" wrote in message
news:4n3li.4679$lY4.2222@trndny07...

"Tori M" wrote in message
et...

http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Lif...4002232&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Disci...4002301&sr=8-3


The first book was not on the system. The second was so I have
that coming to me. the local library has NO non fiction books. I
also ordered How To Behave so Your Children Will Too.

Tori


What do you mean not on the system? Amazon has it in stock.

She meant in her library's system. She's already said she doesn't
want to spend money right now.

I live in a relatively small city, so even though my local library has
something like 7 branches, there are many books they don't have. So I
looked into inter-library loan at one point. It appears that the
library is part of a larger system of libraries, but it's still a
finite amount -- that is, they aren't hooked to every library across
the country, just those in the local region. So it's easy to believe
that there are still a good number of books that would not be
available.

Bizby

"bizby40" wrote in message
. ..

"Stephanie" wrote in message
news:4n3li.4679$lY4.2222@trndny07...

"Tori M" wrote in message
et...

http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Lif...4002232&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Disci...4002301&sr=8-3


The first book was not on the system. The second was so I have that
coming to me. the local library has NO non fiction books. I also
ordered How To Behave so Your Children Will Too.

Tori


What do you mean not on the system? Amazon has it in stock.

She meant in her library's system. She's already said she doesn't want to
spend money right now.


Thats is why I was confused. Well one reason! I am terminally confused.

I live in a relatively small city, so even though my local library has
something like 7 branches, there are many books they don't have. So I
looked into inter-library loan at one point. It appears that the library
is part of a larger system of libraries, but it's still a finite amount --
that is, they aren't hooked to every library across the country, just
those in the local region. So it's easy to believe that there are still a
good number of books that would not be available.

Bizby

I hear you.

Stephanie wrote:
"Tori M" wrote in message
et...
http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Lif...4002232&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Disci...4002301&sr=8-3

The first book was not on the system. The second was so I have that
coming to me. the local library has NO non fiction books. I also ordered
How To Behave so Your Children Will Too.

Tori


What do you mean not on the system? Amazon has it in stock.

Good luck!


I can not afford a 25$ book right now. It is not on the interlibrary
website.

Tori

Beliavsky schrieb:
On Jul 9, 12:07 pm, "0:-]" wrote:
http://www.uwex.edu/CES/flp/pp/pdf/punishmt.pdf

Parenting the Preschooler
Joan E. LeFebvre
Area Family Living Agent
University of Wisconsin-Extension
Vilas, Forest, Florence Counties

What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

Why do parents spank their children? According to
Murray Straus, a national family violence researcher,
the obvious answer is to correct misbehavior. But
another reason is that it's expected of them. In the
United States legal and social norms give parents the
right to use physical punishment to control and train
their children.

When my son, almost 4 years old, does something truly wrong, such as
wantonly hitting his 2-year-old brother, he deserves, and often gets,
a swat on his rear end. I think that teaches not that random hitting
is acceptable but that misbehavior has consequences. "Time-outs" are
often recommended as an alternative to spanking, but how do you
enforce a time-out if the child does not listen? Spanking is a
necessary last resort.

Ok, so you're trying to teach your kid not to hit by hitting him? And
this is going to work how?
If your son, at age 4, already doesn't listen to you giving him a time
out there's already a much bigger problem right there. Also, how do you
punish him if he doesn't just hit his brother, what if it escalates? Do
you hit harder? Do you hit more than once? Are you going to grab a
wooden spoon or make him get a twig? When do you stop and what do you do
then?
You're very right, spanking is a last resort, because there's nothing to
top it.

Consider how this would affect the relationship of parents and
their teens, who are often too big to control by physical
force. The only real resource we have with teens is the
bank of goodwill created through parenting over the
years.

Really? In America, middle and upper class parents typically provide
their children a pretty comfortable life. Children owe their parents a
reasonable degree of obedience. Parents can take away some of the
goodies they provide, and in cases of extreme misbehavior, parents can
throw child out of the house. Teenagers need to understand that being
self-supporting is the condition of complete independence of parents'
rules.

No, I'm pretty sure, that even in the USA parents can't just throw a
child out of the house. I'm very sure it's not just a german thing that
you can't just move out of the custody of your parents or guardian
before you're 18.

I also don't think children _owe_ their parents respect and obedience. I
think we owe our children a supportive home and we owe them a violence
free upbringing. And then we can hope that our children will respect us
and our rules.

cu
nicole

"NL" wrote in message
...
Beliavsky schrieb:
On Jul 9, 12:07 pm, "0:-]" wrote:
http://www.uwex.edu/CES/flp/pp/pdf/punishmt.pdf

Parenting the Preschooler
Joan E. LeFebvre
Area Family Living Agent
University of Wisconsin-Extension
Vilas, Forest, Florence Counties

What the Research Says About Physical Punishment

Why do parents spank their children? According to
Murray Straus, a national family violence researcher,
the obvious answer is to correct misbehavior. But
another reason is that it's expected of them. In the
United States legal and social norms give parents the
right to use physical punishment to control and train
their children.

When my son, almost 4 years old, does something truly wrong, such as
wantonly hitting his 2-year-old brother, he deserves, and often gets,
a swat on his rear end. I think that teaches not that random hitting
is acceptable but that misbehavior has consequences. "Time-outs" are
often recommended as an alternative to spanking, but how do you
enforce a time-out if the child does not listen? Spanking is a
necessary last resort.

Ok, so you're trying to teach your kid not to hit by hitting him? And this
is going to work how?
If your son, at age 4, already doesn't listen to you giving him a time out
there's already a much bigger problem right there. Also, how do you punish
him if he doesn't just hit his brother, what if it escalates? Do you hit
harder? Do you hit more than once? Are you going to grab a wooden spoon or
make him get a twig? When do you stop and what do you do then?
You're very right, spanking is a last resort, because there's nothing to
top it.

Consider how this would affect the relationship of parents and
their teens, who are often too big to control by physical
force. The only real resource we have with teens is the
bank of goodwill created through parenting over the
years.

Really? In America, middle and upper class parents typically provide
their children a pretty comfortable life. Children owe their parents a
reasonable degree of obedience. Parents can take away some of the
goodies they provide, and in cases of extreme misbehavior, parents can
throw child out of the house. Teenagers need to understand that being
self-supporting is the condition of complete independence of parents'
rules.

No, I'm pretty sure, that even in the USA parents can't just throw a child
out of the house. I'm very sure it's not just a german thing that you
can't just move out of the custody of your parents or guardian before
you're 18.

I also don't think children _owe_ their parents respect and obedience. I
think we owe our children a supportive home and we owe them a violence
free upbringing. And then we can hope that our children will respect us
and our rules.

cu
nicole

I dont think obedience is even a useful goal to have for your child. I
prefer to teach judgement.

I dont think obedience is even a useful goal to have for your child. I
prefer to teach judgement.



I prefer that they obey until they learn judgment. There are rules for a
reason. If I tell my kids not to run in the road in front of cars I
would prefer they obey because the natural consequence of being hit by a
car is not something I am willing to risk. The whole talk to them and
eventually they will just do what is right because you talked their ear
off is bull.

Actually the consequence in my house for them not listening to me is we
don't go outside. They can not run into the road if I don't take them
out to play.

Tori