What is a Father?

What is a father?

I got into an argument with my dad a few months ago and I suspect I'll
being getting into another argument with him tomorrow (not
intentionally). (I suppose I should point out that I'm 21 years old.)
It seems that it's alright for him to treat me crappy but I can't or
shouldn't treat him that way. He said that I should treat him with
respect because he's my father. I told him that just because he
impregnated my mom, that it doesn't make him my father and that if he
really is my father then he should act like it. This only seemed to
p*ss him off more and he thinks I got this from watching too much TV.
I told him that he doesn't treat his father with respect but he says
that's different because his father used to beat him as a child. I
told him that he's emotionally and verbally abusive to me and asked
him what's the difference between that and his father beating him and
of course he got mad and yelled at me even more.

For the past 10 years, I can't remember my dad ever taking an interest
in my life unless it was to tell me I'm grounded or yell at me just
because he was angry and felt like yelling at someone. He knows
nothing about me except that I like donuts, pizza and rootbeer, but
who doesn't? He barely even knows how old I am. We've lived together
our entire lives so you'd think he know something important about me,
but he doesn't. I know things about him like his likes and dislikes. I
remember a few times when I was 13, that he told me he was going to
take me fishing but he never took me. He never tried to talk to me or
do things with me. My mom tells me that when I was little like four
years old, that he used to do things with me all the time but I don't
remember.


So I want to know, what is a father? Anyone with sperm can create a
baby but does that mean that they're a father? Was I wrong to say
those things to my dad?

In article ,
(Mike) wrote:

What is a father?

I got into an argument with my dad a few months ago and I suspect I'll
being getting into another argument with him tomorrow (not
intentionally). (I suppose I should point out that I'm 21 years old.)
It seems that it's alright for him to treat me crappy but I can't or
shouldn't treat him that way. He said that I should treat him with
respect because he's my father. I told him that just because he
impregnated my mom, that it doesn't make him my father and that if he
really is my father then he should act like it. This only seemed to
p*ss him off more and he thinks I got this from watching too much TV.
I told him that he doesn't treat his father with respect but he says
that's different because his father used to beat him as a child. I
told him that he's emotionally and verbally abusive to me and asked
him what's the difference between that and his father beating him and
of course he got mad and yelled at me even more.

For the past 10 years, I can't remember my dad ever taking an interest
in my life unless it was to tell me I'm grounded or yell at me just
because he was angry and felt like yelling at someone. He knows
nothing about me except that I like donuts, pizza and rootbeer, but
who doesn't? He barely even knows how old I am. We've lived together
our entire lives so you'd think he know something important about me,
but he doesn't. I know things about him like his likes and dislikes. I
remember a few times when I was 13, that he told me he was going to
take me fishing but he never took me. He never tried to talk to me or
do things with me. My mom tells me that when I was little like four
years old, that he used to do things with me all the time but I don't
remember.


So I want to know, what is a father? Anyone with sperm can create a
baby but does that mean that they're a father? Was I wrong to say
those things to my dad?

It depends. What is your goal? To prove that you're right? To develop
a decent relationship with him? To make him change how he treats you?
To get even with him for something he did 8 years ago? To **** him off
and prove that he can't control you?

As far as what a father is, that's the guy that raised you -- whether he
did a good job of it or not. So, yes, he's your father. If you want
to "divorce" him -- well, you can probably do that, but it might be a
good idea to move out so he's not supporting you first.

meh
having my OWN problems with my father this week -- and I'm 52!
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Mike wrote:

So I want to know, what is a father?

The person that raised you. Some do a better job then others.

Was I wrong to say
those things to my dad?

Depends on what you want.

If you want to build a relationship with him then I'd say you shouldn't say
those things but just start building a relationship.

If you want to get things off your chest in a therapeutic way then I suppose
you maybe accomplished that? It doesn't really sound like you feel any
better though. I'd suggest writing a well thought out letter if this is
your goal. You may not even need to give it to him.

If you are looking for some sort of apology or acknowledgement of wrong
doings from him then you are most likely wasting your breath and making the
relationship worse.

If you are just arguing for no reason what is the point? You are 21 - just
don't get into it. Live your own life. If you are living at home with him,
consider getting your own place - things will likely improve a bit after
that. Don't ask for approval or for help, just be your own adult.

Move past the father/daughter as a child relationship and move into the
father/daughter as an adult relationship and you'll likely all be much
happier. It is a weird transition but IME it is much better on the
adult/adult level. When I was in a similar position as you I chose to move
the relationship along to the adult/adult side and I've never been sorry.
My brother was not able to (or did not choose to) do that and they have no
relationship at all today and that is very very sad. I believe with all my
heart that he will regret that some day and probably already does.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (5) and Luke (3)

(Mike) wrote in message . com...
What is a father?


....An imperfect human being that makes just as many mistakes as the
next person. With that said, it should also be somebody that is
looking out (or has looked out) for your best interests. I'm knocking
on 40 and am very happy to say my father is also my friend - I grew up
in tough times, but he was always there for me - although I could not
see this fact until later. AND he is the best darn "Pop" that my
child could dream of having. I can't say if you were correct in
saying those things or not. I will say, though, that respect is not a
birth right - it must be earned on BOTH sides. Just keep in mind that
as you reflect on your father's relationship with his father, so too
will your child should you eventually have one. It is easy to be
critical of your parents, but it is also very difficult to understand
how much they did for you until you have a child of your own. Some
fathers are very quiet, some put all of their energy in providing a
roof over your head and food on the table, some spend as much time as
possible with their children. Every person and every circumstance is
different. At 21, most people do not have a good understanding of
resposibility, not just for oneself, but for other people. Please
understand that I am not being critical of you, just pointing out a
common aspect in our society.

I have also volunteered in the Big Brother/Big Sister Program for many
years and am fully aware that some people are better off without their
biological father in their life.

"dragonlady" gave some good advice - think about those questions and
see where it leads. Good luck!

I'm reallly not sure why you are argueing with your father, you didn't say.
I've been 21 once to, and again, I don't know how old your father is or what
kind of relationship you have ever had with him. If he wasn't there for
you for a reason, such as being away for work or separation from your
mother, it's different then him just not caring. Has it only been over the
last 10 years that he has beeen not interested in your life ?

Having said all that, I was once 11 and I was once 21. My father and I
were never close, we didn't get along once I got into my teens and wanted
some independance. I remember him playing with me in the back yard or in
the house, and I also remember me telling him to F off ...... Now I am
29 and he has been gone for 5 years, I miss him. He was only looking out
for me, and trying to protect me from getting hurt. As far as how
you shoud treat him..you shouldn't treat him like crap, take what he says
and agree to disagree, don't pick a fight with him, but don't avoid it
either... the world would be a boring place if everyone agreed all the time,
and there was no difference of opinion.

A father is still a father even if he doesn't care. He will always be
a father..... it doesn't mean he has to be good at it, or like it, or ever
see you but he is a father if he has made a baby.

Karen




"Mike" wrote in message
om...
What is a father?

I got into an argument with my dad a few months ago and I suspect I'll
being getting into another argument with him tomorrow (not
intentionally). (I suppose I should point out that I'm 21 years old.)
It seems that it's alright for him to treat me crappy but I can't or
shouldn't treat him that way. He said that I should treat him with
respect because he's my father. I told him that just because he
impregnated my mom, that it doesn't make him my father and that if he
really is my father then he should act like it. This only seemed to
p*ss him off more and he thinks I got this from watching too much TV.
I told him that he doesn't treat his father with respect but he says
that's different because his father used to beat him as a child. I
told him that he's emotionally and verbally abusive to me and asked
him what's the difference between that and his father beating him and
of course he got mad and yelled at me even more.

For the past 10 years, I can't remember my dad ever taking an interest
in my life unless it was to tell me I'm grounded or yell at me just
because he was angry and felt like yelling at someone. He knows
nothing about me except that I like donuts, pizza and rootbeer, but
who doesn't? He barely even knows how old I am. We've lived together
our entire lives so you'd think he know something important about me,
but he doesn't. I know things about him like his likes and dislikes. I
remember a few times when I was 13, that he told me he was going to
take me fishing but he never took me. He never tried to talk to me or
do things with me. My mom tells me that when I was little like four
years old, that he used to do things with me all the time but I don't
remember.


So I want to know, what is a father? Anyone with sperm can create a
baby but does that mean that they're a father? Was I wrong to say
those things to my dad?

"Nikki" wrote in message
...
Move past the father/daughter as a child relationship and move into the
father/daughter as an adult relationship and you'll likely all be much
happier. It is a weird transition but IME it is much better on the
adult/adult level. When I was in a similar position as you I chose to
move
the relationship along to the adult/adult side and I've never been sorry.
My brother was not able to (or did not choose to) do that and they have no
relationship at all today and that is very very sad. I believe with all
my
heart that he will regret that some day and probably already does.

A relationship has 2 sides, no? How does one move the relationship from
parent/child to adult/adult if the parent refuses to see the child as an
adult?

In article OKBkc.5582$I%1.454312@attbi_s51,
"toypup" wrote:

"Nikki" wrote in message
...
Move past the father/daughter as a child relationship and move into the
father/daughter as an adult relationship and you'll likely all be much
happier. It is a weird transition but IME it is much better on the
adult/adult level. When I was in a similar position as you I chose to
move
the relationship along to the adult/adult side and I've never been sorry.
My brother was not able to (or did not choose to) do that and they have no
relationship at all today and that is very very sad. I believe with all
my
heart that he will regret that some day and probably already does.

A relationship has 2 sides, no? How does one move the relationship from
parent/child to adult/adult if the parent refuses to see the child as an
adult?



It is amazing to me, sometimes, what simply starting to act as though
the other person HAD changed will accomplish! When you change the steps
you are doing to the dance, the other person has to change their steps,
too -- though sometimes it may not be what you expect.

Some of the things you can do unilaterally include, for example,
establishing financial independance and turning down help from your
parents (we did this when we insisted on putting DH's car insurance in
HIS name when we got married -- until then, his parents had always paid
it.) You can do that even if you are living at home, by paying some
portion of the bills. One of the things I started to do was pick up
groceries whenever I was home visiting. (Easier for me in some ways,
because I didn't live at home after I was 19 -- but I've watched
siblings behave like adults living at home, so I know it can be done.)

Even if you are still financially dependent upon your parents (for
example, if they've agreed to support you through school) there are ways
of behaving like a child and ways of behaving like a grown up.

You can start doing some of the chores around the house, without being
asked. Asking what you can do to help if you can't see it yourself.
Behaving as though you SHARE responsiblity for getting household chores
done, instead of as though you are helping them with THEIR household
chores.

You can act towards your parents the way you want them to treat you:
for example, telling them when you'll be home and where you are going
(yes, I think that's the way adults treat each other when they live
together) -- and asking the same when they go out in the evening.

You start noticing things they do for you, and try to reciprocate -- and
try to do things for them, too.

You notice what is important in their lives, show an intereste and ask
questions.

You don't pick fights with them -- and if they start to pick fights with
you, you stay calm and reasonable. Not easy -- hell, I lost that one
last week, both with my 21 yo daughter AND with my 72 yo father! -- but
you at least TRY.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"Steve S" wrote in message
critical of your parents, but it is also very difficult to understand
how much they did for you until you have a child of your own.

Strangely, my mom told me this. I waited all my life to see if it was true.
I really believed her until I had my own kids. Then, the total opposite
happened. Now that I have kids, I can't understand her at all. She did
things that were emotionally cruel, but being a kid, I just thought it was
normal. Now that I look at my kids I just can't see how she did it.

My dad, OTOH, it so surprises me how much more I respect him. He and my mom
went through a divorce. My mom badmouthed him and he knew it. Yet, he kept
his mouth shut, never said anything negative about her, tried to get my
brother and her to get along better. All the while, he was fighting and
arguing with her. I went through a horrible phase with him. I was the
worst kid he could ever have, and he told me even then that he loved me no
matter what. Would my mom have done that? No. She would have disowned me
instantly. I didn't appreciate it at the time, but I do now. What he
showed me was true, unconditional love and that's what I'd like to emulate
for my kids.

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
It is amazing to me, sometimes, what simply starting to act as though
the other person HAD changed will accomplish! When you change the steps
you are doing to the dance, the other person has to change their steps,
too -- though sometimes it may not be what you expect.

You start noticing things they do for you, and try to reciprocate -- and
try to do things for them, too.

You notice what is important in their lives, show an intereste and ask
questions.

You don't pick fights with them -- and if they start to pick fights with
you, you stay calm and reasonable. Not easy -- hell, I lost that one
last week, both with my 21 yo daughter AND with my 72 yo father! -- but
you at least TRY.

Good advice. I pretty much did all that (move out, financial independence,
etc.), with the exception of staying calm and reasonable. I'm not good at
that, but I really try. I'm not sure how much effect it had, but I think
things would probably be worse if I didn't do all that. They still treat me
like a kid, but maybe that's how things are. My dad told me once, no matter
how old I am, I'm supposed to obey him, like he would obey his own parents
(but they weren't around for that to happen).

toypup wrote:
"Nikki" wrote in message
...
Move past the father/daughter as a child relationship and move into
the father/daughter as an adult relationship and you'll likely all
be much happier. It is a weird transition but IME it is much better
on the adult/adult level. When I was in a similar position as you I
chose to move the relationship along to the adult/adult side and
I've never been sorry. My brother was not able to (or did not choose
to) do that and they have no relationship at all today and that is
very very sad. I believe with all my heart that he will regret that
some day and probably already does.

A relationship has 2 sides, no? How does one move the relationship
from parent/child to adult/adult if the parent refuses to see the
child as an adult?

I had a long rambling post but decided against posting it :-)

Basically I think it is about establishing both financial and emotional
independence. Also, the OP cannot move into an adult relationship until
he lets the past go. They can't go back and build a close and involved
history. His father can never ever fulfill that longing and that is a
recipe for continued strife in the relationship. They can only move forward
with what they have, which is hopefully two decent people that are
experiencing some growing pains.
--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (5) and Luke (3)