What does breastfeeding advocacy mean to you?

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Mum of Two wrote:
There is a lot of debate raging on parenting bulletin boards about
breastfeeding advocacy, how it should be done, why it's necessary, if
it's
necessary etc. It seems like a lot of people are offended by BF advocacy
itself - or what they perceive it to be - and as such there is a bit of a
backlash against it.

I find it funny that there should be distinguishable advocists and
non-advocists of BF. I have never met anyone who, parent or not, who
has ever been against BF or hasn't accepted that 'breast is best'. What
I think is the problem is a matter of personalities.

I think it's more of a sliding scale, rather 'advocate or not'. Some people
claim to advocate breastfeeding, but suggest formula at the first sign of a
problem or once the baby gets teeth, turns six months, for example. I
wouldn't class them as breastfeeding advocates, any more than I would class
formula companies as breastfeeding advocates, though they too have a 'breast
is best' message printed on their tins, and breastfeeding information on
their websites. But I guess they are advocates when compared to someone who
comes up to a nursing mother in a cafe and tells her to cover herself up or
leave.

Some, I guess you
might call them advocists, to me seem to have difficulty in accepting
that not all mothers either have the iron will to continue bf'ing if
they have problems, or they just don't see formula as the complete evil
that 'advocists' seem to portray it as.

Personally, I don't believe formula is 'evil', I think there is a clear need
for quality infant formula. Sometimes the way it is marketed _is_ evil,
though. I would not tell a mother to supplement with formula, because I
think that would detract from breastfeeding advocacy, but if she did for
whatever reason - FTT, breast reduction, phenylketonuria, personal reasons -
I wouldn't try to make her feel bad for her choice. That isn't, IMO, what BF
advocacy is about.

This usually leads to one
feeling the other is judging them for their choice - whether it was
made lightly or with great regret. When I had trouble with bf it was my
bloody-mindedness that got me through. The good useful mw's and hv's
were the ones that offered no judgement but heaps of explanation,
encourgament and solutions. They told me why ds wasn't feeding well,
what I could do to help and that I was doing well to get through it.
People aren't robots, they need encouragement sometimes, even if the
thing they are trying to do is the most natural and right thing in the
world. The ones that made me feel like pants were the ones that told me
'so and so's baby is far worse than yours' or 'you just have to toughen
up'. That may have been true but it didn't help one bit. I did feel
judged and I felt terrible the two nights I gave ds formula to let a
split nipple heal. But it was my inate knowledge that bf is best that
got me through, not someone making me feel guilty. This guilt aspect is
probably what people have a problem with.

Guilt is never a productive emotion, and I'm shocked at some of the things
that were said to you. Guilt is usually something people put upon
themselves, though it can stem from comments like the ones you received and
lead to defensiveness. I was fortunate enough to have mostly wonderful
nurses at the hospital where I delivered, who actually went out of their way
to make me feel as though I was doing a good job, and that I was justified
in feeling tearful and dead on my feet.
People who make comments like the ones you described are not really BF
advocates either. They are people who have been in their jobs too long. My
dentist was like that, so I switched. He admonished me for scrubbing, and
said I'd have receding gums for the rest of my life even if I changed how I
brushed. Way to help someone, lol.

I agree there is a problem with conflicting advice, but if I had only
had the horrible mw's who made me feel guilty then the chances are I
might not be bf'ing now because they were actually no help at all. I
have a friend who tried for 6 weeks to bf and even now, 16 years later,
I can see this upsets her. She has a wonderedful daughter who has no
problems related to formula whatsoever - she should feel proud that on
her own she raised a great girl but I bet even now some people would
still judge her harshly. It makes me sad.

I think your friend should be proud too - there are other aspects of
parenting, and none of us is perfect. And after all, you can't change the
past. Why would someone judge her? I think our culture is responsible for
poor breastfeeding rates, not your friend. It isn't just about individual
women and whether they tried hard enough - it's about mothers, sisters,
aunts, health professionals, legislation, working environments, education,
advertising and commercialism. Playing the blame game doesn't get anyone
anywhere.


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

"Cuddlefish" wrote in message
news:RtNbf.432195$1i.154769@pd7tw2no...
wrote:

I find it funny that there should be distinguishable advocists and
non-advocists of BF. I have never met anyone who, parent or not, who
has ever been against BF or hasn't accepted that 'breast is best'. What
I think is the problem is a matter of personalities.

These people tend to be a generation or so back when formula was
considered the best method for feeding baby, and breastfeeding was not as
common nor supported as strongly. Fortunately, this attitude is dying out,
but as many of those that have this attitude are our mothers and
grandmothers, it is still sticking around. I doubt it is simply a
personality thing.

When I was having difficulty breastfeeding, the community health nurse and
doctors did not suggest at all I give up nor convert to formula. However,
my sister in law, 10 years ago was advised just the opposite. By the time
her third child was born, attitudes had shifted, and she nursed her DD
until 2 years of age.

Shifting attitudes certainly play a big part. Hospitals are slowly changing
too, but there are some traditionalists. Some appalling things used to go
on. My mother was seriously ill after the birth of her third with
pancreatitis, and my sister roomed in with her for a while despite that by
then she was bottlefeeding. My sister got gastroenteritis, and my mother
later found out why - the hospital didn't have a bottle brush, since she was
no longer in the maternity ward.


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

I got turned off by some of what I would call the bad examples of advocacy
when I was learning about it all those years ago. The thing that bothered
me was that for some it was not about just breastfeeding. It was about AP
lifestyle. I would be sitting at the LLL meetings nursing my babe, and
felt like I needed to go to prison when I confessed that my son slept in a
crib because co-sleeping had not worked for us. There seem to be a whole
host of parenting things that get wrapped up in breastfeeding advocay. I
think it would be more effective if it was left to breastfeeding. That's
not to say that suggestiong co-sleeping, baby wearing or whatever as a
possible solution to a given problem. But I often felt it difficult to
speak to my LLL group because they were so AP that I was a freak.

I think that is why LLL as an organisation works so hard to keep themselves
single-issue. Leaders should really be redirecting the conversation and
pointing out that LLL doesn't have policies on anything other than BF. It is
difficult when you get a group of mothers who are mostly in agreement on a
number of issues, so that the one or two who aren't feel singled out. It
depends very much on the group, although LLL's stance is the same.
Here in the group I belong to, we have some mothers who started early
solids, some mothers who co-sleep, some mothers who partially BF due to
medical conditions, and some mothers who let their babies eat the
chocolates. I never felt singled out for having DD in her own room at an
early age. We all seem to like hummus, but I'm the only vegetarian! I'm
sorry you were made to feel inferior.

Also, I found when I was learning that the emphasis on how Hard it can be
stressed me out to such a degree that I think I made it harder than it had
to be. I don't think there is a solution to this since information has to
be available to those people who are having a hard time. But when I was
reading some of my books, and talking to the LLL, the whole It's So
HAAAARD thing got me down. As did the not very veiled and we are so
superior for having overcome.

I got this at the hospital. DD and I had a pretty easy time of it, other
than the second night in which she fed constantly and I ended up with
bleeding nipples that lasted about a week. But honestly, I still think our
experience was pretty straightforward. She had plenty of wet naps, she
wasn't reluctant to feed, and I was determined and confident that I could do
it. The hospital however was paranoid. They kept telling me that they needed
to check her latch, but of course being that she was a newborn, I would
struggle to reach the buzzer and feed her at the same time, and by the time
they got there she would have finished. A couple of them got frsutrated with
me and I found someone had written in my notes "Saw father holding baby in
corridor. Evidence of milk around mouth". I found this hilarious, because DD
was not prem or high risk and she never even dropped from her birthweight
that I can recall. I think it might have been the same nurse who
interrogated me as to why I needed Ural sachets when I hadn't had stitches
;-)


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

Wow we had nothing like that with our two kids. It must be different
geographically. With DS (1st kid) we had a terrible time with latching. I
went home from the hospital late on a friday afternoon (dumb). After 2
days of DS not eating, I called the ped in tears. He sent the VNA over.
She looked at the latch and gave me a nipple shield *with very strict
instructions that I must go to the peds office to see the lactation
consultant first thing Monday morning.* When I feared I would lose it over
the weekend, DH went to the hospital, and they would not give him one
until he explained and explained and told them that we had an appointment
with the LC at 8:00 Monday morning.

different countries, I'm in the UK, lactation consultants are very very rare
(I think there may only be one in the entire country), most helpers are
voluntary and qualified as breastfeeding counsellors.

Anne

Anne Rogers wrote:
bloody-mindedness that got me through. The good useful mw's and hv's
were the ones that offered no judgement but heaps of explanation,
encourgament and solutions. They told me why ds wasn't feeding well,
what I could do to help and that I was doing well to get through it.

That's really great, mine were similar, but then I can also see that had I
not been bloody minded and actually known what questions to ask when I
needed help that they would also have offered no judgement if I had talked
about giving formula. So had I phrased the question, "breastfeeding is
hurting, should I give her formula?" the reply would likely have been yes,
do you have bottles, do you know how to make it up correctly etc. whereas if
I had said "breastfeeding is hurting, any idea how I can fix that? would
have got a good and helpful answer.

I can't really say how they would have reacted tbh. But, I think the
good ones would have probably made sure they had suggested *everything*
that could help and only then would they have supported me if I had
still wanted to give up because it hurt. But who knows.

Can I ask who your community midwife was?

It's dreadful but I can only remember her name as Ailsa (and I don't
think I've spelt that right either Scottish lady, very nice. The
other two great ones were Linda and Jane (who was brilliant). I think
I've blotted out in my head the name of the one I didn't like and the
other was one at the Rosie so I don't think I even knew hers.

Jeni

Anne Rogers wrote:

different countries, I'm in the UK, lactation consultants are very very rare
(I think there may only be one in the entire country), most helpers are
voluntary and qualified as breastfeeding counsellors.

Hyperbole? ilca.org lists 37 IBCLCs in the UK, and that's not counting
LCs who've been through different sorts of certification.

Lara

Hyperbole? ilca.org lists 37 IBCLCs in the UK, and that's not counting
LCs who've been through different sorts of certification.

37 is not all that different to 1 in a country of 60 million people, I very
much doubt there are any by other methods of certification as all other UK
methods of certification result in counsellor, not consultant, so they are
not so highly qualified. Also there is no culture of paying for them, as we
have free healthcare, we take generally take what is given and lactation
consultants aren't. Even a big hospital like ours has just one part time
breastfeeding person.

Anne

Personally, I don't believe formula is 'evil', I think there is a clear
need for quality infant formula. Sometimes the way it is marketed _is_
evil, though. I would not tell a mother to supplement with formula,
because I think that would detract from breastfeeding advocacy, but if
she did for whatever reason - FTT, breast reduction, phenylketonuria,
personal reasons - I wouldn't try to make her feel bad for her choice.
That isn't, IMO, what BF advocacy is about.

this is what leads me to think that perhaps formula milk only being
available on prescription would be a good thing, but then people would end
up substituting with something worse, so it doesn't work either way.

Anne

I agree with Anne - all the breastfeeding counsellors/advisers I have come
across have been voluntary, with the exception of people like midwives or
health visitors who do it in addition to their main job. The lady who runs
the breastfeeding clinic in the main hospital in Oxford is employed by the
NHS trust, but she does lots of other things too like running the Milk Bank
and training new counsellors/supporters.
Morag

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...

Hyperbole? ilca.org lists 37 IBCLCs in the UK, and that's not counting
LCs who've been through different sorts of certification.

37 is not all that different to 1 in a country of 60 million people, I
very much doubt there are any by other methods of certification as all
other UK methods of certification result in counsellor, not consultant, so
they are not so highly qualified. Also there is no culture of paying for
them, as we have free healthcare, we take generally take what is given and
lactation consultants aren't. Even a big hospital like ours has just one
part time breastfeeding person.

Anne

Mum of Two wrote:
There is a lot of debate raging on parenting bulletin boards about
breastfeeding advocacy, how it should be done, why it's necessary, if it's
necessary etc. It seems like a lot of people are offended by BF advocacy
itself - or what they perceive it to be - and as such there is a bit of a
backlash against it.

With breastfeeding rates so low, advocacy is necessary.

First, I think the best way to advocate breastfeeding is to do it, do
it in public, and correct people's misperceptions if mentioned. I think
it is awesome when public figures talk in a casual way about their
breastfeeding -- like it or not celebrities have a lot of sway with
people and hearing them mention nursing their babies on talk shows etc
can go a long way to convincing women to also give it a try. We need to
see it in movies, on TV etc. Normalise it by any means necessary, I
say!

Second, governments need to get behind this. Public health departments
need resources to promote breastfeeding before women give birth and
provide trained support afterwards. Clinics need to be made available.
Did you know that Dr. Jack Newman's clinic here in Toronto is slated to
be shut down? It is run out of a hospital and the government claims
that hospital space & resources are at a premium and this service
should be provided elsewhere in the community. An advocacy program
cannot be effective without an organized attempt to pressure government
for more resources, and especially longer protected maternity leaves
for women.

Aside from women who do it, I think another group of ideal advocates
for breastfeeding should be pediatricians. When the pediatricians
examine the infants after birth they should take a minute to discuss
feeding with parents. If formula is the first choice I think they
should spend a bit of time discussing the cons of that choice with the
parents. In downtown Toronto hospitals at least, post-partum staff are
known for being somewhat aggressive about breastfeeding, but at the end
of the day 95% of women BF in hospital.

Personally I think by the time a woman has started using formula it is
likely too late; I think it is terrible and pointless that someone
would accost a woman buying formula. It is pre-baby that people need
to think of BF as the default, and have resources in their communities
to back up their efforts.

Elle