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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
By:
Joan B. Kelly, Ph. D. The determination of which parent should have custody of the children in a divorce proceeding has become increasingly problematic in the past several decades. As clear legal rules have been replaced by less well-defined standards for making such decisions, and as societal norms have de-emphasized gender-linked differences in the workplace and within the family, uncertainty about the appropriate role of each parent in the child's life after divorce has increased. Without clear legal rules, the consideration of children's needs has been forced to the forefront in the decision-making process, and the determination of parent custody after divorce has become an unpredictable and highly charged emotional issue for parents. This article reviews the history of child custody decision-making, and describes current custodial arrangements in the United States. The manner in which parents and courts make decisions about custody and access, and changes in visiting patterns in recent decades are examined. The impact of reforms in the law, and the implementation of newer dispute resolution and educational interventions are discussed, and recommendations for policy and practice suggested. Custody Decision Making in Historical Context In Roman, and later in English common law, children were viewed as the property of the father, who had a legal obligation to protect, support and educate his children. Fathers had the right as well to sell their children, and to enter them into enforced labor. In divorce, until the mid-nineteenth century, fathers had a near absolute right to custody, regardless of circumstances. Several major historical trends converged to weaken this paternal presumption in the late 1800's, including society's increasing focus on children's welfare, and the effects of the industrial revolution. As fathers increasingly sought work beyond the farm or village, mothers remained at home as primary caretakers. The resultant division of family responsibilities into wage earner and child nurturer influenced subsequent custody decisions. The paternal preference was gradually replaced by a maternal preference, based on the "tender years" presumption. The tender years doctrine (intended to apply to children under age 6) was originally invoked to determine temporary custody arrangements in English law, giving mothers custody of infants only until they were ready to be returned to the father. But by the 1920's, the maternal preference for custody in English and American law, regardless of the child's age, became as firmly fixed as the earlier paternal preference, and was encoded in statute in all 48 states. The assumption that mothers were better suited to nurture and raise children received an intellectual underpinning in the 1930's from Freudian psychoanalytic theory, which focused exclusively on the mother-child relationship, and ignored the role of the father in the child's development. The resulting idealization of motherhood was often reflected in custody decision-making, as in this 1938 Missouri judicial opinion: "There is but a twilight zone between a mother's love and the atmosphere of heaven." The maternal presumption for custody remained firm for many decades in the United States, challenged only after the divorce rate began its dramatic rise in the 1960's. Spurred on by fathers' claims of sex discrimination in custody decisions, constitutional concerns for equal protection, the feminist movement, and the entry of large numbers of women into the workforce, most states had substituted the standard of the "best interests of the child" for the tender years presumption by the mid 1970's. For the first time in history, custody decision-making was to be rooted in a consideration of the child's needs and interests, rather than based simply on the gender of the parent. This historic shift to the best interest standard prepared the path for the next trend, that of joint custody after divorce. Rather than awarding sole custody to one parent and limited visiting rights to the other, joint custody was intended to preserve the parental role and status of both parents after separation by enabling continued parental involvement after divorce. The concept of joint custody emerged originally from a groundswell of voices of fathers in the early 1970's who objected to being disenfranchised from their parental roles and rights, simply because divorce had occurred. The growing interest in shared custody was enhanced by several parallel developments. After focusing almost exclusively on mothers and children for decades, the child development field began, in the early 1970's, to study the father's contributions to the development of the child. Second, gender roles within families began to shift, as larger numbers of fathers participated more fully in child-rearing responsibilities, particularly in dual-career families. At divorce, many such fathers insisted on a greater role in their children's lives after divorce. And third, as divorce engaged the attention of the nation, numerous research and clinical studies documented the sense of loss and alienation experienced by fathers and children in traditional custody arrangements after divorce. These converging trends, amplified by the fact that more than one million children were involved in divorce each year, resulted in pressure to pass new laws permitting joint custody as a viable option for post-divorce custodial status. In 1979, the first joint custody statute was enacted in California, followed by Kansas, and Oregon. By 1991, more than 40 states had shared parenting statutes in which joint custody was either an option or preference, and most other states had recognized the concept of joint custody in case law. The effect of such legislation has been to create gradual change in the attitudes of parents, lawyers, mental health professionals, and judges regarding parental involvement after divorce. Among parents, for example, gender differences found in satisfaction with joint custody in the early 80's, appear to be diminishing as mothers indicate more acceptance of shared residential arrangements a decade later. Debate continues, however, regarding the appropriateness of joint custody for some parents, and whether it has a deleterious or positive effect on the economic and psychological well-being of children. Type and Incidence of Custody Arrangements Nearly all states have distinguished in their legislation, either explicitly or implicitly, between legal and physical custody. Legal custody refers to the parental right to make major decisions regarding the child's health, education, and welfare. Physical custody refers to the living arrangements of the child on a day to day basis. There are two basic custody arrangements in the United States, sole custody, the most common, and joint custody. Sole custody assigns to one parent all legal rights, duties, and powers as a parent, including the right to make all decisions. In sole custody, the child resides with the custodial parent; the noncustodial parent is given the right to visit the child. The limited rights and privileges of the noncustodial parent have been expanded in most states over the past decade to provide equal legal access to child-related information of an educational and medical nature, and to make medical decisions in emergencies when the child is in the noncustodial parent's care. In joint custody arrangements, each parent retains certain rights and responsibilities with respect to the post-divorce parenting of the children. Considerable variation exists between states in the definition of joint custody, and under what circumstances it will be permitted and denied. With joint legal custody, both parents retain power to make decisions about their children, although in many states, the particular decisions to be jointly made must be specified in order to preserve the authority. Joint physical custody statutes are intended to indicate that the child lives with both parents on some shared basis, each parent assuming day to day parental responsibilities. Joint physical custody statutes do not define how much time the child resides with each parent, and are not interpreted as dictating a 50/50 residential time sharing. Thus, parents may elect joint physical custody, but the child may spend anywhere from 25% to 50% of his time with one of his parents, and the remainder with the other. The intent, for many fathers seeking joint physical custody language, is to avoid the label of "visitor" in the child's life, and to have the child "live" in that parent's home more than the usual limited visitation time. The legal trend over the past decade has been to favor shared parental legal authority over shared residential custody. While in most states, parents can agree to both or just one of these legal arrangements, the most common arrangement remains that of joint legal custody and sole or primary physical custody to one of the parents, most often the mother. In very unusual circumstances, with a history of extreme conflict over educational, medical, or religious values, parents may have joint physical custody, but one parent is assigned sole legal custody. Other legal custody arrangements that can be ordered at divorce include split custody, in which one or more children live with one parent while the remaining live with the other parent, and divided custody, also referred to as alternating custody. This form of custody allows each parent to have the child for alternating blocks of time, often every year or two years, with reciprocal visiting rights. Such legal arrangements are much less common. Judges are reluctant to order split custody, in particular, because of a firm belief that siblings should not be separated, but research indicates that such arrangements evolve informally between parents in the years after divorce, particularly with older children. Despite changes in the law and social custom, custody arrangements remained remarkably stable over the past three decades. National estimates in the 1970's and 80's indicated that women had sole custody of the children approximately 85% of the time, and men retained sole custody 10% of the time, with the remaining 5% spread over a variety of custody arrangements, including grandparent, split or joint custody. More recent data sets indicate that father custody figures may be closer to 15%. All these data are based on census and survey data, rather than court records, and reflect actual physical living arrangements. In states permitting or encouraging joint legal and physical custody arrangements, it is difficult to determine what percentage of parents have joint legal or physical custody, as this data must be obtained from individual divorce decrees. There is evidence that the incidence of joint legal custody rises dramatically when statutes permit this arrangement. By the late 1980's, joint legal custody had become normative in California, appearing in 75% to 90% of decrees. The incidence of joint physical custody in divorce decrees also increases after enabling legislation is passed, but at a lesser rate. In three California studies that obtained data regarding physical custody from final decrees, joint physical custody language appeared in 20%, 37%, and 60% of the cases, respectively. Variations can be attributed to the educational level of the sample, the use of mediation, and local judicial practice or preference. In other states utilizing different statutory criteria for joint physical custody, or where the social and judicial climate is less accepting of shared parenting, the incidence of formal orders with joint physical custody language may be quite low. Regardless of setting, the inclusion of such language in the court order is independent of actual residential arrangements. Because joint physical custody is often not in reality a strict 50/50 time sharing, the incidence of actual shared parenting arrangements is difficult to determine. Most researchers have defined joint physical custody (or dual residence) as between 30 and 50 percent of time spent with one of the parents. Using this framework, between 17 and 34 percent of families shared some form of physical custody in the mid-1980's in a jurisdiction (California) encouraging joint custody. However, since these are not random sampling studies, the actual rates may be lower, and these trends in California may not be reflective of other more judicially conservative states. Regardless of location, there is a higher incidence of shared residence among more educated parents. Extrapolations from several studies of visitation in other states indicate that from 12 to 24% of children may be visiting their fathers frequently enough to be considered in shared residence arrangements. Unlike maternal custody studies of visitation, which have shown a drop off in visit frequency over time, there appears to be less change in contact in shared residential families in the first several years after separation, particularly when the arrangement is close to 50/50. How Are Custody Arrangements Decided? Decisions regarding custody arrangements range along a continuum from the very informal, those agreements reached privately between parents, to the most formal procedural process, those decisions made by judicial determination following trial. Parents theoretically have the most control over the outcome of their private agreements, if they both participate fully and meaningfully in the decision-making. In contrast, parents have the most uncertainty and least control regarding the custody arrangement when the decision is given to a judge. Private Agreements The notion of parents making private decisions regarding custody and visiting is an appealing one, from both a psychological and economic viewpoint. On an individual basis, parents can discuss their own children's particular needs and reach agreements which reflect those needs, parental desires, and family values, and they can do so without depleting limited economic resources. Indeed, approximately 60% of parents appear to settle custody matters at the time of separation. However, the majority of parents have discussed these important issues very little, if at all, in doing so. Partly as a result of cultural assumptions unexplored, established family patterns, fear of conflict, and/or lack of financial resources, many parents arrive at custody and visiting arrangements primarily by default, rather than through a thoughtful consideration of their children's needs. Mediation When parents are unable to settle custody and visiting arrangements on their own, there are several non-adversarial options available. Some parents turn to trusted advisors or decision-makers outside of the legal system, including extended family members, the clergy, or psychotherapists for assistance. A more recent dispute settlement option, that of custody or comprehensive divorce mediation, has become available in the private sector in all states. In mediation, decision-making remains with the parties, not the mediator, who serves as an impartial third party to assist parents to reach mutually acceptable agreements. In contrast to adversarial proceedings, mediation focuses on collaborative problem-solving and the needs of all family members in working to resolve custody disputes. Several states, including California, Maine, and New Mexico, now mandate mediation as a first step process in attempting to resolve custody or visiting disputes. In many other states, and in numerous local jurisdictions, court-connected custody mediation is available on a discretionary basis, or required only for specific circumstances, such as when parents want joint custody. Studies of court-related custody mediation indicate high levels of satisfaction among both men and women, even when the agreements of the participants do not reflect their most desired outcome. Adversarial Processes At a more formal level of decision-making in custody disputes, parents must use attorneys to represent each parent's opposing position about what is in the child's best interest. Familiar with local judicial preference and rules, attorneys advise clients about their rights and likely outcomes, and either assist their clients to reach private negotiated settlements or encourage further litigation as a means of settling custody or visiting disputes. In states with legislation enabling parents to settle their own divorce matters and file "in pro per", or on their own behalf, the use of attorneys appears to have decreased dramatically. In large part, disenchantment with the adversarial system, the increasingly prohibitive costs of adversarial divorce proceedings, and the availability of excellent self-help resources accounts for this social trend. It is estimated that in California, more than 50% of divorce cases have one or both parties handling their own divorce, and in one jurisdiction with a predominantly lower socioeconomic population, close to 80% are not using attorneys for assistance. In a court mediation setting, one or both parents were not represented by counsel in nearly 40% of the cases disputing custody or access. The existence of a mandatory custody mediation program in California has enabled parents to either reduce their reliance upon attorneys, or bypass adversarial proceedings altogether. When parents are unable to reach negotiated settlements, a range of the most formal legal processes are available for settling custody disputes in all states, including judicial hearings, custody evaluations, settlement conferences, and custody trials. In states without mediation programs, trials are a more common process for resolving disputes, representing an estimated 20% of all contested custody or access cases. In California, the mandatory mediation program has reduced the number of custody trials to between 1% and 5% of all contested custody cases. While most states delegate the ultimate responsibility to judges for deciding custody disputes, parents and their attorneys have the option in Texas of using jury trials for determining custody outcomes. Regardless of who decides, adjudicated custody disputes are expensive (ranging from $50,000 to $300,000), lengthy (requiring one to three years for final settlement), public, and create a massive upheaval in the lives of all family members, generating even higher levels of mistrust, suspicion, and acrimony. Influences on Decision making Regardless of the level at which custody decisions are made, powerful influences on these decisions arise from statutory, judicial, cultural, educational, and research sources. Certainly most determinative in influencing custody outcomes are the statutes governing each state, and the related case law which has been developed to test, modify, or expand the intent of the statutes. Although only a small percentage of litigating parents require judicial decision-making, statutory law pervades all lower level decisions, as attorneys and parents negotiate "in the shadow of the law". At the heart of the adversarial process is the reliance upon legal precedent for making decisions, which limits different or innovative outcomes. At the parental level of decision-making, if father desires joint physical custody, but his attorney knows that joint physical custody has been summarily rejected by the local judge, even though permitted by law, the options available to that parent are limited to trial and appeal, or retreat. Regardless of family history and circumstances, parents and their attorneys will most often reach settlements that faithfully reflect the law or anticipated judicial opinion. Cultural traditions, reflected in the law, also heavily influence parental decision-making about custody. Mainstream American culture still views women as the appropriate primary caretakers for children after divorce, although the strength of this assumption varies within subcultures. Recent social change which encourages fathers to be more involved during marriage in child rearing responsibilities is primarily a white, middle and upper middle class phenomenon, and is not shared by the cultures of many ethnic and racial minorities in the United States. Therefore, cultural assumptions among these other groups will more often lead to sole mother custody arrangements with limited visiting arrangements. More recently, educational materials and parent education programs are influencing the decision-making of parents and attorneys. In many courtrooms across the country, divorce- related educational video presentations are required viewing for parents disputing custody or visiting matters. Most materials seek to educate parents about the impact of divorce and conflict on their children, and the need for children to continue their relationship with both parents after divorce. The effectiveness of such materials, or of required divorce-related parent education classes is largely unknown, but currently is being evaluated in a number of settings. Several books written for parents have been widely influential among parents and attorneys in their thinking about custody arrangements. Research on the effects of divorce on children, on post-divorce parent-child relationships, and on joint versus sole custody have also had considerable influence on decision-making at the parent, judicial, and legislative levels. Debate continues regarding the extent to which social science should be used to influence legislation, or judicial practices. Divorce research studies have used varying methodologies, samples, and measures, some of questionable reliability and applicability. The current practice by advocates for small, special interest groups for influencing legislation is to selectively use a certain research finding to bolster a political, or gender-linked point of view, while ignoring other data. Such practices make it very difficult for legislators or judges to achieve a balanced, informed view. Nevertheless, a convergence of research findings is slowly emerging which is informing dialogue among those willing to be more comprehensive and thoughtful. The use of mediation to settle custody disputes may also influence parental decision-making, depending upon the jurisdiction and the extent to which mediators may subtly discourage or encourage certain outcomes. In Virginia, disputing parents randomly assigned to custody mediation did not agree to any greater number of visiting days with the non-custodial father compared to those going to court. In part, this finding may have been influenced by the legal context, as well as a bias against joint physical custody expressed to parents by the mediators. In California, a jurisdiction with a statute encouraging "frequent and continuing contact" with the nonresidential parent, and which has produced a far greater variety of custody and access outcomes than most jurisdictions, parents using mediation agreed to more expanded visitation arrangements than did parents either deciding on their own or litigating their issues. Factors Considered in Custody Determinations When parents are able to settle custody or visiting disputes privately between themselves, they are free to rely upon any criteria of their own choosing for determining the outcome. Although it has not always been the case, if parents stipulate to mutual agreements regarding their children, judges in many jurisdictions will automatically approve their custody or parenting plan. The trend in judicial practice in the past decade has been to de-emphasize the role of the state as "big brother", intervening and passing judgment on private ordering regarding parenting arrangements, simply because a divorce has occurred. Particularly in states requiring mediation, written parenting plans, or other educational interventions, judicial officers more often limit their interventions and scrutiny to contested parenting matters. Parents who cannot agree on custody and access become subject to the legal criteria for determining custody outcomes that have been adopted by their particular state's legislature and related case law. The most common standard in use is the "best interests of the child", a gender neutral referent which allows mothers and fathers to compete for custody on an equal footing. Once established as the overriding standard in all 50 states, several states (see for example, Minnesota, Washington, and West Virginia) recently have adopted legislation or case law precedents which substitutes the "primary caretaker" standard for determining custody. A third standard for determining custody is the child's preference for custody, if the child is regarded statutorily of sufficient age to make such a judgement. The "best interests" standard. This standard is simple to state, and difficult to apply. There is little consensus among legal, judicial, or mental health communities regarding what the child's "best interests" actually are as they apply to a custody dispute. There are advantages and disadvantages to utilizing this criteria as the benchmark for custody decision-making. The most compelling reason for relying upon a determination of the child's best interests is that decision-making is centered on children's needs, rather than adult considerations or societal stereotypes and legal traditions. The shift to the best interests standard signalled a willingness on the part of the legal system to consider custody outcomes on a case by case basis, rather than adjudicating children as a class or homogeneous grouping. To those concerned with each individual child's psychological and developmental well-being, this shift to a more discerning, individuated approach was appropriate. The second advantage of the best interest standard is that it is responsive to changing social or legal trends outside of custody law. A number of judicial decisions relying upon a consideration of the child's interests have become landmark cases, charting a different course in child custody disputes, particularly with respect to custodial parents with severe physical disabilities, homosexual preferences, diverse life style practices, or in other nontraditional parenting arrangements. Certainly, the "best interest" standard enabled fathers who had engaged fully in significant caretaking roles within the family to have an expanded role in the child's life after divorce. The core problem of the best interests standard arises from the lack of uniformity regarding which interests to consider, how to define and weigh the importance of different factors, and how to account for children's changing developmental needs over time. The effect of such unclarity is that attorneys, social workers, and custody evaluators consider and emphasize different factors, or interpret the same concepts, such as continuity or stability, in diametrically opposed ways designed to benefit the parent they represent or favor. Without clear findings or guidelines, judges often make these difficult decisions by relying upon their own subjective value judgements and experiences, resulting in considerable unevenness in outcomes across or within jurisdictions. Although no empirical evidence exists, it would appear that when a state includes within its custody statutes a list of criteria to be considered in determining what is in the child's interests, there is more likely to be more uniformity in outcomes, and less uncertainty in bargaining. Michigan, for example, adopted eleven criteria for determining which residential arrangement was in the best interests of the child. Proponents of the case by case approach argue that with good criteria, appropriate information about the family, and with methodologically sound social science and developmental research made available to evaluators and judges, judges can make appropriate judgments which will respect the child's needs. Another argument raised against using the best interests standard is that its vagueness reduces women's bargaining power, complicates divorce negotiations, and encourages unnecessary litigation because of the uncertainty of outcome. There is little doubt that when the maternal presumption was in favor, the clear statutory rule deterred legal action, even when maternal care was gravely deleterious to children. Recent research indicates that women are not disadvantaged in the bargaining process by the best interest standard, that is, the uncertainty of custody outcomes did not cause women to trade off child support to avoid risk. The existence of mandatory child support guidelines reduces further such potential bargaining inequities. The larger philosophical question is whether one favors an approach which focuses on children's interests, or an approach which favors greater simplicity and efficiency in the legal system. In states relying on the best interest standard, child-focused, court-connected interventions such as mediation reduce litigation time, expense, and conflict in custody and visiting disputes. The "primary caretaker" preference. Several states have opted to reduce the uncertainty of the best interests standard by adopting language which favors the primary caretaker of the child during the marriage in determining custody outcomes. While the concept of the "primary caretaker" is technically gender neutral, there are many who perceive believe this as a return to a disguised maternal preference standard. Currently, strong efforts are being waged in many states to rescind joint custody legislation and the best interests standard simultaneously, based on the belief that women have been disadvantaged by both concepts. The primary caretaker is defined by the parental duties undertaken during marriage, to include a determination of which parent spent the most time preparing and planning meals, bathing and dressing, purchasing clothes, obtaining medical care, arranging for child care, putting the child to bed and waking in the morning, disciplining, educating, and teaching elementary skills such as reading and writing. One proposal advanced by a law professor included giving credit to whichever parent had "devoted significantly greater time and effort than the other in...breastfeeding." It is well documented that in most families, women more often than men undertake these physical caretaking activities, even when both parents are employed. However, there is little, if any, acknowledgment in most primary caretaker proposals of the types of activities and interactions more typically undertaken by men, including playing with the child, encouraging interest in physical and sports activities, coaching a team, providing intellectual stimulation, and homework assistance. No credit is given for responsibly earning income to support the family and its activities. From a developmental standpoint, there are many who argue that the differentiation of primary and secondary caretaker for children beyond preschool age is neither a critical one, from the perspective of the child's multiple attachments nor is supported by empirical research. The most serious problem with the primary caretaker standard is that it rewards countable, repetitive, and concrete behaviors, but totally ignores the quality of the relationship between primary caretaker and child. The most important emotional behaviors promoting children's development and healthy adjustment, including love, secure attachments, acceptance, nurturance, absence of abusive interactions, promoting autonomy and self-esteem, are not considered. Further, the psychological adjustment of the primary caretaker is not taken into consideration, despite the fact it is a known critical factor in the post-divorce adjustment of children. Primary caretakers, whether male or female, range from the abusive, neglectful, and emotionally disturbed, to the most stable, effective and nurturing of parents. In relying upon the primary caretaker standard, the child's core interests are dismissed in custody determinations. It is appropriate, however, to include among the criteria to be considered in determining the child's best interests, a consideration of the range and quality of each parent's care, activities and interactions with the child. The child's wishes. In many states, the child's wishes are either given great weight or are determinative in a custody dispute, if the child is of sufficient age and capacity to form an intelligent opinion. While many states allow a child of age 14 or older to state a preference, judges will often include the reasoned arguments of younger children in their deliberations as well. Recently a 14 year old petulantly wondered why a "primary caretaker" was such a big deal, and questioned why it had to be his mother (which she was claiming). In his opinion, both of his parents were primary caretakers, and he liked spending roughly equal time with each. "You get different things from moms and dads." The Emergence of Access as a Primary Factor to be Determined During the many decades of maternal presumption, visitation by the noncustodial father, if it occurred at all, was limited to every other weekend. Prior to social acceptance of divorce as a common remedy for unsatisfying emotional relationships, divorces more often occurred because of alcoholism, neglect, severe mental illness, or abandonment. Under such circumstances, non- custodial men were expected to cease their contacts with their children, or have only occasional, brief contacts. This tradition extended into the 1970's, when the increased divorce rate, and research on children of divorce, forced a re-examination of the concept of limited access. Repeated studies documented children's intense dissatisfaction with limited visitation, their sadness over the loss of frequent contact, and the diminution over time of the importance of the father to the child when contact was restricted. The vast majority of children with a positive relationship to their father found intolerable the waiting period of 12 or more days between contacts, consistent with every other weekend visitation, and reported that two to four overnights per month was unfair, unsatisfactory, and depriving. For toddlers and preschool children, in particular, their immature time perspective and cognitive abilities created confusion and fear that the nonresidential parent had abandoned them. In response to these repeated findings, visitation slowly began to change in the 1980's in many jurisdictions, first to include a brief midweek visit every other week (to shorten the gap between contacts to 7 days), and then to incorporate a midweek overnight, along with the every other weekend contact. This change shifted the amount of time that children were spending with their nonresidential parents, usually fathers, from approximately 15% to nearly 30%, depending upon how holidays and summers were arranged. When the relationship with the nonresidential parent is a positive one, children with expanded and flexible visitation are more satisfied, and view the divorce less negatively. Greater contact between child and father has been found to be associated with higher child support compliance payment of more supplemental child expanses and less father drop-out in the longer term. It is not possible to determine, on a national basis, how much time children are currently spending with their fathers, although clearly a significant trend toward more contacts has emerged in the past 15 years. Early reports suggested that approximately half of the nation's children were not seeing their fathers at all several years after divorce, and very few were visiting their fathers once or more a week. These data were based on a 1981 national survey data set, collected before much of the relevant divorce research was published, and prior to the adoption of joint custody or "frequent and continuing contact" statutes in most states. It is also critical to distinguish between parent access patterns among the divorced versus never married, as the never married have much higher rates of no contact. More recent research indicates that fewer children than previously indicated have no contact with their fathers after divorce, and more children are experiencing weekly contacts. In a 1988 national data set, 18% of the children had no contact in the prior year; an additional 14% had contact once a year with their fathers, generally, long distance summer visiting. Twenty- five percent saw their fathers once or more times a week. Based on recent regional studies, the level of disengagement between fathers and children appears to be further diminishing in that approximately 10% of nonresidential parents had not seen their children in the previous year. Similarly, among those children seeing their fathers, the overall amount of time appears to be increasing. While much research indicates that contacts with fathers diminish with time and distance after separation newer research in some locations suggests considerable stability in patterns of contact between fathers and children in the first several years after separation. It is important that parents establish the visitation pattern soon after separation, particularly including overnights, or the likelihood of visits continuing in the future is considerably diminished. It is reasonable to speculate that when interested visiting fathers negotiate sufficient time with their children to maintain the relationship at a meaningful level, and begin the contact immediately after separation, there will be less diminution in the visit pattern itself. Support for this has been found in studies of joint custody, which show little change in contact between fathers and children over time. One effect of the trend toward greater contact between fathers and children after divorce is that greater demands are placed upon the court and its ancillary services to settle the nature of access patterns when parents dispute. More than balancing this, however, is evidence that the number of custody disputes declines. In California, the vast majority of disputes utilizing public and private sector mediation services are not about which parent shall have custody. Rather, a large number of disputes are focused on how much time father will spend with the children. Will the weekend extend from Friday to Monday morning, or, will midweek overnights be every week or every other week? What is appropriate for a toddler, or a school age child? Such disputes are more easily settled than custody disputes, and the availability of mediation services results in efficient and satisfactory resolution. Other commonly disputed issues require more time and evaluation, such as whether substance abuse is interfering with adequate parenting, or whether a parent's mental state requires supervised visitation. Even with these more difficult issues, mediation is often an effective first step intervention. Specificity and Modifiability of Custody and Access Orders The most common custody order is one of physical custody to the mother and "reasonable visitation" to the father, with no specificity as to what the actual visiting pattern, holidays, or vacations will be. The failure to develop and specify detailed parenting plans creates uncertainty and conflict between parents, and confusion for the child about when he will next see his noncustodial parent. When a parenting or visiting plan is not worked out as to its specifics, the "reasonable visitation" language requires that the nonresidential parent make a request to the custodial parent each time access to the child is sought. In contrast, if dates and times of transitions are included in final divorce orders, nonresidential parents can exercise their parental responsibilities in a predictable manner, without power struggles or conflicts. The absence of specific post-divorce parenting orders is postulated to be a major cause of the diminution in contacts between fathers and children after divorce, and leads to father dropout. Lack of specificity in visitation also leads to considerable post-divorce litigation (or mediation), particularly before summer vacations and holidays. While many attorneys and judges believe that specific parenting plans create rather than lessen conflict, this view is not supported by the experience of mediators assisting parents to reach agreements. Both disputing and nondisputing parents express a strong desire to settle these issues. They recognize the value of eliminating uncertainty and conflict, and in being able to plan for their lives with and without children. What is needed are nonadversarial forums for parents to reach such agreements, which are generally not available in states lacking mediation services. Such forums can also be utilized in subsequent years when parenting plans need to be changed. In past decades, visiting orders, if they existed, were not expected to be modified over time. Every other weekend visitation was expected to meet the developmental needs of the child at all ages, as well as any other family changes post- divorce. Custody or visiting orders could not be changed within the legal system unless they met the test of certain changes of circumstances specified within each state. Although parents have always been entitled to modify their custody agreement by mutual agreement, most states have had limited criteria defining a change of circumstance, such as moving away or a disabling illness of a parent. It is striking that the changing developmental needs of the child or the child's wishes have not been considered as a change of circumstance to modify custody or visiting in the majority of states. Because approximately half of the contested custody and visiting cases before the court now involve children below the age of five, it is important to reconsider the circumstances under which parents can petition to change visiting orders. A parenting plan that meets the developmental needs of a 15 month old child is not necessarily good for a 5 year old, or a 15 year old. As statutes have permitted joint custody arrangements, and as visiting has expanded beyond every other weekend, many parents, and the professionals that assist them, recognize the need for flexibility in custody agreements to accommodate the child's changing developmental needs. It is not uncommon in mediation, for example, for parents to reach agreement on a parenting plan beneficial for their two year old, a schedule which accommodates the child's immature sense of time and anxieties arising from long separations from either parent. They also often agree to modify the plan when the child reaches three or four to a developmentally more advantageous schedule, or to return to mediation if either parent believes the revised plan would not serve the child's best interests. Such agreements are earnest efforts to consider what the child's best interests are, based on changing developmental needs. Such flexibility is not just a need of young children. What best serves a 9 year old may be developmentally inconsistent with the needs of an adolescent, a number of whom express a desire to change custody, particularly when they have lived primarily with one parent. Yet most states do not recognize the child's wish to "get to know" the other parent, or to remove oneself from the household of an angry, punitive parent, or to escape an alcoholic stepparent as a change of circumstance. Unless the parents can agree privately, or in mediation, there may be no remedy for such youngsters. Policy Recommendations in Custody Determinations Recommendations for policy emerge from two decades of divorce research, a decade of public and private sector experience with mediation, converging mediation research findings, and experiences with educational programs designed for divorcing parents. In determining custody at divorce in such a way that will consider their children's interests, parents need a hierarchical layering of available programs or services which reduce reliance upon litigation and trial, ranging from educational programs to mediation to arbitration. Parent Education Programs Whether they are in dispute or not, educational programs designed to provide divorcing parents with information about the impact of divorce on children, the effects of conflict on their children, how to keep their children out of their conflicts, and information regarding various custodial and parenting arrangements are important. Such programs can be offered through nonprofit agencies in communities, through churches, or can be sponsored by the courts. Good resource and training materials incorporating written, video, and discussion elements have been developed that ensure balanced, comprehensive programs. While it would be optimal if all divorcing parents could participate in these brief programs, it should be required of all parents disputing custody or access prior to entering mediation or initiating litigation. In those states offering or mandating custody mediation, it is recommended that orientation sessions be required to educate parents about the mediation process, including how it works and what the ground rules are, and about the overall legal process ahead of them. Many parents do not know what mediation is, and when they receive information describing the goals and procedures, are more likely to try it. Some jurisdictions providing premediation orientation sessions also include video and/or verbal information about children and divorce. Mandatory Mediation Mediation should not only be widely available to all parents disputing custody and access, it should be mandatory as a "first step" intervention. When parents enter the legal system with a custody or visiting dispute, an attempt to first mediate the dispute should be made, prior to initiating other more adversarial proceedings. From a public policy standpoint, this is an effective alternative program to fund, as settlement rates for custody disputes range from 50% to 75%, generally following 1 to 3 sessions. Among those attempting mediation who do not settle, they are more likely to reach agreement prior to a court hearing than disputing parents randomly assigned to the traditional adversary settlement process indicating that the mediation may have an indirect effect on the parties. Research in different jurisdictional settings demonstrates high levels of satisfaction with custody mediation among both men and women, and modest increases in cooperation. Mediation parents more often report feeling they both have "won" in reaching settlement, whereas litigating parents clearly define the outcome as producing a winner and a loser. When parents use a comprehensive divorce mediation process which encompasses financial and custody issues, the effect is more powerful in containing conflict, facilitating more positive post-divorce parental communication, and enhancing compliance with agreements. Mandatory mediation in the public sector requires protective policies for those unable or afraid to negotiate on their own behalf, even with preparation of counsel. In response to strong criticism from feminists legitimately concerned about the effect of domestic violence on women's bargaining abilities, California adopted legislation providing for separate sessions where there is a documented history of domestic violence, bringing a"support" person into joint sessions, if desired, and procedures within court mediation settings designed to ensure the safety of victims of domestic violence. Effective screening procedures should be instituted in mandatory mediation programs. From a policy standpoint, several additional considerations are important in recommending mandatory mediation. It is essential that mediators have specialized, intensive training and experience in divorce and custody matters, and in divorce mediation. Being a therapist, evaluator, lawyer, probation officer, or judge does not adequately prepare one to be an effective mediator. Further, settlement rates should not be considered as the sole indicator of the success of a program. In fact, settlement rates higher than 80% in custody disputes suggest mediator or administrative coercion to settle, or arbitration rather than mediation. Serious issues such as substance abuse, impaired mental capacity, child neglect and abuse, or domestic violence are often more appropriately resolved in more formal adversarial proceedings, including investigations, settlement conferences, hearings, and custody trials. Mediation should be available not only for those with formal disputes, but also for those who seek assistance in developing or changing parenting plans for their children. For parents without much dispute, but needing information and assistance, a pre-mediation consultation is frequently all that is needed. Such services could be provided through court or agency-sponsored group educational programs for divorcing parents, with backup mediation available for those needing dispute resolution services. Such a hierarchy of services is likely to be the most effective combination, from an economic as well as parent-child perspective. Mediation of Financial Disputes Although mediation is available in the private sector for settling property, support, and custody matters in an integrated manner, only the state of Maine mandates comprehensive mediation in the public sector. Comprehensive divorce mediation, when provided by skilled, knowledgeable mediators is more cost effective than adversarial processes, results in equitable agreements more satisfactory to its participants, produces more compliance, contains conflict, and facilitates more cooperative communication. Clients in court-connected custody mediation often express the desire for mediators to resolve their support issues, as well. Given the high number of clients handling their own divorces, without legal assistance, mediation services for settling simple property and support matters should be available, on a sliding scale basis, to those who desire it. Most states require that custody and financial disputes be settled in separate spheres, based on a policy position that these troublesome issues are not linked. With the recent adoption, in many states, of child support guidelines that directly tie the amount of child support to the time that the nonresidential parent spends with the child, these two issues have become inextricably linked. It is both honest and efficient to deal with them in the same forum, rather than to pretend that these issues are not related. In a comprehensive mediation process, financial and child-related concerns can be addressed simultaneously, each explored on their own merits but their interdependency acknowledged and resolved. Arbitration There are a small group of divorcing parents, estimated to be 10% to 15% in number, who remain in high conflict post-divorce. This chronically litigating group use a disproportionate amount of the court's time and resources, and deplete their own economic resources and parental energies. Several California jurisdictions have initiated a "Special Masters" program, designed to settle the continuing stream of disputes presented by this special population, including child rearing issues, transition disputes, vacation times, and egregious parental behaviors. Many of these families have a history of serious problems and chaotic functioning, while in others, the parents disagree about almost everything. Special Masters are selected and empowered by the disputing parties through stipulated agreements specifying the range of disputes to be settled. While parents have the ability to appeal the Special Master's orders and recommendations to the Superior Court, thus far this has rarely happened. The majority of Special Masters are mental health professionals with considerable training and experience in divorce, custody, parenting issues, and mediation. Different models of decision-making are utilized by Special Masters, the most common of which is a mediation/arbitration model, in which the Special Master first attempts to assist the parents in mediating disputes. If they are unable to settle, the Special Master makes the decision, and presents it to the parents in written form with the rationale for the decision included. While no formal evaluation of these innovative programs has yet been undertaken, attorneys, court mediation services, and the judiciary are positive about this non-litigious manner of settling disputes. Many parents request a Special Master, in recognition of their limited ability to communicate and cooperate with respect to their children. Based on the experience thus far with the Special Master's programs, it is recommended that pilot projects be established and evaluated which assess different models of decision-making for chronically litigating parents which incorporate mediation and arbitration roles. Such programs could evaluate the effectiveness of using individual Special Masters, currently the practice, as well as interdisciplinary mental health/attorney arbitration panels. The legal authority under which Special Masters function must be further explored, as well as the relationship of the Special Masters to the court when parents fail to comply with written orders. Judicial Education With the latitude given to judges under the "best interests of the child" statutes for custody decision-making, judicial education in basic child development concepts becomes extremely important. While the majority of judges receive specific case law and procedural training when they move onto the family law bench, few receive education which would enable them to make appropriate decisions regarding developmentally-sensitive visiting or custody plans for children of different ages. Curriculums incorporating basic information about attachment, separation anxiety, continuity in relationships, and children's needs during and after divorce with particular emphasis on the implications of such concepts and data for judicial decision- making are necessary to achieve more uniformity and quality in judicial orders. Further, panels of neutral developmental/clinical consultants should be available to judges to explore with them the particular developmental issues raised by difficult custody cases, so that the judiciary has a reasoned basis which is defensible for making decisions. While some judges utilize personal collegial relationships, off the record, for such purposes, many judges express the desire for nonadversarial consultation to sort through the troubling issues presented in adversarial hearings and trials, particularly those involving infants and young children. Conclusions It is recommended, for the reasons discussed above, that the most appropriate statutory standard for making decisions in custody disputes is the best interests of the child. Given the wide variety of family styles in our culture, decisions about children and parent-child relationships post-divorce are appropriately case-by-case decisions. The "best interests" standard can be more thoughtfully applied when states adopt criteria which delineate important factors to be considered, and will achieve more uniformity with judicial education. Finally, if educational and mediation programs are available in all jurisdictions across the country to divorcing parents, the majority of parents will settle the important issues of access and custody without reliance upon adversarial processes. This is a desirable outcome which clearly is in the best interests of children and families. |
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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
"Fighting for kids" adf wrote in message ... By: Joan B. Kelly, Ph. D. Do you read any of this stuff you post? This source contradicts several of the positions you have taken in the past. For instance you have stated women get custody because they are recognized as the primary caregivers. This article says states have changed their custody laws and replaced the primary caregiver custody standard with the best interest of the child custody standard. You have stated fathers don't want to care for their children. This article says pressure from men's groups have caused changes in custody decisions and men are still concerned the best interest of the child custody standard, as applied by judges, is nothing more than a disguised version of the old primary caregiver standard. You have stated a father's primary role is to pay CS. This article says fathers play a significant caretaking role within the intact family and fathers should have an expanded role in the children's lives after divorce. You have stated children are much better off with their mothers. This article says children feel a sense of sadness over the lose of frequent contact with their fathers. You have stated fathers run away and ignore their children. This article says 25% of children of divorce see their father at least once a week, and only 10% haven't seen their father in the past year. You have stated judges make appropriate custody decisions based on the facts at the time the parents separate. This article says judicial education is needed to enable judges to understand the developmentally-sensitive visiting and custody plans for children of different ages and to adjust custody and visitation plans based on the children's ages. |
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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ink.net... "Fighting for kids" adf wrote in message ... By: Joan B. Kelly, Ph. D. Do you read any of this stuff you post? This source contradicts several of the positions you have taken in the past. For instance you have stated women get custody because they are recognized as the primary caregivers. This article says states have changed their custody laws and replaced the primary caregiver custody standard with the best interest of the child custody standard. It states that SOME states are changing their custody law and replacing the primary caregiver standard. It also states that many states are still using the PC standard but are begining to recognize that MEN can be the PC also. You have stated fathers don't want to care for their children. This article says pressure from men's groups have caused changes in custody decisions and men are still concerned the best interest of the child custody standard, as applied by judges, is nothing more than a disguised version of the old primary caregiver standard. I didnt state that ALL fathers dont want to care fo their children. It also makes the following statement about your groups: "The current practice by advocates for small, special interest groups for influencing legislation is to selectively use a certain research finding to bolster a political, or gender-linked point of view, while ignoring other data. Such practices make it very difficult for legislators or judges to achieve a balanced, informed view." You have stated a father's primary role is to pay CS. This article says fathers play a significant caretaking role within the intact family and fathers should have an expanded role in the children's lives after divorce. I NEVER said this. I said that the NCP should pay support. If you are referring to the comments made about the stupid unilateral theory, well of course I would say MEN. Especially when people say things like "women force men to pay" or "women have unilaterial decisions". What else would anyone respond with if they didnt agree?? I responded with MEN should be financial responsible for their children. How is that saying its their "primary role to pay CS???" You have stated children are much better off with their mothers. This article says children feel a sense of sadness over the lose of frequent contact with their fathers. Again ive NEVER said this either, I have said that children should have a "homebase" and have also said that BOTH parents should have access to their children. I said that the primary caregiver in most cases is the mother, which is the truth. Ive said that their are good and bad PC's, good and bad NCP's. You have stated fathers run away and ignore their children. This article says 25% of children of divorce see their father at least once a week, and only 10% haven't seen their father in the past year. Ive never said ALL FATHERS.. Ive always said SOME. SOME = 10%. Ive made statements about SOME fathers not providing support for their children on consistant basis .. You have stated judges make appropriate custody decisions based on the facts at the time the parents separate. This article says judicial education is needed to enable judges to understand the developmentally-sensitive visiting and custody plans for children of different ages and to adjust custody and visitation plans based on the children's ages. Ive said over and over and over and over and over that this system is screwed up. This article doesnt "favor" anyones views. Its an overview of what has happened with custody in the US. Starting with men thinking women and children were property to the changing views and trends of today. Thats it, nothing more. |
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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
"Fighting for kids" adf wrote in message ... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ink.net... "Fighting for kids" adf wrote in message ... By: Joan B. Kelly, Ph. D. Do you read any of this stuff you post? This source contradicts several of the positions you have taken in the past. For instance you have stated women get custody because they are recognized as the primary caregivers. This article says states have changed their custody laws and replaced the primary caregiver custody standard with the best interest of the child custody standard. It states that SOME states are changing their custody law and replacing the primary caregiver standard. It also states that many states are still using the PC standard but are begining to recognize that MEN can be the PC also. You've got that backwards. The article says the best interest of the child custody standard was the overriding standard in ALL 50 STATES, but recently Minnesota, Waahington, and West Virginia adopted legislation or case law precendents which substitutes the old primary caregiver standard for child custody. The article further states the primary caregiver roles that get defined are the activities typically undertaken by women such as breastfeeding. No weight is given to the father's primary caretaker roles like earning money, playing with the children, encouraging physical and sports activities, coaching a team, etc. You have stated fathers don't want to care for their children. This article says pressure from men's groups have caused changes in custody decisions and men are still concerned the best interest of the child custody standard, as applied by judges, is nothing more than a disguised version of the old primary caregiver standard. I didnt state that ALL fathers dont want to care fo their children. It also makes the following statement about your groups: "The current practice by advocates for small, special interest groups for influencing legislation is to selectively use a certain research finding to bolster a political, or gender-linked point of view, while ignoring other data. Such practices make it very difficult for legislators or judges to achieve a balanced, informed view." Nice try to make it sound like this is a tactic used by father's rights groups only. Dr. Kelly's quote in context includes her comments about the extent to which social science findings should be used in determining custody standards. She did not name any groups that use the tactic of presenting narrowly selected data to advance an agenda, but she implied both sides have used this approach. And her point is a convergence of research findings ahs started to lead the dialogue among those who are more comprehensive and thoughtful. You have stated a father's primary role is to pay CS. This article says fathers play a significant caretaking role within the intact family and fathers should have an expanded role in the children's lives after divorce. I NEVER said this. I said that the NCP should pay support. If you are referring to the comments made about the stupid unilateral theory, well of course I would say MEN. Especially when people say things like "women force men to pay" or "women have unilaterial decisions". What else would anyone respond with if they didnt agree?? I responded with MEN should be financial responsible for their children. How is that saying its their "primary role to pay CS???" You have made it very clear it is your opinion men have not accepted their financial responsibilities for children, and you have posted numerous sources purported to show men don't pay CS. That tactic is exactly what was pointed out in the paragraph above, i.e. presenting selected data in an attempt to sway the debate in favor of an agenda. You have stated children are much better off with their mothers. This article says children feel a sense of sadness over the lose of frequent contact with their fathers. Again ive NEVER said this either, I have said that children should have a "homebase" and have also said that BOTH parents should have access to their children. I said that the primary caregiver in most cases is the mother, which is the truth. Ive said that their are good and bad PC's, good and bad NCP's. The only way mothers can be the primary caregiver in most cses is to narrowly define the role of primary caregiver to mother-provided activities only. Dr. Kelly is saying that is a disservice to the children and the children suffer repercussions in the long term from this biased approach. Dr. Kelly is also saying access needs to be adjusted over time and parents change over time and so should custody orders. You have stated fathers run away and ignore their children. This article says 25% of children of divorce see their father at least once a week, and only 10% haven't seen their father in the past year. Ive never said ALL FATHERS.. Ive always said SOME. SOME = 10%. Ive made statements about SOME fathers not providing support for their children on consistant basis .. You are mistakenly associating visitation and access with providing support. They are two different things. However, other research has shown that when access and visitation is not a problem support for children, both monatary and psychological, goes up. You have stated judges make appropriate custody decisions based on the facts at the time the parents separate. This article says judicial education is needed to enable judges to understand the developmentally-sensitive visiting and custody plans for children of different ages and to adjust custody and visitation plans based on the children's ages. Ive said over and over and over and over and over that this system is screwed up. This article doesnt "favor" anyones views. Its an overview of what has happened with custody in the US. Starting with men thinking women and children were property to the changing views and trends of today. Thats it, nothing more. It wasn't what men thought - it was the law before the industrial revolution began when men started to work outside of the family farm or the local town. Dr. Kelly makes it very clear that the way we got to the current screwed up system was because of the intense pressure in the 60's and 70's to adopt laws that retained the maternal custody preferences plus gave more gender favorable treatment to women who were entering the workforce in large numbers and exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. The irony is the feminists who fought so hard for these changes and for gender equity are now the greatest opponents to men's claims of sexual discrimination and lack of equal protection under the current laws. |
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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ink.net... You've got that backwards. The article says the best interest of the child custody standard was the overriding standard in ALL 50 STATES, but recently , Waahington, and West Virginia adopted legislation or case law precendents which substitutes the old primary caregiver standard for child custody. Thats THREE states, and furthermore it also "Currently, strong efforts are being waged in many states to rescind joint custody legislation and the best interests standard simultaneously". It further suggests that "if" states are to follow the PC, they should have set criteria to determine WHICH parent is more fit to have the children. Which again, as ive said before, this should be done as there are BAD and GOOD parents. However there is a huge amount of obsticles that must be overcome to even get to a point where "women" are not seen just as the PC's, like cultures which are not reflective of any feminist movements or masculist movements. The author points out some: Cultural traditions, reflected in the law, also heavily influence parental decision-making about custody. Mainstream American culture still views women as the appropriate primary caretakers for children after divorce, although the strength of this assumption varies within subcultures. Recent social change which encourages fathers to be more involved during marriage in child rearing responsibilities is primarily a white, middle and upper middle class phenomenon, and is not shared by the cultures of many ethnic and racial minorities in the United States. Therefore, cultural assumptions among these other groups will more often lead to sole mother custody arrangements with limited visiting arrangements. The article further states the primary caregiver roles that get defined are the activities typically undertaken by women such as breastfeeding. No weight is given to the father's primary caretaker roles like earning money, playing with the children, encouraging physical and sports activities, coaching a team, etc. You have stated fathers don't want to care for their children. This article says pressure from men's groups have caused changes in custody decisions and men are still concerned the best interest of the child custody standard, as applied by judges, is nothing more than a disguised version of the old primary caregiver standard. I didnt state that ALL fathers dont want to care fo their children. It also makes the following statement about your groups: "The current practice by advocates for small, special interest groups for influencing legislation is to selectively use a certain research finding to bolster a political, or gender-linked point of view, while ignoring other data. Such practices make it very difficult for legislators or judges to achieve a balanced, informed view." Nice try to make it sound like this is a tactic used by father's rights groups only. Dr. Kelly's quote in context includes her comments about the extent to which social science findings should be used in determining custody standards. She did not name any groups that use the tactic of presenting narrowly selected data to advance an agenda, but she implied both sides have used this approach. And her point is a convergence of research findings ahs started to lead the dialogue among those who are more comprehensive and thoughtful. No, im just pointing out that you are not except from her statements, nothing more. You have made it very clear it is your opinion men have not accepted their financial responsibilities for children, and you have posted numerous sources purported to show men don't pay CS. That tactic is exactly what was pointed out in the paragraph above, i.e. presenting selected data in an attempt to sway the debate in favor of an agenda. It is my opinon that fathers and mothers should be responsible for their children. I have posted numerous sources that site statistics showing some NCP's do not pay support. You have again taken things out of context. The first time I posted it was because we were having an argument brought about by someone here that "men" pay their support. I showed that NCP, both men and women, DONT pay their support. The statistics I posted were about NCP's NOT about men solely. However, when I post anything or a comment all of you cry that you want statistical data, yet here you are supporting that all statistics are garbage, that would im assuming include your own statistical data. The only way mothers can be the primary caregiver in most cses is to narrowly define the role of primary caregiver to mother-provided activities only. Dr. Kelly is saying that is a disservice to the children and the children suffer repercussions in the long term from this biased approach. Dr. Kelly is also saying access needs to be adjusted over time and parents change over time and so should custody orders. Sigh, did I say anything against this postion? Ive said throughout this entire time that BOTH parents should be given access to their children. This discussion included my opinons about 50/50 custody. Someone posted something along the lines of why people dont view men as equal participants in the childs life. My response, which was taken WAY out of context was in reply to this. That we "americans" dont veiw each other as equal in any way shape or form, that we place a value on everything. My example was related to what a teacher and doctor made and why we value one more than the other. This also was twisted into this "lifestyle support" in that I supported it, when I didnt even say I supported it or not. As a matter of fact ive said over and over that "the NCP if ordered to pay any support should be ordered to take care of basic needs and any extraordinary expenses paid by them as a gift directly to the child if they so choose". I never said that MEN are not as important to children as the female. I did say that for every study that shows one view there is probably another that supports the exact opposite feelings. However, statistics are not relavant apparently. You are mistakenly associating visitation and access with providing support. They are two different things. However, other research has shown that when access and visitation is not a problem support for children, both monatary and psychological, goes up. Im not associating anything here. I was only quoting what I said, you are the one again that made an assumption. I have made comments about 50/50 custody and "why" in some situations it wouldnt work out, and that often there isnt a true 50/50 split (which this author has pointed out). I have NEVER said fathers shouldnt see their children. I have also made comments that "men" (again in response to the unilateral discussion ONLY) should be responsible for their children that they make, thats it. Ive made comments in response to some of the men here who think "men" in general are getting taken for every penny they have and the basic needs of the child are far less expensive. However, ive never related visiation to payment of child support. It wasn't what men thought - it was the law before the industrial revolution began when men started to work outside of the family farm or the local town. "In Roman, and later in English common law, children were viewed as the property of the father, who had a legal obligation to protect, support and educate his children. Fathers had the right as well to sell their children, and to enter them into enforced labor. In divorce, until the mid-nineteenth century, fathers had a near absolute right to custody, regardless of circumstances" Dr. Kelly makes it very clear that the way we got to the current screwed up system was because of the intense pressure in the 60's and 70's to adopt laws that retained the maternal custody preferences plus gave more gender favorable treatment to women who were entering the workforce in large numbers and exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. The article says NOTHING about the screw up occuring in the 60's and 70's and it being due to women exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. Nice adding that on the end. Futhermore it specifically states (see below) that this is when the "fathers claim of sex discrimination in custody decisions was challenged and this was the first time that states adopted in the childs best interest rather than the tender years assumption. It further states that the notion of "joint custody" was made in the 70's. I think you are mistaken, the "screw up" was when Freudian Psych Theory was prevalant in the 30's, which moved to keep children with their mothers only ("which focused exclusively on the mother-child relationship, and ignored the role of the father in the child's development"). Previous to this women and children were nothing more than "property" to the father and the mothers had to give the child back to the father when the child was ready to be put to labor or sold. "The maternal presumption for custody remained firm for many decades in the United States, challenged only after the divorce rate began its dramatic rise in the 1960's. Spurred on by fathers' claims of sex discrimination in custody decisions, constitutional concerns for equal protection, the feminist movement, and the entry of large numbers of women into the workforce, most states had substituted the standard of the "best interests of the child" for the tender years presumption by the mid 1970's. For the first time in history, custody decision-making was to be rooted in a consideration of the child's needs and interests, rather than based simply on the gender of the parent. The irony is the feminists who fought so hard for these changes and for gender equity are now the greatest opponents to men's claims of sexual discrimination and lack of equal protection under the current laws. Extremist groups are getting out of control, on both sides. Someone needs to put a sock in both their mouths. |
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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
"Fighting for kids" adf wrote in message ... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ink.net... You've got that backwards. The article says the best interest of the child custody standard was the overriding standard in ALL 50 STATES, but recently , Waahington, and West Virginia adopted legislation or case law precendents which substitutes the old primary caregiver standard for child custody. Thats THREE states, and furthermore it also "Currently, strong efforts are being waged in many states to rescind joint custody legislation and the best interests standard simultaneously". It further suggests that "if" states are to follow the PC, they should have set criteria to determine WHICH parent is more fit to have the children. Which again, as ive said before, this should be done as there are BAD and GOOD parents. So explain for the unenlightened how you can post the majority of states use the primary caregiver standard, and then when the rebuttal comes that your own reference shows all but three states use the best interest of the child standard, how your original position was accurate? However there is a huge amount of obsticles that must be overcome to even get to a point where "women" are not seen just as the PC's, like cultures which are not reflective of any feminist movements or masculist movements. The author points out some: Cultural traditions, reflected in the law, also heavily influence parental decision-making about custody. Mainstream American culture still views women as the appropriate primary caretakers for children after divorce, although the strength of this assumption varies within subcultures. Recent social change which encourages fathers to be more involved during marriage in child rearing responsibilities is primarily a white, middle and upper middle class phenomenon, and is not shared by the cultures of many ethnic and racial minorities in the United States. Therefore, cultural assumptions among these other groups will more often lead to sole mother custody arrangements with limited visiting arrangements. Another attempt to take Dr. Kelly's actual statements out of context. She used those words, but in the context of influences on the custody decision making process. She was referring to the powerful influences from within the legal system, not the lobbying influences from outside the system. The article further states the primary caregiver roles that get defined are the activities typically undertaken by women such as breastfeeding. No weight is given to the father's primary caretaker roles like earning money, playing with the children, encouraging physical and sports activities, coaching a team, etc. You have stated fathers don't want to care for their children. This article says pressure from men's groups have caused changes in custody decisions and men are still concerned the best interest of the child custody standard, as applied by judges, is nothing more than a disguised version of the old primary caregiver standard. I didnt state that ALL fathers dont want to care fo their children. It also makes the following statement about your groups: "The current practice by advocates for small, special interest groups for influencing legislation is to selectively use a certain research finding to bolster a political, or gender-linked point of view, while ignoring other data. Such practices make it very difficult for legislators or judges to achieve a balanced, informed view." Nice try to make it sound like this is a tactic used by father's rights groups only. Dr. Kelly's quote in context includes her comments about the extent to which social science findings should be used in determining custody standards. She did not name any groups that use the tactic of presenting narrowly selected data to advance an agenda, but she implied both sides have used this approach. And her point is a convergence of research findings ahs started to lead the dialogue among those who are more comprehensive and thoughtful. No, im just pointing out that you are not except from her statements, nothing more. So why did you represent Dr. Kelly's comments as being about men's groups? You have made it very clear it is your opinion men have not accepted their financial responsibilities for children, and you have posted numerous sources purported to show men don't pay CS. That tactic is exactly what was pointed out in the paragraph above, i.e. presenting selected data in an attempt to sway the debate in favor of an agenda. It is my opinon that fathers and mothers should be responsible for their children. I have posted numerous sources that site statistics showing some NCP's do not pay support. You have again taken things out of context. The first time I posted it was because we were having an argument brought about by someone here that "men" pay their support. I showed that NCP, both men and women, DONT pay their support. The statistics I posted were about NCP's NOT about men solely. So I guess you will agree that NCP mothers pay CS at a worse rate than NCP fathers since your sources show that is true. However, when I post anything or a comment all of you cry that you want statistical data, yet here you are supporting that all statistics are garbage, that would im assuming include your own statistical data. The problem you have is your statements run counter to the sources you post. It's that simple. The only way mothers can be the primary caregiver in most cses is to narrowly define the role of primary caregiver to mother-provided activities only. Dr. Kelly is saying that is a disservice to the children and the children suffer repercussions in the long term from this biased approach. Dr. Kelly is also saying access needs to be adjusted over time and parents change over time and so should custody orders. Sigh, did I say anything against this postion? Ive said throughout this entire time that BOTH parents should be given access to their children. This discussion included my opinons about 50/50 custody. Someone posted something along the lines of why people dont view men as equal participants in the childs life. My response, which was taken WAY out of context was in reply to this. That we "americans" dont veiw each other as equal in any way shape or form, that we place a value on everything. My example was related to what a teacher and doctor made and why we value one more than the other. This also was twisted into this "lifestyle support" in that I supported it, when I didnt even say I supported it or not. As a matter of fact ive said over and over that "the NCP if ordered to pay any support should be ordered to take care of basic needs and any extraordinary expenses paid by them as a gift directly to the child if they so choose". Why are you introducing CS payments into a discussion of custody decision making? I think you are trying to deflect attention away from your absurd positions that are not backed up by the references you post. I never said that MEN are not as important to children as the female. I did say that for every study that shows one view there is probably another that supports the exact opposite feelings. However, statistics are not relavant apparently. When statistics are used to support a position they are oaky. But when the statistics are used selectively to advance an agenda they are used improperly particularly when contrary evidence is ignored. You are mistakenly associating visitation and access with providing support. They are two different things. However, other research has shown that when access and visitation is not a problem support for children, both monatary and psychological, goes up. Im not associating anything here. I was only quoting what I said, you are the one again that made an assumption. I have made comments about 50/50 custody and "why" in some situations it wouldnt work out, and that often there isnt a true 50/50 split (which this author has pointed out). I have NEVER said fathers shouldnt see their children. I have also made comments that "men" (again in response to the unilateral discussion ONLY) should be responsible for their children that they make, thats it. Ive made comments in response to some of the men here who think "men" in general are getting taken for every penny they have and the basic needs of the child are far less expensive. However, ive never related visiation to payment of child support. So because you posted Dr. Kelly's article does that mean you agree with her conclusions that more liberal access should be the norm, custody orders should be adjusted as the children age, more joint custody should be ordered, and judges need to put aside their personal biases and follow the law? It wasn't what men thought - it was the law before the industrial revolution began when men started to work outside of the family farm or the local town. "In Roman, and later in English common law, children were viewed as the property of the father, who had a legal obligation to protect, support and educate his children. Fathers had the right as well to sell their children, and to enter them into enforced labor. In divorce, until the mid-nineteenth century, fathers had a near absolute right to custody, regardless of circumstances" Dr. Kelly makes it very clear that the way we got to the current screwed up system was because of the intense pressure in the 60's and 70's to adopt laws that retained the maternal custody preferences plus gave more gender favorable treatment to women who were entering the workforce in large numbers and exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. The article says NOTHING about the screw up occuring in the 60's and 70's and it being due to women exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. Nice adding that on the end. Futhermore it specifically states (see below) that this is when the "fathers claim of sex discrimination in custody decisions was challenged and this was the first time that states adopted in the childs best interest rather than the tender years assumption. It further states that the notion of "joint custody" was made in the 70's. Oh really? Then why does the author talk about it taking until the mid-70's for the maternal preference to be successfully challenged after all of the feminist driven advancements for women? I think you are mistaken, the "screw up" was when Freudian Psych Theory was prevalant in the 30's, which moved to keep children with their mothers only ("which focused exclusively on the mother-child relationship, and ignored the role of the father in the child's development"). Previous to this women and children were nothing more than "property" to the father and the mothers had to give the child back to the father when the child was ready to be put to labor or sold. "The maternal presumption for custody remained firm for many decades in the United States, challenged only after the divorce rate began its dramatic rise in the 1960's. Spurred on by fathers' claims of sex discrimination in custody decisions, constitutional concerns for equal protection, the feminist movement, and the entry of large numbers of women into the workforce, most states had substituted the standard of the "best interests of the child" for the tender years presumption by the mid 1970's. For the first time in history, custody decision-making was to be rooted in a consideration of the child's needs and interests, rather than based simply on the gender of the parent. You just proved my point above. That's exactly what Dr. Kelly wrote. The irony is the feminists who fought so hard for these changes and for gender equity are now the greatest opponents to men's claims of sexual discrimination and lack of equal protection under the current laws. Extremist groups are getting out of control, on both sides. Someone needs to put a sock in both their mouths. Not surprisingly, Dr. Kelly came to a few more sophisticated conclusions about the issues of child custody. Read her Policy Recommendations in Custody Determiniations at the end of the article. |
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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
From: "Fighting for kids" adf
Newsgroups: alt.child-support Thats THREE states, and furthermore it also "Currently, strong efforts are being waged in many states to rescind joint custody legislation and the best interests standard simultaneously". Best Interests is a term throw around like it had some precise meaning. Does anyone know what it means? Of course not. It has one meaning in case number 1 and a different meaning in case number 2. It means whatever the judge believes it to mean in any given case. The arguments that the states EVER followed any "standard" in custody cases other than fathers always win under the old common law, and the tender years doctrine that means mother always wins (which still permeates custody battles to this day) really are semantic false premises. Cultural traditions, reflected in the law, also heavily influence parental decision-making about custody. Child custody decisions are entirely political, and it's time people grew up and realized that. Mainstream American culture still views women as the appropriate primary caretakers for children after divorce, although the strength of this assumption varies within subcultures Mainstream America still views woman as prisoners of their wombs, it is so pervasive that even NOW falls for it. Recent social change which encourages fathers to be more involved during marriage in child rearing responsibilities is primarily a white, middle and upper middle class phenomenon, and is not shared by the cultures of many ethnic and racial Maybe because those racial groups are smarter than the white folks and know that when white woman speak about fathers being important they know that "white woman speak with forked tongue." If you believe that men are getting any encouragement, even a small amount to be dads, need to visit Net-maven Liz Kates' web site. http://www.thelizlibrary.org/fathers/ If you carefully read Ms. Kates' site, you will see her venom toward fathers, but is Liz Kates speaking for only herself? No, she speaks for much of the women's movement in America. Look at her cross-links to Feminists such as Trish Wilson, Phyllis Chesler, Eleanor Smeal, and many other luminaries of feminism. She speaks for the polemicists, but she also reflects the current level of politics involved with child custody and she reflects the current massive propaganda effort by the extreme culture that dominates feminism today. You may think that the father involvement doesn't resonate in the other racial cultures, it does, but I think it is because of a long legacy of listening to the "shucking and giving" from the "white momma" that they just know better. They know when they are getting played. Therefore, cultural assumptions among these other groups will more often lead to sole mother custody arrangements with limited visiting arrangements. Oh come on. The reason you don 't see African-American dads winning custody is that they can't (by and large) get jobs that would allow then the $30,000 it takes for a dad to win custody. They know that nobody wants then to have their kids, so why get into a fight they can't afford and couldn't win if they could! The first time I posted it was because we were having an argument brought about by someone here that "men" pay their support. I showed that NCP, both men and women, DONT pay their support. The point is that fathers generally DO pay their support. If you look at the statistics, even the hyped statistics, you will see that over 85% of child support IS paid, and the part that isn't paid has lengthy explanations that work. Such as unemployment. And just to defect silly arguments, unemployment his families without a divorce. Adjustments are made... or not. Arguments about child custody and child support are usually framed in ther mindset of whatever axe one brings to the table that influences your particular argument. This is classic war between the genders. I doubt we can ever grow up enough as a species to think past out own selfish interests. Children are merely a pawn to be used on the board game here. Ive said throughout this entire time that BOTH parents should be given access to their children. Oh - as they say; "How mighty WHITE of you." They should be "GIVEN" a nice little present by the STATE.. A GIFT from the Great White Father! ALLOWED to have a relationship with their children. Talk about building a battleship inside out. Did it ever occur to you, or to the rest of the audience here, that the STATE should not interfere with the parent child relationship (meaning CURTAILING IT) unless there is: 1. A COMPELLING state interest, and 2. Clear and convining EVIDENCE that it is NECESSARY for the survival of the child? I never said that MEN are not as important to children as the female. I did say that for every study that shows one view there is probably another that supports the exact opposite feelings. Alas it is right here where our educational system fails us. What IS a "study?" Is an OP -ED piece like that of Dr. Phyllis Chesler a "study?" Is Trish Wilsons ranting and raving a "study?" Are the eruptions on Liz Kates' web site documentary evidence? The system fails us when we have NO critical judgment, when political ranting is mistaken for "science." When we cannot discriminate between valid methodology in a "study" and that which isn't. When we cannot see the political ranting and raving in a Journal Article that separates it from being true "scientific research." And one side is as guilty as the other in this. Going back to what I have now said four times, these arguments are 100% political and NOTHING REMOTELY NEAR "science." And the arguments have nothing whatever to do with what is best for children. I would submit that Liz Kates, Phyllis Chesler as well as some on the other side are TOTALLY clueless about what children really need. The FIRST thing they need is for their STUPID parents to STOP FIGHTING! However, statistics are not relavant apparently Ever hear the old saying; "there are liers, then there are damned liers, and then there are people who USE statistics." It isn't hard to make 2 plus to to add up to 27.3. I have NEVER said fathers shouldnt see their children. How generous of you. That ranks right up there with; "I never said that ALL negroes should be slaves." Ive made comments in response to some of the men here who think "men" in general are getting taken for every penny they have and the basic needs of the child are far less expensive. Oh we never want to talk about the "actual needs" of the children. This is the boys versus the girls. Why bring "facts" into this, we've been doing without them for so long. Have you ever looked at the USDA web site on the REAL costs for raising children? Did you know they exist? They exist not only for just about every region of the United States but are broken down by income levels of the parents. High, medium and low. Can anyone tell me why ONE parent shoulld be responsible for MORE THAN 50% of the ACTUAL needs of the children as the USDA tables document? Why should ONE parent be responsible for 95 or more than 100% of those costs? "In Roman, and later in English common law, children were viewed as the property of the father, who had a legal obligation to protect, support and educate his children. A distortion of a very complex legal system. You use "property" here is a way that wasn't the concept of those times. Fathers had the right as well to sell their children, Propaganda! and to enter them into enforced labor. sigh Later day revisionists. Fathers had the "obligation" to make sure their children could become self supporting. There were no technical schools in those days. What was done was to have a child become an "apprentice." Yes they worked for low wages, but they were learning a trade to support themselves with. Your picture in your argument of fathers "HEARTLESSLY SELLING THEIR CHILDREN INTO SLAVERY" is what I was referring to with the success of political propaganda. In divorce, until the mid-nineteenth century, fathers had a near absolute right to custody, regardless of circumstances" And if we look at out society today, we can see that the change was a mistake. The article says NOTHING about the screw up occuring in the 60's and 70's and it being due to women exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. For whatever the atricle in question mat or my not say, no-fault divorce has proven to be a disaster for children and for society. Previous to this women and children were nothing more than "property" to the father and the mothers had to give the child back to the father when the child was ready to be put to labor or sold. Extremis propaganda. Not historically accurate. most states had substituted the standard of the "best interests of the child" for the tender years presumption by the mid 1970's. Which is precisely like telling a plantation slave; "You're free now, get back out in the damn fields." For the first time in history, custody decision-making was to be rooted in a consideration of the child's needs and interests, rather than based simply on the gender of the parent. Horse feathers! "best Interests" is merely two words meaning the same thing as "Tender years Doctrine." Of course when people caught onto that one, "best interests" has been replaced by "primary caretaker." No matter what you call it, a slave still knows he's a slave on the plantation. Extremist groups are getting out of control, on both sides. Someone needs to put a sock in both their mouths. Physician heal thyself! |
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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message k.net... "Fighting for kids" adf wrote in message ... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message ink.net... You've got that backwards. The article says the best interest of the child custody standard was the overriding standard in ALL 50 STATES, but recently , Waahington, and West Virginia adopted legislation or case law precendents which substitutes the old primary caregiver standard for child custody. Thats THREE states, and furthermore it also "Currently, strong efforts are being waged in many states to rescind joint custody legislation and the best interests standard simultaneously". It further suggests that "if" states are to follow the PC, they should have set criteria to determine WHICH parent is more fit to have the children. Which again, as ive said before, this should be done as there are BAD and GOOD parents. So explain for the unenlightened how you can post the majority of states use the primary caregiver standard, and then when the rebuttal comes that your own reference shows all but three states use the best interest of the child standard, how your original position was accurate? However there is a huge amount of obsticles that must be overcome to even get to a point where "women" are not seen just as the PC's, like cultures which are not reflective of any feminist movements or masculist movements. The author points out some: Cultural traditions, reflected in the law, also heavily influence parental decision-making about custody. Mainstream American culture still views women as the appropriate primary caretakers for children after divorce, although the strength of this assumption varies within subcultures. Recent social change which encourages fathers to be more involved during marriage in child rearing responsibilities is primarily a white, middle and upper middle class phenomenon, and is not shared by the cultures of many ethnic and racial minorities in the United States. Therefore, cultural assumptions among these other groups will more often lead to sole mother custody arrangements with limited visiting arrangements. Another attempt to take Dr. Kelly's actual statements out of context. She used those words, but in the context of influences on the custody decision making process. She was referring to the powerful influences from within the legal system, not the lobbying influences from outside the system. The article further states the primary caregiver roles that get defined are the activities typically undertaken by women such as breastfeeding. No weight is given to the father's primary caretaker roles like earning money, playing with the children, encouraging physical and sports activities, coaching a team, etc. You have stated fathers don't want to care for their children. This article says pressure from men's groups have caused changes in custody decisions and men are still concerned the best interest of the child custody standard, as applied by judges, is nothing more than a disguised version of the old primary caregiver standard. I didnt state that ALL fathers dont want to care fo their children. It also makes the following statement about your groups: "The current practice by advocates for small, special interest groups for influencing legislation is to selectively use a certain research finding to bolster a political, or gender-linked point of view, while ignoring other data. Such practices make it very difficult for legislators or judges to achieve a balanced, informed view." Nice try to make it sound like this is a tactic used by father's rights groups only. Dr. Kelly's quote in context includes her comments about the extent to which social science findings should be used in determining custody standards. She did not name any groups that use the tactic of presenting narrowly selected data to advance an agenda, but she implied both sides have used this approach. And her point is a convergence of research findings ahs started to lead the dialogue among those who are more comprehensive and thoughtful. No, im just pointing out that you are not except from her statements, nothing more. So why did you represent Dr. Kelly's comments as being about men's groups? You have made it very clear it is your opinion men have not accepted their financial responsibilities for children, and you have posted numerous sources purported to show men don't pay CS. That tactic is exactly what was pointed out in the paragraph above, i.e. presenting selected data in an attempt to sway the debate in favor of an agenda. It is my opinon that fathers and mothers should be responsible for their children. I have posted numerous sources that site statistics showing some NCP's do not pay support. You have again taken things out of context. The first time I posted it was because we were having an argument brought about by someone here that "men" pay their support. I showed that NCP, both men and women, DONT pay their support. The statistics I posted were about NCP's NOT about men solely. So I guess you will agree that NCP mothers pay CS at a worse rate than NCP fathers since your sources show that is true. However, when I post anything or a comment all of you cry that you want statistical data, yet here you are supporting that all statistics are garbage, that would im assuming include your own statistical data. The problem you have is your statements run counter to the sources you post. It's that simple. The only way mothers can be the primary caregiver in most cses is to narrowly define the role of primary caregiver to mother-provided activities only. Dr. Kelly is saying that is a disservice to the children and the children suffer repercussions in the long term from this biased approach. Dr. Kelly is also saying access needs to be adjusted over time and parents change over time and so should custody orders. Sigh, did I say anything against this postion? Ive said throughout this entire time that BOTH parents should be given access to their children. This discussion included my opinons about 50/50 custody. Someone posted something along the lines of why people dont view men as equal participants in the childs life. My response, which was taken WAY out of context was in reply to this. That we "americans" dont veiw each other as equal in any way shape or form, that we place a value on everything. My example was related to what a teacher and doctor made and why we value one more than the other. This also was twisted into this "lifestyle support" in that I supported it, when I didnt even say I supported it or not. As a matter of fact ive said over and over that "the NCP if ordered to pay any support should be ordered to take care of basic needs and any extraordinary expenses paid by them as a gift directly to the child if they so choose". Why are you introducing CS payments into a discussion of custody decision making? I think you are trying to deflect attention away from your absurd positions that are not backed up by the references you post. I never said that MEN are not as important to children as the female. I did say that for every study that shows one view there is probably another that supports the exact opposite feelings. However, statistics are not relavant apparently. When statistics are used to support a position they are oaky. But when the statistics are used selectively to advance an agenda they are used improperly particularly when contrary evidence is ignored. Better known as special pleading. You are mistakenly associating visitation and access with providing support. They are two different things. However, other research has shown that when access and visitation is not a problem support for children, both monatary and psychological, goes up. Im not associating anything here. I was only quoting what I said, you are the one again that made an assumption. I have made comments about 50/50 custody and "why" in some situations it wouldnt work out, and that often there isnt a true 50/50 split (which this author has pointed out). I have NEVER said fathers shouldnt see their children. I have also made comments that "men" (again in response to the unilateral discussion ONLY) should be responsible for their children that they make, thats it. Ive made comments in response to some of the men here who think "men" in general are getting taken for every penny they have and the basic needs of the child are far less expensive. However, ive never related visiation to payment of child support. So because you posted Dr. Kelly's article does that mean you agree with her conclusions that more liberal access should be the norm, custody orders should be adjusted as the children age, more joint custody should be ordered, and judges need to put aside their personal biases and follow the law? It wasn't what men thought - it was the law before the industrial revolution began when men started to work outside of the family farm or the local town. "In Roman, and later in English common law, children were viewed as the property of the father, who had a legal obligation to protect, support and educate his children. Fathers had the right as well to sell their children, and to enter them into enforced labor. In divorce, until the mid-nineteenth century, fathers had a near absolute right to custody, regardless of circumstances" Dr. Kelly makes it very clear that the way we got to the current screwed up system was because of the intense pressure in the 60's and 70's to adopt laws that retained the maternal custody preferences plus gave more gender favorable treatment to women who were entering the workforce in large numbers and exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. The article says NOTHING about the screw up occuring in the 60's and 70's and it being due to women exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. Nice adding that on the end. Futhermore it specifically states (see below) that this is when the "fathers claim of sex discrimination in custody decisions was challenged and this was the first time that states adopted in the childs best interest rather than the tender years assumption. It further states that the notion of "joint custody" was made in the 70's. Oh really? Then why does the author talk about it taking until the mid-70's for the maternal preference to be successfully challenged after all of the feminist driven advancements for women? I think you are mistaken, the "screw up" was when Freudian Psych Theory was prevalant in the 30's, which moved to keep children with their mothers only ("which focused exclusively on the mother-child relationship, and ignored the role of the father in the child's development"). Previous to this women and children were nothing more than "property" to the father and the mothers had to give the child back to the father when the child was ready to be put to labor or sold. "The maternal presumption for custody remained firm for many decades in the United States, challenged only after the divorce rate began its dramatic rise in the 1960's. Spurred on by fathers' claims of sex discrimination in custody decisions, constitutional concerns for equal protection, the feminist movement, and the entry of large numbers of women into the workforce, most states had substituted the standard of the "best interests of the child" for the tender years presumption by the mid 1970's. For the first time in history, custody decision-making was to be rooted in a consideration of the child's needs and interests, rather than based simply on the gender of the parent. You just proved my point above. That's exactly what Dr. Kelly wrote. The irony is the feminists who fought so hard for these changes and for gender equity are now the greatest opponents to men's claims of sexual discrimination and lack of equal protection under the current laws. Extremist groups are getting out of control, on both sides. Someone needs to put a sock in both their mouths. Not surprisingly, Dr. Kelly came to a few more sophisticated conclusions about the issues of child custody. Read her Policy Recommendations in Custody Determiniations at the end of the article. |
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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
"Kenpangborn" wrote in message ... From: "Fighting for kids" adf Newsgroups: alt.child-support Thats THREE states, and furthermore it also "Currently, strong efforts are being waged in many states to rescind joint custody legislation and the best interests standard simultaneously". Best Interests is a term throw around like it had some precise meaning. Does anyone know what it means? Of course not. It has one meaning in case number 1 and a different meaning in case number 2. It means whatever the judge believes it to mean in any given case. More precisely, "best interests of the child" means "what makes me feel good", when it comes to the family kourt people. The arguments that the states EVER followed any "standard" in custody cases other than fathers always win under the old common law, and the tender years doctrine that means mother always wins (which still permeates custody battles to this day) really are semantic false premises. Cultural traditions, reflected in the law, also heavily influence parental decision-making about custody. Child custody decisions are entirely political, and it's time people grew up and realized that. Mainstream American culture still views women as the appropriate primary caretakers for children after divorce, although the strength of this assumption varies within subcultures Mainstream America still views woman as prisoners of their wombs, it is so pervasive that even NOW falls for it. Recent social change which encourages fathers to be more involved during marriage in child rearing responsibilities is primarily a white, middle and upper middle class phenomenon, and is not shared by the cultures of many ethnic and racial Maybe because those racial groups are smarter than the white folks and know that when white woman speak about fathers being important they know that "white woman speak with forked tongue." If you believe that men are getting any encouragement, even a small amount to be dads, need to visit Net-maven Liz Kates' web site. http://www.thelizlibrary.org/fathers/ If you carefully read Ms. Kates' site, you will see her venom toward fathers, but is Liz Kates speaking for only herself? No, she speaks for much of the women's movement in America. Look at her cross-links to Feminists such as Trish Wilson, Phyllis Chesler, Eleanor Smeal, and many other luminaries of feminism. She speaks for the polemicists, but she also reflects the current level of politics involved with child custody and she reflects the current massive propaganda effort by the extreme culture that dominates feminism today. You may think that the father involvement doesn't resonate in the other racial cultures, it does, but I think it is because of a long legacy of listening to the "shucking and giving" from the "white momma" that they just know better. They know when they are getting played. Therefore, cultural assumptions among these other groups will more often lead to sole mother custody arrangements with limited visiting arrangements. Oh come on. The reason you don 't see African-American dads winning custody is that they can't (by and large) get jobs that would allow then the $30,000 it takes for a dad to win custody. They know that nobody wants then to have their kids, so why get into a fight they can't afford and couldn't win if they could! The first time I posted it was because we were having an argument brought about by someone here that "men" pay their support. I showed that NCP, both men and women, DONT pay their support. The point is that fathers generally DO pay their support. If you look at the statistics, even the hyped statistics, you will see that over 85% of child support IS paid, and the part that isn't paid has lengthy explanations that work. Such as unemployment. And just to defect silly arguments, unemployment his families without a divorce. Adjustments are made... or not. Arguments about child custody and child support are usually framed in ther mindset of whatever axe one brings to the table that influences your particular argument. This is classic war between the genders. I doubt we can ever grow up enough as a species to think past out own selfish interests. Children are merely a pawn to be used on the board game here. Ive said throughout this entire time that BOTH parents should be given access to their children. Oh - as they say; "How mighty WHITE of you." They should be "GIVEN" a nice little present by the STATE.. A GIFT from the Great White Father! ALLOWED to have a relationship with their children. Talk about building a battleship inside out. Did it ever occur to you, or to the rest of the audience here, that the STATE should not interfere with the parent child relationship (meaning CURTAILING IT) unless there is: 1. A COMPELLING state interest, and 2. Clear and convining EVIDENCE that it is NECESSARY for the survival of the child? I never said that MEN are not as important to children as the female. I did say that for every study that shows one view there is probably another that supports the exact opposite feelings. Alas it is right here where our educational system fails us. What IS a "study?" Is an OP -ED piece like that of Dr. Phyllis Chesler a "study?" Is Trish Wilsons ranting and raving a "study?" Are the eruptions on Liz Kates' web site documentary evidence? The system fails us when we have NO critical judgment, when political ranting is mistaken for "science." When we cannot discriminate between valid methodology in a "study" and that which isn't. When we cannot see the political ranting and raving in a Journal Article that separates it from being true "scientific research." And one side is as guilty as the other in this. Going back to what I have now said four times, these arguments are 100% political and NOTHING REMOTELY NEAR "science." And the arguments have nothing whatever to do with what is best for children. I would submit that Liz Kates, Phyllis Chesler as well as some on the other side are TOTALLY clueless about what children really need. The FIRST thing they need is for their STUPID parents to STOP FIGHTING! However, statistics are not relavant apparently Ever hear the old saying; "there are liers, then there are damned liers, and then there are people who USE statistics." It isn't hard to make 2 plus to to add up to 27.3. I have NEVER said fathers shouldnt see their children. How generous of you. That ranks right up there with; "I never said that ALL negroes should be slaves." Ive made comments in response to some of the men here who think "men" in general are getting taken for every penny they have and the basic needs of the child are far less expensive. Oh we never want to talk about the "actual needs" of the children. This is the boys versus the girls. Why bring "facts" into this, we've been doing without them for so long. Have you ever looked at the USDA web site on the REAL costs for raising children? Did you know they exist? They exist not only for just about every region of the United States but are broken down by income levels of the parents. High, medium and low. Can anyone tell me why ONE parent shoulld be responsible for MORE THAN 50% of the ACTUAL needs of the children as the USDA tables document? Why should ONE parent be responsible for 95 or more than 100% of those costs? "In Roman, and later in English common law, children were viewed as the property of the father, who had a legal obligation to protect, support and educate his children. A distortion of a very complex legal system. You use "property" here is a way that wasn't the concept of those times. Fathers had the right as well to sell their children, Propaganda! and to enter them into enforced labor. sigh Later day revisionists. Fathers had the "obligation" to make sure their children could become self supporting. There were no technical schools in those days. What was done was to have a child become an "apprentice." Yes they worked for low wages, but they were learning a trade to support themselves with. Your picture in your argument of fathers "HEARTLESSLY SELLING THEIR CHILDREN INTO SLAVERY" is what I was referring to with the success of political propaganda. In divorce, until the mid-nineteenth century, fathers had a near absolute right to custody, regardless of circumstances" And if we look at out society today, we can see that the change was a mistake. The article says NOTHING about the screw up occuring in the 60's and 70's and it being due to women exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. For whatever the atricle in question mat or my not say, no-fault divorce has proven to be a disaster for children and for society. Previous to this women and children were nothing more than "property" to the father and the mothers had to give the child back to the father when the child was ready to be put to labor or sold. Extremis propaganda. Not historically accurate. most states had substituted the standard of the "best interests of the child" for the tender years presumption by the mid 1970's. Which is precisely like telling a plantation slave; "You're free now, get back out in the damn fields." For the first time in history, custody decision-making was to be rooted in a consideration of the child's needs and interests, rather than based simply on the gender of the parent. Horse feathers! "best Interests" is merely two words meaning the same thing as "Tender years Doctrine." Of course when people caught onto that one, "best interests" has been replaced by "primary caretaker." No matter what you call it, a slave still knows he's a slave on the plantation. Extremist groups are getting out of control, on both sides. Someone needs to put a sock in both their mouths. Physician heal thyself! |
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The Determination of Child Custody in the USA
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