Help! Toddler left in car question

Stephanie wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
news
Nan wrote:
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 01:22:24 GMT, "nimue"
scribbled:


I have buckled up practically all my life -- definitely since I was
about 9 or 10 and we had a car accident we survived thanks to
seatbelts. My husband will NOT wear a seat belt. It's some idiot,
cowboy, Western thing -- don't ask, because I don't know. HOWEVER,
I *might* be able to persuade him if I could convince him that I
was in danger if he didn't wear a seatbelt. I would have to
approach this cautiously. He couldn't feel he was doing it for
his own safety -- no, that would be too unmanly. However, if he
felt he were doing it for me, he might. He is very protective of
me and is very protective of women and children in general. Do
you have any links? I would be ECSTATIC if I could somehow get
him to wear a seatbelt, even if it were only when I was in the
car. That would be wonderful. I can't refuse to get in the car
unless he buckles up -- that would make it a power play and cause
resentment. But, if he felt he were doing it for MY safety --
well, that might work -- and it would be true! Links, please!

A few years ago I was talking to a nurse that worked at our local
hospital. She was working one night when a child, mother and
grandmother came into the ER after a pretty bad auto accident. The
child survived due to being in a carseat properly. The mother and
grandmother weren't wearing seatbelts. They didn't survive. All I
ever had to think about was leaving my children without their mother
and I automatically buckle up.
Perhaps you can approach your dh with, "honey, I know you don't like
wearing a seatbelt, but if we were in an accident and you didn't
survive, it would devastate me to be left without you".

Nan

It would, lord knows. It would be awful. I'll try saying that.
That might help. If he thought his not wearing a seatbelt could put
me and others in the car in physical danger, that would definitely
help more.


I thought seat belts were law almost everywhere in the US now. I
guess I am wrong.

Oh, no -- he gladly breaks that law all the time. He would rather die than,
say, download music illegally (he gets really worked up over that one --
stealing from artists and all) but he gets furious if he thinks someone is
trying to infringe on his right to make his own choices -- hence, no
seatbelt despite the law.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French

Catherine Woodgold wrote:
"nimue" ) writes:
Your friend's decision,
though you may not make that same decision for your own family,
falls in the reasonable range.

I do not think it is reasonable nor does anyone else I have asked --
on this ng and elsewhere -- except you.

I think her decision to leave her child sleeping in
the car for 20 minutes was a reasonable one.

You think it's okay to leave a kid asleep in a car parked on a street for 20
minutes without being able to see or hear her and without checking on her?
Really?

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French

Catherine Woodgold wrote:
"nimue" ) writes:
Thank you. I hope so, too, but if the SCREAMING, FURIOUS message
she just left me on my answering machine is any indication, it won't
work out. It hurts -- I have known her since college -- but I just
could not NOT say something. Man, I just feel pretty down about it.
I fear I may have done her daughter no good and I have lost my
friendship in the bargain.

I'm sorry. She shouldn't yell at you. You were being
true to yourself; you needed to speak up and you did.
That was doing the right thing. I would wait a few days
for her to calm down before worrying too much about
the friendship being over. Meanwhile, best not to
say anything that will lead to even more screaming.
Good luck.

Thanks.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French

nimue wrote:
Catherine Woodgold wrote:
"nimue" ) writes:
Your friend's decision,
though you may not make that same decision for your own family,
falls in the reasonable range.

I do not think it is reasonable nor does anyone else I have asked --
on this ng and elsewhere -- except you.

I think her decision to leave her child sleeping in
the car for 20 minutes was a reasonable one.

You think it's okay to leave a kid asleep in a car parked on a street
for 20 minutes without being able to see or hear her and without
checking on her? Really?

Let me clarify that -- you think it's okay to leave a 2 year old asleep in
a car parked on a streetor 20 minutes without being able to see or hear her
and without checking on her? Really? I don't -- obviously my friend does
and you do, but I don't think it's safe.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French

"nimue" wrote in message
Let me clarify that -- you think it's okay to leave a 2 year old asleep
in
a car parked on a streetor 20 minutes without being able to see or hear
her
and without checking on her? Really? I don't -- obviously my friend does
and you do, but I don't think it's safe.

So when it's your child, you won't then. You will be the perfect parent and
never make any mistakes.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 22:05:58 GMT, "nimue"
wrote:

Oh, no -- he gladly breaks that law all the time. He would rather die than,
say, download music illegally (he gets really worked up over that one --
stealing from artists and all) but he gets furious if he thinks someone is
trying to infringe on his right to make his own choices -- hence, no
seatbelt despite the law.

I found this for you. The law isn't the reason why *I* use seatbelts.
It makes sense in the context of safety for *all* occupants to use
them.

Here's why

http://www.nsc.org/traf/sbc/sbcwhy.htm

Why Safety Belts?

To understand the value of safety belt use, it's important to
understand some of the dynamics of a crash. Every motor v
ehicle crash is actually comprised of three collisions.

The Car's Collision
The first collision is known as the car's collision, which
causes the car to buckle and bend as it hits something and
comes to an abrupt stop. This occurs in approximately one-
tenth of a second. The crushing of the front end absorbs
some of the force of the crash and cushions the rest of the
car. As a result, the passenger compartment comes to a
more gradual stop than the front of the car.

The Human Collision
The second collision occurs as the car's occupants hit
some part of the vehicle. At the moment of impact,
unbelted occupants are still travelling at the vehicle's
original speed. Just after the vehicle comes to a complete
stop, these unbelted occupants will slam into the steering
wheel, the windshield, or some other part of the vehicle
interior. This is the human collision.

Another form of human collision is the person-to-person
impact. Many serious injuries are caused by unbelted
occupants colliding with each other. In a crash, occupants
tend to move toward the point of impact, not away from it.
People in the front seat are often struck by unbelted rear-
seat passengers who have become high-speed
projectiles.

The Internal Collision
Even after the occupant's body comes to a complete stop,
the interal organs are still moving forward. Suddenly, these
organs hit other organs or the skeletal system. This third
collision is the internal collision and often causes serious
or fatal injuries.

So, Why Safety Belts?
During a crash, properly fastened safety belts distribute the
forces of rapid deceleration over larger and stronger parts
of the person's body, such as the chest, hips and shoulders.
The safety belt stretches slightly to slow your body down and
to increase its stopping distance.

The difference between the belted person's stopping distance
and the unbelted person's stopping distance is significant. It's
often the difference between life and death.

Excerpts from "Sudden Impact," NHTSA, 1992.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
I'm going to go against the grain here and tell you that you should
apologize.

I wouldn't say "should" and mean it in the sense of
moral obligation; I'm not sure exactly how Cathy Kearns
means it. I think if you disliked being shouted at so
much that you just decided to end the friendship because
of the shouting, that would be reasonable.

However, if you do want to continue the friendship and are
willing to put some effort into it, then I think bringing
yourself around to being able to apologize is a good
idea.
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.

"bizby40" ) writes:
So, mentioning something to her was probably a good idea, but insisting
either here, or to her, that you are undeniably *right* in your opinion on
the matter is a bad idea.

I agree with this. You can try to influence her, but
it doesn't do any good to try to force an opinion on
her. How does that quote go -- "A man convinced against
his will / is of the same opinion still." (Or woman, I presume.)
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.

"bizby40" ) writes:
But then, that's not a safety issue, so it's not really appriate to bring up
to a parent.

Are you serious? I think it's fine to bring things
up (nicely, diplomatically, gently) if they're important,
whether they're safety issues, nutrition issues, emotional
health issues, or whatever.

Well, maybe not religious issues. :-)
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.

wrote:
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 22:04:23 GMT, "nimue"
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 11:19:29 GMT, "nimue"
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 05:29:37 GMT, "P. Tierney"
wrote:


"nimue" wrote in message
...
toto wrote:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:38:26 GMT, "nimue"
wrote:

In the baby situation, what, pray tell, was I supposed to do?

Read back in some of the posts to the thread.

Several people have said that you might have actually said
"It makes me uncomfortable to leave the baby alone in the
car. I can stay out here and read while you take care of
business inside." That would have kept baby safe and been
less of a criticism of what she did as it would have put the
discomfort on *your* shoulders and not implied a criticism
of her not feeling the same way.

Oh, lord. Yes -- that would have been a good thing to do.
Indeed, I wish I
had done it. However, I was -- gasp! -- human and a bit thrown
by the situation.

But she says she was there to look at the house because she and
her husband were "toying with" the idea of purchasing it. So I
wonder why she wishes she had stayed in the car.

You do? Really? Oy, vey.

Ora

You said you went to look at the house. Now you wish you had not
looked at the house but waited in the car instead while others
looked at the house. Seems like an exercise in futility.

Not as much as talking with you is. Jesus -- haven't YOU ever made
a poor decision or done something you weren't sure about or that you
would do differently if you could. Gods, are you irritating. You
just don't seem to allow for humans to be human.

Ora

Your logic eludes me.
snip

No kidding. I am sure logic usually does.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French