Help! Toddler left in car question

dragonlady ) writes:
In article ,
Nan wrote:

Oh ffs. You're attempting to put the inappropriate action on the
non-parent. It was not her end *responsibility* to watch the child.

I don't know: I have sort of a global approach to responsibility for
children.

I like that. I heard that in Jamaica, all the parents
raise all the children. The children walk in and out of
various houses and the adults feed them and love them
and discipline them.

I don't like the theory that a parent has 100.000% of the
responsibility for a child. I like the idea that other
people -- grandparents, friends, aunts and uncles,
siblings even if they aren't adults, etc., also have
some of the responsibility, even if it's a very small
fraction.

When I see a baby on a bus or someplace I like to try
to entertain the baby by making faces and stuff.
Besides it being fun for me, I figure the parent
shouldn't have to do everything all the time.
Many heads are better than one, and a child who
feels that there are a number of people out there
who love him/her is better off IMO than one who's
ignored by everybody but one or two parents, no
matter how perfect and loving those parents are.
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.

dragonlady ) writes:
I
would NOT call the woman later to tell her that I thought she'd done
something dangerous and wrong.

If I were thinking of doing something like that, I might
do it in person rather than over the phone, because you
can do Active Listening better that way.

Then, if she said something about my husband's seatbelt,
if I saw that her shoulders were drooping, rather than
answering what she said directly I might say something like,
"It's a big burden." (gently.)

Or if she said it with her head back a bit and
wide eyes, I might say "You feel horrified that
I would say that." (gently.)

Or if she rolled her eyes, I might say, "I know it's
exasperating for you to hear this sort of criticism."

That way, I would have cleared my conscience, but I
wouldn't be as likely to get screamed at.
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.

"nimue" ) writes:
dragonlady wrote:
In article ,
"nimue" wrote:


Oh, for the love of god. What kind of game are you playing here? My
question was whether or not others would have done what I did in that
specific situation.

This is the first time you've asked THIS question -- and the answer is
no, I would NOT have done what you did. I would have stayed in the
car with the baby, explaining that leaving the baby there alone made
me uncomfortable. And, if I did nothing in the moment but only became
comfortable enough with my own concern later to want to say
something, I would NOT call the woman later to tell her that I
thought she'd done something dangerous and wrong. I *might* wait for
a couple of weeks, and, without referencing the incident, tell her
I'd just read an article that said (take your pick) that DCS could
remove a child from their parents if the parent left the child
unattended in a car, that the temperature in a car in the sun goes up
frighteningly fast, that . . . well, there might be lots of
approaches. And, if it happened again when I was with her, I'd say,
"Gee, I'm just not comfortable with this, so I'll stay here with the
baby."

So the answer to THIS question is: no, this is not what I would have
done if I were you.

Well, then I was wrong in not staying in the car with the baby. I felt that
it was wrong to leave the baby alone in the car but I didn't say or do
anything because I wasn't sure and I didn't want to offend my friend. Once
I realized I was right, I did what I could to rectify my initial mistake --
I told my friend. Now, what your post is telling me is that my leaving the
baby in the car when I wasn't sure if it was right or wrong makes me worse
than a mother who doesn't even realize her baby shouldn't be left alone in
the car. Then, the fact that I mentioned it later makes me even worse than
I was before because on top of not watching the baby when I felt I should, I
also offended the mother who just didn't know any better. In fact, it would
have been better for me, after my initial mistake of not watching the baby,
to just keep my mouth shut rather than trying to give any advice to my
friend that might help her and her baby in the future. Is this what you are
saying?

--
nimue

Nimue: You asked what others would have done.
Dragonlady told you what she would have done. She did not say
(at least not in what you've quoted here) that you did
wrongly. She did not say that you ought to have done
what she did.

Think about how you feel in response to what
dragonlady said. Now think how much worse you
might feel if someone actually told you that what
you did was wrong. Then try to imagine how
your friend feels.
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.

dragonlady ) writes:
Only one of my kids could get out of their carseat at this age. Most
car seats have the child buckled in pretty safely, and parents know
which kids have Houdini like skills at getting out.

For each kid, there is a first time they get out,
which probably happens when they badly want to get
out, which probably happens when they're left alone
for a long time, I would guess.
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.

Catherine Woodgold wrote:


Penny Gaines ) writes:
The distance from a busy road would be less of a concern to me then
whether
the road the car was parked in was used much. If there were lots of
people
walking past the car, I wouldn't leave the toddler. If there was only
likely to be one or two, I might.

I think it's safer when there are lots of people walking past.
People don't usually commit crimes when there are lots
of witnesses.

I think it depends on the crime.

I think the car is less likely to be stolen when there are lots of people
walking past: if I was concerned about leaving a laptop in the car, then
I think it would be less at risk (in a locked car) when there were more
people around.

OTOH, my feeling is that the toddler is at risk from crimes such as being
kidnapped, and the kind of 'random stranger' who would oppurtunistically(sp)
kidnap a child would be less likely to care if anyone saw them.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

Catherine Woodgold wrote:
Nan ) writes:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 22:16:49 GMT, "Cathy Kearns"
scribbled:
You keep asking what we would do, would we leave a toddler in the
car in this situation. But we know what you would do. You DID
leave the toddler in the car. You walked into the house with the
mother. You left the child. Later you berated the mother for
this. If you truely thought
it was terribly dangerous and truely unacceptable you would have
stayed with the child.

Oh ffs. You're attempting to put the inappropriate action on the
non-parent. It was not her end *responsibility* to watch the child.

OK, sure, it wasn't her responsibility. Nevertheless,
Cathy's point is well-made. If the mother had been
doing something terribly dangerous, nimue, (who cares
about the child), would have intervened. Since she
didn't, we can conclude that nimue didn't feel at
the time that it was terribly dangerous. Uncomfortably
dangerous, yes, but not terribly dangerous.

Well, that explains why I told her to roll down the windows, but didn't say
anything at the time about leaving the baby in the car.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French

"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...

"P. Tierney" ) writes:
Without using anecdotes or examples, how would you define
"putting a child at risk"?

Excellent question. You're an engineer, right?

Thanks, no. My prior job was a teacher (Eng., math, drama).


P. Tierney

P. Tierney wrote:
"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...

"P. Tierney" ) writes:
Without using anecdotes or examples, how would you define
"putting a child at risk"?

Excellent question. You're an engineer, right?

Thanks, no. My prior job was a teacher (Eng., math, drama).


P. Tierney

You taught English AND math? What -- was there a vacancy? I never heard of
such a thing -- well, rarely. In another ng, I was saying that English
teachers, well, HS English teachers, on the whole are not mathematicians.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French

"nimue" wrote in message
...
P. Tierney wrote:
"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...

"P. Tierney" ) writes:
Without using anecdotes or examples, how would you define
"putting a child at risk"?

Excellent question. You're an engineer, right?

Thanks, no. My prior job was a teacher (Eng., math, drama).


You taught English AND math? What -- was there a vacancy? I never heard
of
such a thing -- well, rarely. In another ng, I was saying that English
teachers, well, HS English teachers, on the whole are not mathematicians.

I was HS too. I was going towards an English certification, but I liked
math (esp. Algebra and statistic-related material) and needed only 9 credits
to pick up a math minor certification. So I did it, as I thought that it
would
help my marketability, especially since I thought I'd be a good teacher,
but not the best interview. And, I thought it would vary my day a bit.
When I called schools and told them of my dual certification (the second
of such in my large county, I'm told), I got called in that day for an
interview,
so I guess it worked. ;-) Principals around here like having staff with
such flexibility.

In my nine years, I focused on English mostly, with 1-2 math classes
in each of my first five years. Once drama picked up steam, I asked
to drop math or English, as three subject matters was too much, and
was accommodated by dropping math.


P. Tierney

P. Tierney wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
P. Tierney wrote:
"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...

"P. Tierney" ) writes:
Without using anecdotes or examples, how would you define
"putting a child at risk"?

Excellent question. You're an engineer, right?

Thanks, no. My prior job was a teacher (Eng., math, drama).


You taught English AND math? What -- was there a vacancy? I never
heard of
such a thing -- well, rarely. In another ng, I was saying that
English teachers, well, HS English teachers, on the whole are not
mathematicians.

I was HS too. I was going towards an English certification, but
I liked math (esp. Algebra and statistic-related material) and needed
only 9 credits to pick up a math minor certification. So I did it, as
I thought that it would
help my marketability, especially since I thought I'd be a good
teacher, but not the best interview. And, I thought it would vary my
day a bit. When I called schools and told them of my dual
certification (the second
of such in my large county, I'm told), I got called in that day for an
interview,
so I guess it worked. ;-) Principals around here like having staff
with such flexibility.

In my nine years, I focused on English mostly, with 1-2 math
classes
in each of my first five years. Once drama picked up steam, I asked
to drop math or English, as three subject matters was too much, and
was accommodated by dropping math.

You would be GOLD in the New York City public school system. We are
desperate for math teachers -- desperate for them! I had a disagreement on
another ng recently -- I claimed that most English teachers can't do math,
and someone disagreed -- I still stand by my position but boy are you one
amazing exception!


P.
Tierney

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French