Tips on handling situations?

I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect parent)
but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son that I'm
finding kind of hard to deal with...
Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or we,
are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely
appreciated...

Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone
out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at
least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the first thing was
he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs along a track suspended
from the ceiling and going through the whole restaurant was not running. He
would not sit down, he was doing things to scare DD (almost 9 months) and
not listening. We left to pay the bill as soon as we were done eating, and
while paying, he threw a temper tantrum over a balloon. There were a few
balloons tied to a pillar in the restaurant, and he had wanted one. We left
the restaurant with him bawling over the damn balloon, and when we walked
out the doors, he was right behind me and hit me. I spun around and told
him to hit me again and he wouldn't, and once again, I told him hitting is
not allowed and it's not nice. I asked him if I hit him, and he ignored me,
and I told him that I do not hit him, and he does not need to hit me. He
then refused to get in the car and stayed up on the sidewalk behind some low
bushes, standing there looking at us like we were stupid, still bawling over
that balloon. DH told him to get in his seat now or we would leave without
him, and he finally got in the car, only to sit there screaming. I didn't
even bother to start the car. DH turned around and told him to cut this
garbage out and to stop acting like that, or he'd give him something to cry
about, and told him when we got home, he's up in his room to change and be
in bed. He stopped and we went home, with him then refusing to get out of
the car. I told him it was going to be a very cold and lonely night if he
was locked in the car over night to sleep, and by the time DH was at our
gate and I got DD out of the car, he got out as well. The neighbour boy was
outside, and asked DS if he was coming out to play, and DS instantly turned
around and said he has school tomorrow and it's late. I had to run out, and
not sure how getting him in bed was, but DH said nothing when I got home, so
I assume it was alright.

Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it
always seems to be something.more and more often. What should or shouldn't
be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and shouting and
hittiing him is the way to go. I don't believe that way gets very far, but
I am not all against spanking, getting my panties in a knot over it when
someone suggests or mentions it. I've just found IME that it seems to be
pointless and not the way to get a message across. My parents are from the
days of the strap, I'm from the days of spanking, and it seems DS is from
the days of just not being able to get the message. I've been trying to
keep my calm (yes, I do have a temper when my buttons are pushed) and talk.
He's good at ignoring. Gets that from his dad. How do you deal with a 5
year old just being a downright brat?

Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember where
we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back seat
saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's fine. I
still love you." and he started screaming and saying he hates me over and
over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying my hardest
not to burst out laughing. He then, after about 2 minutes of "I hate you"
over and over again, he gave up when he got no reaction from me when I was
ignoring him, so he went on to say, "I hate Amie (DD)" and I said, "Well,
that's not nice at all. You know she doesn't hate you." and he said he did
not want her to sit next to him in the car, so the next day, I moved her car
seat from the middle seat to the side so they were on opposite sides of the
car. Next day, he said he wanted her seat to beside his seat and said he
does not hate her. Moving her seat, actually, was something I had been
wanting to do for a while, actually, since it made it a lot easier to have
space between the car seat and booster seat to be able to do up the seatbelt
for DS's booster seat. I was actually waiting for the OK from the health
center and also Alberta Transport if my one back shoulder belt would be
alright to use for a baby's seat. They called back and said it was
perfectly fine to use, as since the shoulder belt part won't retract, the
lap part was still just fine and with the locking clip, it would turn into
like a regular lap belt and would be just fine and just as safe to use. I
would have moved her seat over anyways, but I was waiting for the OK that
it's fine. Now about a week later, her seat is still where I had moved it
to, and he doesn't really care any more. Again, in the situation of the "I
hate you" what's the best way to handle it? I've always simply said,
"That's alright. I still love you" but that seems to make him even more
mad, and never before has he said he hates his sister. He has said he hates
me but loves his sister, or he's said to DH or I that he hates one but loves
the other. Should this behavior be ignored completely? What kind of words,
if any, should I say back to him? I find I have trouble NOT laughing, I
just kind of find it funny, and know he doesn't mean it, but still... It's
funny to me, and I know laughing to myself, over the situation or at him is
not the way to go.

We just seem to be having general problems lately. His behavior is often
not at all acceptable. Is there anything that anyone could suggest to maybe
do with him? There's only so much I find I can do... I can only sit down
and color so long, watch TV with him for so long or play a game for so long.
Is there activities that can be done that work around a normal lifestyle?
Is there anything that you've found has worked? Should we walk to the park
more often and let him burn off energy? Should I take away events like
going to the park with bad behavior? A while back elsewhere, someone had
suggested doing like a sticker chart - get a sticker for every day that
there's good behavior or whatever... Would something like that work? List
of activities or doings for every day, and every time during the day that
this is met, should he get one sticker and work up to lots? I don't really
want to try and bribe, reverse mentality doesn't seem to work... Anyone have
any ideas that we can try? Either for DH and him, DS and I, the whole
family?

xkatx wrote:
I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect parent)
but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son that I'm
finding kind of hard to deal with...
Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or we,
are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely
appreciated...

First, I just want to say that you're not alone, and I do remember
times like this when my kids were young! I will do my best to remember
how I learned to handle such scenes, way back when......

Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone
out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at
least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the first thing was
he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs along a track suspended
from the ceiling and going through the whole restaurant was not running. He
would not sit down, he was doing things to scare DD (almost 9 months) and
not listening.

I would've picked him up and taken him out of the restaurant. I would
tell him we were going to sit in the car until he was ready to behave
in the restaurant. I would then sit with him in the car and ignore him
until he was ready to go back in. Yes, it sucks because I might also
miss half the meal, but it's highly effective. It's important to ignore
him during this time-out, because if you don't, he might think next
time, "Gee, I'll act up and then I'll have mom all to myself to play
with in the car."


We left to pay the bill as soon as we were done eating, and
while paying, he threw a temper tantrum over a balloon. There were a few
balloons tied to a pillar in the restaurant, and he had wanted one.

Why didn't he get a balloon? Was there none left by the end of dinner?
Or didn't you want him to have one because of his behavior?

We left
the restaurant with him bawling over the damn balloon, and when we walked
out the doors, he was right behind me and hit me. I spun around and told
him to hit me again and he wouldn't, and once again, I told him hitting is
not allowed and it's not nice.

Talk is good, but you have to follow up with action. In this situation,
I might've strapped him into the car seat immediately, and ignored him
all the way home, even if he was bawling away. But at 5, I guess you
might have issues with keeping him strapped in his car seat.... so I
dunno.. maybe others have suggestions here.

I asked him if I hit him, and he ignored me,
and I told him that I do not hit him, and he does not need to hit me. He
then refused to get in the car and stayed up on the sidewalk behind some low
bushes, standing there looking at us like we were stupid, still bawling over
that balloon. DH told him to get in his seat now or we would leave without
him,

Yes, I would've done that too. I would have calmly left him on the curb
and walked away. I wouldn't have *driven* away, but usually just
turning and walking away like I really meant it was enough to get my
girls quickly following.

and he finally got in the car, only to sit there screaming. I didn't
even bother to start the car. DH turned around and told him to cut this
garbage out and to stop acting like that, or he'd give him something to cry
about, and told him when we got home, he's up in his room to change and be
in bed.

Well, maybe not the best approach, but in situations like this, it's
understandable to be at one's breaking point and have a hard time
remaining calm!!

If I had any presence of mind left at this point, I might've had all of
us but him get out of the car, saying we will not drive home until he
stops crying, and that the rest of us were not going to sit in the car
with him screaming in our ears. I'd have the rest of the family sit
outside the car waiting for him to stop screaming.

He stopped and we went home, with him then refusing to get out of
the car. I told him it was going to be a very cold and lonely night if he
was locked in the car over night to sleep,

Yep, I'd have said that too. And if necessary, walked into the house
without him. However, my kids would've followed quite quickly because
they learned early on I meant business.

and by the time DH was at our
gate and I got DD out of the car, he got out as well. The neighbour boy was
outside, and asked DS if he was coming out to play, and DS instantly turned
around and said he has school tomorrow and it's late. I had to run out, and
not sure how getting him in bed was, but DH said nothing when I got home, so
I assume it was alright.

Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it
always seems to be something.more and more often. What should or shouldn't
be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and shouting and
hittiing him is the way to go. I don't believe that way gets very far, but
I am not all against spanking, getting my panties in a knot over it when
someone suggests or mentions it. I've just found IME that it seems to be
pointless and not the way to get a message across. My parents are from the
days of the strap, I'm from the days of spanking, and it seems DS is from
the days of just not being able to get the message. I've been trying to
keep my calm (yes, I do have a temper when my buttons are pushed) and talk.
He's good at ignoring. Gets that from his dad. How do you deal with a 5
year old just being a downright brat?

I also agree that spanking and yelling and hitting aren't effective.


Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember where
we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back seat
saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's fine. I
still love you."

Yep, that's my approach too.

and he started screaming and saying he hates me over and
over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying my hardest
not to burst out laughing. He then, after about 2 minutes of "I hate you"
over and over again, he gave up when he got no reaction from me when I was
ignoring him, so he went on to say, "I hate Amie (DD)" and I said, "Well,
that's not nice at all. You know she doesn't hate you."

Hmmmmm......... DD is only 9 months old. Perhaps your DS is having some
sibling rivalry issues? Maybe this was his way of expressing the
conflict in his mind, that he's supposed to love his baby sister, but
he's feeling shortchanged because he has to now share his parents with
her?


Again, in the situation of the "I
hate you" what's the best way to handle it? I've always simply said,
"That's alright. I still love you" but that seems to make him even more
mad, and never before has he said he hates his sister. He has said he hates
me but loves his sister, or he's said to DH or I that he hates one but loves
the other. Should this behavior be ignored completely? What kind of words,
if any, should I say back to him? I find I have trouble NOT laughing, I
just kind of find it funny, and know he doesn't mean it, but still... It's
funny to me, and I know laughing to myself, over the situation or at him is
not the way to go.

At 5 kids don't have a very advanced vocabularly to describe their
emotions. He may be struggling with emotions over his baby sister, less
time with mom and dad, and stress that a baby in the family creates.
But his vocabularly may be too simple to describe all this: it's either
"love" or "hate." And your son's true feelings are much more
complicated than that.

You can teach him new words to describe what he's feeling. Try drawing
him out, "I know it must be hard sharing your parents with your DD.
She's cute and all that, but maybe you feel resentment? That would be
normal." See how you help him to articulate what he might be feeling,
and give him a label for it that's more useful and accurate than
"hate." ?

We just seem to be having general problems lately. His behavior is often
not at all acceptable. Is there anything that anyone could suggest to maybe
do with him? There's only so much I find I can do... I can only sit down
and color so long, watch TV with him for so long or play a game for so long.
Is there activities that can be done that work around a normal lifestyle?

The single best thing I did at that age, particularly when DD#2 came
along, is ensure that I spent one-on-one time with each of them very
early in the day. Even just 20 minutes during which I was fully, 100%
focused on them, made a *huge* difference in the tenor of the rest of
the day. For example, consider switching bedtime reading to morning for
awhile. Or just set aside 20-30 minutes of time in the morning where DS
gets to pick the activity and you fully participate and tune into him.

If you can do this early in the day, you may find, like I did, that he
will be more content playing on his own later, less demanding of your
attentions and competing less with DD.


jen

xkatx writes:
We just seem to be having general problems lately. His behavior is often
not at all acceptable. Is there anything that anyone could suggest to
maybe do with him?

First sympathy! This sounds very stressful for you all. And a caveat: my
son is only 2.5yo, so not much relevant personal experience from me.

I think my number 1 priority would be to try to work out *why* his
behaviour has deteriorated recently; and maybe there's a little bit of
pre-work to that, which is to check, has it actually deteriorated much, or
is it partly just that because your DD needs more attention as she gets
(presumably) mobile you need him to behave better with less attention, and
he's not meeting that challenge?

The upheaval caused by the arrival of DD is I suppose the obvious place to
look for a reason; are there other possibilities too? E.g. has he recently
started school, or something like that? You sound a bit distressed about
your tendency to find his behaviour funny; I notice in myself that that
seems to happen, against my will, when I really have no idea what's going
on for my son, and that if I do understand why he's behaving the way he is
I'm more inclined to feel sympathetic.

Should we walk to the park more often and let him burn off energy?

I only have a 2yo, but for him, and I've heard often for older children
too, yes, getting out is really important.

Should I take away events like going to the park with bad behavior?

Certainly some people would advise this: it depends on how it fits into
your parenting style, and how you think he'd react. I *would* do things
like going home if he's being a right pain instead of following a plan to
go to the park right then. I think taking away going to the park
significantly *later* because of bad behaviour *now* is something quite
different, and personally I don't like it much; guiding behaviour by
threats and rewards feels too much like dog training to me (and besides,
there's the lovely quote "Children are beautiful behaviourists, and so much
better at it than their parents" :-) I'd far rather, if at all possible,
that my DS learned to behave well because he feels he understands why it's
a good idea in general, rather than just because of how I'll react. So far,
we've managed to get by using other techniques like problem solvingn (in
2yo fashion :-) and explaining our expectations. I'm waiting for a book by
Kohn called Unconditional Parenting which apparently puts this approach
into a good framework, but haven't read it yet. While I'm on the book
theme, a book I do have and really love is How to Talk so Kids will Listen
and Listen so Kids will Talk. I found this one very practical (unlike the
Kohn, about which a common complaint is that it tells you what not to do
but not what to do instead). It has the advantage that key points are
illustrated in pretty good cartoons, and there are good summaries, so it's
easy to skim and easy to refer back to.

A while back elsewhere, someone had suggested doing like a sticker
chart - get a sticker for every day that there's good behavior or
whatever... Would something like that work?

Same kind of objections from me as above, but some people find they work.
The more specific the better, I think - "good behaviour for a whole day" is
probably too vague.

List of activities or doings for every day, and every time during the
day that this is met, should he get one sticker and work up to lots?

That sounds a bit better; but again, I think I'd tend more to point out how
much more fun it is when he behaves, and quietly make sure that's true...

The only thing that really jumped out at me in your stories was that there
were several occasions where you or your DH made a threat that you actually
couldn't have implemented (leaving without him, leaving him outside in the
car all night). I suggest that that may be a mistake, because sooner or
later, he may call your bluff; also, if there are threats that you actually
do decide you want to implement, like not going to the park, he may be less
inclined to believe them if he knows you sometimes make "fake" threats.

Hopefully people who've actually been through things closer to this may
have better ideas...

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

Wow. I don't have any better suggestions than what you're doing, but if
your kid is 5, it means my 2-year-old is ahead of the curve.

:^)

Good luck!

I think you are doing just fine, in general! It's
so tough with kids, especially when they're tantruming.
I haven't figured out the answers yet, but here I
am, responding to your post!

xkatx wrote:

Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone
out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at
least. DS hadn't behaved very well.

One thing I do is I never let my kids go to a
restaurant hungry. Just like any parties or
anything. I feed them first, that way, they
have good blood sugar, it doesn't matter if
service takes a bit long, I can feed them little
bits of interesting food, I can feed myself.

Now, that is the ideal. It doesn't always work
out that way. Even if they are fed, they do
sometimes fuss in restaurants.

Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it
always seems to be something.more and more often. What should or shouldn't
be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and shouting and
hittiing him is the way to go.

I don't believe in hitting, either, but sometimes
I have to yell. ;( One thing Pillbug does is
pull my ponytail, but he only does it when he's
angry and crying. So, I have to yell for him to
stop that for him to even hear me. That makes me
look really bad in front of other people, like
the occupational therapist...

Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember where
we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back seat
saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's fine. I
still love you." and he started screaming and saying he hates me over and
over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying my hardest
not to burst out laughing.

This is about all I would do. Pillbug doesn't
talk, but when he makes angry screeches from the
back of the car, I talk to him calmly. After
awhile, I turn on the radio and ignore him.

Is there anything that you've found has worked? Should we walk to the park
more often and let him burn off energy? Should I take away events like
going to the park with bad behavior?

We *always* go out. It's for my sanity as well
as for the kids to burn off energy. Pillbug
would never understand the cause and effect of
taking away the park (well, he doesn't understand
much cause and effect anyway), so that would not
work for me.

Sorry, no real ideas. Just know that I'm also
there.

-- Anita --

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:34:40 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:

I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect parent)

Hey, we all have our days. If you were perfect, you would not be
human.

but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son that I'm
finding kind of hard to deal with...

k

Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or we,
are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely
appreciated...

Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone
out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at
least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the first thing was
he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs along a track suspended
from the ceiling and going through the whole restaurant was not running. He
would not sit down, he was doing things to scare DD (almost 9 months) and
not listening.

At this point, I would have forgone the dinner and left. I might
have arranged to leave him home with a babysitter and gone
out to dinner the following evening without him.

We left to pay the bill as soon as we were done eating, and
while paying, he threw a temper tantrum over a balloon. There were a few
balloons tied to a pillar in the restaurant, and he had wanted one. We left
the restaurant with him bawling over the damn balloon, and when we walked
out the doors,

Ignore the tantrum entirely even though it's not easy.

he was right behind me and hit me. I spun around and told
him to hit me again

Why would you ask him to hit you again? You are telling him that
hitting is not acceptable, but reacting with asking him to repeat the
misbehavior? I can understand that you were angry though.

and he wouldn't, and once again, I told him hitting is not allowed
and it's not nice.

He already knows that I am sure. Since he hit you in the back, this
is hard to deal with. I don't think I would have tried to reason with
him at this point about hitting. He knows it's wrong already.

I asked him if I hit him, and he ignored me, and I told him that I do not
hit him, and he does not need to hit me.

I understand how frustrating this must have been for you.

He then refused to get in the car and stayed up on the sidewalk
behind some low bushes, standing there looking at us like we were
stupid, still bawling over that balloon.

Here it might help to just acknowledge his feelings. *I can see
you are sad that you can't have the balloon* (Btw, was this
your choice because of his bad behavior or was the restaurant
not giving the balloons away? - just curious)

DH told him to get in his seat now or we would leave without
him, and he finally got in the car, only to sit there screaming.

Don't threaten something you cannot follow through on.

I didn't even bother to start the car. DH turned around and told him
to cut this garbage out and to stop acting like that, or he'd give him
something to cry about,

I really hate this line. Does your dh really think it will stop a
child from crying to *give him something to cry for?*

and told him when we got home, he's up in his room to change and
be in bed. He stopped and we went home, with him then refusing to
get out of the car. I told him it was going to be a very cold and lonely
night if he was locked in the car over night to sleep, and by the time
DH was at our gate and I got DD out of the car, he got out as well.

I hear your frustration, but again, making threats you know you cannot
follow through with is pretty unhelpful. I am assuming you would not
have left him in the car overnight if he had refused to get out.
Better, imo, to say nothing and simply carry him out of the car.

The neighbour boy was outside, and asked DS if he was coming out
to play, and DS instantly turned around and said he has school tomorrow
and it's late. I had to run out, and not sure how getting him in bed was,
but DH said nothing when I got home, so I assume it was alright.

It's ok for your son to save face with his friend.

Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it
always seems to be something.more and more often. What should
or shouldn't be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and
shouting and hittiing him is the way to go. I don't believe that way
gets very far, but I am not all against spanking, getting my panties in
a knot over it when someone suggests or mentions it. I've just found
IME that it seems to be pointless and not the way to get a message
across. My parents are from the days of the strap, I'm from the days
of spanking, and it seems DS is from the days of just not being able
to get the message. I've been trying to keep my calm (yes, I do have
a temper when my buttons are pushed) and talk. He's good at ignoring.
Gets that from his dad. How do you deal with a 5 year old just being a
downright brat?

The first thing to try to do (no, not easy, but essential) is to clear
your mind of the label. He's not a brat, he is in need of learning
how to behave. Instead of telling him what he can't do, try to state
what he can do. *You can run around outside after dinner* Use
when then statements *When we finish are meal, then you can play
with your blocks (or something else he really wants to do).

Prepare him ahead of time when you are going out by asking him
to tell you what the rules are if he knows them or restating them
clearly for him before you go. *When we get to the restaurant, we
will all sit down and have our meal. You will get to pick out your
meal. We will have some toys at the table to play with (coloring
books work if he likes to draw or bring some small toys he can
play with quietly while you wait for the meal).* Try to have
something that will occupy him in situations where you know he
has trouble behaving.

Give him warnings of transitions. *When you finish that puzzle, then
it will be time to get on your jacket* *When the timer rings (a
kitchen timer is a great investment and you can bring it with you
when you are out), then it will be time to leave.*

I think you need to be proactive with him when he is calm to try to
teach him how to handle his emotions in a better way.

You may want to read *How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen
So Kids Will Talk* by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. This will
give you some ways to change how you talk to him and get away
from labelling him a brat. He may be acting out partly because he
sees this as his *role* I know you probably don't call him a brat to
his face, but your reaction to his behavior does show him that he
is labelled that way.

I would read some books with him that help him deal with angry
feelings. A really good one for five year olds is *It's Hard to Be
Five : Learning How to Work My Control Panel* by Jamie Lee Curtis
I also like *When Sophie Gets Angry, Very, Very Angry* by Molly Bang

You can also try role playing with him. Use puppets or just play the
roles yourself. Try different scenes and have him come up with
different ways he could have acted that would not make anyone mad.

When he is angry, try to acknowledge his feelings even though you
don't like his behavior. Just saying *I can see you are angry
about....* can often defuse anger. You can also try humor. *I'm the
dinosaur monster and I'm going to tickle your angries out* Sometimes
that kind of thing works to get everyone laughing instead of being
angry.

When he is calm try teaching him how to breathe for stress relief.
I posted the techniques we show preschoolers in a thread FAO Catherine
W recently. I can repost that if you wish. After you teach it, then
you can use it when he is angry by saying breathe and doing one of the
breathing techniques yourself to help start him off.

Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember where
we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back seat
saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's fine. I
still love you." and he started screaming and saying he hates me over and
over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying my hardest
not to burst out laughing. He then, after about 2 minutes of "I hate you"
over and over again, he gave up when he got no reaction from me when I was
ignoring him, so he went on to say, "I hate Amie (DD)" and I said, "Well,
that's not nice at all. You know she doesn't hate you." and he said he did
not want her to sit next to him in the car, so the next day, I moved her car
seat from the middle seat to the side so they were on opposite sides of the
car. Next day, he said he wanted her seat to beside his seat and said he
does not hate her. Moving her seat, actually, was something I had been
wanting to do for a while, actually, since it made it a lot easier to have
space between the car seat and booster seat to be able to do up the seatbelt
for DS's booster seat. I was actually waiting for the OK from the health
center and also Alberta Transport if my one back shoulder belt would be
alright to use for a baby's seat. They called back and said it was
perfectly fine to use, as since the shoulder belt part won't retract, the
lap part was still just fine and with the locking clip, it would turn into
like a regular lap belt and would be just fine and just as safe to use. I
would have moved her seat over anyways, but I was waiting for the OK that
it's fine. Now about a week later, her seat is still where I had moved it
to, and he doesn't really care any more. Again, in the situation of the "I
hate you" what's the best way to handle it? I've always simply said,
"That's alright. I still love you" but that seems to make him even more
mad, and never before has he said he hates his sister. He has said he hates
me but loves his sister, or he's said to DH or I that he hates one but loves
the other. Should this behavior be ignored completely? What kind of words,
if any, should I say back to him? I find I have trouble NOT laughing, I
just kind of find it funny, and know he doesn't mean it, but still... It's
funny to me, and I know laughing to myself, over the situation or at him is
not the way to go.

I understand your reaction. You might try saying *I know you are
angry with me right now.* As to his saying he hates his sister, you
can acknowledge that too. *Sometimes babies are annoying.*
You may want to read some books about how babies are annoying
and let him express his frustrations about having a baby around.
Sure, he loves her, but it's still a pain when she gets into his toys
and wrecks his block towers, etc. I recommend *Nobody Asked Me
If I Wanted a Baby Sister* by Martha Alexander.

You may want to read *Siblings without Rivalry* by Adele Faber and
Elaine Mazlish for tips on keeping rivalry to a minimum as the baby
grows older.

We just seem to be having general problems lately. His behavior is often
not at all acceptable. Is there anything that anyone could suggest to maybe
do with him? There's only so much I find I can do... I can only sit down
and color so long, watch TV with him for so long or play a game for so long.
Is there activities that can be done that work around a normal lifestyle?
Is there anything that you've found has worked? Should we walk to the park
more often and let him burn off energy?

This might be helpful and both he and baby would probably enjoy it.

Should I take away events like going to the park with bad behavior?

No, I would not suggest that. All that will do is make things worse,
imo.

A while back elsewhere, someone had suggested doing like a sticker chart
- get a sticker for every day that there's good behavior or whatever...
Would something like that work?

Too general and it will backfire, imo.

You may want to do a sticker chart for one specific behavior
though just to get him started on doing something good. I think
that you can't do it for *good behavior* in general though.

Pick ONE thing to focus on and pick something positive that
is not too hard to monitor.

List of activities or doings for every day, and every time during
the day that this is met, should he get one sticker and work up
to lots? I don't really want to try and bribe, reverse mentality
doesn't seem to work... Anyone have any ideas that we can try?
Either for DH and him, DS and I, the whole family?

I would do a lot of catching him being good. Ignore the bad behaviors
as much as you can and focus on the good ones you want to see more
of. Don't overpraise, but notice and encourage. When he is playing
quietly by himself, for example, say *you played a long time by
yourself. Do you want me to play with you for a while now?* When
he cleans up, say *you put all the blocks away* When he helps you
with something say *that was a big help,* etc.

The listening is a bit harder to deal with, but....

First of all, monitor how you listen to him. You should make sure
that when he wants to tell you something, you are attentive and that
you don't allow adult conversation to *interrupt* him. If an adult
wants to talk to you when he is trying to talk to you, ask the adult
politely to wait until your conversation with ds is done.

Second, try to eliminate all the threats. Say something once and
than act to get compliance. Do wait for a short while for compliance,
but if it does not happen, you need to act to enforce it or to give
him a consequence right away. Make sure that you have his attention
when you ask for compliance. Don't yell across the room. Go up to
him and touch him if necessary.

You have a difficult situation to deal with. You are not alone. The
ages of 4 and 5 are difficult ages to deal with.

Good luck!

Dorothy

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

xkatx wrote:
I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect parent)
but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son that I'm
finding kind of hard to deal with...
Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or we,
are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely
appreciated...

(snip a bunch of stuff that sounds reeeeally familiar...)

We have had a lot of similar sounding behavior issues with my ds1, now
almost 6. My short answer is that I think you can partly approach this
with a behavior modification type reward program and partly it's a
maturity issue and he'll eventually grow out of some of these behaviors.

We felt like we were still waiting for ds to grow out of the terrible
twos at three, four, and five. Then we moved across the country, leaving
everyone and everything ds ever knew, had a very busy and hectic summer
with a very unpredictable lack of daily routine while we were settling
in. Ds' behavior was really off the wall, to the point where I was
looking up diagnoses of oppositional defiant disorder. Come fall, ds
started school and dh started school and work. We were finally in a
predictable daily routine and as ds settled into school and became
comfortable with the teacher and made some new friends, his behavior did
start to change. There are some issues we're still dealing with upon
ocassion, but the daily meltdowns and lack of cooperation have decreased
significantly. I am a bit concerned about summer, as I am without a car
and we will likely move again. I'm trying to come to terms with how to
manage the summer, because I know lack of routine and daily activities
exacerbates the behavior.

I've also been working hard on checking my reactions, which I admit can
be rather volatile and counterproductive when I'm feeling stressed and
rundown from being on duty 24/7 with little relief. Our main potential
for problems now are with dh on weekends and the ocassional evenings
he's home (school at night). Dh is also tired and stressed, and has a
tendency to explode rather than talk it through, and ds feeds right into
this because he's annoyed about dh not being around a lot. They really
push each others buttons.

As far as behavior modification schemes, we came up with a chart last
summer that had two parts. We had a dry erase board and red and green
markers to write down both good and bad behaviors throughout the day.
This allowed him to view the chart during the day and gauge his own
behavior and see which direction things were heading and sometimes he
did a good job checking himself and saving the day.(This was after a
discussion outlining the specific behaviors we needed to improve upon -
ie, cooperation getting in and out of the car, behavior in the grocery
store, etc.) At the end of the day before going up to bed, we'd tally up
the reds and greens.

We had a second part to the chart which was a graduated list of
priviledges that could be earned or lost - if he had more greens he went
up and earned a privilege like an extra tv show, an extra book at night,
etc. If more reds, he went down the chart and lost all privileges above
and maybe got down to losing a toy that had to be earned back. I
actually made this graduated privilege portion in red at the bottom,
yellow in the middle and green at the top, each section containing 3-4
privileges. The yellow section in the middle contained privileges which
we considered a part of everyday life for a reasonably behaved kid such
as two tv shows, computer time, etc. So life lived in the red zone was
very sorry indeed (and there were two particular sets of antics which
were a huge problem for me that were an automatic trip to the bottom of
the red if he didn't stop after being reminded). Life lived in the green
zone was idyllic with extra privilges and for considerable time (a week
or more) spent in the green, there were events in the public realm such
as bowling, a movie in a theater, etc. as behavior in public was a big
problem which needed sorting.

All of the above was on top of basic understandings such as
non-cooperation at the playground or in the library meant he'd be left
home or in the car with one annoyed parent next time, and we still have
an evening routine in place for the getting ready for bed issues, which
involves a timer and activities divided into three groupings for which
each group completed successfully and in time and with a general spirit
of cooperation, a bedtime book is earned for a total of three.

As of a few months ago, I decided to disband the chart system, as his
behavior had improved to a general level of reasonableness. As I said,
there are some issues when dh is around, but that situation has as much
to do with dh as ds. Good luck, I know how hard it is with a kid acting
like this, and i honestly feel in some ways with my ds this is just a
reflection of his personality and the kind of person he's going to be
going through life (for good and bad). Dh's family always acted like we
just needed to tell him "no" more often and his behavior would resolve
(where they got the idea I was being a doormat to this kid I'll never
know), but it was soooo beyond that and they never got it, especially
because The Other Grandchild was one of those easy sheep children who
always did as she was told and never, ever acted out. I personally
thought there was something wrong with her and was glad mine at least
had some spunk! Now our second one is way easier with a much sunnier
disposition and their second one is apparently much more of a handful. I
can't help but feel a tiny bit smug about that!

-Karen, mom to Henry almost 6 and William 2-

"shinypenny" wrote in message
oups.com...

xkatx wrote:
I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect
parent)
but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son that I'm
finding kind of hard to deal with...
Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or
we,
are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely
appreciated...

First, I just want to say that you're not alone, and I do remember
times like this when my kids were young! I will do my best to remember
how I learned to handle such scenes, way back when......

Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone
out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at
least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the first thing
was
he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs along a track
suspended
from the ceiling and going through the whole restaurant was not running.
He
would not sit down, he was doing things to scare DD (almost 9 months) and
not listening.

I would've picked him up and taken him out of the restaurant. I would
tell him we were going to sit in the car until he was ready to behave
in the restaurant. I would then sit with him in the car and ignore him
until he was ready to go back in. Yes, it sucks because I might also
miss half the meal, but it's highly effective. It's important to ignore
him during this time-out, because if you don't, he might think next
time, "Gee, I'll act up and then I'll have mom all to myself to play
with in the car."

Maybe this might be a good thing to try... The thing about dragging him out
of any place is I would be dragging him out kicking and screaming. Quite
frankly, I don't care if people stand around with their mouthes hanging wide
open, staring at me. I bet that this person who seems to stand there
staring has thrown a temper tantrum themselves when they were younger or has
had a child toss a good one at some point. I really can't carry him much
anymore with being pregnant and having back/spine issues, but I'm sure I
could manage on occasion if need be Sending DH out to the car, I know,
is a bad idea, simply because DH was raised on threats and does the same,
and I know with DH and DS out in the car, DD and I would be waiting until
Christmas for them to come back in! lol
I'm good at ignoring him when he acts up - most of the time.

We left to pay the bill as soon as we were done eating, and
while paying, he threw a temper tantrum over a balloon. There were a few
balloons tied to a pillar in the restaurant, and he had wanted one.

Why didn't he get a balloon? Was there none left by the end of dinner?
Or didn't you want him to have one because of his behavior?

No other kids in the restauruant walked out with a balloon... Never before
in that restaurant has he walked out with a balloon - good behavior or not.
I didn't know if the balloons were for sale, for free or for decorations,
and yes, because of his behavior, I wasn't about to ask the waitress about
the balloons. To be honest, though, I was quite tempted - for just a
second - to request a balloon for DD, who was a very good little girl during
supper, but I didn't. I wasn't in the mood to act like a jerk to a 5 year
old, and I saw no point. I should, however, be able to say no about
something, and that should be expected. Now, had I said no and he asked for
a reason, I do think he's entitled to a reason behind an answer, but he did
not ask why he could not have a balloon, and I didn't offer him a reason
either.

We left
the restaurant with him bawling over the damn balloon, and when we walked
out the doors, he was right behind me and hit me. I spun around and told
him to hit me again and he wouldn't, and once again, I told him hitting
is
not allowed and it's not nice.

Talk is good, but you have to follow up with action. In this situation,
I might've strapped him into the car seat immediately, and ignored him
all the way home, even if he was bawling away. But at 5, I guess you
might have issues with keeping him strapped in his car seat.... so I
dunno.. maybe others have suggestions here.

Luckily, the restaurant is about 3 minutes down the road. He knows very
well to, no matter what, keep that seatbelt on, and keep it on properly.
Him taking off his seatbelt has not ever once been an issue since that car
accident where I had stressed how important it is to always wear your
seatbelt in any car, all the time. We has a couple problems with him taking
off his seatbelt when we got somewhere, or, rather, when he felt we got
there, but I had made it clear that as long as the car was turned on OR we
were on the road (pulled over on the side of the road, parked on the road,
whatever) that seatbelt is to stay on and in those cases, I will take his
seatbelt off for him. Otherwise, parking lots, driveways, he is allowed to
unbuckle when the car has been turned OFF.
I cannot drive with major child distractions. I always have to pull over if
the baby starts something and is crying, and I just cannot drive with
someone yelling and shouting. A car is just too small of a place to ignore
screaming or crying. I just can't handle that, and that's been since when
about DD was born and her constant crying had made me want to swerve the car
into oncoming traffic or off the road or something, thinking doing that
would end the crying and screaming right away. PND support groups helped me
out tons with that one, though And now the only way I can do it is if
there's not unnecessary screaming, shouting, bickering, arguing, crying.

I asked him if I hit him, and he ignored me,
and I told him that I do not hit him, and he does not need to hit me. He
then refused to get in the car and stayed up on the sidewalk behind some
low
bushes, standing there looking at us like we were stupid, still bawling
over
that balloon. DH told him to get in his seat now or we would leave
without
him,

Yes, I would've done that too. I would have calmly left him on the curb
and walked away. I wouldn't have *driven* away, but usually just
turning and walking away like I really meant it was enough to get my
girls quickly following.

I've gone so far as to start the car. That does send him running to the
car. Never driven off, never even put the car in gear. I had just let him
stand there yelling whatever he was yelling and I put DD in the car. By the
time I was done, he was sitting in his seat.

and he finally got in the car, only to sit there screaming. I didn't
even bother to start the car. DH turned around and told him to cut this
garbage out and to stop acting like that, or he'd give him something to
cry
about, and told him when we got home, he's up in his room to change and
be
in bed.

Well, maybe not the best approach, but in situations like this, it's
understandable to be at one's breaking point and have a hard time
remaining calm!!

Oh, I know it wasn't the best approach and way to handle it. At this point,
he had not behaved at all during supper, dropped a knife not once, but three
times, had to be told to sit down too many times to count, mouthed me off
about 3 times, the list goes on

If I had any presence of mind left at this point, I might've had all of
us but him get out of the car, saying we will not drive home until he
stops crying, and that the rest of us were not going to sit in the car
with him screaming in our ears. I'd have the rest of the family sit
outside the car waiting for him to stop screaming.

I have tried that once. I told him he is to stay with his seatbelt on, I
got out of the car, closed the door, leaned up against my door and lit a
smoke and just stood there listening to him scream, and he had been sitting
there kicking my car seats. I then opened the door and told him that
grandpa would NOT like to hear what he was doing to our car (and this is
true, as grandpa would NOT be happy with him if he heard about kicking the
seats) and DS knew that. He had stopped kicking the seats, I had finished
my smoke, he was quiet. I sat back down in the car just to get right up and
out again and light another smoke to fill the time, and stood outside the
car while he then hit the door and window. I opened the door and asked him
if he would like the glass to break and cut him because if he kept hitting
the door/window, the window could break and that him cleaning up glass would
not be fun.

He stopped and we went home, with him then refusing to get out of
the car. I told him it was going to be a very cold and lonely night if
he
was locked in the car over night to sleep,

Yep, I'd have said that too. And if necessary, walked into the house
without him. However, my kids would've followed quite quickly because
they learned early on I meant business.

It didn't take him long to follow.

and by the time DH was at our
gate and I got DD out of the car, he got out as well. The neighbour boy
was
outside, and asked DS if he was coming out to play, and DS instantly
turned
around and said he has school tomorrow and it's late. I had to run out,
and
not sure how getting him in bed was, but DH said nothing when I got home,
so
I assume it was alright.

Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it
always seems to be something.more and more often. What should or
shouldn't
be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and shouting and
hittiing him is the way to go. I don't believe that way gets very far,
but
I am not all against spanking, getting my panties in a knot over it when
someone suggests or mentions it. I've just found IME that it seems to be
pointless and not the way to get a message across. My parents are from
the
days of the strap, I'm from the days of spanking, and it seems DS is from
the days of just not being able to get the message. I've been trying to
keep my calm (yes, I do have a temper when my buttons are pushed) and
talk.
He's good at ignoring. Gets that from his dad. How do you deal with a 5
year old just being a downright brat?

I also agree that spanking and yelling and hitting aren't effective.

I just don't see the point. I have yet to see that spanking and shouting
like a fool actually work, but if I saw it did work, I'd definitely give it
a go. Yet to see how spanking and yelling helps any situation, as I find it
actually makes a situation more stressful and harder to deal with.

Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember
where
we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back seat
saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's fine.
I
still love you."

Yep, that's my approach too.

I find it kind of funny... I reply with an overly nice reply of, "That's
fine. I still love you!" every single time. He then yells at me. This has
been more and more lately, but when he does get upset, he has done it before
in the past. I know I said it, and I've heard other kids say it, so I know
it's a common thing for kids to say It doesn't bother me one bit because
it's always when he's downright ****ed off. Yes, I find it funny! No, I
can't control my smiling... It's enough to control bursting out laughing out
loud!

and he started screaming and saying he hates me over and
over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying my
hardest
not to burst out laughing. He then, after about 2 minutes of "I hate
you"
over and over again, he gave up when he got no reaction from me when I
was
ignoring him, so he went on to say, "I hate Amie (DD)" and I said, "Well,
that's not nice at all. You know she doesn't hate you."

Hmmmmm......... DD is only 9 months old. Perhaps your DS is having some
sibling rivalry issues? Maybe this was his way of expressing the
conflict in his mind, that he's supposed to love his baby sister, but
he's feeling shortchanged because he has to now share his parents with
her?

Actually, I have yet to see that one bit. Everywhere he goes, everyone he
sees, no matter what, he always brags about his baby sister and tells
everyone about her. He has never once said anything bad about her, other
than when she crys, she gives him a headache, yet that's not really much of
a complaint about her, really. The only other thing is that he doesn't like
it when she gets into his drawings and eats/rips his papers up. I just tell
him she's a baby and doesn't know any better and he needs to put his papers
away where she can't get them, and I tell him I'm sure he can draw that
picture again, and maybe even make it better. That seems to be enough to
make him happy and not worry about it. He has never really shown anything
else that would cause concern or make me think he might have some
resentment. He's always happy to sit with her, play with her, even help
change diapers - but no, he won't touch a poopy diaper

Again, in the situation of the "I
hate you" what's the best way to handle it? I've always simply said,
"That's alright. I still love you" but that seems to make him even more
mad, and never before has he said he hates his sister. He has said he
hates
me but loves his sister, or he's said to DH or I that he hates one but
loves
the other. Should this behavior be ignored completely? What kind of
words,
if any, should I say back to him? I find I have trouble NOT laughing, I
just kind of find it funny, and know he doesn't mean it, but still...
It's
funny to me, and I know laughing to myself, over the situation or at him
is
not the way to go.

At 5 kids don't have a very advanced vocabularly to describe their
emotions. He may be struggling with emotions over his baby sister, less
time with mom and dad, and stress that a baby in the family creates.
But his vocabularly may be too simple to describe all this: it's either
"love" or "hate." And your son's true feelings are much more
complicated than that.

You can teach him new words to describe what he's feeling. Try drawing
him out, "I know it must be hard sharing your parents with your DD.
She's cute and all that, but maybe you feel resentment? That would be
normal." See how you help him to articulate what he might be feeling,
and give him a label for it that's more useful and accurate than
"hate." ?

Yes, I've noticed it's always hate or love. Nothing really in between. The
love comes whenever, the hate comes when he's angry. I sometimes get that
hate can sometimes mean I'm mad at you, not really I don't like you. He
doesn't like tomatos and mushrooms, but maybe he sees that as different, and
I hate you and I don't like what you did/said/whatever can mean the same
things to him.

We just seem to be having general problems lately. His behavior is often
not at all acceptable. Is there anything that anyone could suggest to
maybe
do with him? There's only so much I find I can do... I can only sit down
and color so long, watch TV with him for so long or play a game for so
long.
Is there activities that can be done that work around a normal lifestyle?

The single best thing I did at that age, particularly when DD#2 came
along, is ensure that I spent one-on-one time with each of them very
early in the day. Even just 20 minutes during which I was fully, 100%
focused on them, made a *huge* difference in the tenor of the rest of
the day. For example, consider switching bedtime reading to morning for
awhile. Or just set aside 20-30 minutes of time in the morning where DS
gets to pick the activity and you fully participate and tune into him.

Early in the day isn't possible. He's in kindergarden, and the school bus
picks him up at 7:30 in the morning, and drops him off at 12:30 in the
afternoon. I do try and feed DD her lunch around 11:30, and she normally
has a nap around noon until about 1:30-2pm or so. That first half hour is
normally spent loading the dishwasher or something similar. I then try and
get lunch ready - either start it just before he's home or as soon as he
gets home, and I always sit down with him for lunch and have lunch with him,
while DD is napping, and then that hour or hour and a half until DD wakes is
normally the time that we get together to do whatever no matter what.
There's just no time in the morning... He's fairly tough to get up in the
morning as it is, and I find first thing in the morning I just don't have
the energy or desire to do anything more than what has to be done...I'm up
by 6am for when DH goes to work. Wake DS up, get him ready and all that,
then take him to the bus for 7:30, and then I try and catch a bit more sleep
from about 7:30 until 9, 9:30 when DD normally wakes up for the day.

If you can do this early in the day, you may find, like I did, that he
will be more content playing on his own later, less demanding of your
attentions and competing less with DD.


jen

Maybe I'll find some new and better things to do first thing in the
afternoon when he gets home. He always likes to go to the park and play, or
likes when we go across the street to the big field with the big hill. Both
those are out first thing in the afternoon after lunch as I obviously can't
leave DD at home alone sleeping to take off and do whatever.

xkatx wrote:
Maybe this might be a good thing to try... The thing about dragging him out
of any place is I would be dragging him out kicking and screaming.

BTDT. :-)

Quite
frankly, I don't care if people stand around with their mouthes hanging wide
open, staring at me. I bet that this person who seems to stand there
staring has thrown a temper tantrum themselves when they were younger or has
had a child toss a good one at some point.

If I was in the restaurant watching the scene, I'd commend you on your
good parenting.

I really can't carry him much
anymore with being pregnant and having back/spine issues, but I'm sure I
could manage on occasion if need be Sending DH out to the car, I know,
is a bad idea, simply because DH was raised on threats and does the same,
and I know with DH and DS out in the car, DD and I would be waiting until
Christmas for them to come back in! lol
I'm good at ignoring him when he acts up - most of the time.

I threw my back out shortly after my DD#2 was born, and it took a long
time to heal. We had a rough period where DD#1 was acting out (she was
only about 2 when DD#2 was born, so it wasn't just sibling rivalry but
also "the terrible twos."). Still, I managed somehow to carry them
*both* around if I had to... baby in one arm and screaming kicking
toddler on the other. Sigh...

But I acknowledge a flailing 5 year old boy might be a bit tougher to
drag about out...


No other kids in the restauruant walked out with a balloon... Never before
in that restaurant has he walked out with a balloon - good behavior or not.
I didn't know if the balloons were for sale, for free or for decorations,
and yes, because of his behavior, I wasn't about to ask the waitress about
the balloons.

Oh, I thought it might be one of those restaurants where they give kids
balloons on the way out, like Applebee's.

To be honest, though, I was quite tempted - for just a
second - to request a balloon for DD, who was a very good little girl during
supper, but I didn't. I wasn't in the mood to act like a jerk to a 5 year
old, and I saw no point. I should, however, be able to say no about
something, and that should be expected. Now, had I said no and he asked for
a reason, I do think he's entitled to a reason behind an answer, but he did
not ask why he could not have a balloon, and I didn't offer him a reason
either.

So he was basically just having a meltdown and fixating on the balloon.
Sometimes, I have been successful simply empathizing with the kids,
"Yeah, I know, you're tired and that was a long meal and yes that
balloon is pretty. I can understand wanting one, but they're
decorations and not for free."

Luckily, the restaurant is about 3 minutes down the road. He knows very
well to, no matter what, keep that seatbelt on, and keep it on properly.
Him taking off his seatbelt has not ever once been an issue since that car
accident where I had stressed how important it is to always wear your
seatbelt in any car, all the time.
We has a couple problems with him taking
off his seatbelt when we got somewhere, or, rather, when he felt we got
there, but I had made it clear that as long as the car was turned on OR we
were on the road (pulled over on the side of the road, parked on the road,
whatever) that seatbelt is to stay on and in those cases, I will take his
seatbelt off for him. Otherwise, parking lots, driveways, he is allowed to
unbuckle when the car has been turned OFF.
I cannot drive with major child distractions. I always have to pull over if
the baby starts something and is crying, and I just cannot drive with
someone yelling and shouting. A car is just too small of a place to ignore
screaming or crying. I just can't handle that, and that's been since when
about DD was born and her constant crying had made me want to swerve the car
into oncoming traffic or off the road or something, thinking doing that
would end the crying and screaming right away. PND support groups helped me
out tons with that one, though And now the only way I can do it is if
there's not unnecessary screaming, shouting, bickering, arguing, crying.

I agree - me too!

I've gone so far as to start the car. That does send him running to the
car. Never driven off, never even put the car in gear. I had just let him
stand there yelling whatever he was yelling and I put DD in the car. By the
time I was done, he was sitting in his seat.

I've gone so far as to go into the house, leaving the kid in the car or
on the lawn. But then I peek my head out the curtain to keep an eye on
them. It's more difficult to do the walk away thing in a parking lot
though. Which is why time-outs in the car work better (either with mom
sitting in the front while kid is strapped in carseat, or mom outside
the car) - but you do have to drag the kid across the lot to the car.

Oh, I know it wasn't the best approach and way to handle it. At this point,
he had not behaved at all during supper, dropped a knife not once, but three
times, had to be told to sit down too many times to count, mouthed me off
about 3 times, the list goes on

We do our best as parents but we're only human.

I have tried that once. I told him he is to stay with his seatbelt on, I
got out of the car, closed the door, leaned up against my door and lit a
smoke and just stood there listening to him scream, and he had been sitting
there kicking my car seats. I then opened the door and told him that
grandpa would NOT like to hear what he was doing to our car (and this is
true, as grandpa would NOT be happy with him if he heard about kicking the
seats) and DS knew that. He had stopped kicking the seats, I had finished
my smoke, he was quiet. I sat back down in the car just to get right up and
out again and light another smoke to fill the time, and stood outside the
car while he then hit the door and window. I opened the door and asked him
if he would like the glass to break and cut him because if he kept hitting
the door/window, the window could break and that him cleaning up glass would
not be fun.

Did he eventually settle down?

My DD#1 could go on and on with her tantrums. Sometimes, if it was just
escalating with no end in sight, I would sit her on my lap, arms around
her, with her facing forward. I wouldn't talk to her but I'd breathe
deeply and rhthymically and she'd start modulating her own breathing to
mine, eventually relaxing into my body and calming down. Some kids do
need a little more assistance learning to calm themselves down.

I just don't see the point. I have yet to see that spanking and shouting
like a fool actually work, but if I saw it did work, I'd definitely give it
a go. Yet to see how spanking and yelling helps any situation, as I find it
actually makes a situation more stressful and harder to deal with.

I think it just increases the chances your kid will hit you back. Or
hit his sister because she's smaller.

I find it kind of funny... I reply with an overly nice reply of, "That's
fine. I still love you!" every single time. He then yells at me. This has
been more and more lately, but when he does get upset, he has done it before
in the past. I know I said it, and I've heard other kids say it, so I know
it's a common thing for kids to say It doesn't bother me one bit because
it's always when he's downright ****ed off. Yes, I find it funny! No, I
can't control my smiling... It's enough to control bursting out laughing out
loud!

I know what you mean - BTDT. But he may find it really frustrating to
be struggling to express his negative emotions, not have the right
words, and then be met with laughter and teasing. Try empathizing:
"Yes, honey, I know sometimes you're mad and angry with me. I can sense
you are frustrated." (note how you just gave him three new words to
describe his feelings: anger, mad, frustrated). Then add, "In fact,
sometimes your mom gets awfully angry and frustrated with you, too. But
even so, I still always love you."


Actually, I have yet to see that one bit. Everywhere he goes, everyone he
sees, no matter what, he always brags about his baby sister and tells
everyone about her. He has never once said anything bad about her, other
than when she crys, she gives him a headache, yet that's not really much of
a complaint about her, really. The only other thing is that he doesn't like
it when she gets into his drawings and eats/rips his papers up. I just tell
him she's a baby and doesn't know any better and he needs to put his papers
away where she can't get them, and I tell him I'm sure he can draw that
picture again, and maybe even make it better. That seems to be enough to
make him happy and not worry about it. He has never really shown anything
else that would cause concern or make me think he might have some
resentment. He's always happy to sit with her, play with her, even help
change diapers - but no, he won't touch a poopy diaper

Well, maybe he is fine with his sister, but angry at you because you
have less time for him these days.

Or, it could be something else entirely, perhaps something going on at
school. Regardless, I think he's got a lot of emotions - anger,
frustration - that he's not doing very well to express.

Yes, I've noticed it's always hate or love. Nothing really in between. The
love comes whenever, the hate comes when he's angry. I sometimes get that
hate can sometimes mean I'm mad at you, not really I don't like you. He
doesn't like tomatos and mushrooms, but maybe he sees that as different, and
I hate you and I don't like what you did/said/whatever can mean the same
things to him.

Early in the day isn't possible. He's in kindergarden, and the school bus
picks him up at 7:30 in the morning, and drops him off at 12:30 in the
afternoon. I do try and feed DD her lunch around 11:30, and she normally
has a nap around noon until about 1:30-2pm or so. That first half hour is
normally spent loading the dishwasher or something similar. I then try and
get lunch ready - either start it just before he's home or as soon as he
gets home, and I always sit down with him for lunch and have lunch with him,
while DD is napping, and then that hour or hour and a half until DD wakes is
normally the time that we get together to do whatever no matter what.
There's just no time in the morning... He's fairly tough to get up in the
morning as it is, and I find first thing in the morning I just don't have
the energy or desire to do anything more than what has to be done...I'm up
by 6am for when DH goes to work. Wake DS up, get him ready and all that,
then take him to the bus for 7:30, and then I try and catch a bit more sleep
from about 7:30 until 9, 9:30 when DD normally wakes up for the day.

Okay, maybe then try to spend the time before you go out to a
restaurant?

jen

"toto" wrote in message
...
Prepare him ahead of time when you are going out by asking him
to tell you what the rules are if he knows them or restating them
clearly for him before you go.

I agree with this one completely. I have one child who is more
difficult to manage than the other. She seems to go in cycles, and so
when she's in the most active "acting up" phase of her cycle, life can
be very stressful. I have discovered that if I sit her down and talk
to her beforehand, she's much less likely to get out of control.
"Honey, this party is at Daddy's boss's house. It is *very* important
to us that you not lose control tonight. If you start getting upset,
take some breaths. If someone makes you mad, keep it inside and we'll
let it out when we get home. If you are getting to the point where
you really can't handle it, come to me and I'll find you a place where
you can be alone for a little while." The thing is that if she *does*
get upset, it's too late then to talk to her. She's unable at that
point to see reason or show empathy. It's almost impossible to even
threaten her into compliance. But if you warn her ahead of time that
she's heading into a situation that is likely to be stressful for her,
then she's prepared, and it's less likely that she'll lose control in
the first place.

Actually, I wrote that paragraph in the present tense, but as she gets
older, she has become a bit better about being able to rein it in even
after she's started heading off into the deep end. Not perfect, but
better.

Bizby