Deadbeats

I thought you said he was paying and that if a dad is paying "something,"
he
doesn't meet your definition of "deadbeat."
====
In case you didn't know, it's hard being a single
parent.
====
Oh puleeze! I was a single parent and full time student--graduated with
honors
--double major of history and pre-law--Easy? Hardly! And, I worked
painting
houses in my "free" time. I collected no child support and I can assure
you that
I didn't spend my time obsessing on what my ex "owed" our kids. Spare me
the
whining about how "hard" it is being a single parent! I've had a hell of
a
lot
bigger challenges than that to face. Life is hard--You pull yourself up
by
your
bootstraps and do what you have to do in the best interest of the kids.
You
brought this entire matter on yourself and your daughter. Yeah, I've read
what
you've posted and it's all been how much of a victim you are of this man
and I'm
------------------

Gini I consider my child's dad a dead beat because someone who is $12,000
in child support is not making payments. I have to file cases against him
to make him pay. I shouldn't have to do that. He should be the
responsible parent and take care his kid on his own. He just started
making those payments because of the civil I filed against him.

Pammie1

You know if I was a mean person I
could modify and raise his amount, but I am being nice. I didn't set
the
current amount the court did. He should have had his butt in court to
defend himself. That was his choice not to show. He never even
responded
to paternity papers. The court decided that the kid was his because he
didn't respond. Well now that he is over $12,000 behind on my case and
$11,000 behind on his other case he needs to get a second job.

Now that horrifies me. Was he notified personally by the court? Did he
know about the court date? Here where I live there was a terrible
problem
for a long time with men being "notified" by having their names published
in
the personals section of the local paper. If they didn't show up, they
were
named as father and could not dispute it. There are men paying child
support who never even met the mother of the child--but they were
"notified"
in the paper because their name was the same--and they never even knew
about
it until their wages started being garnished! Can you imagine the
awfulness
of that!!

-----------------

That is terrible to have cs garnished from you and you don't even know the
person. I don't like how they have that set up where you live. Well
where I live they sent him a letter in the mail to appear in court for cs
hearing. He got the letter. As a matter of fact he mentioned to me that
my support payments wouldn't be as high if he would have showed up to
court. So he knew about everything, he just didn't show.

Pammie1

I do have a saving for my child, but the $100 a month is just going
towards the household. When he starts paying the full amount then I
will
start back putting into her savings. You know if I was a mean person I
could modify and raise his amount, but I am being nice. I didn't set
the
current amount the court did. He should have had his butt in court to
defend himself. That was his choice not to show. He never even
responded
to paternity papers. The court decided that the kid was his because he
didn't respond. Well now that he is over $12,000 behind on my case and
$11,000 behind on his other case he needs to get a second job.
=====
So you aren't even sure this is his kid?
=====

------------

Gini I am very sure this kid is his. He was the only man I slept with in
this state.

Pammie1

Okay AZ since you are not getting it. Let's just put it in terms you
may
understand.
====
Gosh--Why are you so insistent that if anyone disagrees with you, it's
because
they don't understand? Ya know, I haven't seen a whole lot of deep
thinking come
out of you.
OK, let's try this--(to make things a little easier for *you*):

WE GET IT! WE DON"T AGREE WITH YOU!

How's that?
-------------------
Oh gad!! Gini I now have cherry kool aid all over my monitor!!! You
crack
me up!!!

~AZ~
--------------

I don't give a rats behind if you don't agree with me. I have my own
opinions and it's nothing you can do to change that. It doesn't take a
rocket scientist to figure out that cs is in effect and these dead beats
are going down if they don't take care of their kid.

Pammie1

"Phil #3" wrote in message link.net...
"witchwirsen" wrote in message
om...
"Phil #3" wrote in message
link.net...
"witchwirsen" wrote in message
om...
"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
"witchwirsen" wrote in message
om...
Vasectomy also makes sex painful for many men for 5 or 10 years.
See
"PVP" on your cited web site. Just the probability of turning sex
into
pain would be enough to discourage most men -- if the medical
industry
were honest enough to tell men about it.

Tubal's don't make sex painful for women.

No, the above is true, however, after tubal ligation most women
exprience exccessive bleeding with clotting until monopause,
severe
cramping during menstruation, hormonal changes that effect them
physically and mentally, and longer menses.
-------------
Saying "most" women experience these problems is not true. Most
women,
once
they heal, are fine. The only reason some may experience cramping,
heavier
periods and hormonal changes is if they were previously on birth
control
pills and stopped taking them. Once their body gets used to not
having
the
extra hormones things usually even out. And this stuff doesn't
"last
until
menopause" just because of getting a tubal. Menstruation and all
that
goes
with it generally lasts until menopause.
-----------------
I say 'most' trying to be objective because EVERY women I know who
have had tubals suffer from at least some of the symptoms above. (I
could have said all as that is my eperience)

You do NOT know most women, you don't even know 1% of them. If you base
all
your opinions on nothing more than personal knowledge or experience of
those
you know, you will formulate many completely false ideas, as evidenced
by
some of your postings here.
For instance, someone living in a retirement community could say that
most p
eople wear false teeth based on their personal experience and those they
know.

I have many myself, and
have not taken a birth control pill since '92. When, pray tell, will
my hormones 'even out'?

Women who receive a tubal ligation are at higher risk of tubal
pregnancy, a life threatening condition.
--------------
Where did you get that information from? Tubal pregnancies are quite
common, however, the danger doesn't come in until the fetus has grown
to a size that would cause srious problems, and tubal pregnancies
often end in miscarriage before it gets to that stage.
A "higher risk" is very, very small since the chances of a tubal
pregnancy
are next to nothing anyway.
-------------

One surgery is no better than the other. For either party.
---------------
A tubal requires general anesthesia and all the possible problems
that
go
with it.
---------------
Not only that, but a tubal requires incisions through fat, skin,
muscle, and close possible contact with the bladder, intestines, bowl,
etc...potential problems.
Discomfort for one partner will cause discomfort for the other in
some
way anyhow.
-------------
A man get a vasectomy, is uncomfortable having sex for 5 to 10 years
(as stated) and this will have an effect on his partner. A woman has
a tubal and exhibits the symptoms I stated, and it will have an effect
on her partner.

On what do you base this? Neither I nor anyone I know experienced pain
before, during or after sex from a vasectomy. I've never read of this
being
common, in fact, I've never heard of it before. I think you are wrong in
this statement.
[snip the rest]
Phil #3

Ask Bob where that came from, he is the one who posted it (Boby)I was
just replying as if he had some idea whether or not that is true, does
not good to tell him it isn't...He'll just call you a whore or some
such...whoooops, my bad, maybe he will call you a prick instead.

Sorry, then. I missed it if Bob posted it. Regardless who posted it, I think
it wrong information but like any intrusion into any part of the body,
occasionally there will be some problems. Personally, between the two, I
could better endure a chronic physical pain resulting from a medical
procedure far better than the never-ending emotional pain of having my child
legally ripped from my care.
If I knew then what I know now, I would never had fathered a child
intentionally. Not to be misconstrued as not loving my children, I think
they are priceless but I wouldn't do it again.
Phil #3

Phil,

I undertand totally.
I also feel for you.

In article outparenting.com,
Pammie1 says...
...................................

Gini I consider my child's dad a dead beat because someone who is $12,000
in child support is not making payments.
=====
On the contrary, Pammie. My husband was hit with 18 grand in arrears in one
court hearing. He was paying but was paying it directly to his ex in compliance
with the divorce decree. The ex claimed she "never got that" even though the
judge had the MO receipts in his hand. He decided to call it a "gift" unless my
husband could specify what exactly the money was for--Child support wasn't
specific enough--it had to be clothing, school supplies, etc. In addition, the
judge doubled the CS to 1200. a month which was retro active to the date of
filing--about a year in this interstate case. Now, if anyone saw that my husband
was 18,000. behind in child support without knowing the circumstances, they'd
think he was a real slimeball. In reality, he was taken to the cleaners for
doing what he was ordered to do in his divorce decree. My husband's case is not
isolated. This happens to dads all the time.
=====
I have to file cases against him
to make him pay. I shouldn't have to do that. He should be the
responsible parent and take care his kid on his own.
======
I have always told my kids that there is a big difference between 'should' and
'is.'
Sometimes chasing what "should" be costs a great deal more than learning to live
with what is.
======
======

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Phil #3" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
link.net...

"Phil #3" wrote in message
link.net...

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message


lkaboutparenting.com...
Okay Phil #3 I can see why you would be upset. That is totally
wrong
how
she is using her Child Support money. She is a leech. I think
she
can
live off $400 a month or less. It's not like she is has
responsibilities.
She is living large at your expensive. That's not good. Have
you
tried
to modify? I am just curious if you can have your support
lowered.

Pammie1

When it mattered most, I could not afford to even take off of work
long
enough for a hearing, much less hire an attorney or even research
it
myself.
Now I'm down to less than a year so it would likely cost me as
much
or
more
than I could save, not to mention I am temporarily stationed 1000
miles
from
the state of origin.
Besides, I've learned to live without it, soon we'll see if SHE
can

Phil #3
------------
I don't think she would be able to survive without that extra
income
coming in. That would be interesting to see. Less than a year to
go...wow your time will be up before you know it. Are you
planning
a
big
get away when that time comes?

Pammie1


I don't know what I'll do. It will be like getting a big raise,
though.
Phil #3

I sent my ex an Excel spreadsheet detailing all of the payments for
CS,
alimony, attorney fees, and other expenses I was required to pay
broken
down
by year.

I thought she would thank me for being so generous and taking care of
my
responsibilities. And tell me she couldn't have been the CP without
my
financial contributions and relate how much she appreciated my
willingness
to be so liberal in helping out with extra visitations. /s/

As usual her response was she never got that much money. But she got
the
point - it was a major amount she no longer would get.


Funny you should mention that. I have an Excel spreadsheet showing the
C$
payments, when due, when paid, of course the amount and total paid. Mine
counts down the number of payments left, how many months (or fractions
thereof) remaining. I never thought of sending it to her but I think I
will

Thanks for the idea.
I also have a countdown clock showing the exact years, months, weeks,
days,
hours, minutes and seconds left before Independence Day
When I installed it, I had several years left. Slowly, I have watched
the
years tick by; it seemed like it would be forever when I started
counting
in
1995.

Just an FYI - Don't count portions of months. The last CS payment accrues
on the first day of the month and is due by the end of the last day of the
month. Even if your child is no longer eligible for CS on the 2nd day of
the final month in the order you will still owe for the full month. Pay
for
the last month in full and smile knowing it is the last payment. And be
sure to check what is required in the local court's rules to fully satisfy
the CS judgment and close the money judgment file forever.


Like I stated, it does not go through the gummit (thank goodness) and the
specifics are that my child must be both over 18 and graduated from high
school in order to end the siege. His 19th birthday will precede his
graduation by about one week, both of which are after the date the C$ is due
for that month. That means I will have paid for the month (May) and in June,
he will be both over 18 and graduated, ergo, no C$ due.
I have been trying to find case law covering having a judge sign off on
having C$ ended but have been unable to find anything. Other than just the
details of the court order that demands support also contains the elements
to end it, so I suppose I will contact an attorney about getting a signed
court order stop C$ since I haven't found anything.
Phil #3

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
I thought you said he was paying and that if a dad is paying "something,"
he
doesn't meet your definition of "deadbeat."
====
In case you didn't know, it's hard being a single
parent.
====
Oh puleeze! I was a single parent and full time student--graduated with
honors
--double major of history and pre-law--Easy? Hardly! And, I worked
painting
houses in my "free" time. I collected no child support and I can assure
you that
I didn't spend my time obsessing on what my ex "owed" our kids. Spare me
the
whining about how "hard" it is being a single parent! I've had a hell of
a
lot
bigger challenges than that to face. Life is hard--You pull yourself up
by
your
bootstraps and do what you have to do in the best interest of the kids.
You
brought this entire matter on yourself and your daughter. Yeah, I've read
what
you've posted and it's all been how much of a victim you are of this man
and I'm
------------------

Gini I consider my child's dad a dead beat because someone who is $12,000
in child support is not making payments.

That just isn't true, Pammie! My husband found out that he was the father
of an almost 13 year old girl by a one night stand a couple of years ago.
He never knew she existed. We were married and had the 2 children we knew
we could afford, and he was hit with 2 years of instant arrearages.
Fortunately, they couldn't go all the way back to the birth of the
child--they could only go back 2 years. But his instant arrears have
destroyed our credit. We could not refinance our home because of the lien
they have on it. When the mortgage agent called to find out if they would
subordinate their claim so we could refinance, the CS idiot said "not this
scumbag" as if he were an outrageous deadbeat who never paid--and he has
never missed a payment since the order was in place! You can't just look at
a high number and say "This guy must be a deadbeat." People are screwed by
the system all the time, and end up with outrageous numbers attached to
their names!


I have to file cases against him
to make him pay. I shouldn't have to do that. He should be the
responsible parent and take care his kid on his own. He just started
making those payments because of the civil I filed against him.

Pammie1

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
As if you want to be paid to parent your own children. I've heard that
said
here many times.
Didn't you expect you'd be putting in the work whether you stayed
together
or not? I know, I know, you didn't expect to do both jobs but what if
you'd
stayed together and he worked hard, became a wonderful dad and got
injured
on the job to the point he became paralyzed or comatose? What then?

Phil #3
------------

I am saying that taking care of a kid on your own will have you tired like
you are working 2 jobs. It takes a lot of energy to clean, play, and
teach little kids.

I kind of thought so.... of course, only having had 4, I couldn't know ;-)


Being that this is my first and only kid, I had no idea parenting took so
much work. It's easy to look at someone else with a kid. It doesn't seem
that hard. The reality is that it's very hard work.

I believe I would describe it as "joy" more than "work" but parenting if
filled with happy and unhappy times, difficulty, worry and extreme pride in
one's own child as that child masters the mileposts of life. The downside is
that it is a 24 hour job until the teen years, then it doubles.

I didn't expect to
be doing this all alone.

I didn't expect to be forced out and not allowed to do it at all.

.It's a big difference knowing that you were
dumped with a kid and the father doesn't want to have anything to do with
the kid as oppose to him getting hurt on the job.

Yes, if you had a paralyzed husband AND a child, then you'd *really* have a
lot to complain about.
You cannot make him care, you can't even make him *act* like he cares.

I don't know it's like
I have to put a lot of time and energy into staying on top of the child
support case. The cs office will not stay on top of my case so I have to
make calls, write letters, attend court.

It sounds a bit like it is not worth the effort. If you don't need the
money, I would suggest just letting the whole thing go and making a life for
you and your child without so much as a thought about him, where he is and
what he's doing.
I suspect you and your child would both be much happier, especially since
you could devote the time you're spending on trying to insure he is crippled
by CSE, to you and your child.

I am sure if the dad was injured
there would be some type of disability check coming in to help support the
household.

One that is subject to accountability. It's an option in the situation you
are in now, as well.


Now I have been told that taking care of a healthy man is hard work. I
have heard women say they have to clean behind men, cook for them (you
can't just make hot dogs like you can for kids). Men want a full course
meal. ha ha

I'd rather avoid getting into male/female bashing.
Phil #3


Pammie1

"Phil #3" wrote in message
link.net...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Phil #3" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
link.net...

"Phil #3" wrote in message
link.net...

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message


lkaboutparenting.com...
Okay Phil #3 I can see why you would be upset. That is totally
wrong
how
she is using her Child Support money. She is a leech. I
think
she
can
live off $400 a month or less. It's not like she is has
responsibilities.
She is living large at your expensive. That's not good.
Have
you
tried
to modify? I am just curious if you can have your support
lowered.

Pammie1

When it mattered most, I could not afford to even take off of
work
long
enough for a hearing, much less hire an attorney or even
research
it
myself.
Now I'm down to less than a year so it would likely cost me as
much
or
more
than I could save, not to mention I am temporarily stationed
1000
miles
from
the state of origin.
Besides, I've learned to live without it, soon we'll see if SHE
can

Phil #3
------------
I don't think she would be able to survive without that extra
income
coming in. That would be interesting to see. Less than a year
to
go...wow your time will be up before you know it. Are you
planning
a
big
get away when that time comes?

Pammie1


I don't know what I'll do. It will be like getting a big raise,
though.
Phil #3

I sent my ex an Excel spreadsheet detailing all of the payments for
CS,
alimony, attorney fees, and other expenses I was required to pay
broken
down
by year.

I thought she would thank me for being so generous and taking care
of
my
responsibilities. And tell me she couldn't have been the CP without
my
financial contributions and relate how much she appreciated my
willingness
to be so liberal in helping out with extra visitations. /s/

As usual her response was she never got that much money. But she
got
the
point - it was a major amount she no longer would get.


Funny you should mention that. I have an Excel spreadsheet showing the
C$
payments, when due, when paid, of course the amount and total paid.
Mine
counts down the number of payments left, how many months (or fractions
thereof) remaining. I never thought of sending it to her but I think I
will

Thanks for the idea.
I also have a countdown clock showing the exact years, months, weeks,
days,
hours, minutes and seconds left before Independence Day
When I installed it, I had several years left. Slowly, I have watched
the
years tick by; it seemed like it would be forever when I started
counting
in
1995.

Just an FYI - Don't count portions of months. The last CS payment
accrues
on the first day of the month and is due by the end of the last day of
the
month. Even if your child is no longer eligible for CS on the 2nd day
of
the final month in the order you will still owe for the full month. Pay
for
the last month in full and smile knowing it is the last payment. And be
sure to check what is required in the local court's rules to fully
satisfy
the CS judgment and close the money judgment file forever.


Like I stated, it does not go through the gummit (thank goodness) and the
specifics are that my child must be both over 18 and graduated from high
school in order to end the siege. His 19th birthday will precede his
graduation by about one week, both of which are after the date the C$ is
due
for that month. That means I will have paid for the month (May) and in
June,
he will be both over 18 and graduated, ergo, no C$ due.
I have been trying to find case law covering having a judge sign off on
having C$ ended but have been unable to find anything. Other than just the
details of the court order that demands support also contains the elements
to end it, so I suppose I will contact an attorney about getting a signed
court order stop C$ since I haven't found anything.

I paid an attorney $50 for a 30 minute consultation on how to close out the
money judgements. He gave me a copy of the state law regarding how to
proceed. My case originated in a different county, and not surprisingly,
that county does not follow the state law. They have their own procedure.
When I ask for the procedure they told me they couldn't give me legal
advice. It was like Catch-22. My suggestion is it may not be as straight
forward to close out the money judgement as you might assume.