Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

jake wrote in message . ..



RSD, CFS, MCS, etc.

And, NONE of those have clearly objective tests.

sure...
I would say its status is exactly that of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

Fine.

How about RSD, migraine, and schizophrenia? You keep dodging those questions.

--
CBI, MD

"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:25:15 +0000, jake wrote:

[snip]

Some people seem to want one set of rules for them, and another for
others...

there are no medical tests for ADHD. It is not a medical condition.

Now *this* is funny.

There isn't a darn thing funny about the functional response children make
to sharing territory with odious persons creating an environment so hostile
to such children that the childrens adapt in a manner includes permanent
alterations to their brain chemistry, originally named Minimal Brain
Dysfunction and only recently renamed ADHD to appease parents of unfortunate
children.

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:25:53 -0600, "SumBuny"
wrote:

hmmm...
so he is saying kids(Dxed with ADHD)on speed drive more safely?

Why do you insist on using such an inflammatory word? Is it intentional, or
ignorant? *That* is the problem that those of us who choose to use
medication run into, the attitude that ADHD meds=speed=illicit drug abuse...

WRONG

But some do not *want* to hear that or understand that...


thats food for thought I must admit..
lots of food for thought there in fact..thank you for posting it..

If you are *truly* thinking about it, that treated ADHD is better/safer that
untreated...though your inflammatory and prejudicial comment above leaves me
believing that you are only being condescending here.


Do note this...like diabetes, ADHD does not always need medication to be
treated....some diabetics do fine with diet and excercise (behavior
modifications), some need the addition of medication to the behavior
modifications. I.e., insulin alone will not treat the diabetes, but
changes
in behavior (diet, exercise) are also needed. The same goes for ADHD.
Some
do fine with behavior modification and coping mechanisms (such as those
found http://www.add.org/content/school/list.htm ) But there are those
who
need medication *in addition to* those behavior changes...medication
alone
will not treat ADHD any more than it will treat diabetes, when it is
used.

*That* is another similarity between the two...meds alone will not work,
and
meds are not necessary in all cases. Unfortunately, there are those who
are
vehemently anti-meds for ADHD, that they overlook this last statement
from
ADHDers like me--that meds alone are not the answer, and that meds are
not
always necessary...


well that sounds like refreshingly fair comment..



I try to be...because I know that extremism--on any side--leads to people
not listening, but only yelling...and it *is* what I believe, not just
because I think someone else wants to hear it...
Buny

"SumBuny" wrote
there are no medical tests for ADHD. It is not a medical condition.
What are the "medical tests" for near-sightedness? Far-sightedness?
Pain?
... students who do not have "medical conditions" because the tests for
them are
not truly objective...and whil you are at it, insist that everyone remove
their prescription lenses, because that too is subjective, not objectively
tested...

Tests for nearsightedness and for eyeglass prescriptions *are* objective.
Perhaps you think that eyecharts are not objective, but most optometrists
do all their diagnosis and testing with objective tests that look directly
at the lens in the eye. The eyechart is just a way of double-checking
the results.

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:32:52 -0600, "SumBuny"
wrote:


"jake" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:02:00 -0600, "SumBuny"
wrote:


"jake" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:24:00 GMT, "Marciosos8 Probertiosos8"
wrote:
"jake" wrote in message
.. .
I dont know about my double standards but your obsessions are
sure
showing..
As I said ..anything to avoid facing the fact that ADHD is
nothing
remotely like diabetes..

However, it is like chronic pain,

Have you ever had chronic pain?
you might change your mind rapidly.... there
is no question of "forgetting" to take painkillers..



Hmmm...sounds like an "addiction" to me....if a person never forgets
to
take
their drug, they must be addicted...right?

If you are in chronic pain you do not forget to take painkillers.
It is no secret that opiates and painkillers like Oxycontin are highly
addictive.

True...but what about those who are using NSAIDs for chronic conditions?

well..I am not too sure they are being very smart..
there are worse things than being addicted
In terms of this discussion I guess you would have to say they are
dependent but not addicted..

What is the difference, in your opinion?






And a person who does forget
must not be addicted, right?

I suspect that they remember fast enough when the withdrawal symptoms
kick in..

Did ya know that you can get rebound headaches from overuse of NSAIDs?

http://www.healthyroads.com/MyLibrar...eboundHeadache.
asp

overuse is sure not a good idea..
this should be publicized more often IMHO..

Agreed...overuse/abuse of *any* medication is not good--including ADHD
meds...however, all too many extremists do not seem to "hear" that...they
believe that anyone using ADHD meds is abusing them...









Considering that both chronic pain and ADHD are diagnosed
subjectively...and
the former patients never forget their meds while the latter often
do...then
why is the ADHDer called addicted to drugs for a "made up condition"
and
the
pain sufferer is not?

the addictive qualities are a function of the drug..
Both opiates and amphetamines are highly addictive.

Explain the rebound headaches for overuse/abuse of NSAIDs (not opiates)

lol...a bit of a burden when the experts dont know..
but
"a history of taking prescription or nonprescription pain relievers
daily or almost every day, contrary to directions on the package
label"

sounds fair enough to me..

it brings to mind a similar discussion we had on OTC
inhalers where you were perfectly correct..

nodding Key words are "contrary to directions"...when a doctor directs
you to take medication daily or over an extended period of time, that is not
considered overuse, right? As long as you are working with your doctor,
following his/her directions as far as dose and frequency, it is not abuse
or overuse, right?

Same for all medications...including those for mental health issues...






Just trying to understand the POV of those who make this
"distinction"...

yes you can be quite rational..but as soon as the spectre of
scientology is summoned up you became a eccentric and hysterical as
the rest..
a curious phenomenum


I have never been impressed with the extremism of that group...anyone who
decides what is right for *everyone else* no matter what, strikes me as
eccentric and hysterical.

and how about the extremism of those who troll around as self-styled
"anti-scientologists" routinely pack attacking poor devils who have
never even heard of the damn group?
raving about clams and god knows what other madness..????

Just because I do not participate in those does not mean I agree/support
them...otherwise, I could be accused of doing the same on many anti-ADHD med
threads as well, no? g





I have never insisted that all people take
medication, that it is right for everyone. I believe that this is
something
to be decided by the patient and the doctor...however, when someone who
has
never met me insists that I should not be allowed to do this, that they
can
"practice medicine" for my docotr, *that* is where I get defensive.

Wouldn't you get upset if a stranger insists that you and your doctor not
be
the ones to decide your health care?


Indeed..

in other forums I am considered a pain for constantly
criticizing mentally ill usenet doKtors.. who diagnose and prescribe
for unmet strangers from behind their keyboards..

nodding The frightening thing that I have seen is that it is not only
mental health issues, but just about any medical condition can be abused
online...there is definately something to be said about personal interaction
with one's doc....many conditions mimic others...my grandfather had been
diagnosed as arthritic for years...only to be found with pancreatic cancer
by a specialist who happened to be in the office during one of his
follow-ups...another friend was misdiagnosed with Chron's (sp?) disease--he
actually had leukemia...I do agree that ADHD is often misdiagnosed--but
misdiagnosis goes *both ways*. I.e., some who are diagnosed as ADHD do not
have it, but that also means that some people who are not diagnosed ADHD
*do* have it.



odd that they almost invariably diagnose people as having the same
problem as them and encourage others to take the same drugs as they do


I do admit that I see much through the eyes of "ADHD, aspergers/autism,
gifted, sensory integrations disorder". Why? Because that is what my family
is dealing with, and "If the only tool one has is a hammer, everything
begins to look like a nail." I may see ADHD or autism, or SID where it
might not be, but I do not insist that medication is what everyone should
have. If I am asked what *I* (or my family) is doing/using, I do not lie.
But I *do* insist that they go to their doctor to get it checked/ruled out.
If it wasn't for some folks doing that, my son's autism would probably have
gone undiagnosed for a few more years (he was not diagnosed aspergers until
he was 8)...someone suggested I research that, and when I saw the
description, I went to his doc and asked that he be screened for it.

The same with ADHD...

YMMV, and we are all human and make mistakes...docs included g
Buny

"L" wrote in message
s.com...

There isn't a darn thing funny about the functional response children make
to sharing territory with odious persons creating an environment so
hostile
to such children that the childrens adapt in a manner includes permanent
alterations to their brain chemistry, originally named Minimal Brain
Dysfunction and only recently renamed ADHD to appease parents of
unfortunate
children.


I do not see my children nor I as "unfortunate." There are many good things
about ADHD...
http://www.netacc.net/~gradda/sp0150or.html

50 (or so) Great Things About ADD
by Bob Seay

Entertain your friends with witty one-liners and sharp come backs.
· Insomnia makes for more time to stay up and surf the net!
· The drive of Hyper-focus
· Two words: Chat Addiction
· Hyperactivity+Creativity+ a Compulsive Libido= One Popular Guy on Dates
· Resilience
· Can meet someone, fall deeply in love, marry, fight, hate and divorce all
in about 35 minutes or less
· Sparkling personality
· Drop names like Edison, Einstein, Walt Disney and Beethoven in
conversations
· Can fixate on one object while the rest of the world goes right down the
toilet
· Can see all of your wordly possessions at one time.. because they are all
over the floor
· Tends to be very generous with money, time and resources.
· flexible
· ENTHUSIASTIC
· innovative
· A strong sense of what is FAIR
· Willing to take a Risk
· Alert
· Eager
· creative
· provides original ideas · or isn't afraid to steal them.
· Make far reaching analogies that no one else understands. Write them off
as "Deep Thoughts"
· Theoretical
· Abstract Thinkers
· Spontaneous
· Always Hopeful
· Keeps business meetings lively
· The Mind of a Pentium - with only 2Mgs of RAM
· Aesthetically oriented
· Pleasantly and constantly surprised by finding clothing you had forgotten
about.
· Able to tie seemingly unrelated ideas together
· Funny
· Able to see The Big Picture while others stumble around in the dark.
· Independent
· Demands to know WHY?
· Last of the ROMANTICS
· Has a wide variety of interests · Good conversationalist
· Qualify for bulk rate mail on tax returns because you have at least 24
W-2's attached.
· At IQs of 160 and above, virtually all people have ADD symptoms
· An innately better understanding of intuitive technologies such as
computers
· In class popularity contests, always voted "Most Entertaining"
· "Most Energetic" and "Most likely to Self Immolate"
· Great Improvisors
· Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound (did you actually read
that?)
· Honestly believes that anything is possible
· Great at Extemporaneous Speaking
· Quickly assimilates new information
· Usually a little smarter than the average bear
· Willing to "step out in faith"
· Rarely satisfied with the status quo
· Empathetic · Can easily replace missing childhood photos with panels from
"Calvin & Hobbes"
· Pleasantly and constantly surprised by finding money you had forgotten
about.
· Blows up, but then usually recovers quickly
· An unstoppable dynamo of human energy
· Doesn't know when to quit
· Intuitive · Compassionate
· Persistant · Spunky
· Hidden TALENT
· Closely attuned to the moods of those around them
· Pleasantly and constantly surprised by finding spouses you had forgotten
about.
· ADD is especially common among artists, musicians, and other creative
people
· Can always be depended upon to provide a different perspective
· Visionary
· An Individualist
· Many successful entrepreneurs exhibit ADD behaviors
· A greater tolerance for Chaos
· Provides job security for writers of Spell Check programs
· Will fight for what they believe in
· Excellent motivators of others
· Highly organized, punctual and generally responsible (OK, so I lied)
· got your attention?








Not exactly "unfortunate"
Buny

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:24:00 GMT, "Marciosos8 Probertiosos8"
wrote:


"jake" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:21:56 GMT, "Marciosos7 Probertiosos8"
wrote:


"jake" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:09:27 GMT, "Marciosos7 Probertiosos8"
wrote:


"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
et...
"Marciosos7 Probertiosos8" wrote
Dr. Mary Ann Block
BTW, in some recent readsing, I came accross this little
gem....
http://www.fumento.com/adhdblock.html
Imagine if anyone who is pro med used an expert that was this
tainted.....

They do. (Do you mean Block or Fumento?)

Block, of course, as that was the context which you snipped and did
not
mention.

I usually enjoy Fumento's column, but he is a little off-base
here.

Disagree. I would say "Grand slam." (pun intended)

He tries
to smear Block with a scientology charge, when the connection is
very
tenuous at best.

Bull****. I looked at all of it, ans she is a fellow traveller, and
in
lock
step.

"fellow traveller"???
thats a useful expresion..

IOW you are totally aware that the lady is NOT in fact a
scientologist
and its just another pathetic attempt to smear using "guilt by
association"

From all my reading, she is freely travelling with them. For whatever
purpose, she has made a considered to affiliate with this Kriminal
Kult.

now here come the capital letters and conspiracy theories..

I dont know about my double standards but your obsessions are sure
showing..
As I said ..anything to avoid facing the fact that ADHD is nothing
remotely like diabetes..

However, it is like chronic pain,

Have you ever had chronic pain?

On three occasions in my life I had sufficient pain to want prescription
medication, and was given it by doctors. One was addictive, but, I did not
get addicted, as I did not abuse it.

you might change your mind rapidly.... there
is no question of "forgetting" to take painkillers..

Irrelevant, since we are discussing the diagnosis. Pain, especially the
degree of pain, is subjective, and the doctor occasionally renders treatment
based upon a patient's description of their subjective symptomatology. Since
this is clearly analogous to the issue of diagnosing ADHD, for you to be
consistent, you would have to oppose the use of any medicition for these
patients.

Now, you may ask is this pain real? The answer is, absent some element of
secondary gain, yes. My firm often looks at claims of people who are
alleging such a disability. We look to see how their lives have been
affected.

And, this is one of the elements of the diagnostic protocol for AH/HD. the
comparisons are striking.

RSD, CFS, MCS, etc.

And, NONE of those have clearly objective tests.

sure...
I would say its status is exactly that of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

I have seen people incapacitated from CFS.

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:36:28 -0600, "SumBuny"
wrote:
"jake" wrote in message
news
there are no medical tests for ADHD. It is not a medical condition.


What are the "medical tests" for near-sightedness? Far-sightedness?
Pain?
Autism? Sensory integration disorder? If you cannot state any, does
that
mean that these are not medical conditions? That they should/can not be
treated? That they are not real?

Try to spend some time volunteering in special education classes with
students who do not have "medical conditions" because the tests for them
are
not truly objective...and whil you are at it, insist that everyone remove
their prescription lenses, because that too is subjective, not
objectively
tested...


Until then, do not tell me that my family is not dealing with disabling
conditions, such as ADHD, autism, sid, pain....


I am not aware that pointing out that diabetes is nothing like ADHD is
telling you and family anything..or that I have ever suggested such a
thing..


It was not your pointing out diabetes is "nothing like ADHD" that I was
commenting on, but the comment of "there are no medical tests for ADHD. It
is not a medical condition" that I was...and you conveniently snipped both
that and my explanatory comments...your comment was "telling my family" that
our ADHD, autism, sid, pain issues are not "medical conditions"...

Buny

"CBI" wrote in message
m...
jake wrote in message
. ..



RSD, CFS, MCS, etc.

And, NONE of those have clearly objective tests.

sure...
I would say its status is exactly that of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

Fine.

How about RSD, migraine, and schizophrenia? You keep dodging those
questions.

Although late stage RSD can have some objective findings.

"SumBuny" wrote in message
news:rnFFb.9118$Fg.2730@lakeread01...

"Marciosos7 Probertiosos8" wrote in
message
.net...

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:09:27 GMT, "Marciosos7 Probertiosos8"
wrote:

"fellow traveller"???
thats a useful expresion..

IOW you are totally aware that the lady is NOT in fact a scientologist
and its just another pathetic attempt to smear using "guilt by
association"

From all my reading, she is freely travelling with them. For whatever
purpose, she has made a considered to affiliate with this Kriminal Kult.


Not to mention that exact same "argument" is used to deny the accuracy of
medical tests that are run by labs that are "guilty by association" with
pharmaceutical companies....

Some people seem to want one set of rules for them, and another for
others...

Of course.

it is the only way that they can win.