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#31
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How to stop the night wakings?
On Mar 14, 12:41 pm, Banty wrote:
In article , cjra says... On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote: cjra wrote: On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message ... On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort and lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes. ??????? It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to do. I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will make a difference. Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable? A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing? Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very well may not work. A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress topper. Not a whole bed. Sorry I said bed but was thinking mattress. They're not cheap and we have a good one already. DH doesn't happen to like it, but it's not worth spending money on another (and then what to do with the old? We try very hard to limit our purchases not just for $$ reasons but because we aim not to be over consumers). This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast, looking for some magic fix. oooh, i'd love a magic fix! I know there is none. I've not discarded any ideas except that of buying a new mattress for DH that isn't really necessary. All are possible things we're considering, just in an order that seems most reasonable. The suggestions seem to be getting grander, while I'm still working on the initial, smaller steps. This went from having DH sleep in another room, but as the other bed hurts his back, switch beds. That's a lot of work. Not impossible, and if seems like it's our only real option, we will consider it. (the frames are totally different so just swapping out the mattreses with out the frames doesn't work, and for a variety of reasons, I won't put the mattresses on the floor in this house). So the next suggestion is what I consider to be more extreme: get a new mattress/bed whatever you want to call it. I'm trying to stick to the simpler, less drastic solutions. With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is done. Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work, and how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you seem to really be able to envision things finally working. No, I'm envisioning DD sleeping peacefully in our bed or in the crib that's in our room. I'm trying to figure out how best to get there with a drastic overhaul of our house. Hey, we can move out and find new house with multiple rooms and we can each sleep in our room and problem solved. But you know, that's a drastic measure, dontcha think? All in all, I've responded to quite a few suggestions that we're going to try out. |
#32
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How to stop the night wakings?
"Banty" wrote in message
... In article , cjra says... On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote: cjra wrote: On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message ... On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort and lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes. ??????? It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to do. I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will make a difference. Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable? A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing? Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very well may not work. A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress topper. Not a whole bed. When talking about mattresses, I refer to them as beds as well. So I understood her to mean that she couldn't afford/didn't want to spend that much money on a new bed/mattress. A new mattress can run a few thousand dollars, so it's not a minor thing. Even a mattress pad or topper can be a few hundred for a really good one. And if her dh is as picky as I am, you can't just throw a $30 pad on top of a bed that you consider to be uncomfortable -- it just doesn't do anything. This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast, looking for some magic fix. With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is done. Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work, and how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you seem to really be able to envision things finally working. Sometimes muddling through is the only thing that people seem to be able to get to work. For whatever reason. And it *is* an option. Folks here are trying to come up with *better* options for you, but it is an option. Banty I totally understand where she is coming from. She wants to start small and simple and work up to the bigger possible solutions. As she said, it's like going for brain surgery for a headache, or burning down your house to kill a rat. Yes, it might solve the problem, but so would several other less extreme measures. Obviously you want to solve the problem with the easiest/fastest solution if at all possible. I'm sure if she discovers that the easy solutions don't work, she'll keep trying other things until she gets to the more difficult ones. -- Jamie Clark |
#33
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How to stop the night wakings?
"Rosalie B." wrote in message
... cjra wrote: I have described the house set up repeatedly, perhaps you missed it. There are not very many rooms in the house. Every other area is OPEN. It's a smallish house. There's not some side area to put her, so yeah, wherever she'd be outside the bedroom would be in a common living space. Yes I answered before I read the post where you described it again, and I was not paying attention in the beginning as I did not co-sleep and did not have much trouble with night waking after about 6 months. I do live in a pre Civil War house (in the US), but it is two stories. And very well insulated for noise. Dd#2 was determined that she was going to be in the band playing with her sister, but we had just moved and the school system we moved to started instrumental music in 3rd grade, and she was in 5th grade so way behind. She wanted to get up and practice before school, but dh said absolutely not, that he wasn't going to be wakened up at O dark 30 with the screeching of a clarinet. So DD#2 went downstairs into the 'new' wing (c 1930) and shut herself in the half bath off the kitchen and she could practice there without waking her dad. And my son's rock band used to practice in the living room which is right under our bedroom - made the house vibrate a bit. It sounds like you are a whole family of problem sleepers.g. And that's the problem more than the house. It sounds to me like she has a family of light sleepers, not problem sleepers. And she clearly has a small ranch style house, where every room pretty much opens onto the public rooms -- be it living room, kitchen or dinning room. I've lived in houses and apartments like that, where life went on as usual on the other side of your door. Now I live in a large 2 story home, and there are all sorts of places I can go to be out of sight or earshot from my dh or kids, with or without shutting a door. I am a very light sleeper. I can't sleep with noise or lights. I can't sleep sitting up (in an airplane, train, or car, for example). I don't fall asleep with the TV on, either in bed, or downstairs while watching. Dh can't stay up in bed and read, or even use a laptop, as that would be too much light for me and it would keep me awake. Dh, on the other hand, can sleep almost anywhere. He is a heavy sleeper, and routinely falls asleep on the sofa in the middle of a show, or during a movie, or in bed while I have the overhead light on and am getting ready for bed, etc. It takes a bit to wake him in the middle of the night. The kids can be up and down 3-4 times, in and out of our room, talking, etc, and he hears none of it. -- Jamie Clark |
#34
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How to stop the night wakings?
On Mar 14, 1:54 pm, "Jamie Clark" wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote in message ... cjra wrote: I have described the house set up repeatedly, perhaps you missed it. There are not very many rooms in the house. Every other area is OPEN. It's a smallish house. There's not some side area to put her, so yeah, wherever she'd be outside the bedroom would be in a common living space. Yes I answered before I read the post where you described it again, and I was not paying attention in the beginning as I did not co-sleep and did not have much trouble with night waking after about 6 months. I do live in a pre Civil War house (in the US), but it is two stories. And very well insulated for noise. Dd#2 was determined that she was going to be in the band playing with her sister, but we had just moved and the school system we moved to started instrumental music in 3rd grade, and she was in 5th grade so way behind. She wanted to get up and practice before school, but dh said absolutely not, that he wasn't going to be wakened up at O dark 30 with the screeching of a clarinet. So DD#2 went downstairs into the 'new' wing (c 1930) and shut herself in the half bath off the kitchen and she could practice there without waking her dad. And my son's rock band used to practice in the living room which is right under our bedroom - made the house vibrate a bit. It sounds like you are a whole family of problem sleepers.g. And that's the problem more than the house. It sounds to me like she has a family of light sleepers, not problem sleepers. And she clearly has a small ranch style house, where every room pretty much opens onto the public rooms -- be it living room, kitchen or dinning room. I've lived in houses and apartments like that, where life went on as usual on the other side of your door. Now I live in a large 2 story home, and there are all sorts of places I can go to be out of sight or earshot from my dh or kids, with or without shutting a door. Basically, yes. Not ranch style but yes all the rooms open onto the center of the house/public rooms (and all are interconnected). I am a very light sleeper. I can't sleep with noise or lights. I can't sleep sitting up (in an airplane, train, or car, for example). I don't fall asleep with the TV on, either in bed, or downstairs while watching. Dh can't stay up in bed and read, or even use a laptop, as that would be too much light for me and it would keep me awake. Yes! Now that is true. I am definitely a light sleeper, all the same issues Jaime described. Really stinks on 20+ hour plane flights but life goes on. I had sleep issues as a kid though, according to my parents, and as a teen had bouts of insomnia frequently. Dh, on the other hand, can sleep almost anywhere. He is a heavy sleeper, and routinely falls asleep on the sofa in the middle of a show, or during a movie, or in bed while I have the overhead light on and am getting ready for bed, etc. It takes a bit to wake him in the middle of the night. The kids can be up and down 3-4 times, in and out of our room, talking, etc, and he hears none of it. My DH is now conditioned to it. DH is actually not a light sleeper at all. For more than a year he slept right through DD's night wakings even tho she was 2 inches from him (except when she really screamed, which was rare then). Since he took over night duty though, he does wake all the time. Unfortunately I do too. I think part of the reason her night wakings are getting harder to deal with is that I also have to deal with DH's lack of sleep grumpiness ;-). I can handle lack of sleep much better than he can, although even I have my limits! |
#35
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How to stop the night wakings?
"cjra" wrote in message
... On Mar 14, 1:54 pm, "Jamie Clark" wrote: "Rosalie B." wrote in message ... cjra wrote: I have described the house set up repeatedly, perhaps you missed it. There are not very many rooms in the house. Every other area is OPEN. It's a smallish house. There's not some side area to put her, so yeah, wherever she'd be outside the bedroom would be in a common living space. Yes I answered before I read the post where you described it again, and I was not paying attention in the beginning as I did not co-sleep and did not have much trouble with night waking after about 6 months. I do live in a pre Civil War house (in the US), but it is two stories. And very well insulated for noise. Dd#2 was determined that she was going to be in the band playing with her sister, but we had just moved and the school system we moved to started instrumental music in 3rd grade, and she was in 5th grade so way behind. She wanted to get up and practice before school, but dh said absolutely not, that he wasn't going to be wakened up at O dark 30 with the screeching of a clarinet. So DD#2 went downstairs into the 'new' wing (c 1930) and shut herself in the half bath off the kitchen and she could practice there without waking her dad. And my son's rock band used to practice in the living room which is right under our bedroom - made the house vibrate a bit. It sounds like you are a whole family of problem sleepers.g. And that's the problem more than the house. It sounds to me like she has a family of light sleepers, not problem sleepers. And she clearly has a small ranch style house, where every room pretty much opens onto the public rooms -- be it living room, kitchen or dinning room. I've lived in houses and apartments like that, where life went on as usual on the other side of your door. Now I live in a large 2 story home, and there are all sorts of places I can go to be out of sight or earshot from my dh or kids, with or without shutting a door. Basically, yes. Not ranch style but yes all the rooms open onto the center of the house/public rooms (and all are interconnected). I saw the photos. It looks like it has some beautiful bones! Obviously life will get easier once you get the doors back up... I am a very light sleeper. I can't sleep with noise or lights. I can't sleep sitting up (in an airplane, train, or car, for example). I don't fall asleep with the TV on, either in bed, or downstairs while watching. Dh can't stay up in bed and read, or even use a laptop, as that would be too much light for me and it would keep me awake. Yes! Now that is true. I am definitely a light sleeper, all the same issues Jaime described. Really stinks on 20+ hour plane flights but life goes on. I had sleep issues as a kid though, according to my parents, and as a teen had bouts of insomnia frequently. Ah, see, I never had "sleep issues" as a child, and don't have insomnia. Once I'm asleep, I'm good to go. I wake multiple times a night for various reasons -- have to pee, kid has nightmare, dh is snoring (or breathing towards me), but I can roll over and go back to sleep easily. I have taken to sleeping with a pillow over my head. It makes it dark and quiet, all in one fell swoop. I have also used earplugs and an eye mask in the past. Dh, on the other hand, can sleep almost anywhere. He is a heavy sleeper, and routinely falls asleep on the sofa in the middle of a show, or during a movie, or in bed while I have the overhead light on and am getting ready for bed, etc. It takes a bit to wake him in the middle of the night. The kids can be up and down 3-4 times, in and out of our room, talking, etc, and he hears none of it. My DH is now conditioned to it. DH is actually not a light sleeper at all. For more than a year he slept right through DD's night wakings even tho she was 2 inches from him (except when she really screamed, which was rare then). Since he took over night duty though, he does wake all the time. Unfortunately I do too. I think part of the reason her night wakings are getting harder to deal with is that I also have to deal with DH's lack of sleep grumpiness ;-). I can handle lack of sleep much better than he can, although even I have my limits! Dh was conditioned to it for a while, but as the kids got older and wake less and less frequently, he's basically given up night wakings back to me. On the plus side, though, he gets up with the girls every morning and lets me sleep in for another hour or so. While both girls were babies though, he'd pop right up and get them if he needed to. We would alternate nights On Duty, and on his nights, he was great. On my nights, he'd sleep through. Sometimes I'd have to go to "Holiday Inn" which is what we named our downstairs guest room, so that I wouldn't wake up when the baby cried. -- Jamie Clark |
#36
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How to stop the night wakings?
On Mar 14, 2:19 pm, "Jamie Clark" wrote:
Dh was conditioned to it for a while, but as the kids got older and wake less and less frequently, he's basically given up night wakings back to me. On the plus side, though, he gets up with the girls every morning and lets me sleep in for another hour or so. While both girls were babies though, he'd pop right up and get them if he needed to. We would alternate nights On Duty, and on his nights, he was great. On my nights, he'd sleep through. Sometimes I'd have to go to "Holiday Inn" which is what we named our downstairs guest room, so that I wouldn't wake up when the baby cried. I am so conditioned that when I really am at a real Holiday Inn (or hotel of some sort, away on business overnight) , I still wake up at the same time she does. That's also why I'm fairly certain it's a habit all around. |
#37
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How to stop the night wakings?
In article , Jamie Clark says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , cjra says... On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote: cjra wrote: On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message ... On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort and lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes. ??????? It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to do. I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will make a difference. Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable? A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing? Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very well may not work. A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress topper. Not a whole bed. When talking about mattresses, I refer to them as beds as well. So I understood her to mean that she couldn't afford/didn't want to spend that much money on a new bed/mattress. A new mattress can run a few thousand dollars, so it's not a minor thing. Even a mattress pad or topper can be a few hundred for a really good one. And if her dh is as picky as I am, you can't just throw a $30 pad on top of a bed that you consider to be uncomfortable -- it just doesn't do anything. This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast, looking for some magic fix. With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is done. Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work, and how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you seem to really be able to envision things finally working. Sometimes muddling through is the only thing that people seem to be able to get to work. For whatever reason. And it *is* an option. Folks here are trying to come up with *better* options for you, but it is an option. Banty I totally understand where she is coming from. She wants to start small and simple and work up to the bigger possible solutions. As she said, it's like going for brain surgery for a headache, or burning down your house to kill a rat. Yes, it might solve the problem, but so would several other less extreme measures. Obviously you want to solve the problem with the easiest/fastest solution if at all possible. I'm sure if she discovers that the easy solutions don't work, she'll keep trying other things until she gets to the more difficult ones. OK, thats fine. It's just that when there are sooo many limits placed on a problem, it may never converge to a solution. Blame the engineer in me. Not only are there things about the people involved being sensitive to various things (not criticizing) that limit the options, theres all kinds of limits on cost, effort, 'consumerism', etc. etc. I understand wanting to go for the simplest effective solution. But one needs to give the problem enough latitude to actually be able to *have* an effective solution at all! Which is when I say, if everything's so hard, consider just staying the way things are since at least when the house is done things should settle down. There's a natural time limit to the problem, so maybe sheer endurance is the solution. I don't think we'll be reading about any suicides ;-) Thats the only point I'm making. Now, myself as a mom who was single from the beginning and bought a house when my son was 18 months old, I had the house remods done a little at a time, so as to not corner myself with this kind of grand undertaking. But they are where they are with that .. Banty |
#38
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How to stop the night wakings?
In article ,
cjra says... I am a very light sleeper. I can't sleep with noise or lights. I can't sleep sitting up (in an airplane, train, or car, for example). I don't fall asleep with the TV on, either in bed, or downstairs while watching. Dh can't stay up in bed and read, or even use a laptop, as that would be too much light for me and it would keep me awake. Yes! Now that is true. I am definitely a light sleeper, all the same issues Jaime described. Really stinks on 20+ hour plane flights but life goes on. I had sleep issues as a kid though, according to my parents, and as a teen had bouts of insomnia frequently. I sleep deeply pretty much as soon as my head hits the pillow; but I could *never* sleep or even doze much in the half-sitting position that is the best that can be managed in an airplane. In cattle-class, anyway :-) There's only so mucn one can do about that sort of thing. Other than trying not to make is worse by getting PO'ed if one is awakened. Banty |
#39
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How to stop the night wakings?
On Mar 14, 2:49 pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Jamie Clark says... "Banty" wrote in message ... In article , cjra says... On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote: cjra wrote: On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message ... On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort and lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes. ??????? It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to do. I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will make a difference. Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable? A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing? Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very well may not work. A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress topper. Not a whole bed. When talking about mattresses, I refer to them as beds as well. So I understood her to mean that she couldn't afford/didn't want to spend that much money on a new bed/mattress. A new mattress can run a few thousand dollars, so it's not a minor thing. Even a mattress pad or topper can be a few hundred for a really good one. And if her dh is as picky as I am, you can't just throw a $30 pad on top of a bed that you consider to be uncomfortable -- it just doesn't do anything. This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast, looking for some magic fix. With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is done. Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work, and how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you seem to really be able to envision things finally working. Sometimes muddling through is the only thing that people seem to be able to get to work. For whatever reason. And it *is* an option. Folks here are trying to come up with *better* options for you, but it is an option. Banty I totally understand where she is coming from. She wants to start small and simple and work up to the bigger possible solutions. As she said, it's like going for brain surgery for a headache, or burning down your house to kill a rat. Yes, it might solve the problem, but so would several other less extreme measures. Obviously you want to solve the problem with the easiest/fastest solution if at all possible. I'm sure if she discovers that the easy solutions don't work, she'll keep trying other things until she gets to the more difficult ones. OK, thats fine. It's just that when there are sooo many limits placed on a problem, it may never converge to a solution. Blame the engineer in me. Not only are there things about the people involved being sensitive to various things (not criticizing) that limit the options, theres all kinds of limits on cost, effort, 'consumerism', etc. etc. I understand wanting to go for the simplest effective solution. But one needs to give the problem enough latitude to actually be able to *have* an effective solution at all! I'm guessing you missed the first 20-30 or so posts in this thread, where a number of solutions were offered and discussed, and I said I was going to try some of them for a certain length of time to see how they worked. Some I've already tried and they didn't work, so I'm on to the next step. or they worked for awhile but now no longer. I rejected other solutions as not feasible or just simply more extreme than I felt was warranted initially. Those rejected solutions are what led to more extreme options. The perfectly feasible and realistic options are in the works. I think that's sufficient latitude. If you can't see all the messages on your newsreader, try reading through google groups, as then you can see all the messages and you'll find all the ones where we discussed those things I'm about to try. If you don't feel like reading all the messages I can't blame you, but you must also understand that if you jump into a discussion late, you can't draw any conclusions as you've missed a lot. Which is when I say, if everything's so hard, consider just staying the way things are since at least when the house is done things should settle down. There's a natural time limit to the problem, so maybe sheer endurance is the solution. But everything is not so hard. I never said it was. There were plenty of suggestions that were quite simple. Others took those a step further to offer what they felt were simple suggestions, but in our situation were not. I simply expained why those suggestions were not realistic at this time. I haven't rejected the simpler suggestions at all. Now, myself as a mom who was single from the beginning and bought a house when my son was 18 months old, I had the house remods done a little at a time, so as to not corner myself with this kind of grand undertaking. Good for you. Our house was not livable when we purchased it. We tore it down to the studs. We rented for about 6 months, but could no longer afford to pay a mortgage and rent and made the house livable. We are working on it one room at a time, in the midst of having a family. There are a variety of reasons why we chose the house we did, in the circumstances we had. I have yet to complain about the house and am not 'blaming' it for my daughter's sleep issues. I described it up only because the suggestions some had didn't fit with our current housing circumstances and it was clear from some responses that folks didn't quite understand the type of housing situation we were in. |
#40
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How to stop the night wakings?
In article ,
cjra says... On Mar 14, 2:49 pm, Banty wrote: In article , Jamie Clark says... "Banty" wrote in message ... In article , cjra says... On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote: cjra wrote: On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message ... On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote: "cjra" wrote in message btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort and lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes. ??????? It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to do. I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will make a difference. Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable? A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing? Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very well may not work. A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress topper. Not a whole bed. When talking about mattresses, I refer to them as beds as well. So I understood her to mean that she couldn't afford/didn't want to spend that much money on a new bed/mattress. A new mattress can run a few thousand dollars, so it's not a minor thing. Even a mattress pad or topper can be a few hundred for a really good one. And if her dh is as picky as I am, you can't just throw a $30 pad on top of a bed that you consider to be uncomfortable -- it just doesn't do anything. This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast, looking for some magic fix. With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is done. Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work, and how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you seem to really be able to envision things finally working. Sometimes muddling through is the only thing that people seem to be able to get to work. For whatever reason. And it *is* an option. Folks here are trying to come up with *better* options for you, but it is an option. Banty I totally understand where she is coming from. She wants to start small and simple and work up to the bigger possible solutions. As she said, it's like going for brain surgery for a headache, or burning down your house to kill a rat. Yes, it might solve the problem, but so would several other less extreme measures. Obviously you want to solve the problem with the easiest/fastest solution if at all possible. I'm sure if she discovers that the easy solutions don't work, she'll keep trying other things until she gets to the more difficult ones. OK, thats fine. It's just that when there are sooo many limits placed on a problem, it may never converge to a solution. Blame the engineer in me. Not only are there things about the people involved being sensitive to various things (not criticizing) that limit the options, theres all kinds of limits on cost, effort, 'consumerism', etc. etc. I understand wanting to go for the simplest effective solution. But one needs to give the problem enough latitude to actually be able to *have* an effective solution at all! I'm guessing you missed the first 20-30 or so posts in this thread, where a number of solutions were offered and discussed, and I said I was going to try some of them for a certain length of time to see how they worked. Some I've already tried and they didn't work, so I'm on to the next step. or they worked for awhile but now no longer. I rejected other solutions as not feasible or just simply more extreme than I felt was warranted initially. Those rejected solutions are what led to more extreme options. The perfectly feasible and realistic options are in the works. I think that's sufficient latitude. I *have* been reading. Just not commenting as I didnt have the same issue. But I think there is some reaching for the simple, but likely ineffective going on. Like the failed dieter saying "i tried this; i tried that...."... If you can't see all the messages on your newsreader, try reading through google groups, as then you can see all the messages and you'll find all the ones where we discussed those things I'm about to try. If you don't feel like reading all the messages I can't blame you, but you must also understand that if you jump into a discussion late, you can't draw any conclusions as you've missed a lot. Oh thank you very much :-/, after 15 years on Usenet without you I would have had no clue how to read a newsgroup. Which is when I say, if everything's so hard, consider just staying the way things are since at least when the house is done things should settle down. There's a natural time limit to the problem, so maybe sheer endurance is the solution. But everything is not so hard. I never said it was. There were plenty of suggestions that were quite simple. Others took those a step further to offer what they felt were simple suggestions, but in our situation were not. I simply expained why those suggestions were not realistic at this time. I haven't rejected the simpler suggestions at all. Now, myself as a mom who was single from the beginning and bought a house when my son was 18 months old, I had the house remods done a little at a time, so as to not corner myself with this kind of grand undertaking. Good for you. Our house was not livable when we purchased it. We tore it down to the studs. We rented for about 6 months, but could no longer afford to pay a mortgage and rent and made the house livable. We are working on it one room at a time, in the midst of having a family. There are a variety of reasons why we chose the house we did, in the circumstances we had. I have yet to complain about the house and am not 'blaming' it for my daughter's sleep issues. I described it up only because the suggestions some had didn't fit with our current housing circumstances and it was clear from some responses that folks didn't quite understand the type of housing situation we were in. Well, getting a pretty much livable house, although a fixer, would have been easier (but I'm sure you'll list your reasons why you couldn't do *that*). But that's water under the bridge. I'm guessing you just underestimated the amount of upheaval all the remod would be. But that's just human. All I'm saying is.. maybe the bottom line of all this is that, between changes you can't, or won't, do, it doesnt really in the end matter all that much which is which, and you can maybe just hold on until the house is all done. Banty |
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