advice for child support

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"LLL" wrote in message
ups.com...
$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how much
NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has got
to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical insurance,
and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I
earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross
income
is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.

Why would you include your own social security payments, life insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

SS is spousal support. All the items I listed were court ordered in the
divorce decree. Life insurance was ordered to guarantee to payment of CS
in
the event of my death.


And why would it frost your butt that the woman aren't worried about the
man's taxes on the man's income? Why should that be the woman's concern?

Because the women who cite percentages of a man's income do so to make it
sound like the amount paid is a very small amount of a man's gross income.
In fact, many women only cite the CS award amount and leave out the life
insurance, medical insurance, childcare expenses, etc. when they play this
game. They also ignore the facts the man loses his married filing status,
the dependent exemptions, the itemized deductions, and the ability to
qualify for tax credits. All of those tax related items significantly
reduce a man's net income.

Amy makes a habit of ignoring facts.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"LLL" wrote in message
ups.com...
$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how much
NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has got
to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical insurance,
and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross income
is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.

Why would you include your own social security payments, life insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

I thought he was saying Spousal Support--not social security.

Still isn't child support though, is it?




And why would it frost your butt that the woman aren't worried about the
man's taxes on the man's income? Why should that be the woman's concern?

Well, to me it is an issue of fairness, Moon. Why *wouldn't* the CP want
there to be fairness--if the NCP earns the money, don't you think the NCP
should have enough left to live decently on? Do you think it is ok that
the NCP ends up taking home only 25 cents out of every dollar he earns?

Not what I said at all, Teach. I was asking Bob why it would frost his butt
that his taxes on his income isn't any one else's concern.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"LLL" wrote in message
ups.com...
$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how much
NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has got
to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical insurance,
and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I
earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross
income
is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.

Why would you include your own social security payments, life insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

SS is spousal support. All the items I listed were court ordered in the
divorce decree. Life insurance was ordered to guarantee to payment of CS
in
the event of my death.

My ex and I were both ordered to carry our life insurance as well - it isn't
limited to the NCP's Bob.

In any event - none of those are child support, are they?




And why would it frost your butt that the woman aren't worried about the
man's taxes on the man's income? Why should that be the woman's concern?

Because the women who cite percentages of a man's income do so to make it
sound like the amount paid is a very small amount of a man's gross income.

How in the world would you claim to know what someone else's intentions
were?


In fact, many women only cite the CS award amount and leave out the life
insurance, medical insurance, childcare expenses, etc. when they play this
game.

On the other hand, some of us leave it out because WE are the ones paying
for the life insurance, medical insurance, child care expenses etc.

They also ignore the facts the man loses his married filing status,

Doesn't the woman lose her married filing status too?



the dependent exemptions,

Why would he necessarily lose this? Shoot, the majority of divorced people
I encounter split the exemptions.


the itemized deductions,

Why would being divorced cause him to lose the itemized deductions?


and the ability to
qualify for tax credits.

Why would being divorced lose the ability to qualify for tax credits, if he
had qualified for them pre-divorce?

All of those tax related items significantly
reduce a man's net income.

Pretty far stretch to claim that divorce causes him to lose all those
(except for the married filing status, but hey, the woman loses that one,
too)

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
news

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"LLL" wrote in message
ups.com...
$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts
daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how
much
NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life
insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has
got
to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical
insurance,
and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I
earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross
income
is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.

Why would you include your own social security payments, life insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

SS is spousal support. All the items I listed were court ordered in the
divorce decree. Life insurance was ordered to guarantee to payment of
CS
in
the event of my death.

My ex and I were both ordered to carry our life insurance as well - it
isn't
limited to the NCP's Bob.

Did the court order you to increase your life insurance and set the amount
you had to carry? Did the court tell you who your benficiaries could be?
Did the court tell you what the consequences would be if you didn't follow
the court's order?


In any event - none of those are child support, are they?

That's why I listed them as individual court ordered items rather than
lumping them together and calling them CS.





And why would it frost your butt that the woman aren't worried about
the
man's taxes on the man's income? Why should that be the woman's
concern?

Because the women who cite percentages of a man's income do so to make
it
sound like the amount paid is a very small amount of a man's gross
income.

How in the world would you claim to know what someone else's intentions
were?

The comment I was responding to was about the $1200 CS being a lot. I
pointed out $1200 was 23% of gross income and many court orders far exceed
23% of gross income.



In fact, many women only cite the CS award amount and leave out the life
insurance, medical insurance, childcare expenses, etc. when they play
this
game.

On the other hand, some of us leave it out because WE are the ones paying
for the life insurance, medical insurance, child care expenses etc.

They also ignore the facts the man loses his married filing status,

The NCP father goes from married to single filing status.


Doesn't the woman lose her married filing status too?

Yes. But the CP mother goes from married to head of household filing status
which does not change the amount due on her income.




the dependent exemptions,

Why would he necessarily lose this? Shoot, the majority of divorced
people
I encounter split the exemptions.

The default position in IRS tax law is the CP gets the exemptions. If the
NCP gets a split they obvioously give up something else to gain this tax
advantage.



the itemized deductions,

Why would being divorced cause him to lose the itemized deductions?

The CP gets the home and with that comes the mortgage interest and property
tax deductions.



and the ability to
qualify for tax credits.

Why would being divorced lose the ability to qualify for tax credits, if
he
had qualified for them pre-divorce?

Tax credits are tied to the exemptions. Loss of exemptions means loss of
tax credits.


All of those tax related items significantly
reduce a man's net income.

Pretty far stretch to claim that divorce causes him to lose all those
(except for the married filing status, but hey, the woman loses that one,
too)

My federal and state incomes taxes went up $450 per month post-divorce on
the same income. My ex paid zero federal and state taxes because she
retained all the exemptions and deductions and could file head of household.
I considered the extra $450 per month taxes I paid to be hidden alimony.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
news

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"LLL" wrote in message
ups.com...
$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts
daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how
much
NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life
insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has
got
to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical
insurance,
and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of
net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I
earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross
income
is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.

Why would you include your own social security payments, life
insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with
your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

SS is spousal support. All the items I listed were court ordered in
the
divorce decree. Life insurance was ordered to guarantee to payment of
CS
in
the event of my death.

My ex and I were both ordered to carry our life insurance as well - it
isn't
limited to the NCP's Bob.

Did the court order you to increase your life insurance and set the amount
you had to carry?

I was already well insured, and yes, the courts said that I had to keep the
pre-divorce levels.

Did the court tell you who your benficiaries could be?

Yes, the children.


Did the court tell you what the consequences would be if you didn't follow
the court's order?

There are apparently no consequences, considering that my ex allowed his
insurance to lapse - he has suffered no penalties at all.




In any event - none of those are child support, are they?

That's why I listed them as individual court ordered items rather than
lumping them together and calling them CS.





And why would it frost your butt that the woman aren't worried about
the
man's taxes on the man's income? Why should that be the woman's
concern?

Because the women who cite percentages of a man's income do so to make
it
sound like the amount paid is a very small amount of a man's gross
income.

How in the world would you claim to know what someone else's intentions
were?

The comment I was responding to was about the $1200 CS being a lot. I
pointed out $1200 was 23% of gross income and many court orders far exceed
23% of gross income.

And many are for less than 23% of gross income.





In fact, many women only cite the CS award amount and leave out the
life
insurance, medical insurance, childcare expenses, etc. when they play
this
game.

On the other hand, some of us leave it out because WE are the ones paying
for the life insurance, medical insurance, child care expenses etc.

They also ignore the facts the man loses his married filing status,

The NCP father goes from married to single filing status.


Doesn't the woman lose her married filing status too?

Yes. But the CP mother goes from married to head of household filing
status
which does not change the amount due on her income.

Always? Because you sure seem to want to make it seem as though this is
ALWAYS the case.





the dependent exemptions,

Why would he necessarily lose this? Shoot, the majority of divorced
people
I encounter split the exemptions.

The default position in IRS tax law is the CP gets the exemptions. If the
NCP gets a split they obvioously give up something else to gain this tax
advantage.

Or not - some simply split the exemptions because it's fair.




the itemized deductions,

Why would being divorced cause him to lose the itemized deductions?

The CP gets the home and with that comes the mortgage interest and
property
tax deductions.

Even when there's no home, or the home is sold and the proceeds split as
community property? How does that work, Bob?





and the ability to
qualify for tax credits.

Why would being divorced lose the ability to qualify for tax credits, if
he
had qualified for them pre-divorce?

Tax credits are tied to the exemptions. Loss of exemptions means loss of
tax credits.

Try for specificity - which tax credits did the father qualify for, before
divorce, that he no longer qualifies for?



All of those tax related items significantly
reduce a man's net income.

Pretty far stretch to claim that divorce causes him to lose all those
(except for the married filing status, but hey, the woman loses that one,
too)

My federal and state incomes taxes went up $450 per month post-divorce on
the same income.


This isn't about you, Bob.

My ex paid zero federal and state taxes because she
retained all the exemptions and deductions and could file head of
household.
I considered the extra $450 per month taxes I paid to be hidden alimony.

This still isn't about you, Bob - anecdotes do not facts make.

Moon Shyne wrote:

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"LLL" wrote in message
roups.com...

$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how much NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has got to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical insurance, and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross income
is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.


Why would you include your own social security payments, life insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

Moon Shyne, I find this post to be annoying.

This is your first warning.

- Ron Poirier ^*^

"Werebat" wrote in message
news:ssYxf.8239$Dh.2437@dukeread04...


Moon Shyne wrote:

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"LLL" wrote in message
groups.com...

$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how much
NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has got to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical insurance,
and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross income
is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.


Why would you include your own social security payments, life insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

Moon Shyne, I find this post to be annoying.

This is your first warning.

What makes you think I give a rat's ass what you find?

3 guesses what you can do with your warning, moron



- Ron Poirier ^*^

Moon Shyne wrote:
"Werebat" wrote in message
news:ssYxf.8239$Dh.2437@dukeread04...


Moon Shyne wrote:


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net...


"LLL" wrote in message
egroups.com...


$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how much
NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has got to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical insurance,
and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross income
is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.


Why would you include your own social security payments, life insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

Moon Shyne, I find this post to be annoying.

This is your first warning.


What makes you think I give a rat's ass what you find?

3 guesses what you can do with your warning, moron

"Moonshyne", whoever you are, I find this last post of yours which
includes vulgar language and namecalling to be hurtful and annoying. I
am now formally demanding that you identify yourself.

It is bad enough that you openly ridicule the men's movement and its
proponents, but that you do so in such a blatantly hurtful and annoying
way, and behind a mask of anonymity, is beyond pardon.

I have already warned you once.

- Ronald Poirier ^*^

"Werebat" wrote in message
news:5b%xf.8261$Dh.879@dukeread04...


Moon Shyne wrote:
"Werebat" wrote in message
news:ssYxf.8239$Dh.2437@dukeread04...


Moon Shyne wrote:


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
rthlink.net...


"LLL" wrote in message
legroups.com...


$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how much
NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has got
to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical insurance,
and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I
earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross
income is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.


Why would you include your own social security payments, life insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

Moon Shyne, I find this post to be annoying.

This is your first warning.


What makes you think I give a rat's ass what you find?

3 guesses what you can do with your warning, moron

"Moonshyne", whoever you are, I find this last post of yours which
includes vulgar language and namecalling to be hurtful and annoying. I am
now formally demanding that you identify yourself.

It is bad enough that you openly ridicule the men's movement and its
proponents, but that you do so in such a blatantly hurtful and annoying
way, and behind a mask of anonymity, is beyond pardon.

I have already warned you once.

Let's try this in words of one syllable, since your comprehension seems to
be as bit lacking.

Kiss Off.



- Ronald Poirier ^*^

Moon Shyne wrote:

"Werebat" wrote in message
news:5b%xf.8261$Dh.879@dukeread04...


Moon Shyne wrote:

"Werebat" wrote in message
news:ssYxf.8239$Dh.2437@dukeread04...


Moon Shyne wrote:



"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
arthlink.net...



"LLL" wrote in message
glegroups.com...



$1200.00 per month in child support for one child.


Wow!!!! that is a lot more than in my state unless that counts daycare
or some extraordinary expense.

CP's (and I'm sure LLL is a female CP) have no perspective on how much
NCP
men are really ordered to pay in CS, medical insurance, life insurance,
child care expenses, etc.

The $1,200 payment cited is 22.9% of his gross income and that has got
to
approach at least 50% or more of his net income after taxes.

When I got divorced my combined payment for CS, SS, medical insurance,
and
life insurance took over 34% of my gross income. As a percent of net
income
after taxes it took 75%. I only retained $.25 of every dollar I
earned.

It just frosts my butt that women claim ONLY 23% of a man's gross
income is
not that much. Particularly when taxes take another 40%.


Why would you include your own social security payments, life insurance
payments and your share of your medical insurance payments in with your
child support payments? You using that fuzzy math?

Moon Shyne, I find this post to be annoying.

This is your first warning.


What makes you think I give a rat's ass what you find?

3 guesses what you can do with your warning, moron

"Moonshyne", whoever you are, I find this last post of yours which
includes vulgar language and namecalling to be hurtful and annoying. I am
now formally demanding that you identify yourself.

It is bad enough that you openly ridicule the men's movement and its
proponents, but that you do so in such a blatantly hurtful and annoying
way, and behind a mask of anonymity, is beyond pardon.

I have already warned you once.


Let's try this in words of one syllable, since your comprehension seems to
be as bit lacking.

Kiss Off.

So let me get this straight:

1. You are deliberately calling me names, insulting my intelligence, and
telling me to "kiss off" on the internet when I have already told you
that I find it annoying when you do so

2. You are doing this under cover of anonymity

3. You refuse to identify yourself, even when asked

Does that about cover it?

- Ronald Poirier ^*^