Ugh!

There was a program on ITV tonight called "I smack and I'm proud"

It mainly concentrated on 4 families, who were all offering the usual
excuses ("did me no harm", "The bible says it's ok", "you'e got to
teach them to become good citizens" etc.)

however, The behaviour of one of the parents was truly disgraceful. She
was hitting her kids around the head. seemingly using whatever objects
she cioudl find, at one point the kids were doing homework and she said
"That's one mistake, you make 3 and I'll smack you"


Ironically, there was an ad for the NSPCC in one of the breaks - I
really felt like ringing them to complain about her

Dan wrote:
There was a program on ITV tonight called "I smack and I'm proud"

It mainly concentrated on 4 families, who were all offering the usual
excuses ("did me no harm", "The bible says it's ok", "you'e got to
teach them to become good citizens" etc.)

however, The behaviour of one of the parents was truly disgraceful. She
was hitting her kids around the head. seemingly using whatever objects
she cioudl find, at one point the kids were doing homework and she said
"That's one mistake, you make 3 and I'll smack you"


Ironically, there was an ad for the NSPCC in one of the breaks - I
really felt like ringing them to complain about her



.........waiting, waiting, waiting.

0:-

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Dan wrote:
There was a program on ITV tonight called "I smack and I'm proud"

I did not see the program so can't comment on it directly, but I do
think that there is a place for some corporal punishment. I am
certainly not condoning what you describe in the program.

There are however times when a child's wellbeing, or even life, depend
on it obeying an explicit instruction immediately. Children that don't
know and understand that a certain urgent tone of voice means do it
now, or else, suffer injury and death on a regular basis. This should
be part of normal a href="http://parenting.wiseway.info"child
development/a.

In Finland it is illegal to administer any form of corporal punishment,
by anyone, at anytime, and the culture has grown to find it
unacceptable. There have been 4 well reported cases this year of
children being killed by vehicles in front of their parents eyes, where
the parents shouted warnings but the child did not choose to obey.

I am inclined to think that the parents directly created the
circumstances that led to those childrens deaths, by not training the
children to obey when it is required. I do agree that that training
could have been done without corporal punishment, but few parents have
the skill to do that.

On 22 Sep 2006 wrote:


Dan wrote:
There was a program on ITV tonight called "I smack and I'm proud"

I did not see the program so can't comment on it directly, but I do
think that there is a place for some corporal punishment. I am
certainly not condoning what you describe in the program.

There are however times when a child's wellbeing, or even life, depend
on it obeying an explicit instruction immediately. Children that don't
know and understand that a certain urgent tone of voice means do it
now, or else, suffer injury and death on a regular basis. This should
be part of normal a href="http://parenting.wiseway.info"child
development/a.

In Finland it is illegal to administer any form of corporal punishment,
by anyone, at anytime, and the culture has grown to find it
unacceptable. There have been 4 well reported cases this year of
children being killed by vehicles in front of their parents eyes, where
the parents shouted warnings but the child did not choose to obey.

I am inclined to think that the parents directly created the
circumstances that led to those childrens deaths, by not training the
children to obey when it is required. I do agree that that training
could have been done without corporal punishment, but few parents have
the skill to do that.

I believe Finland has outlawed spanking since 1983. So what has the law
accomplished? Has it reduced child-abuse? Has it reduced violent
crimes? And what alternatives are being used? I've read alot about
Sweden but not much about Finland.

"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely
on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most
commonly used is verbal conflict resolution, which invites parents as well
as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that
discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm
hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that
yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out
that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the
problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than
physical punishment." Haeuser

Doan

Doan wrote:
On 22 Sep 2006 wrote:


Dan wrote:
There was a program on ITV tonight called "I smack and I'm proud"

I did not see the program so can't comment on it directly, but I do
think that there is a place for some corporal punishment. I am
certainly not condoning what you describe in the program.

There are however times when a child's wellbeing, or even life, depend
on it obeying an explicit instruction immediately. Children that don't
know and understand that a certain urgent tone of voice means do it
now, or else, suffer injury and death on a regular basis. This should
be part of normal a href="http://parenting.wiseway.info"child
development/a.

In Finland it is illegal to administer any form of corporal punishment,
by anyone, at anytime, and the culture has grown to find it
unacceptable. There have been 4 well reported cases this year of
children being killed by vehicles in front of their parents eyes, where
the parents shouted warnings but the child did not choose to obey.

I am inclined to think that the parents directly created the
circumstances that led to those childrens deaths, by not training the
children to obey when it is required. I do agree that that training
could have been done without corporal punishment, but few parents have
the skill to do that.

I believe Finland has outlawed spanking since 1983. So what has the law
accomplished? Has it reduced child-abuse? Has it reduced violent
crimes? And what alternatives are being used? I've read alot about
Sweden but not much about Finland.

"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely
on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most
commonly used is verbal conflict resolution, which invites parents as well
as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that
discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm
hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that
yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out
that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the
problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than
physical punishment." Haeuser

It is as presumptively ingenuous to believe that all, or the majority
of a group follow the same pattern of behavior without proof.

That someone, or even some ones, do something is not proof that it is
the rule or the habit for others.

We do not, for instance, presume that all parents spank, nor that those
that don't spank are forced to fall back on yelling.

I do believe you are attempting, as you have in the past, to promote
this falsehood.

Some do, some don't, just as some spanking parents yell, and some
don't.

The non-spankers I know generally have more than enough other skills in
their parenting repertoire, and a willingness, when needed to find more
and do not use yelling as a parenting method. They seem to know how to
engage a child and get their attention by other means.

Are you planing on having children, Doan?

Kane


Doan

On 22 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 22 Sep 2006 wrote:


Dan wrote:
There was a program on ITV tonight called "I smack and I'm proud"

I did not see the program so can't comment on it directly, but I do
think that there is a place for some corporal punishment. I am
certainly not condoning what you describe in the program.

There are however times when a child's wellbeing, or even life, depend
on it obeying an explicit instruction immediately. Children that don't
know and understand that a certain urgent tone of voice means do it
now, or else, suffer injury and death on a regular basis. This should
be part of normal a href="http://parenting.wiseway.info"child
development/a.

In Finland it is illegal to administer any form of corporal punishment,
by anyone, at anytime, and the culture has grown to find it
unacceptable. There have been 4 well reported cases this year of
children being killed by vehicles in front of their parents eyes, where
the parents shouted warnings but the child did not choose to obey.

I am inclined to think that the parents directly created the
circumstances that led to those childrens deaths, by not training the
children to obey when it is required. I do agree that that training
could have been done without corporal punishment, but few parents have
the skill to do that.

I believe Finland has outlawed spanking since 1983. So what has the law
accomplished? Has it reduced child-abuse? Has it reduced violent
crimes? And what alternatives are being used? I've read alot about
Sweden but not much about Finland.

"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely
on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most
commonly used is verbal conflict resolution, which invites parents as well
as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that
discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm
hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that
yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out
that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the
problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than
physical punishment." Haeuser

It is as presumptively ingenuous to believe that all, or the majority
of a group follow the same pattern of behavior without proof.

That someone, or even some ones, do something is not proof that it is
the rule or the habit for others.

We do not, for instance, presume that all parents spank, nor that those
that don't spank are forced to fall back on yelling.

I do believe you are attempting, as you have in the past, to promote
this falsehood.

Some do, some don't, just as some spanking parents yell, and some
don't.

The non-spankers I know generally have more than enough other skills in
their parenting repertoire, and a willingness, when needed to find more
and do not use yelling as a parenting method. They seem to know how to
engage a child and get their attention by other means.

Are you planing on having children, Doan?

Kane

Tell that to the researcher, Kane! You know who Haeuser is, right? ;-)

Doan