TV choices and tweens

In article , beeswing wrote:
When is the age where you, as a parent, should start to give in and let the
child make her own media choices, TV in particular, whether or not you
agree
with them (within reason)? I'm not suggesting letting The Kid watch "Debbie
Does Dallas," but we got into a major row this weekend over "Pokemon: The
Movie
2000." I still dislike and disapprove of Pokemon, but I have gotta question
whether *that* was worth the energy, at her age (9).

We have not been censoring our 8-year-old son's TV or computer viewing
for content. Instead we limit total screen time each day (one hour a
day, except on special occasions---we let him watch a 2-hour special
on PBS kids on Memorial Day), and let him choose how he wants to spend
it. He has generally gravitated toward choices that we don't object
to (Arthur, Cyberchase, MathBlaster computer games, PDB Kids website).
He has enjoyed watching the first year of "Rocky and Bullwinkle" on
DVD on my laptop computer with me, which does have some cartoon
violence. Occasionally he'll go on a short kick of some less
desirable thing (currently the Nesquik website). At home in Santa
Cruz, he gets no TV (we don't have a TV), so he has not developed a TV
habit.

We have not fully handed over the reins to him---we continue to ration
the screen time, and remove screen privileges entirely when he doesn't
do his homework or misbehaves.

So let's move past the discussion of Pokemon specifically, if we
can, and talk about at what
age you hand over the TV reins. (The same issue applies to books read,
movies
attended, and bunches of other stuff.) When does the issue go from your
first
priority, as a parent, being supervising your kid's media input and move
over
to "choosing your battles" and keeping them to a minimum? And how far do
you
budge? How do you know where to put the new lines in the sand -- and
how do you go about justifying those?

For TV, we limit total time, and let him choose within that restriction.
For books, we often check out books for him (usually giving him a
stack of books to select from), because he usually wants to spend his
time in the library reading dozens of picture books rather than
selecting chapter books to take home. It is unlikely that he will
choose a book that we disapprove of (there's not much in the public
library that we would object to his reading, and he's unlikely to
choose anything objectionable in the first place).


It doesn't help that there was a kid in her class at school rattling off a
list
of movies and programs my kid has never seen. I don't want my kid to be a
media
pariah, but on the other hand "everybody else gets to watch it" isn't a
very
strong argument in my book.

I don't mind my son being a media pariah, though the lack of TV
viewing has not turned out to have any negative social consequences so far.
He does get to see a fair number of movies (he and his Mom went to
Shreck II last weekend, and we have tickets to see the new Harry
Potter film in the IMAX theater at the Pacific Science Center).

Right now, he does not go to movies by himself, so we have full
control over his movie viewing. We don't take him to violent films,
because we don't watch them ourselves. The furthest we've gone in
that direction with him is "The Triplets of Belleville" which is great
animation, though a bit violent. (It may also be the best bicycle
film ever made.)

Thanks for your thoughts, Kevin. Watch for us at the IMAX perfomance of Harry
Potter...we well may be there.

If your kid's TV choices were bad, though -- would you reconsider your
approach? Or would you continue to use the "whatever you want" approach "given
the time that's alotted" ?

My kid picks out most of her own books, and that's a whole nuther kettle of
fish. I had to pull a Tamora Pierce series that I thought was way too advanced
for her...and I'm less than pleased with the Animorphs series and would love to
forbid them. She has access to them at the school libraries, though. I can see
I'll need to take a close look at what she can and what I'd rather not her
read. This is actually harder than the TV situation. There's no stopping her
from sucking in the Animorph stories, for example, at school...and just never
bringing the books home. I need to be instilling moral values, not censoring
books, per se.

It's clear that we'll have to trust her soon enough, because we have very
little choice as the circle of our control lessens. But I hope it's not quite
YET. I hope I have just a few years more.

I talked to her school teacher about it today. She told me that she lessened
the reins on her kids at about age 13, given that her kids were able to make
their own decisions at that point regarding PG-13 movies. That looks like a
good decision from here. But then again, so does putting The Kid in stasis and
making her stay 9 1/2 forever...............but I don't quite believe *that* is
an option, wish as I may.

beeswing

beeswing

"beeswing" wrote in message
...
H Schinske wrote:


I've found that PG-13 is about the most useless rating I've run up
against, at
least in figuring out what I "should" let my particular kid watch.


I agree. FWIW, I have found that www.screenit.com is an excellent resource
in determining the appropriateness of a movie for my child. They have
extremely detailed reviews and informatin about the content of the movies.
They outline what profanity is used, what type of sexuality is in the movie,
what type of defiant behavior is in there, how much smoking/drug use, etc is
in the movie.

Iowacookiemom wrote:

Have you discovered screenit.com? It's a great resource -- my only complaint
is it spoils the movie for you as the story descriptions give away plot
twists.
But there are specific descriptions of potentially objectionable elements of
movies.


Yup. I use primarily screenit.com and rottentomatoes.com in making my
decisions.

beeswing

dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
"animzmirot" wrote:

"beeswing" wrote in message
...

Actually, it helps a lot. It's nice to know there is an 11-year-old out
there
who isn't watching Pokemon!

I've got two 11 year olds that wouldn't be caught dead watching Pokemon. My
children were never allowed to watch it (I HATE anime), but they never
wanted to. I allow my kids to watch a lot of stuff other parents would
completely freak out over, because my kids are way more mature than most
kids, because they've never been scared of anything (and I mean anything),
and because they are so well versed on reality vs the media that it would be
silly to limit them on fear alone. I let me kids watch stuff that has much
more sexual content than some parents would, but much less violence than
othe parents would allow. The rule is our house is, you can buy a PG-13
movie if I approve, but not an R. If you HAVE to see an R rated movie, we'll
rent it or borrow it from the library, but that's one viewing only.

FWIW, my son's favorite show is smackdown, which he's not allowed to watch,
with a couple of other things he's also not allowed to watch. How does he
see them? Friends, m'dear. If you honestly think that middle school kids
aren't burning CDs for their friends off TIVO or off the net, you're
dreaming. You can't believe what I find by doing backpack searches. The
complete works of South Park (not allowed), for example. IOW, you can try as
hard as you can to control what tweens watch, but when it comes right down
to it, you either ditch the cable, which I did in January, or you choose
another battle. This one is just too darn hard to fight with all the media
access kids have these days.


That was one of the things that made me let up on some stuff when the
kids were smaller. I'd forbid something -- they'd watch it at a friends
house. Then, since they knew they were't supposed to watch it, they
couldn't discuss it with me . . .

I don't think my kids ever watched TV at a friend's house. We just
didn't do that much back in those days. If they were at a friend's
house they were playing outside.

Finally, I started saying that there were some things that they could
only watch WITH me. That worked out better. It gave me a chance to
TELL them why I didn't like it.

A little older still, there were things they were only allowed to watch
if I WASN'T home . . . I can't stand horror movies, and my kids (now
all over 18) enjoy them. There have also been a handful of TV shows
that I absolutely detested: Drew Carey comes to mind -- I hated the way
the people in that show treated each other, and couldn't stand watching
it -- but their Dad enjoyed it, so they'd watch it if I wasn't at home.

This sounds a lot like me. I only watch documentaries and stuff like
that and never go to the movies anymore nor do I watch them on TV. I
have a hard time watching the movies that my grand children watch
(even Toy Story or Home Alone) and I can't even watch LOTR in cartoon
form. We don't have a DVD player because why ? We don't watch movies.
Or I don't - dh has a TV downstairs so he can watch if he wants.

And my mom was somewhat the same way - doesn't do well with movies and
doesn't watch TV except for the news and public TV stuff.

Reading this, I suddenly had a flashback to my own childhood where I
was allowed to listen to some shows on the radio and not to others. I
could listen to the Lone Ranger, Ozzie and Harriet, and Jack Benny,
but not the Thin Man, and the Green Hornet only rarely because my mom
felt that it would give me nightmares. I'm not sure whether it was me
she was protecting or herself.

Movies have ended up in the same category, once they were out on DVD or
video: if I thought it was a problem, they could watch it with me. My
standards are NOT to just accept what the ratings folk give it, and
there were some R rated movies my kids watched VERY young, and some
PG-13 that I wanted nothing to do with.

Books are in a different category all together: if they could pick it
up and read it, and seemed to be enjoying it, they were welcome to it.
I never put any restrictions on their reading. That was my parent's
approach, and it seemed to work well. Now, I have one who almost never
reads, one who started reading horror stuff (Stephen King) when he was
10, and one who is currently working her way through one of MY
favorites: The Mists of Avalon.

My dd#3 says that she has read all the Harry Potter books to her son
who is now 6 - that he loves them. I think dd#1 and dd#2 also have
read them to their sons or they have read them, but they're 4 years
older.


grandma Rosalie

Dawn wrote:

A BUNCH OF GOOD STUFF, CULMINATING IN...
So follow your heart, perhaps experiment a bit by watching some things with
her, and keep the communication lines open. Wouldn't you rather she
experienced this stuff with you than without?

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. As far as your last question goes, I do
watch certain things with The Kid and would rather do that than not, but it's
usually stuff I don't overly mind watching or things I want her to see, but
with supervision. For the "Pokemon" equivalents out there, I *would* rather she
saw them without me...at a friend's house, whatever. Just not in my house. My
objections have already been registered, The Kid knows them...and I certainly
don't want to watch that dreck.... Thank goodness we have Dad, who doesn't
mind too much watching along with "Teen Titans" and "Jimmy Neutron" (the latter
show they both enjoy and watch together). But even he puts his foot down at
"Pokemon"!

beeswing

"beeswing" wrote in message
...
When is the age where you, as a parent, should start to give in and let
the
child make her own media choices, TV in particular, whether or not you
agree
with them (within reason)? I'm not suggesting letting The Kid watch
"Debbie
Does Dallas," but we got into a major row this weekend over "Pokemon: The
Movie
2000." I still dislike and disapprove of Pokemon, but I have gotta
question


I think you need to pick your battles. To me, letting them watch pokeman or
digiman or even Power rangers was not a problem because they are cartoons -
even my kids at a young age knew that this was all fantasy. They knew that
people couldn't fly through the air like that and transform. And, from the
shows I did watch with them, good always prevailed so I have no problems
with that at all.

In fact, I guess I could be considered a Bad Mom to some as I rarely banned
tv shows. The last time I chose to have more than token control was when I
was the one to set up the tv for the kids because they would be too young.

I think "is this the hill I want to die on" question and there are so many
other issues that I need to deal with, this is the least important of them.
I will ask the kids what they are watching (they're 17, 15 and almost 13
now) and if it's a show that I think is stupid, I'll tell them. If it's
objectionable to me, I'll tell them why. But, as long as they have no
homework or family work outstanding and they haven't been watching for hours
straight, I leave it to them to judge what is appropriate for them. However,
for every show they watch that I think is garbage, they watch one or two
that is very good, educaional or fun. They know how to balance their shows.

When they were younger (BTW, it must be me, because I don't consider a 9
yr-old a tween, my understanding is that a tween is 11 or 12 and there's a
big difference between most 9 yr olds and most 11 yr olds, but I digress),
they didn't watch a lot of evening tv which was when most of the
objectionable (to me) stuff was on - simply because I didn't put the tv on.

My oldest has seen at a younger-than-perhaps-should-have- been age movies
that I don't like (horror, violence) when at the theatre - unknown to me due
to different sets of circumstances and we talked about it. I explained my
issues and he would say to me that he was well aware of the separation
between reality and the movie world. Today, he has his graduation prom and
he's a gentle, kind soul with an explosive temper that surfaces from time to
time.... but so do I have such a temper and I never watched those types of
shows - ever. In fact, he's better at managing his temper than I.

Having watched families around me, I've found that the ones wth the
strictest tv controls are often the ones that the kids go to friends' houses
and don't want to leave the tv once they're there - forbidden fruit and all
that.

Obviously, this is for me and my family. But, despite not having restricted
tv time, my children are good students, well adjusted and participate
heavily in non-tv activities.


Marijke, in Montreal

Marijke wrote:

I think you need to pick your battles. To me, letting them watch pokeman or
digiman or even Power rangers was not a problem because they are cartoons -
even my kids at a young age knew that this was all fantasy. They knew that
people couldn't fly through the air like that and transform. And, from the
shows I did watch with them, good always prevailed so I have no problems
with that at all.

The Kid recognizes that it's fantasy. But I personally object to it and would
prefer she not watch it.

In fact, I guess I could be considered a Bad Mom to some as I rarely banned
tv shows. The last time I chose to have more than token control was when I
was the one to set up the tv for the kids because they would be too young.

As we know, there's no Bad Mom about it. You do what works for you and for your
family. That's why conversations such as these are so useful to me.

I think "is this the hill I want to die on" question and there are so many
other issues that I need to deal with, this is the least important of them.
I will ask the kids what they are watching (they're 17, 15 and almost 13
now) and if it's a show that I think is stupid, I'll tell them. If it's
objectionable to me, I'll tell them why. But, as long as they have no
homework or family work outstanding and they haven't been watching for hours
straight, I leave it to them to judge what is appropriate for them. However,
for every show they watch that I think is garbage, they watch one or two
that is very good, educaional or fun. They know how to balance their shows.

When they were younger (BTW, it must be me, because I don't consider a 9
yr-old a tween, my understanding is that a tween is 11 or 12 and there's a
big difference between most 9 yr olds and most 11 yr olds, but I digress),

I think of The Kid as a tween (or at least an up-and-coming tween) because I'm
up to my ears in tween issues. At 9 1/2, she's physically matured early. We
aren't dealing with the whole kettle of fish at this point, but enough of it.
This is the year of "might you want to wear an undershirt, at least?" and
"you'll need to start washing your face twice a day, when you get up and when
you go to bed." About half of the movies she is interested in are aimed at
tweens. Some of the shows she wants to watch share the same audience. An only
child, she's as used to dealing with adults as she is children...so she comes
off sounding and acting mature for her age. She's the tallest kid in her class.
If we get her in the private school we'd prefer, she'll be starting middle
school in just one more year. One of my worries, actually, is that adults
around her (including me) will take a look at her and how she acts and treat
her older than she can live up to..or assume she has judgment skills she
doesn't possess.

they didn't watch a lot of evening tv which was when most of the
objectionable (to me) stuff was on - simply because I didn't put the tv on.

The Kid is sent to bed at 8 p.m., though she has an hour to read or do
something quiet before lights out. This does spare us from dealing with the
issues posed by "prime time TV."

My oldest has seen at a younger-than-perhaps-should-have- been age movies
that I don't like (horror, violence) when at the theatre - unknown to me due
to different sets of circumstances and we talked about it. I explained my
issues and he would say to me that he was well aware of the separation
between reality and the movie world.

The Kid and I have had the same discussion many, many times. She is very
articulate and convincing. Her teacher at school has suggested many times that
she'd make a good lawyer. That doesn't mean, however, she always "wins" her
case.

Today, he has his graduation prom and
he's a gentle, kind soul with an explosive temper that surfaces from time to
time.... but so do I have such a temper and I never watched those types of
shows - ever. In fact, he's better at managing his temper than I.

I don't equate a bad temper and watching violent TV. I do believe that TV
violence can have an affect on the degree to which the littlest kids act out
and how they go about it, though, but that's not an issue for here.

Having watched families around me, I've found that the ones wth the
strictest tv controls are often the ones that the kids go to friends' houses
and don't want to leave the tv once they're there - forbidden fruit and all
that.

The Kid can take or leave TV, in general, with exception of a few shows she
really likes to watch. If she visits her friend, they will gravitate toward
"Pokemon," as you suggest. But I've approved that...basically told her (since I
know the family) that the other family's rules on TV can prevail while she's at
their house. It's hard for a particular TV show to become "forbidden fruit" if
your mom has already approved of it. But I know exactly what you mean.

Obviously, this is for me and my family. But, despite not having restricted
tv time, my children are good students, well adjusted and participate
heavily in non-tv activities.

I can well imagine. You've raised your kids to be good at making their own
choices.

I don't restrict TV time per se, by the way: I talk about TV, its value versus
other activities...I've given my opinion regarding a suggested amount of time
that I think is reasonable, but I've left it up to The Kid to decide for
herself...it's not a strict thing. I will boot her off the TV if she's watching
just to watch and has been doing so for a long time. I think she's gained the
judgment over all to make her own choices *as far as time spent.* Now I'm
working up to having her make her own choices as far as the programs she
watches...at least, within reason. But I don't think I'm totally there yet.

Thanks so much for your comments and perspective! I appreciate you taking the
time to write.

beeswing

In article ,
beeswing wrote:

I'm not ready to think about R rated movies yet. Period. And as said earlier,
I personally will do a lot of research regarding what exactly about the movie
featured earned them a "PG-13" label.

For those not familiar with it, screenit.com is a great resource for
parents trying to figure out what potentially objectionable content a
movie contains. Be aware that the parental reviews are full of spoilers,
but they do lay out in great detail what might be objectionable in a
number of different categories.

--Robyn

Robyn wrote:

In article ,
beeswing wrote:

I'm not ready to think about R rated movies yet. Period. And as I said
earlier, I personally will do a lot of research regarding what
exactly about the movie featured earned it a "PG-13" label.

For those not familiar with it, screenit.com is a great resource for
parents trying to figure out what potentially objectionable content a
movie contains. Be aware that the parental reviews are full of spoilers,
but they do lay out in great detail what might be objectionable in a
number of different categories.

Yup, good point, Robyn. I use that, and www.rottentomatoes.com (for general
reviews, not parent-centered ones), as my main resources.

beeswing

What age was your oldest girl when she took over making her own TV choices?

14-15 or so, I figured by the time she got into high school, she was old
enough! It's funny, now she monitors things her younger siblings
watch----occasionally telling me a show that i've already approved is not
appropriate!

Can relate to the only ones in the universe statement. We're the only ones in
the world that dont have cable or satellite tv, nor a dvd in the car...etc etc
etc. Oh well!
And, it doesnt get any easier!!!

Kathi