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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
This morning I read an article in the paper regarding a 15 year old boy
who the Secret Service questioned because he drew political cartoons that were against the war and President Bush. The article is he http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...rosser27m.html or http://tinyurl.com/2bhkj. I found this article to be terrifying. I have an 11 year old who loves to draw political cartoons. She will use newsmagazines to find photographs to copy from. It's not that unusual for her to produce a dozen in a sitting. Her level of humor is not that sophisticated, but then again, she is only 11 years old. Has she drawn GWB to look like a devil? She certainly has doodled little horns and spiky ears (etc.) on photographs of him, and made cartoon baloons come from his mouth to say all kinds of stupid things. Has she depicted him with his head on a pike? I don't know, but it wouldn't be impossible -- she has been relatively prolific in these drawings. Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rice, Rumsfeld -- all of them have been lampooned in her cartoons, along with other world figures, like Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Vladimir Putin, and Tony Blair. Recently I took her to a local museum exhibit that showed the political cartoons of a local artist. I have also found books by various contemporary political cartoonists for her to look at. She's never been all that jazzed by art as a means of self-expression, so I've been trying to cultivate and sharpen this interest constructively. Now I wonder if that was such a great idea. Just the threat of the Secret Service coming to question her makes my blood run cold. In fact, it might not be such a good idea to have this post signed -- moderators, can you see that this is posted anonymously? I don't mean to be paranoid, but this just completely freaks me out. |
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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
It sounds to me like you're doing a good job of fostering you child's natural
abilities for political satire and art -- that's good! Apart from her work as a political cartoonist (which I would place in the realm of artistic license) you might help her learn to separate her artwork from her actions and attitude in daily life. In our family (where political opinions run very strong and we make no secret of where we stand to our son), we have a rule that we speak with respect about anyone, even when we disagree with them. No name-calling is allowed, no one can call a person "stupid" (although policies and actions can be deemed "stupid"). We teach to respect the office of the presidency regardless of who is holding it. In recent years when Henry has made what we consider to be uncivil comments about the current administration members, we have let him know that it is NOT acceptable, any more than it would be acceptable for him to make those remarks about a neighbor he didn't like. Henry knows I do not like the current administration's policies and he knows I will go to great lengths to exercise those beliefs (I just got back from the March for Women's Lives in Washington), but he also knows that, even when I am marching with a million people, I do not approve of calling any individual names or engaging in personal attacks (I saw some doozies on Sunday and they saddened me and, I think, diluted our message). Wouldn't it be nice if all of our elected officials did the same? I direct that remark equally to folks on both sides of the aisle; I was dismayed to learn of someone in my polical party making a speech on the floor of Congress (or was it the Senate?) today calling current administration members "chicken hawks" for not serving in Vietnam. It's hard to teach kids how to disagree with civility when the role models in society can't seem to do so. As to the Secret Service's actions, I guess we have some pretty sad evidence in recent years that some 15 yo kids are indeed capable of violence, so I can't really blame them for investigating if the cartoon appeared to be a threat or warning of some kind. -Dawn Mom to Henry, 11 |
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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
I would suggest checking your child's student handbook. If it has any rules
which might be twisted to cover it (like, say, respect for authority), I'd strongly encourage the editorial cartooning to stay at home. In fact, that might not be a bad idea regardless. The recent news coverage on Doonesbury (and lots of other historical examples, many dealing with Trudeau) might be good to pull up to demonstrate that political cartoons aren't always well regarded. |
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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
In ,
Anonymous wrote: *Now I wonder if that was such a great idea. Just the threat of the Secret *Service coming to question her makes my blood run cold. In fact, it might Well, I can certainly understand being *worried*, given what was reported. That being said, frankly, it seems to me that the story doesn't really tell us all of the facts. The policeman they quote said that he felt based on the available evidence, the school was correct to call the authorities. I hope that means there was something going on other than some normal-seeming kid drawing a political cartoon. I mean, some pattern, or other weirdness, that was concerning. Also, being questioned by the Secret Service is not the end of the world. It's just an interview by a government official. If you have nothing to hide, it really should NOT be a problem at all. For the most part, those people are not out to get innocent kids in trouble! I had, years ago when I worked for an ISP, a customer who sent threatening email to the white house (actually the email he sent seems to be available for review he http://tinyurl.com/yukzw and is kind of funny...) The Secret Service questioned me for a few HOURS about it, it was no big deal being questioned. They also questioned our (mentally ill) customer, which apparently wasn't a big deal either, although it kind of fed into his whole "need to wear a tin-foil hat to keep out the voices in my head" sort of paranoia. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think the Secret Service in general is going to start going around harassing political cartoon drawing children, although I suppose it could happen, and even if they did have time to make that a priority, it wouldn't be a big deal for the most part. I hope so, anyway! -- hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large |
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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
Anonymous wrote:
This morning I read an article in the paper regarding a 15 year old boy who the Secret Service questioned because he drew political cartoons that were against the war and President Bush. The article is he http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...rosser27m.html or http://tinyurl.com/2bhkj. The problem here isn't the secret service, isn't the kid. It's the teacher, principal and school superintendent who called the secret service. They obviously have no ability to judge the seriousness of a situation and run to the authorities instead. |
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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
... In , Anonymous wrote: *Now I wonder if that was such a great idea. Just the threat of the Secret *Service coming to question her makes my blood run cold. In fact, it might Well, I can certainly understand being *worried*, given what was reported. That being said, frankly, it seems to me that the story doesn't really tell us all of the facts. The policeman they quote said that he felt based on the available evidence, the school was correct to call the authorities. I hope that means there was something going on other than some normal-seeming kid drawing a political cartoon. I mean, some pattern, or other weirdness, that was concerning. That's an assumption on your part with no basis in fact. There might have been other extenuating circumstances, but you cannot assume there were on the basis that you think there must have been. None were stated. That sounds like more of the same kind of thinking that led up to the incident in the first place. Also, being questioned by the Secret Service is not the end of the world. It's just an interview by a government official. If you have nothing to hide, it really should NOT be a problem at all. "If you have nothing to hide" being the historically key phrase to the loss of all freedoms. For the most part, those people are not out to get innocent kids in trouble! You have obviously not read the Patriot Act or the Patriot Act II. I had, years ago when I worked for an ISP, a customer who sent threatening email to the white house (actually the email he sent seems to be available for review he http://tinyurl.com/yukzw and is kind of funny...) The Secret Service questioned me for a few HOURS about it, it was no big deal being questioned. They also questioned our (mentally ill) customer, which apparently wasn't a big deal either, although it kind of fed into his whole "need to wear a tin-foil hat to keep out the voices in my head" sort of paranoia. Actually sending a threatening message the intended target of that threat is an overt act, and justifiably punishable (though, unfortunately, often not). But the counterpart to this would be writing a story about a character who writes a threatening letter, and getting punished for that. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think the Secret Service in general is going to start going around harassing political cartoon drawing children, Well, you've been proven wrong before you even made the statement. although I suppose it could happen, and even if they did have time to make that a priority, it wouldn't be a big deal for the most part. Nah, let's just all forget about it, roll over, and go back to sleep. The government is our friend. -- Byron "Barn" Canfield ----------------------------- "Politics is a strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles." -- Ambrose Bierce |
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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
Anonymous wrote:
This morning I read an article in the paper regarding a 15 year old boy who the Secret Service questioned because he drew political cartoons that were against the war and President Bush... I found this article to be terrifying. I have an 11 year old who loves to draw political cartoons. She will use newsmagazines to find photographs to copy from. It's not that unusual for her to produce a dozen in a sitting. Her level of humor is not that sophisticated, but then again, she is only 11 years old. Has she drawn GWB to look like a devil? She certainly has doodled little horns and spiky ears (etc.) on photographs of him, and made cartoon baloons come from his mouth to say all kinds of stupid things. Has she depicted him with his head on a pike? I don't know, but it wouldn't be impossible -- she has been relatively prolific in these drawings. So much depends upon context and the sort of details that don't make it into news coverage. I don't think the Secret Service aspect of it is all that significant, but maybe that's because I live near DC, where sooper-seekrit Feds are a dime a dozen. Heck, Ivan Stang (founder of the Church of the Subgenius) earned himself a visit from the Secret Service, based on the number of strange mailing lists where his name appeared from his work writing High_Weirdness_by_Mail. He handled it appropriately, inviting them in for coffee and being sure to ordain them before they left. What is awry is the epidemic of wild overreactions by school officials (where this incident started) to anything that vaguely seems like violence. Just as school violence rates have been in such a shocking rate of decline, officials have responded to the receding threat by blowing all sorts of things out of proportion. My cow-orker had to engage in legal action to get his second-grader readmitted to school, after he was suspended (with mumblings about explusion) for casually gesturing with a pair of blunt scissors as if they were a gun. That's something with a real, negative impact on a child. That visit from the Secret Service will be an entertaining story and a badge of honor for the child. -- Why *is* everyone so worried about violins in schools? |
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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
In ,
Richard wrote: *Having lived as an expatriot in a state controlled by a totalitarian regime, I *submit that the real fear, the real danger, is self-censorship. In late-1997, I would agree, self-censorship due to fear of government repercussions is bad. *If the OP's daughter's behavior is changed in any way that decreases the free *and open expression of her beliefs and ideas, she has been censored. She has Well, you mean she has censored herself. BIG difference. *been censored even if the Secret Service never know that she even exists, let *alone show up at her front door to question her. Not by the government. By her own fears, which may or may not (and I think not, but obviously reasonable people can disagree) be well-grounded. h. -- hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large |
#10
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Secret Service questions 15 year old about political cartoons
In nv8kc.7542$kp.207409@attbi_s52,
Byron Canfield wrote: *"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message * * Well, I can certainly understand being *worried*, given what was reported. * That being said, frankly, it seems to me that the story doesn't really * tell us all of the facts. The policeman they quote said that he felt based * on the available evidence, the school was correct to call the authorities. * I hope that means there was something going on other than some * normal-seeming kid drawing a political cartoon. I mean, some pattern, or * other weirdness, that was concerning. * *That's an assumption on your part with no basis in fact. There might have What's an assumption on my part? That "it seems" to me that the story doesn't tell the facts? That "I hope" there was something else going on? Why can't I state an opinion these days without someone wildly misinterpreting it and making claims about what I said that are patently untrue? Am I *that* unclear in my prose? This is distressing. *been other extenuating circumstances, but you cannot assume there were on *the basis that you think there must have been. None were stated. That sounds And I did not say there definitely were. I said I HOPE, not I KNOW FOR SURE! * Also, being questioned by the Secret Service is not the end of the world. * It's just an interview by a government official. If you have nothing to * hide, it really should NOT be a problem at all. * *"If you have nothing to hide" being the historically key phrase to the loss *of all freedoms. Well, it wasn't a problem for me. * I guess what I'm saying is I don't think the Secret Service in general is * going to start going around harassing political cartoon drawing children, * *Well, you've been proven wrong before you even made the statement. OH, ok. My opinions are wrong. Well, so are yours. Neener neener neener. -h. -- hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large |
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