upset at nanny -- vent

"Mom2Aries" wrote in message news:HeSWb.17094$uV3.36334@attbi_s51...

At my college, most of the people are just out of highschool, but then
again, so am I. Only difference is, tehre biggest problem is if Johnny will
call them again... mine is whether or not I'm spending enough time with my
son and enough time on school work, and will I have money for diapers this
week? I'm 18, and get told I could just put it off until he's older, and
even got chastized for choosing to better myself (like you I did bad in
highschool, only I barely passed with a 2.0... but I have a 3.4 in college)
told I was a bad mother for leaving him to go to school. I didn't leave him
until he was a little over 6 months old, and was nver gone for him for
longer than 4 hours at a time, and got to play with him for an hour or 4
between classes.


Cadie,

I've not been in your situation and I don't envy you, school is hard
enough without having a child in the mix. But just want to say hats
off to you! Stick with it. Don't let anyone tell you you're wrong for
doing it. You ARE bettering yourself and as a result doing something
for your child and he will be the better for it. I'm so impressed by
people such as yourself, it takes a lot of courage and energy to do
what you're doing. In the long run, it'll pay off - not just in income
but in personal satisfaction, and your child will be happier if you're
happy with your life too.

FWIW a very dear friend of mine had 2 kids by 22, was divorced, no
help from the father but family was nearby and decided to go to
university (in Australia where older students were very much not the
norm). She eventually finished her first degree and worked for 10
years, then decided to do a PhD in her late 30s. She is absolutely
amazing. It *was* very hard for her, and people often told her not to
bother, but she stuck it out and is doing very well. Her sons are
incredibly proud of her and she is one of the most devoted mothers I
know...and she just became a grandmother .

btw - if medical school is your goal, you don't *need* to become an RN
first. Not that it's not a good idea if you *want* to be an RN and
that will provide you with some income for awhile. But you can also
consider working your degree towards pre-medical requirements and
applying to medical school sooner. Being an RN isn't really a step
towards becoming an MD, it IS an end in itself and very worthwhile
one, but you needn't do one to do the other, esp if you know NOW.

Good luck. I love to hear of people like you.

"iphigenia" wrote in message ...
Michelle Spina wrote:

Sounds like you had lousy parents. Do you feel that they would have
been good parents if one of them had been home? That it was their work
that made your childhood less than what you wished for? In all other
ways, they were really great parents, and it really was that they
weren't home for those 8 hours, M-F, that was the crucial time you
needed?

First, no, I do not think I had terrible parents. I don't think I had
perfect parents by any means, but a lot of what went wrong can be attributed
to a lot of factors.

However, yes, I think that having two parents that were both working a lot
had a lot to do with why I felt detached from them. My grandmother was a
SAHM and my mother wanted to be one as well, but financial circumstances and
my father's negative attitude toward the idea of SAH parents made it so that
it never worked out. And I was, in some respects, an easy child, in the
sense of being easy to ignore - I didn't talk to people when I had problems
(and I had a lot of problems). When your career is stressful and you're
working 50 hours weeks and spending an hour and a half or so commuting, it's
probably easier to assume that if your child isn't telling you about her
problems and is doing well academically, that she doesn't *have* problems.

And yes, I think that if my mom had been home with me, interacting with me
more, that she might have realized that the reason I was a quiet child who
kept to myself was that I was friendless and suicidally depressed (yes, at
age 10). It's hard to tell what's normal behavior for someone when you spend
hardly any time with them.

Thinking about my own child feeling the way I did without me even having a
clue - well, I'm getting extremely upset, so I'm going to stop now.

OMG! I am so, so sorry! I really didn't mean to make you so upset - I
feel terrible.

I also can see how your situation could potentially happen.
Thankfully, I feel like my priorities are straight. Arguably, I should
be putting in a lot more time at work than I do. But, I don't. And I
won't. And I made that clear before I started this job. I guess I
should feel very lucky that I'm in a specialty where there aren't many
people to fill the job, so they need me!

I will also keep you in mind - if I feel like the kids are happily
cruising along, I will try to remember your story and be sure that I'm
not taking anything for granted...

m.

Bruce and Jeanne wrote in message ...
Too true. I'm currently a SAHM - decided to stay at home after DS was
born and I didn't have a job. But I worked full-time when DD was an
infant. Both times, I and DH were and are the parents. No one else
"raised" our children, although we did have support from our daycare
provider with DD.

I'm finding that I always have a lot of admiration for the *other* side.
I mean when I worked, I thought SAHMs were incredible - lots of energy
and organization. But now that I'm a SAHM, I think working moms have it
rough and *they* are something akin to superwomen.

At times, I wish I am working - to be honest, it's not as draining (I
get coffee breaks). OTOH, the house is slightly cleaner, I get to play
a lot with my son, and we find the household is doing better with me
staying at home. About the only one who is kind of disgruntled is DD -
she wants to be in after-school care.

I hear about how working moms "sneer" at SAHMs, but I haven't met one
yet.

I agree - the only sneering I've ever seen is in Usenet, and it's
always the other way around (SAHM's toward WOHM's). In real life,
however, none of my SAHM friends are like that in the least. And I've
also seen that no-one is 100% happy, as you said! I think they have it
great, they think I have it great.

The grass is always greener, I guess...

m.

"Circe" wrote in message
news:nJNWb.39371$QJ3.7028@fed1read04...


Incidentally, my brown husband of Mexican descent is often mistaken for
being either Greek or Hindi by people who meet him.

My grandfather (who was of German and possibly some French descent) was very
dark-skinned, with black hair and brown eyes. He lived in a little town in
Wisconsin that was mostly Norwegian, so he stuck out like a sore thumb,
particularly at the hospital in his white coats or surgery gowns. (One of his
elderly patients, who didn't much like him, called him "that old black devil.")
He used to have trouble getting hotel rooms on the way down to Florida because
people thought he was Jewish. Finally he got smart and made his wife
(red-headed and very fair) go in to book the rooms or confirm the reservations
he had made by mail.

And once when he'd been deer hunting up in Canada, a bunch of slightly drunk
tourists in a bar mistook him for an Indian guide, and asked him to sign their
napkins because they'd "never met a real Indian before," or something like
that. He just smiled and signed them all with his real name, M.D.

--Helen

Chookie wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Elizabeth Reid) wrote:

Is there also any kind of difference between whether the
getting-things-done group and the other group about whether
time spent with kids should be spent on 'kid' activities or
spent doing work together and making it fun?

[...] I don't know if it's a greater willingness to 'ignore'
the kids in a benign way, or a greater ability to involve
them in adult household activities, or maybe those activities
are intrinsically more involving if they're obviously
part of the pattern of life rather than just 'tasks', or
what.

I think you've hit it. I would guess that the more "together" families
approach life like permaculturists, seeking multiple yields from each
activity. An example from my own life would be that doing the washing
includes DS helping with sorting, pushing the buttons on the machine and
playing with the pegs. The yields are in our relationships, DS's learning of
life skills (washing and cooperation), DS's being out of mischief, and our
washing getting done. The alternative would be to set DS up with some
activity while I get the washing done, which would (or *might*!) keep him out
of mischief, but wouldn't build relationships or skills... and doing the
washing on my own is a lot less fun without DS to talk to.

See, I would love to do this, I just can't quite figure it
out how to get it to happen. My son doesn't want to help sort
laundry, or do any other activity with it which is remotely
like the actual task. He wants certain specific activities;
primarily, he wants to be read to. He *lives* to be read to.
Now, I love reading to him, and it's a nice wholesome thing
which hopefully will leave him hooked on books forever, and
we have a great time, but it's not an activity which meshes
well with getting anything done. Plus, a lot of the more
urgent household tasks which I'm feeling like I'm neglecting
are harder to involve a young toddler in, like making supper
or washing dishes.

The image that Dawn paints of the calm loving families with
welcoming homes sounds SO wonderful to me. Living in the
frazzled-and-harried camp sucks rocks. I just don't know
how I could get there without being willing to listen to a
lot of heartbroken wailing from my toddler, and something
tells me that Dawn's Type 1 families aren't getting there
via screaming. There's something here I'm missing.

Beth

Elizabeth Reid wrote:


See, I would love to do this, I just can't quite figure it
out how to get it to happen. s
Now, I love reading to him, and it's a nice wholesome thing
which hopefully will leave him hooked on books forever, and
we have a great time, but it's not an activity which meshes
well with getting anything done.

However, nor is it one that you MUST indulge your son in at any moment
he asks. I don't think cold-turkey is the way to go, but having him
monopolising your entire household doesn't seem appropriate to me, any
more than letting him wail for an hour while you do laundry.

Plus, a lot of the more
urgent household tasks which I'm feeling like I'm neglecting
are harder to involve a young toddler in, like making supper
or washing dishes.

Really? I give DS a handful of raisins in a big bowl, a spoon and some
measuring cups. Or a pail with a little water at the bottom and some
smaller containers on a huge towel, or a bit of sudsy water and a wire
whisk.


The image that Dawn paints of the calm loving families with
welcoming homes sounds SO wonderful to me. Living in the
frazzled-and-harried camp sucks rocks. I just don't know
how I could get there without being willing to listen to a
lot of heartbroken wailing from my toddler, and something
tells me that Dawn's Type 1 families aren't getting there
via screaming. There's something here I'm missing.

IMO, it's precedant. What you're describing is what I see mostly in
Type 2.....child rules for X amount of time, then all hell breaks loose
when for whatever reason that just can't be the case. child has
learned, imo, that the world owes him/her entertainment. Child has
limited ability to self-entertain, nor to be entertained by as was said
"the pattern of living" in any way. And I think the "dependance" of a
lot of parents on some purchased object or "sanctioned" activity to
entertain their kids means the children never really learn how much fun
a stick can be, or an inch of water and the freedom to get a little
soggy. (btw, water isn't messy....lino and a towel, and a little caution
for slips (grippy socks) )

You may have to listen to SOME heartbroken wailing, but you can also
start to think "outside the books" ;-) and include your child. I put
DS into his highchair if I am cooking and he wants to be amused. He
gets a blob of something interesting or a lump of playdoh, or some
crackers and dip. I work quickly and plan ahead as much as I can so
that if I HAVE to leave off to attend to DS or amuse him, dinner or the
cookies aren't ruined.

I have to go now, and attend to DS ;-) but I will be back - this is
very interesting stuff (to me anyhow)

DAwn

Michelle Spina wrote:

Bruce and Jeanne wrote in message
...
Too true. I'm currently a SAHM - decided to stay at home after DS was
born and I didn't have a job. But I worked full-time when DD was an
infant. Both times, I and DH were and are the parents. No one else
"raised" our children, although we did have support from our daycare
provider with DD.

I'm finding that I always have a lot of admiration for the *other* side.
I mean when I worked, I thought SAHMs were incredible - lots of energy
and organization. But now that I'm a SAHM, I think working moms have it
rough and *they* are something akin to superwomen.

At times, I wish I am working - to be honest, it's not as draining (I
get coffee breaks). OTOH, the house is slightly cleaner, I get to play
a lot with my son, and we find the household is doing better with me
staying at home. About the only one who is kind of disgruntled is DD -
she wants to be in after-school care.

I hear about how working moms "sneer" at SAHMs, but I haven't met one
yet.

I agree - the only sneering I've ever seen is in Usenet, and it's
always the other way around (SAHM's toward WOHM's). In real life,
however, none of my SAHM friends are like that in the least. And I've
also seen that no-one is 100% happy, as you said! I think they have it
great, they think I have it great.

The grass is always greener, I guess...

m.

You're lucky to have supportive friends. I stopped going to a mom's
support group because some of the SAHMs seem way too defensive about
staying at home. When I re-joined the group, I made the mistake of
saying "I sometimes work, but I decided to stop when my son was born..."
and a woman chimed in immediately "All mothers work..." I apologized
and clarified worked outside the home. Whereupon another woman said
"well you're doing the right thing now. After all, why bother having
kids, if..." Well you get the picture. I decided it wasn't a very
supportive moms' support group.


Jeanne

Dawn Lawson wrote in message news:NY9Xb.490487$ts4.223593@pd7tw3no...
Elizabeth Reid wrote:


See, I would love to do this, I just can't quite figure it
out how to get it to happen. s
Now, I love reading to him, and it's a nice wholesome thing
which hopefully will leave him hooked on books forever, and
we have a great time, but it's not an activity which meshes
well with getting anything done.

However, nor is it one that you MUST indulge your son in at any moment
he asks. I don't think cold-turkey is the way to go, but having him
monopolising your entire household doesn't seem appropriate to me, any
more than letting him wail for an hour while you do laundry.

No, it doesn't to me either, which is why the subject is on my
mind. I'm finding it hard to get to that in-between point. My
son's not a kid who whines, which I could ignore, he's more
the kind that goes from 0 to red-faced overwrought screaming
in about a second and a half, and once he's in that state
he can cry for a really long time. I feel awful just letting
him scream and follow me around going, "Up, up, up, Mama,
up, up Mama!" But I recognize that this completely has the
potential to get ugly down the road. I feel exactly the
way I did when I was trying to use the No Cry Sleep Solution
to help him to sleep. I don't know if he's the one for whom
gentle transitions don't work well or if I am.

IMO, it's precedant. What you're describing is what I see mostly in
Type 2.....child rules for X amount of time, then all hell breaks loose
when for whatever reason that just can't be the case. child has
learned, imo, that the world owes him/her entertainment. Child has
limited ability to self-entertain, nor to be entertained by as was said
"the pattern of living" in any way. And I think the "dependance" of a
lot of parents on some purchased object or "sanctioned" activity to
entertain their kids means the children never really learn how much fun
a stick can be, or an inch of water and the freedom to get a little
soggy. (btw, water isn't messy....lino and a towel, and a little caution
for slips (grippy socks) )

I guess the thing that I'm finding tricky is managing the
transition from infancy (when it's appropriate to cater to
the baby's every whim) and childhood when it's not. Maybe
that's part of it for the Type 1 families - if whatever you're
doing instead of child care is something you're really
committed to, it counteracts the pull of caring for the
infant so that as the baby gets older the transition is
more seamless. I don't really care about cooking dinner,
not in a spiritual way anyway, so it's all too easy to
put it off, especially when screaming is involved. :-)

Beth

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:55:25 GMT, Dawn Lawson
wrote:
Really? I give DS a handful of raisins in a big bowl, a spoon and some
measuring cups. Or a pail with a little water at the bottom and some
smaller containers on a huge towel, or a bit of sudsy water and a wire
whisk.

Some babies will not cooperate with that. My first two daughters would
have sat for hours, coloring or playing with clay or water or
*anything*. My third child doesn't last more than a minute or two
doing anything. Well, she will play the pots and pans for a few
minutes "cooking" her toys, and will play a few minutes pouring a cup
of water on the towel covered floor, but this has only started
recently and it's the very longest she's ever been willing to not be
held by me.

children never really learn how much fun
a stick can be,

LOL From the time my youngest daughter started walking, everytime she
found a stick she toddled to the tree and poked the tree with it.

You may have to listen to SOME heartbroken wailing, but you can also
start to think "outside the books" ;-) and include your child. I put
DS into his highchair if I am cooking and he wants to be amused. He
gets a blob of something interesting or a lump of playdoh, or some
crackers and dip. I work quickly and plan ahead as much as I can so
that if I HAVE to leave off to attend to DS or amuse him, dinner or the
cookies aren't ruined.

Some babies just aren't willing to be occupied in that way. Even with
food in the high chair (or anywhere else).
I never believed there were babies who were really that "difficult"
until I had my third child. I think the ability to do some things are
dependent on the baby's personality. There is no way I can do any more
than I already do unless my daughter magically grows out of it(unless
I let her scream, hanging onto my leg and clawing at my shirt).
Marie

Marie wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:55:25 GMT, Dawn Lawson
wrote:

Really? I give DS a handful of raisins in a big bowl, a spoon and some
measuring cups. Or a pail with a little water at the bottom and some
smaller containers on a huge towel, or a bit of sudsy water and a wire
whisk.


Some babies will not cooperate with that.

All I can say is that it wasn't always this way for me, nor are those
the only options.

Dawn