should mum be allowed to deny dad contact ?

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:33:59 +1300, "ChrisScaife"
wrote:

I too tried to get my wife to come to marriage guidance,
but I was the enemy.
The harder I tried, whatever it was, the more she would resist.
Eventually I stopped loving her and looked forward to the
day the decree absolute would come through.

Sadly our little boy was the real casualty.

Yes, he was. It distresses me whenever I hear of this kind of
situation. Unfortunately, the law never seems to solve anything
in such cases. I wish there was more that could be offered
when a dad like you wants contact, but cannot have it because
of actions on the ex-wive's part and I know that it is all too
common here in the US too.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

"Kathy Cole" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 04:45:40 GMT, "Byron Canfield"
wrote:
What he was claiming was that there was spiteful actions not toward the
kids, but toward the father.

It's all in how you orient your outlook. You can certainly manage a
post-divorce situation in which you share access to the kids without
much contact with the former partner; what is largely parallel
parenting, rather than co-parenting. If that's the case, there's not
much direct, spiteful action you have an opportunity to perform, that
isn't also likely to get you into legal trouble; most spiteful actions
need to be channeled through the kids to get a dig in at the other
parent.

But I don't see myself as owing my ex much. I owe *our son* an awful
lot, starting with respecting and supporting the role of his father,
stepmother and extended family in his life, and encouraging strong
relationships with them. That viewpoint requires me to keep our son out
of our disagreements, so that when his dad really ****es me off, it's
proven relatively easy for me to keep him away from it.

So, from my perspective, absent any direct, spiteful crap like trying to
get an ex fired, calling the new girlfriend and telling her my opinion
of him and his prior behavior, causing him financial trouble by falsely
reporting his car stolen so the police will hassle him, or other
extremely direct and clearly ex-focussed actions, any spiteful stuff
would have to use the kid, which is harmful to the kid and thus
completely unacceptable.

A parent who correctly concludes that the real goal in digging at the
kid is to dig at the other parent might label the activity accordingly,
and that may have been the case with the prior poster.

This has gotten way off track. The original claim was that the divorced wife
was committing spiteful actions against the former husband -- it made no
mention of doing things to the kids. And my question was what was the
motivation for the spiteful actions against the husband -- a question which
went not just unanswered, but was pointedly evaded at every turn.


--
"There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary numbers and those who don't."
-----------------------------
Byron "Barn" Canfield

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:26:53 GMT, "Byron Canfield"
wrote:

This has gotten way off track. The original claim was that the
divorced wife was committing spiteful actions against the former
husband -- it made no mention of doing things to the kids.

The first followup from the original poster included mom doing things to
kids to get back at dad.

And my question was what was the motivation for the spiteful actions
against the husband -- a question which went not just unanswered,
but was pointedly evaded at every turn.

Pointedly evaded is an exaggeration, I believe, having just read back
through this thread. I saw Chris identify untreated depression as a
root cause of the breakup of his marriage, which is going to be the only
relationship about which he's fully qualified to comment.

I agree with what I think is your general point that it's hard to
envision a circumstance where the breakup of a relationship is
exclusively and completely the fault of one party. I would argue that
untreated mental illness is a very understandable trigger for the
spiraling decline and eventual death of a marriage, not to mention a
significant contributor toward irrational behavior.

Are you specifically looking for him to say 'yes, I agree that it's
impossible to pin the blame on only one half of a couple'? He certainly
does not give off the same vibe, to me at least, as the other posters
from outside misc.kids.

And I can certainly imagine a situation like what was in the original
post,

: For instance, I know of a case where years later, a mother admits to
having "fought dirty" to preclude her ex from contact out of pure
: spite.

really occurring, where 'pure spite' was motivated by something largely
in the head of the spiteful party.

Basically, as I said when first responding to you, I do not believe that
description to be impossible or unfathomable, and I find it surprising
that you seem to do so.

"Kathy Cole" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:26:53 GMT, "Byron Canfield"
wrote:

This has gotten way off track. The original claim was that the
divorced wife was committing spiteful actions against the former
husband -- it made no mention of doing things to the kids.

The first followup from the original poster included mom doing things to
kids to get back at dad.

And my question was what was the motivation for the spiteful actions
against the husband -- a question which went not just unanswered,
but was pointedly evaded at every turn.

Pointedly evaded is an exaggeration, I believe, having just read back
through this thread. I saw Chris identify untreated depression as a
root cause of the breakup of his marriage, which is going to be the only
relationship about which he's fully qualified to comment.

I agree with what I think is your general point that it's hard to
envision a circumstance where the breakup of a relationship is
exclusively and completely the fault of one party. I would argue that
untreated mental illness is a very understandable trigger for the
spiraling decline and eventual death of a marriage, not to mention a
significant contributor toward irrational behavior.

Are you specifically looking for him to say 'yes, I agree that it's
impossible to pin the blame on only one half of a couple'? He certainly
does not give off the same vibe, to me at least, as the other posters
from outside misc.kids.

And I can certainly imagine a situation like what was in the original
post,

: For instance, I know of a case where years later, a mother admits to
having "fought dirty" to preclude her ex from contact out of pure
: spite.

really occurring, where 'pure spite' was motivated by something largely
in the head of the spiteful party.

Largely? That indicates part of it was not just in the head of the spiteful
party. And it is THAT part about which I was asking, to which I never
received an answer.

Basically, as I said when first responding to you, I do not believe that
description to be impossible or unfathomable, and I find it surprising
that you seem to do so.

That's correct -- I cannot envision a circumstance where at least, through
non-acting, or acts of omission (even if not acts of commission), one of the
two would have absolutely no culpubility for the dissolution.

My relationship almost dissolved due to my inattention following the birth
of my daughter, eleven years ago: I failed to notice, until almost too late,
the symptoms of post-partum depression in my mate. Fortunately, I did get a
clue, just in time to educate myself on the issue and get some help.
Granted, this is not something normally in the frame of reference of the
male partners -- most men DON'T have a clue about post-partum depression
(and, for that matter, a lot of other issues concerning women -- in general,
most men ARE too self-absorbed, due, in part, to cultural influences, I
think), but with the proper preparation BEFORE birth (best even before
deciding to have children), one can be prepared.

I didn't take the time, up front, to educate myself about such things, and
am thankful that I had the opportunity to do so before it was too late.


--
"There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary numbers and those who don't."
-----------------------------
Byron "Barn" Canfield