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3-year old sibling rivalry



 
 
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  #12  
Old November 18th 03, 01:17 AM
Ericka Kammerer
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Default 3-year old sibling rivalry

Dave wrote:

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...


1) Is Erika getting attention (even if it's negative
attention) for hitting the baby?


Yes, I suppose she does get some attention. I tried my luck at just picking
up the baby and leaving the room, telling Erika that "Daddy doesn't want to
play with girls that hit" which she definitely did not like, to the point of
begging "Daddy stay. I won't hit anymore"... she KNOWS it's wrong. Yet she
does it anyway. She definitely doesn't get MUCH attention at this point;
after so much repetition one would think the pain of punishment outweighs
whatever crumb of pleasure she receives by way of attention.



I don't think she's getting any pleasure at all from
hitting Lindsay. It may be even a little scary and conflicting
for her, which is another reason to make sure that there's
no opportunity for it to happen. I probably wouldn't say
*anything* to Erika. She knows it's wrong. I'd just pick
up the baby and leave, cooing over the baby and lavishing
her with concern and attention without a single backwards
glance at Erika.


I think that's a good point you make... we keep giving Erika the benefit of
the doubt, assuming she'll grow out of this hitting phase and not wanting to
make her feel too bad... also it seems the more of an issue we make of it
the more she does it for the attention. Punishing her as I said seems to
only make the problem worse. Maybe it's time to physically restrain her.
It's tough though to keep her away from the baby at all times, and it makes
us even more worried that Erika will start to think it's some sort of game
and will try even harder.



It is very difficult to keep her away from the baby--
I certainly understand that! Hopefully you won't have to
do it for long. You can do things like:

1) Keep the baby in arms.
2) Put the baby down to play in a playpen/portacrib/etc. that
Erika can't get into (at least not without giving you time
to intercept).
3) Don't allow Erika into the room where the baby is
playing if you can't provide any other security.

When Erika complains about the restrictions, just explain
that you absolutely have to keep Lindsay safe, and this is
the only way you know how, so you're very sorry Erika
can't do X right now--maybe later when you know that
Lindsay won't get hurt. You have to couple this with
still finding time for Erika to have good one-on-one
time with you (i.e., the baby can't be freezing her
out of her parents' lives, even though it will certainly
have an impact on your availability). After a little
while, you also have to start allowing some opportunities
for success. Give Erika some very brief, very highly
supervised opportunities to interact nicely with Lindsay.
If she does well, praise the heck out of her. You *MUST*
make sure she is successful, and you must keep it short
(don't fall into the trap of thinking that she's done
well for five minutes, maybe she's turned over a new leaf,
maybe we'll go a bit longer). Then, very gradually, build
on your successes. Every day you go without her going
after the baby is a step towards success. When she hasn't
hit the baby in a few weeks, the problem will likely be
gone--but if there's a single time she manages to get
a hit/bite/kick/whatever in there, you're back to square
one.


We need to teach Erika (somehow, some way) a constructive, or at least
non-destructive, way to vent her frustrations. Funny thing is, I think she
LIKES Lindsay. Last night at the swimming pool she asked me if perhaps next
time we come we could bring Lindsay. And she will sometimes spontaneously
bring a favorite toy over and let Lindsay play with it without being asked.



Sure, she probably *does* like Lindsay very much. This
isn't about liking or disliking Lindsay. In all likelihood, if
there's anyone she has problems with, it's you or her mother--
but she knows better than to take it out on you directly ;-)
And yes, you do need to teach her how to deal with her
frustrations more constructively. Give her specific suggestions
and role play them--frequently. Ask her to collaborate with
you in coming up with alternatives. That often helps.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #13  
Old November 18th 03, 02:03 AM
toto
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Default 3-year old sibling rivalry

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:24:53 +0200, LisaBell
wrote:

Acknowledge that she feels angry about the
baby and maybe even wishes the baby to go away


Good book if you can find it - Nobody Asked Me if I
Wanted a Baby Sister by Martha Alexander.

The older brother Oliver tries to give the baby away
to several people in the neighborhood.

There is a sequel called: I'll Be the Horse If You'll
Play With Me that I haven't read, but it might be good
as well.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #14  
Old November 18th 03, 02:04 AM
Wendy
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Default 3-year old sibling rivalry

David Spear wrote:
When the baby came home, though, things did not, and
have not, gone smoothly at all... Erika hits Lindsay (the baby) at any
opportunity. Or kicks. Or bites. At first we thought that it was a normal
jealous reaction to a new baby, and we were prepared to wait it out.


Two suggestions. With our first one we convinced her that we were having
the baby with the express purpose of adoring her. It's hard to hate
someone who absolute adores you. Talk up how much the baby loves her big
sister. Convince the big sister that the baby is there to be her
audience/lady-in-waiting.

The next suggestion is to point out to Erika that you gave HER exactly the
same treatment when Erika was a baby. In fact, when cuddling Lindsey you
might point out that it reminds you of how much you loved cuddling Erika
at that age. Then go right into the schtick about how wonderful it is
that she's such a big girl who can do such delightful things now like
(list them out: ride a trike, color with markers, go to the potty,
whatever.) The goal here is to show that your parenting of Lindsey is no
different than your parenting of Erika except that the girls need
different things from you at the moment (and will continue to have
different needs for some time.)

We have tried time outs and other non-violent
punishments such as keeping her from going to the park, to swimming, etc. to
no avail... she just takes whatever we dish out with no change in behaviour
whatsoever.


I've got a sticky situation with my second/third child like this. I'm on
the verge of seeking family counseling over a dynamic that we just can't
seem to shake. The 10 year old can't walk within arm's length of the
four year old without nudging him in some way - it's like his hands
compulsively reach out to tweak his brother. The little one yelps, I yell
at the big one to get away from his brother and the older brother feels
persecuted because I'm always yelling at him. We've sat down and talked
about this over and over again - the theme being that nudging his brother
has NOT worked out well for him - he doesn't get anything useful out of
it, just misery and more misery so why do it?

OTOH, I can't seem to stay out of it and let them nudge each other. (I've
seen the little one walk by and outright PUNCH his brother... now wherever
did he get THAT idea?) The little one is four now and the odds are
evening up a bit from when they were seven and one. I think the answer
might be in ME butting out since I can't seem to stop either of them.

I keep thinking there are some behavioral payoffs in their fighting that I
just can't spot. It makes no sense to me for the 10 year old to misbehave
40 times a day. He has also taken to blatent lying and seems to wallow
happily in his misery about being mistrusted as well as his feelings of
being persecuted by my constant pressure on him to not hit his brother.

I don't know how to escape this dynamic, so maybe I'm telling you my
advice is worthless. Or maybe I'm telling you that you should just seek
outside help before they get much older!

Wendy, thinking about how LONG this week-end has been!
  #15  
Old November 18th 03, 02:15 AM
toto
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Default 3-year old sibling rivalry

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:30:39 GMT, "David Spear"
wrote:

My wife and I had our second child, a girl, in May this past spring. We
have another daughter almost exactly 3 years older than the baby. Erika
(the older one) was all excited about the coming of the baby, we got books
out of the library about pregnancy, changes that would occur when the new
baby came home, etc. When the baby came home, though, things did not, and
have not, gone smoothly at all... Erika hits Lindsay (the baby) at any
opportunity. Or kicks. Or bites. At first we thought that it was a normal
jealous reaction to a new baby, and we were prepared to wait it out. We
made sure to give Erika TONS of attention, even buying her a few special
toys to offset all the baby gifts from our friends and relatives. In fact I
daresay she has probably gotten at least as much attention over the past six
months as the baby has!

However, the behavior has not changed. Erika will come into a room, see
Lindsay doing something, and will immediately either take away whatever toy
Lindsay is playing with (or all of her toys) or, if she is not playing with
a toy, will go over and SMACK her or push her over or do some other mean
thing until Lindsay cries. We have tried time outs and other non-violent
punishments such as keeping her from going to the park, to swimming, etc. to
no avail... she just takes whatever we dish out with no change in behaviour
whatsoever. If I see her about to hit Lindsay and say "Don't do that or you
can't go to Grandma's tomorrow" she will look me in the eye and continue to
hit Lindsay anyway. We do not dare leave the two of them together
unattended for fear the baby will be hurt.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it normal? How long will it go on?
As an aside, Erika is GREAT with other babies, plays with them, shares with
them without being asked, is very gentle, it's just her baby sister she has
it out for. When i'ts one-on-one with Mom or Dad (no baby) Erika is sweet
as can be.

Any replies greatly appreciated.

Do watch her closely and do not leave her alone with the baby.

Prevent her from hitting her sister by being close by and stopping
her physically from doing so. Say *we don't hit people.*
Do shadow her. Stay right with her and stop the hitting by holding
her hands and not letting her do it. The same goes for the biting.
etc. If you must hold her and keep her still, do so. Don't allow
her to get away with hurting her sister. But do stay calm when
you are holding her. She can scream, but *you* have to stay
calm and let her know she can stop being held as long as she
doesn't hurt the baby (or you).

Gently pull her away and tell her that what she did isn't okay. You
may need to take her away from her sister for a few minutes to cool
down. Make sure she had toys of her own she doesn't have to share.
She can keep these in her room.

Pretend games, such as playing house, help teach preschoolers to work
cooperatively. Because these games emphasize role-playing, they also
teach your preschooler to express his feelings with words. If she gets
angry during the game, prompt her to talk about her feelings by
asking, "You're the mommy in this house. What does a mommy say
when she feels angry?" If she's had a good example to follow, she'll
handle it just like his own mommy does: by saying she's angry and
explaining why.

Play cooperative games with the two children. Give and take is
a good one for this age as is peekaboo. Your older child can
make her sister smile if she plays peekaboo with her.

Emphasize that your older child is the *big girl* who can help you
with lots of things and who can go places the baby can't go. Show
her that she has the advantage. She can do so much more.
Involve her in helping with the baby. Have her get the diaper when
you are going to change the baby.

When she does play with the baby without hitting, make sure you
acknowledge that. *I see that you took turns with your sister just
then. I like that.*

Be consistent.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #16  
Old November 18th 03, 03:11 AM
toto
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Default 3-year old sibling rivalry

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:27:11 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:


"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...


1) Is Erika getting attention (even if it's negative
attention) for hitting the baby?

Yes, I suppose she does get some attention. I tried my luck at just picking
up the baby and leaving the room, telling Erika that "Daddy doesn't want to
play with girls that hit" which she definitely did not like, to the point of
begging "Daddy stay. I won't hit anymore"... she KNOWS it's wrong. Yet she
does it anyway. She definitely doesn't get MUCH attention at this point;
after so much repetition one would think the pain of punishment outweighs
whatever crumb of pleasure she receives by way of attention.

The problem is that *you* cannot judge the attention she is receiving
from her pov.

Punishment almost never works anyway. It simply teaches children
to be sneaky (unless it is harsh enough to squash their spirit
entirely and even then for some kids, that makes them more
rebellious).

Follow through with leaving the room. This will get through. And
do this *every time she hits or bites.* Don't give in to her pleading
with you to stay, but do give her another chance after a short time
out of the room with baby. And do play with the baby when you
are out of the room with her.

2) I think you absolutely have to prevent her from
hitting the baby. This isn't something you can
allow to happen and then try to address it with
punishment after it happens. You must do whatever
it takes to make sure she doesn't have the chance
to hurt the baby--not just because you don't want
the baby hurt, but because hitting the baby is
becoming a *habit* and it could more easily
escalate. Erika needs to see that you just *will*
not allow her to harm the baby. Period. No matter
what she does or how hard she tries, the baby will
be protected, just as you would protect Erika from
anyone who would harm her.

I think that's a good point you make... we keep giving Erika the benefit of
the doubt, assuming she'll grow out of this hitting phase and not wanting to
make her feel too bad... also it seems the more of an issue we make of it
the more she does it for the attention. Punishing her as I said seems to
only make the problem worse. Maybe it's time to physically restrain her.
It's tough though to keep her away from the baby at all times, and it makes
us even more worried that Erika will start to think it's some sort of game
and will try even harder.

Hadn't really thought about what poor Lindsay thinks of all the whacks on
the head she gets... she is a very big strong baby, could sit up at 5 months
and already weighs more at 6 months than Erika did at a year so we are not
too worried about physical harm... we tend to sit her in the middle of the
livingroom rug to play so worst case scenario she gets toppled over onto the
carpet.

We need to teach Erika (somehow, some way) a constructive, or at least
non-destructive, way to vent her frustrations.


Teach her to use words. You may want to read Adele Faber and
Elaine Mazlish's book Siblings without Rivalry. Another good one
by the same authors is How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen
So Kids Will Talk.

Funny thing is, I think she
LIKES Lindsay. Last night at the swimming pool she asked me if perhaps next
time we come we could bring Lindsay. And she will sometimes spontaneously
bring a favorite toy over and let Lindsay play with it without being asked.

When she does this, this is the time to give her positive attention.

thanks for your insight.

Dave


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #17  
Old November 18th 03, 04:00 AM
Jenrose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 3-year old sibling rivalry


"David Spear" wrote in message
news:3B7ub.15996$1K.1604@edtnps84...
My wife and I had our second child, a girl, in May this past spring. We
have another daughter almost exactly 3 years older than the baby. Erika
(the older one) was all excited about the coming of the baby, we got books
out of the library about pregnancy, changes that would occur when the new
baby came home, etc. When the baby came home, though, things did not, and
have not, gone smoothly at all... Erika hits Lindsay (the baby) at any
opportunity. Or kicks. Or bites. At first we thought that it was a

normal
jealous reaction to a new baby, and we were prepared to wait it out. We
made sure to give Erika TONS of attention, even buying her a few special
toys to offset all the baby gifts from our friends and relatives. In fact

I
daresay she has probably gotten at least as much attention over the past

six
months as the baby has!

However, the behavior has not changed. Erika will come into a room, see
Lindsay doing something, and will immediately either take away whatever

toy
Lindsay is playing with (or all of her toys) or, if she is not playing

with
a toy, will go over and SMACK her or push her over or do some other mean
thing until Lindsay cries. We have tried time outs and other non-violent
punishments such as keeping her from going to the park, to swimming, etc.

to
no avail... she just takes whatever we dish out with no change in

behaviour
whatsoever. If I see her about to hit Lindsay and say "Don't do that or

you
can't go to Grandma's tomorrow" she will look me in the eye and continue

to
hit Lindsay anyway. We do not dare leave the two of them together
unattended for fear the baby will be hurt.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it normal? How long will it go on?
As an aside, Erika is GREAT with other babies, plays with them, shares

with
them without being asked, is very gentle, it's just her baby sister she

has
it out for. When i'ts one-on-one with Mom or Dad (no baby) Erika is sweet
as can be.

Any replies greatly appreciated.



You've gotten a lot of great advice... here's something else to consider:

1. Examine your own language. How do you talk to her about hitting? Do you
say "Don't hit!"? If so, it's time to work very hard on changing your
language. Say things positively. So, instead of "Don't hit"... "Be gentle!"

2. Echoing others... be consistent. The single *worst* thing you can do is
keep changing what you do every single time. Erika is very, very confused
right now, because she never, ever knows what is going to happen when she
hits. I think you nailed it when you walked out of the room with the baby...
it is the single most powerful thing you can do, far more effective than any
punishment, to simply demonstrate, "I deserve to be safe. The baby deserves
to be safe. We will go someplace safe." What she's got right now is a
"random reward" system. She needs to know that if she even tries to hit, she
will suddenly have *no* attention. Yeah, she'll beg and plead. But if you do
it every time, consistently, then she will learn very quickly what the
consequences will be. Ignore her begging. The smoother you can make this,
the better.

How I would do this...

a) I would sit down with Erika when she's not hitting the baby, when she's
doing okay. I would say, "I really appreciate that you're being gentle right
now. When you're gentle like this, we can all be together in the same
space."

b) The next time she attacked the baby, I would pick the baby up and leave
the room. Just that fast. I would go do something with the baby, preferably
putting baby up in a baby carrier (I would NOT fuss over the baby...this is
so not about the baby and you don't want to set your younger kid up with a
complex, either!) or down someplace safe. I would wait a couple minutes, not
talking or interacting with Erika in any way (3 minutes is about tops at
that age) and then go back to where she was and ask, "Are you ready to be
gentle now?" This is a far more effective form of time out than the
traditional way. Why? Because getting a 3-year-old to stay in time out takes
a whole lot of interaction. But keeping that kid out of where you are is
much easier. I used a locked bathroom, locking myself in. And no, having her
"out there" unsupervised wasn't an issue. Why? Because she spent the whole
time beating on the bathroom door. I knew exactly where she was...

c) When she calmed down, I would say, "We need to talk about how to be
gentle and what is safe to do when you are angry." I would go over with her
what is okay with the baby. I would talk about how being angry is okay, but
hitting people isn't. I would give her a durable, soft doll and say, "When
you feel like hitting someone, hit this." I would also say, "Why did you hit
the baby?" If she can give you an answer, you can give her a better way to
get what she's wanting. Give her a specific thing to do when she's feeling
"that way"... we described this sort of thing just like 9-1-1... how do you
hand an emotional emergency.... If she's old enough to learn
"stop-drop-and-roll then she's old enough to learn, "When you want Mommy's
attention, do X, Y and Z"

And I would keep doing those three steps consistently. It doens't take long,
usually.

I do think you need to get more sensitive to your younger baby in this...
just because she's big doesn't mean she's that big. If her sister is making
her cry, she's telling you she doesn't like it. There is no excuse for
allowing a 6 month old to be deliberately and unnecessarily hurt by another
human being in my book. You're there to protect the baby. I have friends who
are still dealing with emotional scars from abusive older siblings, and the
biggest scar of all is not the abuse, but that Mom and Dad let it happen. If
you have to keep your body between them continuously to prevent that harm
from coming to her, well, that's what you need to do. At 6 months she's most
likely not crawling or not crawling well, and she really can't do ANYTHING
to protect herself.

Jenrose


  #18  
Old November 18th 03, 04:42 PM
Dave
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Posts: n/a
Default 3-year old sibling rivalry


"Wendy" wrote in message

Two suggestions. With our first one we convinced her that we were having
the baby with the express purpose of adoring her. It's hard to hate
someone who absolute adores you. Talk up how much the baby loves her big
sister. Convince the big sister that the baby is there to be her
audience/lady-in-waiting.

Yup, we do this. Prior to Lindsay coming home we got books and videos out
of the library with titles like "My New Baby Sister" and such, many of which
were very good at preparing the older sibling for the shock of getting less
attention, etc. Erika was EXTREMELY excited about Lindsay coming home, it
was quite funny that when my wife was pregnant Erika would go around telling
people that SHE had a baby in HER tummy too.

The next suggestion is to point out to Erika that you gave HER exactly the
same treatment when Erika was a baby. In fact, when cuddling Lindsey you
might point out that it reminds you of how much you loved cuddling Erika
at that age. Then go right into the schtick about how wonderful it is
that she's such a big girl who can do such delightful things now like
(list them out: ride a trike, color with markers, go to the potty,
whatever.) The goal here is to show that your parenting of Lindsey is no
different than your parenting of Erika except that the girls need
different things from you at the moment (and will continue to have
different needs for some time.)

Yes we have gone this route as well, my wife is just incredibly patient and
positive with Erika. It is now part of Erika's standard vocabulary to blurt
out phrases like "Lindsay can't do "X" because she's a baby, but Erika can
because she's a BIG girl."

We have tried time outs and other non-violent
punishments such as keeping her from going to the park, to swimming,

etc. to
no avail... she just takes whatever we dish out with no change in

behaviour
whatsoever.


I've got a sticky situation with my second/third child like this. I'm on
the verge of seeking family counseling over a dynamic that we just can't
seem to shake. The 10 year old can't walk within arm's length of the
four year old without nudging him in some way - it's like his hands
compulsively reach out to tweak his brother. The little one yelps, I yell
at the big one to get away from his brother and the older brother feels
persecuted because I'm always yelling at him. We've sat down and talked
about this over and over again - the theme being that nudging his brother
has NOT worked out well for him - he doesn't get anything useful out of
it, just misery and more misery so why do it?

OTOH, I can't seem to stay out of it and let them nudge each other. (I've
seen the little one walk by and outright PUNCH his brother... now wherever
did he get THAT idea?) The little one is four now and the odds are
evening up a bit from when they were seven and one. I think the answer
might be in ME butting out since I can't seem to stop either of them.

Yeah I have found it very very difficult not to get angry with Erika for
hitting Lindsay, it's just so hard to watch no matter what the motivation.
I tell myself over and over and over again "she's only 3, she's only 3,
she's only 3". It is my impression that Erika hits Lindsay only when
someone is watching, it's not that she wants to hit for any particular
dislike of Lindsay, it's 100% attention. We tried making a big deal of zero
tolerance: you hit your sister, you go to your room and BOY, did that
backfire. Instant attention every time! The bigger deal we made of it the
more Erika misbehaved so, I think you're on the right track with butting
out. If you're not worried about physical harm maybe a couple of weeks of
ignoring the behavior would help, as it seems everything that kids do is
designed (by them) to get attention, good or bad. They learn early on to be
master button-pushers. I will qualify all of the above as you did and say
that obviously I haven't figured out the right thing to do but hopefully our
mutual partially-successful blunderings will help each other out.

I keep thinking there are some behavioral payoffs in their fighting that I
just can't spot. It makes no sense to me for the 10 year old to misbehave
40 times a day. He has also taken to blatent lying and seems to wallow
happily in his misery about being mistrusted as well as his feelings of
being persecuted by my constant pressure on him to not hit his brother.

A lot of kids (I am feeling old so am tempted to add the phrase "these days"
but I'm sure things haven't changed since I was a kid) just don't respond to
punishment well, they just don't get the whole "consequences" game. My
wife's brother was a "problem child" when he was younger and the parents
tried gradually increasing punishments: you can't watch your favorite TV
show, you can't go out after school with your friends, you have to stay in
your room, etc. The kid just withdrew into himself, got quieter and quieter
but never modified the bad behavior that started the whole process in the
beginning. The whole situation just made everyone feel bad. Positive
reinforcement is key, it just seems really hard at times to do it because
adults ARE so consequences-oriented. I often wonder "what the heck is that
kid thinking? How can she not figure out behavior X = consequence Y?"

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts and good luck with the hitting issue.

Dave



  #19  
Old November 18th 03, 08:17 PM
Nikki
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Posts: n/a
Default 3-year old sibling rivalry

Dave wrote:

Positive reinforcement
is key, it just seems really hard at times to do it because adults
ARE so consequences-oriented. I often wonder "what the heck is that
kid thinking? How can she not figure out behavior X = consequence
Y?"


I would not ignore it for this age group. I think for 2-5yo you have to be
very creative to make sure the consequence is *directly and instantly*
related to the behavior. I think that is why holding my sons hands worked
so well. We intercepted him the instant he reached out to hit (before he
actually even hit) and held his hands. It was his hands that were causing
the problems and it was his hands that were being quieted. That is for the
specifics of her hitting the baby. We used similar techniches for kicking
(although it took a bit longer).

For the bigger picture take a step back to see if she has un-met needs.
Physical play, time with dad, some change to our disasterous evening
routine, and a couple others stood out to us but only when we really took a
step away and looked at the *whole* picture. Look for ways to teach her to
become a 'team' or 'family' in addition to baby versus big girl.

Good luck. This has been a good thread.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)


  #20  
Old November 18th 03, 09:52 PM
Hillary Israeli
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Posts: n/a
Default 3-year old sibling rivalry

In y8cub.7501$iS6.1427@fed1read04,
Circe wrote:

*Well, I *have* a wife. Actually, I have a *new* wife--my former wife (aka au
*pair) left for New York this morning, whence she'll fly back home to South
*Africa. My new wife, Judy, started work last week with Ninian showing her
*the ropes. (That was sort of interesting, since Judy's English is a bit
*weak--she speaks mainly Spanish--and Ninian has no Spanish at all, but it
*turned out fine.) Anyway, I don't know what I'd do without my serial wives
*g!

Hee hee. I never thought of the girls in quite those terms before! I'm
curious, did you know about Judy's language difficulties before she showed
up?? Or had she "hidden" them from you? I'm just wondering because I know
that has been one of my biggest issues with having an au pair - ensuring
that she speaks excellent English, because I just personally couldn't deal
with someone who didn't. I've managed by making sure to choose people from
countries which educate their citizens in English. Back when we were still
interviewing people from other countries like Czech Republic or whatever,
these girls would pretend to speak English but you'd catch them by asking
detailed questions that their canned answers didn't make sense for... it
was very annoying.

Good luck with Judy and the transition, though , and here's hoping
Ninian has a safe trip.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large
 




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